Chamlong Claims Abhisit Govt Not In Actual Control

[ThNiner]

Koo you are wasting your time among self-righteous, all-knowing persons. Everyone here who hates Thaksin is right and anyone who says even a single word for him is evil (remember WMD in Iraq?)

Abhisit government is a puppet which is controlled by PAD. You may not believe it so, but after few months/years when you will see that PAD will try to control Thailand and ruin it more then you will understand.

Thaksin maybe corrupt but he was lesser of an evil than any other political parties in Thailand.

If you dont agree with me, remember 1997 crises and recall who was in power and who destroyed Thai economy (democrats, just in case if someone cant recall).

Go ahead and call me names, but thats what my views are.

You wanna check your facts there. Gen Chavlits NAP led government were in power at the important time in 1997. The Dems came to power after his mishandling of the situation forced a resignation.

On a less fatcual front I think you'll find that the PAD actually have little control of the government or of the powerful and influential forces in Thailand. Sondhi has been quite critical of government, military coupists and bureacracy. The yellows like many of the reds have been to some extent used by others in their power games imho. To date though only the yellows have worked this out and as such remain an interesting wild cardin developments. imho

And certain Mr. T was in that Chavalit's gov't as well. If my memory serves me right, the fugitive T. served as a deputy PM at the time. The role, later revealed by another despicable character named Snoh Tientong, enabled the fugitive to make money in the maginutde of hundred billion Bath with inside knowledge of when the Baht would be floated. Snoh is currently the head of Pracharach party.

Snoh Tientong

Edited April 27, 2009 by ThNiner

[faranginexile]

Is it worth the efforts? Bringing Thailand to be a joke just to knock one man?

Yes. Yes, it is.

[MikeWill]

Ricardo,

Glad you're still keen on this "criminal" thing.

How did he become "criminal"? His wife bought a piece of land. Court said no fault what so ever. Land is still hers. Seller has no fault as well. He became criminal because he was PM and was her husband at the same time.

Corruption is a very well chosen word. If there were corruption, why would both seller and buyer not be charged? Why is the land still hers?

The more people talk about this case, the more laugh people in other countries have for Thailand. In their countries, they don't have this kind of "criminal".

What people are doing, including supporting the yellows to block 2 airports, is just to stop Khun T from coming back to be PM again.

Is it worth the efforts? Bringing Thailand to be a joke just to knock one man?

This is such a lie. The land has already been returned to that gov't agency that sold it to her. The land was returned because the sale was judged as a void by the court. The money was given back to Potjaman. The only reason that she wasn't found guilty was because that particular law only applied to politicians. It's the law that prohibits conflicts of interest in politics.

Potjaman of course has been found guilty in another corruption case.

Potjaman Guilty of Tax Fraud

Koo82,

While Thaksin is in the self-exile, you are in the state of the self imposed denial.

Your repeated foolish remarks and imprudent arguments are simply boring.

[LawnGnome]

Koo82,

While Thaksin is in the self-exile, you are in the state of the self imposed denial.

Your repeated foolish remarks and imprudent arguments are simply boring.

Seconded.

[samgrowth]

Why don't we bring Mr. Chuan back.

Afterall, I think he would be a better PM than Chamlong.

[LawnGnome]

Why don't we bring Mr. Chuan back.

Afterall, I think he would be a better PM than Chamlong.

I'd say we already have a good PM, best we could hope for considering the circumstances.

[HagenvonTronje]

did some bother here to read that interview and wanna talk about it?

actually that interview isn't so much about Abhisit. more only about Chamlong himself and his strange, obscure political ideas and the vision of the Palang Dharma Party in a new outfit. a party that should command the majority of MP and be the leader of the government,everything else is useless (chamlong says).

he talks about Sondhi (The Nation makes a typo and call him Sonthi)

than a little bit commie bashing (didn't chamlong know that there have been a couple of ex-commies founding member of the TRT? a party he strong supported for a couple of years)

and only at the end, the last two sentences, he talks about abhisit.

and he drops a little bomb. because Chamlong declares that the Abhisit Government is corrupt they are paid puppets of the liquor companies.

