Ti/rai Paperwork, Taxes

[bina]

i need some info:

hubby is buying 'ti'. this is essentially land for building on or for agriculture but not rice, true? what kind of paperwork goes with that? ( i need the thai and the english equivalent).

if the land is in his name, if he were to die, the one year rule applies, or do we need something in writing (we dont live in thailand so family will be working with land (skip all the 'dont invest wht u cant lose' stuff, i know, and anyway have nothing to lose) /

also, i suspect that i need to be on his tabian baan or something similar, - which is actually his mother's house? how do i do that? or am i confusing issues?

will he (or his mother) have to pay taxes on this land per year and if so how is that recorded? he has no land in his name yet (although land was parcelled out verbally by his mother but transferring chanote seems to be too complicated at this time, involving someone to check out and mark boundries, etc. )

its just that i've noticed that for women married to thai men, paying taxes /owning land has been mentioned when eventually applying for certain types of visas . however, we live overseas so not sure how is all works out.

i will be there in two weeks so want some info as afterwards i will have no internet access to check things out with. yes i know get a lawyer, but first want info. (we are outside just south of korat).

edit: found a site with the chanote etc explanations, from a few years ago, but still need to know other info

bina

israel

[kamalabob2]

Those all are valid questions and concerns. It would be well worth your money to meet in person with an attorney who is a native English speaker (assuming you are native English speaking). One of the sponsors of Thai Visa has a law office in Korat. The one question I am certain of is that ANNUAL land taxes are paid, they are nominal and you do get a written receipt. Land actually seems to have zones in Thailand, with the annual tax on farm land very cheap and even in a small town for residential land it is less than 26 baht a rai. Farm land annual property tax is perhaps ten baht or less per year. There is a much different tax on land sales, depending on how long the person owned the land, if they have more than seven plots for sales, etc... These are better questions for a qualified attorney. The "land office" can be an interesting experience for foreigners and SOME Thai people are fearful of some staff at this office. The staff where you pay your annual land tax are thrilled to see you as they do not have to mail out a notice if you go see them first and pay a few years land tax. It is NOT the same office as the land office.

Getting the land title changed to a "better grade' can be done very cheap if you have the time to wait in a rotation for land office staff to show up and perform accurate measurements. But this being Thailand, there is a "opportunity" to pay for "quick service". In my opinion it is worth the time (or speed up money) to have the land papers upgraded and cleared of any liens. The time and money spent this year with an excellent attorney will save you and the Thai family significant money and potential problems in the years to come.

The simple process to obtain a free "yellow house book" has been pinned on the Thai Visa Forum. Different Government offices have different interpretations of the rules, but it is NOT difficult. Look under the Housing, real estate pinned topics.

Bring ORIGINAL and good copies of all your "papers", including marriage, and the "proof of residence" which for US citizens you pay to get an embassy or consulate in Thailand. That "proof of residence" paper will list ANY address you want to put on the piece of paper, but that stamped piece of paper is crucial. I seem to recall four photographs, but look at the pinned topic for all the details. Your Thai citizen husband would be listed in a "Blue House Book", but you are in the "Yellow House Book". It does not matter who owns the house, it is a book with your legal address.

In my opinion, nothing is too "complicated" in Thailand, it justs takes a "step by step" approach to reach a goal. Money for an excellent attorney rather than a corrupt official (or less for a corrupt official) can speed any issue that to many Thai people "appear complicated". Good luck and have fun paying for five years land tax for a very small amount.

[chiangmaibruce]

if the land is in his name, if he were to die, the one year rule applies, or do we need something in writing (we dont live in thailand so family will be working with land (skip all the 'dont invest wht u cant lose' stuff, i know, and anyway have nothing to lose) /

Does your husband have a valid Thai Will in which you are named the sole beneficiary of the land in question? If yes then the one year rule will be applicable. If not, then the asset will be distributed as per a formula under Thai law (do a google search on "making a thai will" and you will soon come across the formula)

[bina]

thanx, yes i read up siam and isaan lawyer sites from here about the chanotes and other types of landownership; no he doesnt have a will, but neither do i (kibbutzniks dont have property, or other things apart from clothing furniture and stuff to give to our kids . my husband, if he hasnt yet gotten his citizenship here will have to leave if i die first. he doesnt have residency at the kibbutz only in israel and his residency is dependent on being married to me (like in thailand), nor does he have membership at the kibbutz, so he would have to go back home to thailand.

and a will for me? he's thai. these things arent mentioned. but his family would look after me. im not exactly the farang money cow from the very beginning so they like me for what i am. but i will mention the idea and see if we can get something written up though at the moment i am not even living there.

