Dross

[chuchok]

Thai BG who has had her heart broken by the many lying farangs that promise her the earth and deliver nothing, the endless times she has endured the fat drunken farang sweating over her in hope that one day that special man will find her and take her away, the weeks she has spent waiting for the letter or phone call that never came, the pressure she is under to support her fatherless child and family at home, the nights she cried herself to sleep when she made the choice to become a BG, You could write about how she changed from a sweet and naive Isan girl to the cynical, suspicious BG. Hey you could put a twist on the end and have her commit suicide because driven by shame she turns to drugs or alcohol to compensate for her lifestyle and in the end death seems to be the only option left.

yes , lets all have a good cry over the poor bar girls , quick... pass the kleenex.

why not write about the intense pressure and acute stress felt by the central issaan character as she struggles on her back trying to make enough to support three mobile phones , her amphetamine and alcohol habit and her penchant for expensive brand name shoes , juggling hans,harry and hank as their trips to thailand overlap , how to fit in enough time to give her motorcycle driver some sack time to pay off her account.

the day of the innocent poor girl is long gone.

these days they are canny savvy streetwise players. save your sympathy for the aids sufferers ,the orphans and the real poor of this country. they need your help more.

there is so much more to this country than bars and the hackneyed stereotypes that mostly inhabit that world on a regular basis.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pass the kleenex...I would agree. While not trying to sound like Doctor John, have you ever thought what these drugged up, money thieving girls were like before they got into the trade? I can not believe that they ALL were like this.

Do you think that the environment and job chages them at all?

Put a 17 or 18 girl from almost any culture in this situation, wait a few years and I'll be my last dollar that nearly all turn out to be rat bags. Most people don't start out streetwise, they become.

[RDN]

Steve said

""It was never meant to be literature, just a good read....""

and it was too, great entertainment....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...and that's exactly what it was. I'm happily surprised to find out that other people also read it in one or two sittings, like me. The only reason I didn't read it in one sitting was because I had promised to meet someone. But the next day I read it from evening to early morning - couldn't stop, it was enjoyable, easy to read, amusing, sad,... I think I'll read it again!

...although an avid reader i haven't read this book and have refrained from making any comments on the  quality or lack of quality of the writing.......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice to see that at least one person who has not actually read it, isn't criticising it! Tax, If you want a copy of the original downloadable PDF file, send me an email address in a PM Same goes for anyone else (sorry Stephen, but it WAS free ).

...Put a 17 or 18 girl from almost any culture in this situation, wait a few years and I'll be my last dollar that nearly all turn out to be rat bags...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It only took a couple of months with the "best friend" of my girlfriend. She was a nice girl and looking to make some money. She came to Bangkok from my g/f's village near Chaiyaphum and stayed one night in my apartment with me and my g/f - she slept on the couch. She was very shy and we lent her some money to get her started in bkk. The next day she moved in to my g/f's old room and promised to look after it and pay a bit towards the rent. She did neither but stole some small luggage bags when she disappeared. She'd moved in with a "customer". We went to see her in her bar in Pat Pong - she was wearing new clothes, new shoes, had a new mobile, but she promised to repay the money. It took us about 8 months to get the money back .

This girl really was sweet and shy when I first saw her, and now she is... totally the opposite. She has learnt her trade well. And quick. Sad, the way she treated her old "best friend", but good luck to her.

[taxexile]

and where is all the sympathy for the REAL isaan people , the real heartland people of this country?

the maids and other domestics.

the taxi drivers

the street cooks

the yaams

the labourers

the factory workers

who also support families and children back home. but probably dont have expensive consumer habits to feed.

how come only the hookers get the sympathy and the attention, when they are the least deserving of it.

how come there are no books written about the lives and adventures of the working people here, many of these people have stories to tell and stories more relevant than the usual bargirl tale.

probably because sex sells , it doesnt take much literary ability to write a story about a sex worker , its an easy write.

but to write about a maid , a taxi driver etc. and make it interesting and saleable , well very few authors could do that succesfully , certainly not an easy write.

so please , spare us the sympathy for the bar girls , most of them can take care of themselves by selling their bodies and their smiles.