[chrislarsson]

Thaksin was corrupt. If you can not acknowledge that then you really need to go back and read old newspaper clippings Koo. And just because others are also corrupt does not mean that his corruption should be excused.

I read them, but I still cannot know how he can be accused of corruption. I only see that he is very rich and powerful. After all those years, people still cannot prove if Khun Thaksin is corrupt or not. Only that land case is known with 5/4 result.

T is nothing if not crafty. So was Al Capone (notorious Chicago mob boss in the mid-20th century). The US Feds knew to try and bust Capone on a more serious charge would be difficult due to reams of hard-to-get and hidden evidence. So the FBI busted him on tax evasion, which was comparatively smaller charge - but it was at least enough to get a fair trial and put the mobster behind bars.

Simlarly with T. The list of his illegal activities is long, but to legally bust him in the courts, would entail a whole heck of a lot of hidden documents and reluctant (and soon to be snuffed out) witnesses. That's why the Thai gov't wisely chose the easier smaller cases first, such as his ex-wife's shady land deal. Perhaps later, the gov't will have the power, evidence and witnesses to bust Thaksin on the more serious charges: MEGA TAX EVASION, LYING ON ASSETS DECLARATIONS, BEING DIRECTLY IN CHARGE WHEN NEARLY A HUNDRED MUSLIM YOUNG MEN WERE KILLED AT TAK BAI, BEING IN CHARGE DURING THE EXTRA-JUDICIAL WAR ON DRUGS WHEREIN HUNDREDS OF INNOCENT THAIS DIED, TREASON, .....and so on.

Could you tell me the details and crimes about the MEGA TAX EVASION? Why is this a difficult case to prove?

[meelousee]

"Chalerm said" - anyone actually believes anything Chalerm says?

Touche. And straight to the point.

And given the history of lies and bogus claims, one after another, by the red shirt people, do they still really have any creidibility left?

Does anyone believe anything any politician says?

[Plus]

They don't want to revolutionise it, but they just want to do better out of it.

No they don't.

Show me a single point on their agenda that would lead to betterment of the system as opposed to making life easier for politicians.

They've just been elinsted in someone else's war and told to repeat someone else's arguments.

I'm actually waiting for them to start making sense. That day hasn't come yet, though it has been promised ages ago by red promoters on this forum.

By 'they', I was referring to the bog-standard peasant (not a red militant). The average Joe in the fields does not want a revolution. He just wants to do a bit better in life - preferably this one, not the next one.

Usually he's offered no improvements by any political party, (So THB 500 is the next best thing). I don't blame these people for feeling cynical about the townies, and then selling out their vote.

ps I agree about Prem, I don't think he is calling the shots because no person in their mid eighties is in a fit state to do so. Eg, Deng Xiao Ping, Castro, Chairman Mao. They were all worn out by that time in life.

I also meant bog-standard peasant - they've been enlisted in someone else's war.

Every party offers populist schemes to them now, they are not fighting for that. I hope you don't think they took to the streets because PPP somehow offered them better policies last year than Democrats. They have no idea why they took to the streets, they can't give you (us) a single reason. They just parrot irrelevant stuff they've been made to feel strongly about.

>>

Thaksin was appointed to the Cabinet after baht devaluation.

Chavalit had to take responsibility for handling attacks on baht and depleting country's reserves. True, it wasn't his fault that the country was in a weakened position but that's not an excuse to secretly bankrupting the government and then dumping it on unsuspecting public.

[meelousee]

"Chalerm said" - anyone actually believes anything Chalerm says?

Touche. And straight to the point.

And given the history of lies and bogus claims, one after another, by the red shirt people, do they still really have any creidibility left?

I'll believe Thailand is a modern nation who cares for its most vulnerable when Patpong closes (now I am being utopian!)

Close Patpong?????????

Estimates for Patpong, I forget the real figures but I am close; there is 15 billion of declared taxable income per year with another 40 billion undelared.