I didnt understand exactly the yellow tabian baan thing. i did read through the other threads about tabian baans and stuff but not really sure how and what to do... i'm american but not a resident. i am also israeli and a resident/citizen; anon is a resident (temporary) in israel but on his mother's tabian baan. so what address am i supposed to put down? anon's mother's address? get a letter from the israelil embassy? and if i am living overseas, is that tabian baan yellow even neccessary or only for when and if i move to thailand? it seems that the rules are somewhat different for thai male/foreign female so wanted to know what to expect.

i have three weeks to do stuff, not sure if being on a yellow tabian baan is even worth doing; couldnt understand from other thaivisa posts if it is neccessary or not; also how long , how much, and what papers (as i would have to bring with me-- our thai marriage registration, what else is needed? he's in korat for two months, im there for three weeks, so we are trying to get as much paperwork for different things done as possible since next time round for thailand will be only in about two years or so, unless i win a lottery from the kibbutz.

would it be horrible to go to the tax office? or would that be stirring up a hornet's nest?

i thought of going to the korat lawyers, not sure about price as he doesnt list in his site; i will post him/them i guess.

thanx anyway...

bina

israel

[donx]

I'm no expert, but what I understand from reading various posts is that unless you are living in Thailand, there isn't really any reason for you to be put in a yellow tabian baan. Farang get their names in them so that they can get driver's licenses and such.

I live in the US and visit Thailand for one month about every other year. I'm not in a yellow tabian baan, though my wife is listed in her mother's blue tabian baan. We even haven't added our three children to the blue tabian baan which we could do if we so desired. All three of my children do have Thai and US birth certificates and passports, so we don't see a need to put them in a tabian baan. Because of this they do not have Thai ID cards. I was hoping that by doing this I would prevent my son from having to worry about Thai military service. Unfortunately, when I was at the Thai embassy earlier this month I was told that he would have to return when he turns 17 to determine his fate. I won't go into details here since this is already somewhat off topic.

So unless you plan on living for any length of time in Thailand, I see no reason for you to put your name in a tabian baan.

[kamalabob2]

It will not be horrible to go and pay land taxes at the office that collect land taxes in Thailand. Do not give any government official ANY reason to "complicate" things for your in-laws, when you can keep things "straight" for a mere pittance. The analogy is a Thai person who does not get a Thai drivers license, does not get the mandatory liability insurance on a motorbike and keeps paying "fines" several times a month from Police just checking for proof of insurance and to see if the person has a valid Thai drivers license. Both items are dirt cheap, even for a village Thai person to do correct in the beginning, instead of being forced to pay "fines" at every police stop.

If you do not wish to stay a long time in Thailand, do not wish to ever have a building permit to construct a home, do not wish to ever have a utility in YOUR name, then you might have zero need for a free Yellow Tabian Baan. If you decide there is a benefit to you and your husband for you to be listed in a yellow Tabian Baan, then his Mother's home address is the address you would list. If you ever move to a different address in Thailand it is simple and free to get a new yellow house book if the new address is in a different Amphur. I moved from a village address to a town address at no cost and nominal time at the government offices. Far shorter time to obtain a yellow house book than the once a year visit to Thai Immigration in Bangkok. The type of visa you use to enter Thailand MIGHT help determine if you are qualified to be listed in a yellow Tabian Baan. Many Expats who live in Thailand all or most of each year obtain the Yellow Tabian Baan to save the expense and hassle of obtaining a proof of residence from Immigration or respective Embassy/consulate to conduct "everyday business" in Thailand such as signing up for utilities, building permits, renewing a drivers license, etc..

