Emergency Rule Lifted

[Merangue]

Boost international confidence by locking up the yellow thug terrorists and throwing away the keys. I neither support yellow or red but what is going on in this country is disgusting. The red supporters are arrested within days (and rightly so) and are still been held in prisons and army bases while the yellow leaders are told to leisurely take a stroll to the nearest cop shop, where they are charged with some petty stuff that we know will never carry any custodial sentence. If Abhisit is to gain any sort of respect internationally he should have clamped down on all these idiots a long time ago, unfortunately, he never will and we all know why, so does the rest of the world. One big joke.

Good post.

If you are going to have reconciliation and are genuinely trying to make things fair you either clamp down on both sides or none.

This whole thing makes the present powers that be look utterly partisan to an outsider who spends even 5 minutes reading up about what has been going on for the last few years.

[samgrowth]

Boost international confidence by locking up the yellow thug terrorists and throwing away the keys. I neither support yellow or red but what is going on in this country is disgusting. The red supporters are arrested within days (and rightly so) and are still been held in prisons and army bases while the yellow leaders are told to leisurely take a stroll to the nearest cop shop, where they are charged with some petty stuff that we know will never carry any custodial sentence. If Abhisit is to gain any sort of respect internationally he should have clamped down on all these idiots a long time ago, unfortunately, he never will and we all know why, so does the rest of the world. One big joke.

Good post.

If you are going to have reconciliation and are genuinely trying to make things fair you either clamp down on both sides or none.

This whole thing makes the present powers that be look utterly partisan to an outsider who spends even 5 minutes reading up about what has been going on for the last few years.

Someone in TV suggested that there are kangaroo court in Africa, but not Thailand. Is this a fact?

[Dap]

Does this mean that I can now walk with 4 Nana bar girls without being arrested.

Go for it mate. 4 or 24 ... only problem you'll have is the women. Cell phones can be much more dangerous than the presence of troops.

[Dap]

Does this mean that I can now walk with 4 Nana bar girls without being arrested.

Go for it mate. 4 or 24 ... only problem you'll have is the women. Cell phones can be much more dangerous than the presence of troops.

[kurtgruen]

Funny.

Most of my experience with machine guns comes from Germany and France.

troop presence in the streets is EXPECTED in Paris and other big urban euro cities.

This caused from people like the Red Brigades, Bader Mienhoff and more recently

the Algerian gas cannister bombers of '95, who missed ME by under 15 minutes...

You can imagine this doesn't make me even slightly sympathetic to Jakrapob's new direction.

Zealot groups insisting on a change of government you see,

since the average person doesn't want to join their cause they target them,

or don't care if they are collateral damage. Just pawns for the greater cause.

Jakrapob seems headed down that path...

Euro Airports, train stations, security installations and government protection duty etc.

Plenty of automatic asault weapons on the streets of Europe.

And having been near 2 bombings by pure bad luck,

I am reassured by the soldiers not the other way round; thank you very much.

I did get to fire a M-60 (a beast) and an Unzi at the range once... once is all you need.

So I KNOW what this suckers can do.

So no, it isn't unusual to see soldiers with automatic weapons in many countries.

And with the drug and human smuggling up north it's not surprising the check points are well armed.

So this is news?

Oh, yes the purported yellows speak out against lies and inuendo in TV

and so that means they have taken over?

Or does that ONLY mean you would be happy if they were silenced...?

Oh yes, Red shirts don't seem to like dissenting opinions to their own.

Ask the corpse of the Chaing mai radio directors father,

killed because HIS SON spoke out publicly.

Well some people here clearly see a need to counter a blatant propaganda machine effort.

Silence is golden in children, but not adults. If you believe the machine, but aren't part of it,

well tough luck, silence is NOT an option. Defend your points with logic,

and not shouting down of others positions. A la PTP in this weeks legislative sessions.

Yes, now that you mention it, I remember the Police with their automatic rifles and bullet proof vest all over Nuernberg International Airport, in 1977. (I think it had to do with the Andreas Bader/Ulrike Meinhof Group that time). It was a wierd feeling at the time, but not something that comes to mind, when I think about my honeymoon in Europe. It didn't really leave that much of a lasting impression and sure wouldn't stop me from returning to Europe. Just like the present situation won't stop many people from returning to Thailand, because most people probalby weren't even aware of it and the ones that were, probably don't think that is was a big deal.