The red shirts are no different than the yellow other than party politics. They both use deceptive political statements they select to use on the masses.

Politicians are like baby diapers and need to be changed for the same reason

[jayboy]

By 'they', I was referring to the bog-standard peasant (not a red militant). The average Joe in the fields does not want a revolution. He just wants to do a bit better in life - preferably this one, not the next one.

Usually he's offered no improvements by any political party, (So THB 500 is the next best thing). I don't blame these people for feeling cynical about the townies, and then selling out their vote.

I also meant bog-standard peasant - they've been enlisted in someone else's war.

Every party offers populist schemes to them now, they are not fighting for that. I hope you don't think they took to the streets because PPP somehow offered them better policies last year than Democrats. They have no idea why they took to the streets, they can't give you (us) a single reason. They just parrot irrelevant stuff they've been made to feel strongly about.

The average Joe may not want a revolution but it's this kind of insufferable patronising rubbish that ends up getting throats slit.I accept (or rather hope) that the language used is partly for dramatic effect though for someone who seems to know the country well it is strikingly unThai in tone (though consistent with some of the racist rhetoric used at PAD rallies.) What is remarkable is its ignorance (there's no such thing as a bog standard peasant) and barely concealed hatred.Incidentally revolutions always happen when things are getting better not worse. and things have been getting better oin Thailand.

Anyway thank goodness people like this aren't in charge, and never will be.

[samgrowth]

Chamlong should rule Thailand. As what I don't care. Governor, Minister, PM, President, even ....

Thailand will then have a chance of becoming a utopia.

Imagin BKK without SEX, drug, gambling, crime, drinks, greed, rubbish, smell, colour, noise, etc.

It is going to be like haven.

[HagenvonTronje]

Close Patpong?????????

Estimates for Patpong, I forget the real figures but I am close; there is 15 billion of declared taxable income per year with another 40 billion undelared.

The red shirts are no different than the yellow other than party politics. They both use deceptive political statements they select to use on the masses.

Politicians are like baby diapers and need to be changed for the same reason

read chamlong:

a) The new party, which has not been named, should command a majority of MP seats after the next general election, and will be a coalition member in the next government. It will be useless if we cannot lead the coalition or form a government, because there will be nothing new to Thai politics.

Even the Abhisit government is practising the old politics at a certain point - .. For example, ... it eventually decided to draw back from a ban on alcohol sales during Songkran, under influence from liquor companies.

that is just the beginning, but lucky we are, nobody will vote for them.

[chrislarsson]

Am I correct if I say Prem, Army and some top police have the real control of Thailand?

No, you'd be incorrect.

Prem wasn't in full control even when he was the PM.

Now he is too old to control anything. Many powerful people respect him but he doesn't control them.

The army and the police are far from being unified. Chamlong feared a Songkran coup AGAINST Prem, for example.

So much for control.

So who controls Thailand?

Must be Prem. Many top ranking army and police meet him. The reds said who wants to move governors or key army, police have to ask Prem.

Better Prem than Thaksin or Charlerm....at least we know where his loyalties are.

Ok...so now we want to go back 500 years in time? That is not backwards. Power should be separated into independent branches, and each one controlled by checks and balances. And loyalty should be to the constitution.

Edited April 28, 2009 by chrislarsson

[animatic]

Public Relkations PR companies can be run from a good laptop and WIFI

anywhere on earth IF the priciple has the right connections and numbers to call

to get things done to sway public opinion in the way the client wants it swayed.

It can be on one room letter drop in NYC ands still have revenues of millions of $

yet not own it's own presses or recording / video studios etc.

I have subcontracted for PR companies over decades.

They sell ideas and plans, not hardware systems to work on.

Koo all this crap brought up in the censure motions is irrelevant

it didn't turn into anything substantial on examination.

It didn't harm the government one bit.

It means SQUAT,

so why bother to throw it around like it's facts?

Why crap and squat here? If I were your side, would that be rice and western style?