Edited February 12, 2005 by taxexile

[chuchok]

and where is all the sympathy for the REAL isaan people  , the real heartland people of this country?

the maids and other domestics.

the taxi drivers

the street cooks

the yaams

the labourers

the factory workers

who also support families and children back home. but probably dont have expensive consumer habits to feed.

how come only the hookers get the sympathy and the attention, when they are the least deserving of it.

how come there are no books written about the lives and adventures of the working people here, many of these people have stories to tell and stories more relevant than the usual bargirl tale.

probably because sex sells , it doesnt take much literary ability to write a story about a sex worker , its an easy write.

but to write about a maid , a taxi driver etc. and make it interesting and saleable , well very few authors could do that succesfully , certainly not an easy write.

so please , spare us the sympathy for the bar girls , most of them can take care of themselves by selling their bodies and their smiles.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The hookers are sending money to the REAL Issan people.

[taxexile]

The hookers are sending money to the REAL Issan people. 

you must be right , thats why nothing gets done in this country.

[chico]

The hookers are sending money to the REAL Issan people. 

you must be right , thats why nothing gets done in this country.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that's why the government doesn't have to do anything for isaan, since there are enough stupid farangs doing it!

let them stay a bit longer and screw them a bit more, but let'em develop that for us, we just tell the people another lie for the reelection!!

[gburns57au]

Again on this forum and as in the book all I am hearing about is stereotypical versions of BG's. Most bar owners will not employ drug users and anyone found to be a user is usually dismissed Pronto. Although I realise that there are bar owners who dont care about this. Only a few girls I have met have had multiple donors on the go at the same time. Anyone caught thieving from the bar or a customer is usually sacked as well.

as for writing the book I suggested to "I wrote it", I am not a wordsmith or even pretend to be one. I think that is a little out my league...

[RDN]

...Only a few girls I have met have had multiple donors on the go at the same time.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe they didn't tell you everything. I knew one girl who had several "boyfriends" on the go. One day, five of them turned up at the same time. She paid her own bar fine and did a runner.

[ProfessorFart]

Saying it 'to the writer's face' is PRECISELY what you are not doing, old boy!

You're writing it on an internet Forum, behind an anonymous 'handle'.

Which is why I used quotes and 'as it were'

However I doubt that Mr Leather even gives a rats a55 what I think as he only used this thread for a quick plug and why not!!

[taxexile]

However I doubt that Mr Leather even gives a rats a55 what I think

correct , they say he is pretty thick skinned.

[RDN]

.... gives a rats a55 ....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, so you've read "Tunnel Rats" by Stephen Leather, then?

By the way, this is a quote from an interview with him on another web site:

"From time to time I visit Thai bulletin boards and chat rooms, but never reveal myself as the author of Private Dancer."

[Shola]

.... gives a rats a55 ....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, so you've read "Tunnel Rats" by Stephen Leather, then?

By the way, this is a quote from an interview with him on another web site:

"From time to time I visit Thai bulletin boards and chat rooms, but never reveal myself as the author of Private Dancer."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm, interesting!

I do believe it was actually him (My leather) though, maybe he just decided to come out of the shadows on T.V!

Maybe we just make irresistable chatter here!

[srisatch]

A finality!?

1.5 Million words in print...as it happens I have read most of them, ( I missed some when I dozed off) Some of them are OK...about 10%

I agree with the Prof...In Sum....Dancer is utter CRAP

and in spite of coming on the forum..if he is not the guy...I still say he has STOLEN/GHOSTED -unacknowledged....someone's story

I am reading the Life of Thaksin...now there is a story to make the heart bleed!!

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

In Asia Books today I had a flick through some of the 'new arrivals' - Sukhumvit Road, Skytrain to Murder, Eddies a go go, Sins of Desire (?), My name is Num (Som?..something), Thai Girl.

..and Fart has a point, in fact he's right. It is dross.