I'm glad the State of Emergency Decree got cancelled and I'm glad that we have Police and Military out there, to protect the Public, the Government and Infrastructure, so that we can all feel a little bit safer. I certainly wouldn't want some bus burned up in front of my house or having some hijacked Propane truck parked next to my family. I also wouldn't appreciate some violent mob protesting in my neighborhood. So lets give the cops and the military some slack here and let them do their job, guys ;-)

[webfact]

FM Kasit meets Clinton, PM hosts Jackson

By Supalak Ganjanakhundee,

Piyanart Srivalo

The Nation

Published on April 25, 2009

FM Kasit meets Clinton, PM hosts Jackson

Clinton hoped the government would be able to restore stability soon and Thai democracy would grow properly, he said.

Kasit briefed Clinton on the political situation in Thailand, telling her the government was pursuing national reconciliation and would amend the 2007 Constitution to make it more democratic.

"Mrs Clinton has expressed her confidence in what Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva is doing and where he is leading Thai society," Kasit told reporters in a telephone conference from Washington.

Kasit met Clinton during his official visit to Washington this week to boost bilateral ties. They also discussed regional issues, including Burma and the relations between Thailand and Cambodia.

Kasit urged the US to review economic sanctions against the Burmese junta, since they hurt the Thai economy, notably the jewellery industry, which imports stones from Burma.

The movements of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra were not discussed, Kasit said, since US Ambassador to Thailand Eric John might already have reported the situation in the Kingdom to Washington.

Meanwhile in Bangkok, visiting American human-rights activist Jesse Jackson voiced support for the government's efforts towards national conciliation and political reform, Abhisit said.

Jackson compared Abhisit with US President Barack Obama for international sophistication and wide vision and urged reform in Thailand be as inclusive as possible.

Abhisit briefed Jackson on his goal of restoring international creditability, solving the economic crisis and ending political conflict within a year.

He said the key to success was the role of the legislative body and that the government would be able to achieve its goals if MPs fully cooperated.

[Koo82]

Does this mean that I can now walk with 4 Nana bar girls without being arrested.

When they have SOE, you still can walk in a group of 4 . The reds can protest in groups of 4. One group finishes and another group can take turn.

[Plus]

If you are going to have reconciliation and are genuinely trying to make things fair you either clamp down on both sides or none.

For any meaningful reconciliation you need people to agree on some common things. For any long lasting effect you should agree on respecting the law first and foremost. To follow the law means punishing people according to their crimes, not your feelings of "fair" on the spur of the moment.

Your call to clamp down on yellows has nothing to do with either reconciliation or following laws, or fairness, for that matter, you just hate yellows and think they should be destroyed.

Comlpeltely destroying both sides is not reconciliation, it's annihilation. Yes, it will all look equal then. Equally destroyed, with lots of other things ruined in the process, too, like the law or sense of right and wrong.

That's Reconciliation TM - trademarked and copyrighted, Thai style, or rather red style.

>>>

Practically, first step towards reconciliation means realising that yellows were right - people's enemies are not Prem and bureaucrats, people's enemies are politicians, regardless of your personal color.

[jayboy]

Practically, first step towards reconciliation means realising that yellows were right

And that really sums it up doesn't it?

[Merangue]

If you are going to have reconciliation and are genuinely trying to make things fair you either clamp down on both sides or none.

For any meaningful reconciliation you need people to agree on some common things. For any long lasting effect you should agree on respecting the law first and foremost. To follow the law means punishing people according to their crimes, not your feelings of "fair" on the spur of the moment.

Your call to clamp down on yellows has nothing to do with either reconciliation or following laws, or fairness, for that matter, you just hate yellows and think they should be destroyed.

Comlpeltely destroying both sides is not reconciliation, it's annihilation. Yes, it will all look equal then. Equally destroyed, with lots of other things ruined in the process, too, like the law or sense of right and wrong.

That's Reconciliation TM - trademarked and copyrighted, Thai style, or rather red style.

>>>

Practically, first step towards reconciliation means realising that yellows were right - people's enemies are not Prem and bureaucrats, people's enemies are politicians, regardless of your personal color.

Utter balls.

Sorry mate but you do not know me or my politics. All you seem to see is a world hidden behind yellow tinted glasses. Take of those lenses and you MIGHT see clearer.

First step towards reconciliation is to recognise both sides have issues that need dealing with and that just because a person has not been educated to a high standard, does not entitle you to belittle their rights in a democratic society.

It is not a case of agreeing, it is a case of understanding that other people have a right to think for themselves nd make their own decisions in life. If that means that more people disagree with you then fine you can work...... within the law..... to try to change their minds. It does not include Military strength, changing laws, removing constitutions, propoganda, strong arming the poor, closing down airports, roting in the streets or any of the other things both sides have been guilty of.

Until BOTH sides and any other groups on the fringes or in the background, admit they are not perfect and do not have all the answers, Thailand's political system will continue to be a laughing stock.

Now i do not intend to get into an arguement with you as you are obviously so partisan, that nothing of any sense, will ever enter your ears without that yellow filter changing it.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Merangue

[animatic]

Practically, first step towards reconciliation means realising that yellows were right

And that really sums it up doesn't it?