It's not my main point whether company is big or small. Khun Chalerm said there was no contract of hiring this company to do the PR job for 258 million Baht and no record of this fund in Democrat Party's account. He said the 29 million Baht fund was not listed clearly how it was spent.

Of course Democrat said their family members are adults and have their own business, so money transferred to these people's account is normal.

Of course when Democrat had enough people voted for Abhisit to be in power, they voted for him to survive the censure debate. A child also understands this.

Crap means B.S. ,of no value ready for the toilet; also known as the Crapper.

Squat means either

Lowering you rear end towards your heels,

or

Absolutely nothing of substance. as in the colloquial phrase it ain't diddly squat.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Assuming that Kuhn Chalerm never bends the truth to his own ends,

this only means he COULDN'T FIND a contract. Not that one doesn't exist.

Unless his minions are prepared to break and enter and search safes and filing cabinets,

he has NOTHING.

Only accusations that got no traction in the legislative sessions.

Throw dirt and see if it sticks, nothing more sustitantive.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The 29 million is a matter for the EC. to decide on, not Chalerm

29 million could be ONE LINE ITEM in a big campaign. Posters for instance.

He brought it up and nothing has been heard since, has it?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes there is, as of yet, no law saying a politicians family's may not operate a business.

And I don't believe there is one saying that they can't do business with political parties.

Their immediate families can not do government business.

Such as Oak's advertising company getting the SkyTrain concession yanked

back from another company and given to lil Oak without bidding.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guess what Koo, the difference between PPP and Democrats in the last election was

100,000 votes, out of 30,000,000 voters. That is close enough for Abhisit to have a

legislative change of coalition and be completely legitimate in the PM's chair.

Regardless of the PTP whining.

If the dems only got 10-15% and the PPP 51% and this happened

I WOULD SIDE WITH YOU, but the margin is so close that it is a legitimate change of coalition,

and with in the bounds of Parliamentary Procedures.

Edited April 28, 2009 by animatic

[LawnGnome]

Ok...so now we want to go back 500 years in time? That is not backwards. Power should be separated into independent branches, and each one controlled by checks and balances. And loyalty should be to the constitution.

Yes, because that has worked so well up to this point in time... I believe that Thailand should actively pursue its own road to democracy. It is certainly going to be a bumpy ride, but they deserve the chance to figure out what works best for them, in as honest a manner as possible. A constitution that is corrupted by power hungry meglomaniacs (that's the 1997 version and Thaksin, in case you weren't paying attention), is worthless.

And telling Thai people that their loyalty should be to the constitution is all well and good, but they don't care what you think. I would have thought that most farang would have figured that out by now, lol.

[animatic]

Koo82,

While Thaksin is in the self-exile, you are in the state of the self imposed denial.

Your repeated foolish remarks and imprudent arguments are simply boring.

Seconded.

Third.

The repeated issuing of incorrect information hurts the red cause immeasurably.

The truth will set you free, not a enndless tissue of misinformation and lies.

[webfact]

Koo82,

While Thaksin is in the self-exile, you are in the state of the self imposed denial.

Your repeated foolish remarks and imprudent arguments are simply boring.

Taksin is not in self-exile he is hiding to avoid jail and pending prosecution and trials

[animatic]

Koo82,

While Thaksin is in the self-exile, you are in the state of the self imposed denial.

Your repeated foolish remarks and imprudent arguments are simply boring.

Taksin is not in self-exile he is hiding to avoid jail and pending prosecution and trials

While pretending to lead an 'Official Delegation of Thai Business Interests'

to a string of Tin Pot Dictators in a string of third world countries.

Total pratt.

Edited April 28, 2009 by animatic

[hammered]

One difference between the Abhisit government and the Samak/Somchai ones is that Abhisit is offering to talk to people and offering to concede certain things the other side wants. The other governments stated what was necessary for reconcilliation on their terms and never accepted any of the other sides demands.

[Plus]

By 'they', I was referring to the bog-standard peasant (not a red militant). The average Joe in the fields does not want a revolution. He just wants to do a bit better in life - preferably this one, not the next one.