The dialogue is just terrible, just monosyllabic formulaic meandering.

"I love you long time, you me same same."

I realize its fairly authentic, but its doesn't need any ability to write it. Its unreadable.

Maybe I have good memories of Private Dancer because it was the first I'd read.

When you think that for B 450 you can get 8 brand new hardback works by Thai authors, in that specialist Asian shop adjacent to Saladaeng station (4th floor), beautiful, bucolic period pieces. Best bargain in Bangkok those are.

[RDN]

.... gives a rats a55 ....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, so you've read "Tunnel Rats" by Stephen Leather, then?

By the way, this is a quote from an interview with him on another web site:

"From time to time I visit Thai bulletin boards and chat rooms, but never reveal myself as the author of Private Dancer."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm, interesting!

I do believe it was actually him (My leather) though, maybe he just decided to come out of the shadows on T.V!

Maybe we just make irresistable chatter here!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, I can confirm that it was Stephen Leather who posted.

[PeaceBlondie]

So, the formula is that if I want to write a book (or a third of a novel) about Thailand, it's expected to be about drugs, female prostitutes, crooked police, gunfights, and heavy drinking? Gosh, I'm already on page 219 - let's see, the Thailand part begins at page 119, with lots of holes in the whole plot, but no whores. Also, no drugs, no crooked police, plenty of assassinations but no gunfights, only one little scene where two people have four drinks each.....I must be doing something wrong. It's about peace and war and nonviolence and massacres, about sex that isn't paid for, about poverty and riches, fame and fortune...how can it be about Thailand? It probably won't get published. Oh well, I'm writing it because my heart requires it. Tomorrow is the anniversary of the event that finally triggered the novel, so maybe in one more year I'll finish it.

Edited February 14, 2005 by PeaceBlondie

[taxexile]

has anybody read the new blockbuster that seems to flying off the shelves at poxy phils second hand book emporium in soi blowjob down there in pattaya?

its called "carry on thaivisa in bangcock....ooh matron ! " and it features a motley crew of zany characters struggling to come to terms with the strange twists of fate that finds them lurching from disaster to beer bottle in the exotic and humid east in their struggle for supremacy over internet mogul and mr. big ( george ) , the evil brains behind thaivisa.com , sitting in front of banks of computers 60 stories up in an underground hong kong high rise with some pussy on his lap , he pulls the strings and beercan tops whilst trying to control his wayward empire.

blast your way through this unputdownable pageturner as he tries to prevent a rag-bag bunch of no-mark illiterates , low - life expats and would be pundits from ruining his baby and gravy train by clogging up useful bandwith , bandwidth that could be bringing in millions in tax free offshore advertising revenue..... if only ..

if only those drunken expats would raise the tone of the discussions a bit , then he could get some decent advertisers here instead of all those cheap links to khao san road travel agents , samut prakaan shirt factories , soi cowboy webcams , all those moneypit bars that sunbelt asia want to offload and internet antibiotic and textured condom suppliers.

george is helped in his struggle for world domination by his trusty gang of moderators , led by the enigmatic dr. pat pong. thought by many to be a supporter of islamic expansionist policies this stern no nonsense enforcer has racked up a staggering 5000 irreversible fatwahs against those who have dared to cross his narrow path.

an expert in the labyrinthine ways of the thai legal system he can hunt down and humiliate a poverty packer , illegal soap dodger , or scamster before they have left the airport .

other moderators , trained in the tough unforgiving world of school prefects and library silencing try , usually unsuccesfully to retain the moral high ground , so beloved of advertisers and officialdom.

attempting to subvert the operation and drag it down into the natural habitat of all web forums , the rat infested gutters of bad taste , are the army of posters.