Well I would put it more as :

Realizing that not all Yellows are wrong and not all reds are right.

Both sides have wrong and right ideas, but have Thailands better interests

as a basis for their goals.

Problem is some Red leaders have pushed their side to extremes,

and to some extent pushed the Yellows to extremes they never intended.

We know the main motivating force there.

Bottom line; the now silent Thaksin has pushed the country apart like no other

and that is a pathetically sad legacy for any man. This bruehahah is not ending

until Thaksin has lost his pile, and the power it holds,

and tried his last Hail Mary pass that hits the end zone un-caught

and he slinks off to hide. Till then more B.S.

His minions have a vested interest in NOT allowing Reds

to see any side but THEIR extreme potential positions.

All countries are run by some sort of elite, some are more benign than others,

the most 'properly functioning' socialist or communist co-op always had

'some more forceful equals' keeping things going.

Some folks are just not born to lead, and so the void gets filled by the motivated.

And the same goes for most any working democracy 'IN PRACTICE',

not absolutist theories from Uni courses. Real politique!

This doesn't say that the dynamic of the relationship isn't in flux,

at varying speeds, at varying times, it is. One thing that HAS been

clear through out history is that ABRUPT and RADICAL changes in that dynamic

hurt more people harder and longer than gradual change to more equitable systems.

But zealots want what they want, when the want it,

and make copious mental justifications as to their

means, methods and morals when going after what they want.

Edited April 26, 2009 by animatic

[321niti123]

The "state of emergency" decree does nothing, its supposed to stop people from protesting over 5 people, but nothing changes, the exact oposite happened, there was more violence [look at sondhi].

Its a good thing they removed the decree cuz it doesnt help anyways.

[Plus]

Practically, first step towards reconciliation means realising that yellows were right

And that really sums it up doesn't it?

Yes it does.

There will be no reconciliation until you accept "right" for what it is and not for its color.

That's the first stumbling block - you can't accept that anything connected with yellow is right. Well, like it or not, but nothing will happen unitl you grow out of that kindergarten sandbox mentality.

It is not a case of agreeing, it is a case of understanding that other people have a right to think for themselves nd make their own decisions in life.

NO, reconciliation means agreeing on something together, not simply understanding the other side. Wolves might understand sheep and sheep might understand wolves, but no matter how deep this understanding is - they are not going to live in peace.

Looking at current Thai politics - there will be no reconciliation, period. The red leaders have gone overboard with their latest revolution and they have absolutely no intention to live in peace with Democrats.

Red supporters, the grassroots, should really start thinking for themselves and formulate their own agenda, they should separate themselves from Thaksin and greedy, self-serving politicians. Then we can start talking about healing the rift in society at large.

[jayboy]

Practically, first step towards reconciliation means realising that yellows were right

And that really sums it up doesn't it?

Yes it does.

There will be no reconciliation until you accept "right" for what it is and not for its color.

That's the first stumbling block - you can't accept that anything connected with yellow is right. Well, like it or not, but nothing will happen unitl you grow out of that kindergarten sandbox mentality.

It is not a case of agreeing, it is a case of understanding that other people have a right to think for themselves nd make their own decisions in life.

NO, reconciliation means agreeing on something together, not simply understanding the other side. Wolves might understand sheep and sheep might understand wolves, but no matter how deep this understanding is - they are not going to live in peace.

Looking at current Thai politics - there will be no reconciliation, period. The red leaders have gone overboard with their latest revolution and they have absolutely no intention to live in peace with Democrats.

Red supporters, the grassroots, should really start thinking for themselves and formulate their own agenda, they should separate themselves from Thaksin and greedy, self-serving politicians. Then we can start talking about healing the rift in society at large.

Hold on, I think there was much in the grassroots yellow movement that was not only admirable but arguably essential in moving the country forward from the logjam it found itself in.One of the flaws in the more thoughtful wing (can we argue whether there is such a thing another time perhaps!) of the red movement is its failure to appreciate the heart felt disgust at old style politics.

What I'm querying is your assumption that we should accept the "yellows were right" in a hook,line and sinker sense.It's another manifestation of the zero sum approach that plagues the extreme wings of Thai politics.Compromise will need to be found and contrary to a -dare I say it - kindergarten sandbox mentality, it will involve both sides accepting some things they don't particularly like.To be frank I can't really see the red leadership is a more repulsive crew of self serving villains than their odious PAD counterparts, but following your train of thought I suppose if the yellow rank and file could detach themselves from their leadership that would be helpful.Long jail sentences in an ideal world would be a possible catalyst, but let's face it whatever Abhisit says to the FT etc we all know these yellow gruppenfuhrer are untouchable.