Usually he's offered no improvements by any political party, (So THB 500 is the next best thing). I don't blame these people for feeling cynical about the townies, and then selling out their vote.

I also meant bog-standard peasant - they've been enlisted in someone else's war.

Every party offers populist schemes to them now, they are not fighting for that. I hope you don't think they took to the streets because PPP somehow offered them better policies last year than Democrats. They have no idea why they took to the streets, they can't give you (us) a single reason. They just parrot irrelevant stuff they've been made to feel strongly about.

The average Joe may not want a revolution but it's this kind of insufferable patronising rubbish that ends up getting throats slit.I accept (or rather hope) that the language used is partly for dramatic effect though for someone who seems to know the country well it is strikingly unThai in tone (though consistent with some of the racist rhetoric used at PAD rallies.) What is remarkable is its ignorance (there's no such thing as a bog standard peasant) and barely concealed hatred.Incidentally revolutions always happen when things are getting better not worse. and things have been getting better oin Thailand.

Anyway thank goodness people like this aren't in charge, and never will be.

Hold on here - who are you talking to? First few paragraphs in your quote are not mine.

What is this "patronising" you were talking about?

As far as I can see, the only part of MY message that you could be referring to is this:

"They have no idea why they took to the streets, they can't give you (us) a single reason. They just parrot irrelevant stuff they've been made to feel strongly about."

Instead of blasting me - give me ONE single legitimate reason for their protests that was supposed to address THEIR problems and not Thaksin's.

[jayboy]

By 'they', I was referring to the bog-standard peasant (not a red militant). The average Joe in the fields does not want a revolution. He just wants to do a bit better in life - preferably this one, not the next one.

Usually he's offered no improvements by any political party, (So THB 500 is the next best thing). I don't blame these people for feeling cynical about the townies, and then selling out their vote.

I also meant bog-standard peasant - they've been enlisted in someone else's war.

Every party offers populist schemes to them now, they are not fighting for that. I hope you don't think they took to the streets because PPP somehow offered them better policies last year than Democrats. They have no idea why they took to the streets, they can't give you (us) a single reason. They just parrot irrelevant stuff they've been made to feel strongly about.

The average Joe may not want a revolution but it's this kind of insufferable patronising rubbish that ends up getting throats slit.I accept (or rather hope) that the language used is partly for dramatic effect though for someone who seems to know the country well it is strikingly unThai in tone (though consistent with some of the racist rhetoric used at PAD rallies.) What is remarkable is its ignorance (there's no such thing as a bog standard peasant) and barely concealed hatred.Incidentally revolutions always happen when things are getting better not worse. and things have been getting better oin Thailand.

Anyway thank goodness people like this aren't in charge, and never will be.

Hold on here - who are you talking to? First few paragraphs in your quote are not mine.

What is this "patronising" you were talking about?

As far as I can see, the only part of MY message that you could be referring to is this:

"They have no idea why they took to the streets, they can't give you (us) a single reason. They just parrot irrelevant stuff they've been made to feel strongly about."

Instead of blasting me - give me ONE single legitimate reason for their protests that was supposed to address THEIR problems and not Thaksin's.

Sorry my fault.I apologise unreservedly (though I'd question the "made to feel strongly about" comment)

Too quick on the draw before caffeine fix, I'm afraid.

Apologies again.

[Plus]

Nevermind, I don't need apologies,

How about those reasons? I've been asking around for a couple of days now.

They can be upset that generals meddled in forming the current coalition. Could be a legitimate reason if not double standards - Thaksin was personally appointing cabinet members and they didn't feel anything about it. What's good for the goose...

The talk about Prem and Privy Council has been dropped from the updated red agenda, btw.

[Samuian]

Do you know that PR company? Chalerm said this company had 1 million Baht fund and did not have its own printing company, was located in a small quiet area and company looked like a private house. Do you know if the company is still running or has gone bankruptcy? Because of what? No money to pay tax? 258 million Baht for a 1 million Baht company to do the PR works. Chalerm said there were no contracts of PM works with this company, no purchase of banners or related material, and there were no record of this 258 M Baht in Democrat Party's account.