Perhaps you can contact the lawyers in Korat or get a price quote for your situation via e-mail from a respected American attorney at

http://www.usfamilyvisa.com/

A valid will for you in Thai and English along with a valid will in Thai and English for your husband is surprising affordable in Thailand from a trustworthy, experienced American attorney.

Do you have both an American Passport AND a passport from Israel? If you need the letter of residence, I suspect it will need to be from the embassy or consulate of the Nation which passport you use to enter and depart Thailand. Really paying land taxes for several years on farm land near Korat will cost less than a meal at one of the better restaurants in Korat.

[bina]

kamala,

thank you for a very succinct post; answered most questions. his parents pay the yearly land taxes but wasnt sure how husband will do that if there is land in his name and he is living here (in israel)- so i guess we will go in and find out.

we will skip the yellow tabain baan for the moment

entering on israeli passport (i have dual) since i leave here on same; american one has outdated itself a month ago adn due to holidays here, can only renew on my return to home (dont want to send in mail and have it come back while im away)...

will have to do a will i guess, also one for here (israel) since as i am a kibbutznik, i have to go by both israeli law and the regulations/legalities of the kibbutz system, also legally binding concerning land/assets ownership. (too complicated ).

at present moment we are not moving back so visas are irrelevant. (i go in on visa exemption for 30 days). my thinking is for later in life and retirement visa etc will not be applicable for me as kibbutz gets no salary so no monthly amounts for me to put in bank ; so considering all otehr options-- also seeing as he is the thai; at the moment i prefer just to have land in his name (worst come to worse, it would stay with his family if we ever split up; i like them and they are good people, and i wont starve to death by losing the land) so that if need be, getting some kind of visa for me , he would have some assets in his name as he , i think, is considered at the moment by the thai visa rules as the 'main supporter' (thai male/foreigner female).

will definately get a hold of lawyer for advice for the land stuff however; dont want his family to get screwed over either...

again, thank you for clarifying the tabian baan thing and other advice.

bina

israel

[Goinghomesoon]

Hi Bina

My hubs was on his parents blue tabiaan baan.

Parents subdivided their land and each child got a portion.

Hubs then got new blue tabiaan baan in the address of his piece of land. He just had to ask at the Amphur & provide land docs & ID card.

Chanote is ready to collect at the land office, hubs has to go in to pick it up and pay the land tax which they said was only a couple of hundred baht as it is farming land and being transferred from his parents, apparently familial transfers get some sort of discount.

We haven't bothered with a will here in Thailand. S'pose we should think about it, even though hubby has no assets here except this little land block in the middle of nowhere with no electricity..... Not sure about you but I don't think I would ever live permanently in hubby's village if he was no longer around. I wouldn't have a problem with his land reverting to his parents and/or siblings...

[bina]

:D

i think thats what will happen here with the mother's parcel she is giving to anon. so will try to do that also (maybe we should just move in to the amphur office for a week, save benzine and ware and tare on the pickup) .

the reality is that if i were to move to thailand, i stop being a member of the kibbutz and therefore would have no where to live if i would have to go back... (well, a good friend's house for temp. purposes ), but yeah, i too have no prob that it goes to family however, sometimes legal documents of ownership and wills are good to have to show relationship connections, since neither he nor i have assets. except for the two dogs i.e. and we dont have children (mine are from a former). they show some kind of permanence in relationship.

seems that i will indeed have to pop in to issan lawyers or similar to orgnize as much as possible, or make a P.O.A. for his brother afterwards to facilitate finishing beauracracy. thanx to the forum i have a much better idea now of land stuff, also for organizing anon's folks. making a sort of booklet with all info to be prepared...

now have to figure out the paying taxes part so that if and when, anon can prove that he has been paying taxes.

also, just realized, he has to go to the thai labour office before he comes back to israel or they(thai ) dont let him on the flight, i think its a form that is to show that he pays taxes here (automatically comes off his salary here in israel) so he isnt paying dual taxes on income either.

these bannork thai guys -- thank god i have a beaurocratic brain.

now have to sort out the land office people to come out and actually measure mom's land to upgrade since i realized that they have some land not on chanote but the one step before chanote land just have had no one to deal with and push the paperwork part and the measuring posts... and some land is rai for rice only.......