[hammered]

Hold on, I think there was much in the grassroots yellow movement that was not only admirable but arguably essential in moving the country forward from the logjam it found itself in.One of the flaws in the more thoughtful wing (can we argue whether there is such a thing another time perhaps!) of the red movement is its failure to appreciate the heart felt disgust at old style politics.

What I'm querying is your assumption that we should accept the "yellows were right" in a hook,line and sinker sense.It's another manifestation of the zero sum approach that plagues the extreme wings of Thai politics.Compromise will need to be found and contrary to a -dare I say it - kindergarten sandbox mentality, it will involve both sides accepting some things they don't particularly like.To be frank I can't really see the red leadership is a more repulsive crew of self serving villains than their odious PAD counterparts, but following your train of thought I suppose if the yellow rank and file could detach themselves from their leadership that would be helpful.Long jail sentences in an ideal world would be a possible catalyst, but let's face it whatever Abhisit says to the FT etc we all know these yellow gruppenfuhrer are untouchable.

On a base level the red demand for elections to be respected and no more coups or power group interference is commendable as is the yellow demand on a base level for checks and balances, end to vote buying and less/no corruption. In fact these are not only not mutually exclusive but when combined are quite developed democracy.

Quite weird how people who are both making reasonable demands and ones that should go hand in glove end up in movements that apparently despise each other and with their own gurus and leaders and almost faith like belief in their side being right. If one were to be cynical one would argue that those manipulating both sides had little interest in democracy beyond exploiting peoples feel for it to their own ends. In fact by just trying to champion movements that select a lump rather than awhole of democracy whoever wins if a red or yellow win is till possible will just create some kind of poison vine faux democracy for their won power ends. The demise of red and yellow leaders or at least their own sympathisers seeing them for what they are can only be a good thing for development of democracy. Even now if there is the odd good leader they need to go as the personality and hatred fueled cults are leading nowhere very quickly and ideas are far more important than egocentric leaders.

[LawnGnome]

Quite weird how people who are both making reasonable demands and ones that should go hand in glove end up in movements that apparently despise each other and with their own gurus and leaders and almost faith like belief in their side being right. If one were to be cynical one would argue that those manipulating both sides had little interest in democracy beyond exploiting peoples feel for it to their own ends. In fact by just trying to champion movements that select a lump rather than awhole of democracy whoever wins if a red or yellow win is till possible will just create some kind of poison vine faux democracy for their won power ends. The demise of red and yellow leaders or at least their own sympathisers seeing them for what they are can only be a good thing for development of democracy. Even now if there is the odd good leader they need to go as the personality and hatred fueled cults are leading nowhere very quickly and ideas are far more important than egocentric leaders.

That is not cynical Hammered. That is exactly correct.

[Merangue]

Hold on, I think there was much in the grassroots yellow movement that was not only admirable but arguably essential in moving the country forward from the logjam it found itself in.One of the flaws in the more thoughtful wing (can we argue whether there is such a thing another time perhaps!) of the red movement is its failure to appreciate the heart felt disgust at old style politics.

What I'm querying is your assumption that we should accept the "yellows were right" in a hook,line and sinker sense.It's another manifestation of the zero sum approach that plagues the extreme wings of Thai politics.Compromise will need to be found and contrary to a -dare I say it - kindergarten sandbox mentality, it will involve both sides accepting some things they don't particularly like.To be frank I can't really see the red leadership is a more repulsive crew of self serving villains than their odious PAD counterparts, but following your train of thought I suppose if the yellow rank and file could detach themselves from their leadership that would be helpful.Long jail sentences in an ideal world would be a possible catalyst, but let's face it whatever Abhisit says to the FT etc we all know these yellow gruppenfuhrer are untouchable.

On a base level the red demand for elections to be respected and no more coups or power group interference is commendable as is the yellow demand on a base level for checks and balances, end to vote buying and less/no corruption. In fact these are not only not mutually exclusive but when combined are quite developed democracy.

Quite weird how people who are both making reasonable demands and ones that should go hand in glove end up in movements that apparently despise each other and with their own gurus and leaders and almost faith like belief in their side being right. If one were to be cynical one would argue that those manipulating both sides had little interest in democracy beyond exploiting peoples feel for it to their own ends. In fact by just trying to champion movements that select a lump rather than awhole of democracy whoever wins if a red or yellow win is till possible will just create some kind of poison vine faux democracy for their won power ends. The demise of red and yellow leaders or at least their own sympathisers seeing them for what they are can only be a good thing for development of democracy. Even now if there is the odd good leader they need to go as the personality and hatred fueled cults are leading nowhere very quickly and ideas are far more important than egocentric leaders.

Sums it up fairly well.