This PR company transferred many times of the amount 1.8 million and 1.9 million Baht to people having close relation with Democrat Party. Because money from 2 million Baht up must go through corruption inspection. One of the transfer slips was faxed to Democrat Party's fax number in Bangkok.

And party fund 29 million Baht from Election Commission was misused.

I heard these from the censure debate. During Khun Chalerm's talk, Abhisit was almost fainted .

Like I said, Democrat will never go wrong. Good luck and be happy!

I can't be bothered to go into every single detail of this case. The case was argued at lenght in the last censure debate in the parliament and it has laready been forwarded to the gov't agency to be investigated. I just hope that when the outcome of the investigation comes out, you won't be whining that it's an unfair ruling again.

I also noticed that for some reason you have never mentioned the fact that TPI has filed a defamation suit against Chalerm involving this story.

As for Chalerm's credibility, I'm just gonna say that he's the same guy who said "Ai Pued" killed the policeman in that nightclub on that night...not his son, despite the contrary accounts of witnesses and evidence. I think that perticular son of his is no longer in Thailand. He fled a long time ago. And to these days, no one knows how "Ai Pued" is...except mister honorable Chalerm I guess. So yeah, Chalerm's words do carry a lot of weight.

You said it, you "guess" - but sorry, "guessed" wrong!

His son is back in the army - restored rank 'n everything - because he "didn't do anything wrong, nor did he kill anyone"!

That is how "credible" Mr.Chalerm is and how things use to work - till today in this country for certain people, the "puu Yai"...and their like!

It appears that you mistake "influential" and "powerful" all the way to "ruthless" with "credible"!

[HagenvonTronje]

One difference between the Abhisit government and the Samak/Somchai ones is that Abhisit is offering to talk to people and offering to concede certain things the other side wants. The other governments stated what was necessary for reconcilliation on their terms and never accepted any of the other sides demands.

that is difference that you like the yellow team so much and see only the good things and you dislike the reds/thaksin and be afraid abhisit could lose his fragile power.

the real difference between somchai and abhisit is that somchais wife has more body weight as the then PM and that abhisits wife has more brain power than the now PM.

the real difference between Abhisit and Samak is, that you have to imagine thai politics as jail house, full of "professional" and samak is an old heavy weight, with old antagonism and abhisit just the new handsome boy with some experience from Eton. aloha.

[Ricardo]

The good news is that, in both the UDD and the PAD, there are probably many normal people, who believe in democracy and freedom and lack-of-corruption.

These supporters may one day form a genuine party to represent the ordinary people. But it cannot also be a party like PPP/PTP that has the pardoning of a corrupt on-the-run criminal as its number-one priority.

Let's just believe only Khun Thaksin is corrupt. Everyone else especially Democrat Party and Newin are working for the benefits of Thailand.

Corruption in Thailand was not known until year 2544 when Khun T became PM.

Only within those 5 years Khun T worked as PM that corruption was known.

Sorry Koo, but I don't agree with any of your 3 statements above, do you have any evidence for them ?

Ricardo,

Glad you're still keen on this "criminal" thing.

How did he become "criminal"? His wife bought a piece of land. Court said no fault what so ever. Land is still hers. Seller has no fault as well. He became criminal because he was PM and was her husband at the same time.

Corruption is a very well chosen word. If there were corruption, why would both seller and buyer not be charged? Why is the land still hers?

The more people talk about this case, the more laugh people in other countries have for Thailand. In their countries, they don't have this kind of "criminal".

What people are doing, including supporting the yellows to block 2 airports, is just to stop Khun T from coming back to be PM again.

Is it worth the efforts? Bringing Thailand to be a joke just to knock one man?

How did Thaksin become a criminal ? How long have you got ??

His wife bought land from a government-agency, when he was PM, and he was aware of the deal. There is a law against the family of top politicians, having business-dealings with government, to avoid any chance of their influencing the terms of the deal. This deal broke that law, Thaksin was found guilty, and didn't appeal against it.