expat stereotypes and wannabes , hucksters , snake oil salesmen , shagmeisters and mad shysters use ever more subtle tactics to steer the threads down the populist tabloid paths of alcohol abuse , self abuse , the duplicitousness of the thais , anti americanism , prostitutes and those who marry them , political incorrectness and those old favourites , sure to garner sympathy from sensitive readers.... annoying the housewives and schoolteachers...... easy targets to wind up as they are too busy ironing or marking to answer back

laugh as ageing lovesick posters are bankrupted by bargirls ,

weep as heavy hitting stockbrokers lose fortunes ,

recoil in revulsion as it rains suicide victims in pattaya ,

smirk with sarcasm as newbies ask stupid questions .... the same ones that you asked when you first arrived here ,

dance with delight as the dollar descends to errrrr.., deep depths ,

go green with envy as lying bastards tell you how many bargirls they have had in the past week for free ,

mop your brow with misery as mega - rich taxexile goes on and on and on and on about how he isnt going to pay yet another racist 5 baht overcharge ,

pray profusely that smarmy wideboy land agents lose everything in a property crash ,

wank with wonderment as best selling authors , even ones who think they are a little bit famous , manage to type words of two syllables ,

thank your lucky stars that you live in bangkok as you hear how skilled isaan engineers build georgian mansions out of bamboo and banana leaves for only 5 million baht ,

thank the good lord that you have at least one brain cell still functioning as you hear about those who have travelled half way around the world and spend most of their free time eating pork pies in mock english pubs ,

lock up your daughters as 30 times married geriatric casino operators threaten to move here ,

express your feminine side as the pavillion end bowling society demand that the gay forum background colour is changed to pink ,

scream "oh no not again" , as the right on and in your face all american superhero katwoman tries to save the world from , well the threat of the day.

sit down and have a cup of tea and a biscuit as you learn that simple simon has finally discovered the answer to the question that has until recently remained unanswered , do prostitutes sleep around? are you sitting down ? the answer may surprise you.

and have the chance to take vicious nasty cowardly potshots at anybody you dont like , even if you have never met them...... especially if you have never met them.

its a classic struggle for supremacy , all human (and quite a lot that isnt) life is there.

its the story they said would never be told , but you can read it now , its free , just log on to thaivisa.com.,

"what time is it".....b.trink.

Edited February 14, 2005 by taxexile

[RDN]

....its called "carry on  thaivisa in bangcock....ooh matron ! " ....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Love it, love it, love it! Keep it coming, taxy

[chuchok]

has anybody read the new blockbuster that seems to flying off the shelves at poxy phils second hand book emporium in soi blowjob down there in pattaya?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[mbkudu]

has anybody read the new blockbuster that seems to flying off the shelves at poxy phils second hand book emporium in soi blowjob down there in pattaya?

For this post Mr. Taxexile I would say say you are one of the Gods, second only to Fatter than Harry because he is the invetor of the DJ Pat hatred metre.

[Doctor John]

thank the good lord that you have at least one brain cell still functioning as you hear about those who have travelled half way around the world and spend most of their free time eating pork pies in mock english pubs ,

lock up your daughters as 30 times married geriatric casino operators threaten to move here ,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very good Taxexile.

[Jai Dee]

has anybody read.....

....

....

....

"what time is it".....b.trink.

That was absolutely brilliant taxexile!!!

What were you drinking/smoking/ingesting last night?

[gburns57au]

Very clever Taxexile.....

You missed the one about the self styled puritan who believes that prostitutes are the lowest of life.

oh and the other one... read the words of self styled Moral crusaders who believe that anyone who thinks differently to them will go straight to the gates of damnation.

And read how many of these men never married a bargirl because that is what their wives told them...

Edited February 15, 2005 by gburns57au

[khukhan]

.....There is a lot of good Contemporary Thai writing, but mostly it is not translated. Same prejudice as not wanting Westerners to speak Thai? I dunno

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well, may be it is rather opposite - for westerners to learn Thai to be able to read those books which ain't translated?

BTW - can you recommend some if you know the names? I would ask my wife to find and may be read for me. not sure though it would work this way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Writers my wife likes are:

Chatr Kobjitti

Kharnsing Srinawk

Maitree Limpichart*

Anchan

Samruam Singh

Sri Dao Ruang?*

Botan*

Sri Burapha*

Kampoon Boontawee*

Surangkanang,K*

Prechapoul Boonchuay

The ones with * are I think translated if you can find them!