There are several more cases against Thaksin, all of which are currently being delayed, by his failure to show up in court, to hear the charges read. The delay is because of Thaksin's having run away, and continued voluntary absence, not because he is or isn't guilty. Do you honestly believe he is innocent of every last case ?

Lastly he was given permission to leave Thailand, to attend the Olympics, before returning. Instead he failed to come back, and was sentenced, so he is a criminal merely by virtue of the fact that he skipped bail.

Thaksin can't come back to be PM again, he is under a 5-year ban from politics, as well as having a sentence in jail to serve.

If anyone is bringing Thailand to be a joke, it is former-PM Thaksin, he was let off by the court in 2001, just how many extra chances does any criminal expect to get ? Even a rich & formerly-influential one ?

Is it worth bringing Thailand to be a joke, as you say, just to serve the interests of one former-PM ? I myself would put the interests of the country, and its people, ahead of Thaksin. Feel free to continue to disagree.

[Samuian]

The good news is that, in both the UDD and the PAD, there are probably many normal people, who believe in democracy and freedom and lack-of-corruption.

These supporters may one day form a genuine party to represent the ordinary people. But it cannot also be a party like PPP/PTP that has the pardoning of a corrupt on-the-run criminal as its number-one priority.

Let's just believe only Khun Thaksin is corrupt. Everyone else especially Democrat Party and Newin are working for the benefits of Thailand.

Corruption in Thailand was not known until year 2544 when Khun T became PM.

Only within those 5 years Khun T worked as PM that corruption was known.

Sorry Koo, but I don't agree with any of your 3 statements above, do you have any evidence for them ?

Ricardo,

Glad you're still keen on this "criminal" thing.

How did he become "criminal"? His wife bought a piece of land. Court said no fault what so ever. Land is still hers. Seller has no fault as well. He became criminal because he was PM and was her husband at the same time.

Corruption is a very well chosen word. If there were corruption, why would both seller and buyer not be charged? Why is the land still hers?

The more people talk about this case, the more laugh people in other countries have for Thailand. In their countries, they don't have this kind of "criminal".

What people are doing, including supporting the yellows to block 2 airports, is just to stop Khun T from coming back to be PM again.

Is it worth the efforts? Bringing Thailand to be a joke just to knock one man?

How did Thaksin become a criminal ? How long have you got ??

His wife bought land from a government-agency, when he was PM, and he was aware of the deal. There is a law against the family of top politicians, having business-dealings with government, to avoid any chance of their influencing the terms of the deal. This deal broke that law, Thaksin was found guilty, and didn't appeal against it.

There are several more cases against Thaksin, all of which are currently being delayed, by his failure to show up in court, to hear the charges read. The delay is because of Thaksin's having run away, and continued voluntary absence, not because he is or isn't guilty. Do you honestly believe he is innocent of every last case ?

Lastly he was given permission to leave Thailand, to attend the Olympics, before returning. Instead he failed to come back, and was sentenced, so he is a criminal merely by virtue of the fact that he skipped bail.

Thaksin can't come back to be PM again, he is under a 5-year ban from politics, as well as having a sentence in jail to serve.

If anyone is bringing Thailand to be a joke, it is former-PM Thaksin, he was let off by the court in 2001, just how many extra chances does any criminal expect to get ? Even a rich & formerly-influential one ?

Is it worth bringing Thailand to be a joke, as you say, just to serve the interests of one former-PM ? I myself would put the interests of the country, and its people, ahead of Thaksin. Feel free to continue to disagree.

Many people just either don't want to grasp or deny this fact,

that he ignored the law as the head of government!

That what Samak has been axed for, NOT for a "humble cooking show"!

And THIS got to be changed - if this behavoir - the above the law scheme

isn't dealt with in the near future how will the international community,

investors take Thailand - any Government of it take serious and above all

trust them?

THIS is the problem, not some deal, not Thaksin himself, but what he did,

his openly displayed ignorance

"UN is not my father"

"Democracy not my aim"

"Honest mistake"

"the have been weak from fasting" (suffocated Tak Bai victims)

this and many, many other things he had done and said

have attributed to his downfall!

Not his "opponents", they have to make sure now that he

either brought to justice or never, ever may return to Thailand.

An who is in control, well it' has been always money, power, influence!

To gain back some genuine democratic power, will take a lot more then

just bring someone like Thaksin to justice, he is only the very tip of the

iceberg, which some claim that has recently surfaced!

It's the result of the many, many years of selfserving public figures,

which have made cronyism, corruption and self serving the state religion!

the therapy, if there are enough willing surgeons, will take a long time!

As there are many, many forces who are used to this system of self feeding,

who will make them give up their privileges, who or what can generate their

income - they have actually only fed off the trough and never generated any

goods or services themselves!

This is the genuine problem of this country and it's people!

But I think, that the out of hand events in Bangkok and the reactions

of the citizens gave a clear indication that those times might be over!

It's not any more the "close the windows and lock the door" attitude,

as it always have been, and peoples politics, "genuine democracy,

is nourished by the peoples active participation, not by looking the other way!

Chamlong is as Sondhi, as Veera, as the many, many other voices only

"another brick in the wall"!

I think it would be a mistake to overvalue any single one of their opinions!

yeah, this song comes to mind:

"we don't need no edu....

We dont need no thought control

No dark sarcasm in the classroom

Teachers leave them kids alone....."

...... why is that I wonder?

Who does educate whom, how, here - full circle?

Edited April 28, 2009 by Samuian

[HagenvonTronje]

I think it would be a mistake to overvalue any single one of their opinions!

yeah, this song comes to mind:

"we don't need no edu....

We dont need no thought control

No dark sarcasm in the classroom

Teachers leave them kids alone....."

...... why is that I wonder?

Who does educate whom, how, here - full circle?

Chamlong was the teacher and advisor for thaksin.

why everybody becomes here more and more off topic and even starts to sing silly songs.

the old had and senior citizen with some blank spots in his CV about what he have done in the 70s (commie slayer?) had spoken and that he want to take over the majority of the MP seats with a new party, "which has not been named."

can you imagine how unfunny daily life in thailand would if his student thaksin had followed him in all points.

that other PAD leader and co-founder of Palang Dharma, Chaiwat Sinsuwong, is a big admirer of kim ij sung and juche nationalism no surprise if you look at the Palang Dharma policy.

i am tend to say that we can be lucky that thaksin starts his business man approach and CEO leadership instead of some Führer idea like Chamlong.

don't point your narrow view only on thaksin, look a little bit around an check the others as well.

the non tea totalers of you (yellow fans and) abhist admirers. look what that whacko comrade had said. your dear beloved abhisit is called old politics because there was no ban on alcohol on songkran. funsucker. that would just the first step to a planned society.

and new politics is not abhisit, but see above, new party, "which has not been named." want to run the show.

abhisit, call the police, catch and neuter him. reasons for charges are there. what was the great promise of the PAD, they will not go for office. so please abhisit, make sure that this ghost of the very old days comes not in position.

[chrislarsson]

Ok...so now we want to go back 500 years in time? That is not backwards. Power should be separated into independent branches, and each one controlled by checks and balances. And loyalty should be to the constitution.

Yes, because that has worked so well up to this point in time... I believe that Thailand should actively pursue its own road to democracy. It is certainly going to be a bumpy ride, but they deserve the chance to figure out what works best for them, in as honest a manner as possible. A constitution that is corrupted by power hungry meglomaniacs (that's the 1997 version and Thaksin, in case you weren't paying attention), is worthless.

And telling Thai people that their loyalty should be to the constitution is all well and good, but they don't care what you think. I would have thought that most farang would have figured that out by now, lol.

I didn't say Thailand should not pursue it's own path, and I'm not even suggesting that Thailand should be a democracy. What it does need is separation of powers.

It's funny that you a referring to Thai people as if Thaksin does not have any supporters.