There is also: Klaus Wenk: Thai Literature an Introduction. White Lotus. BKK 1995

And

Herbert Phillips. Modern Thai Literature Hawaii 1987

Benedict Anderson's In The Mirror still is of relevance

As you see she, and I for that matter, are rather keener on women authors…

Aside from "A Man in Saffron Robes", my translation (an unpublished manuscript that you can Google for excerpts) of Maitree Limpichart's "Khon nai Phaa Leuang", I do not believe that any of this author's work has thus far been translated and published in English.

Khukhan

[mark45y]

Taxexile I don't know who you are really but it was worth reading this long thread just to read your last post.

[sabaijai]

No one has mentioned Timothy Hallinan, a younger writer (compared to Leather, Needham, Moore, etc) who has a developed a series of novels set in Bkk. This one has been getting good reviews. I have a review copy myself but haven't got round to reading it yet.

http://www.amazon.com/Fourth-Watcher-Novel...k/dp/0061257257

I think Burdett does a fair job too.

Woman of Bangkok will be republished later this year by Monsoon Books, by the way.

The best writing I've seen on Bangkok in recent years is Bangkok Days, by Lawrence Osborne. Non-fiction, but captures the atmosphere of the city better than most. Well reviewed in the NY Times, The Telegraph, Publishers Weekly etc.

[bjoe97]

each to own- I suppose-I think the bible is utter crap.

But look at how many read it, it seems to have done rather well and the characters are far less real than most found in any of SL books.The plots too.

I also think "private dancer" is an excellent look at the real Thailand.I wonder why it has not been made into a film.

His other books are very good also.

Entertaining, well researched . I do think he is a cut above most and that we'll be hearing a lot more from this writer.I certainly hope so.

His certainly captures Thailand very well in many aspects which I know may offend some people as it hits a bit near to the bone.

At the airport I have seen some horribly dull tales I am amazed they made it into print, one about an Englishman coming out here, finding" true love" owning a farm....

I say " good luck to him" what I'd really like to know is a bit odd. I sort of spot things you see. In the photo of the young lady on the cover- was she a she, or was she once a he?

Does anyone know?

[bjoe97]

He also wrote on of the best insights into how badly bar girls are treated when sent abroad

" my name in Lon" show the tragic things a young lady has to do to survive, yes, it may called fiction, but a a lot of it is based upon fact

[bjoe97]

Hmmmm.... while I'm all in favour of free speech, Dr John, wouldn't it be better to hold off pontificating until you've actually read it....

How about if one has read it and still thinks its bilge?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have read it and I think it is total carp.....it just takes the stereotypical view of farang and Bar girl relationships as told by some the guys that have had bitter experiences and cant get over them. Mr Leather and his ilk should try writing about the relationships that have worked.....but probably not sensationalist enough for them. Bulldust sells more books than truth.

I also think it is strange that this thread was opened and Lo and Behold we have a new member calling himself "I wrote it" and purporting to be the author....What a coincidence....

did you mean carp, which a is a fish very popular in japan

or crap- you do not have to like it, read it, believe anything,nor be rude, showing you own personal issues,upbringing( or rather lack of it) to be somewhat lacking.

I and many other think its great.is that offensive to you. Maybe Mr Leather has reminded you of something you wanted to forget or perhaps because he is a success bothers you.

And I would avoid making yourself look more foolish by suggesting IWROTEIT is the person you are so obviouysly jealous of

Do not listen to these little folk Mr leather.

You always know when your doing something right when this lot has to whine.

[Rumcabal]

He also wrote on of the best insights into how badly bar girls are treated when sent abroad

" my name in Lon" show the tragic things a young lady has to do to survive, yes, it may called fiction, but a a lot of it is based upon fact

Err Have you even read this book? For a start its not a work of fiction. Its a true story about a girl, who's name is 'Lon'. Hence the title. That's a picture of her on the front cover.

Secondly, with the notable exception of 1 English guy who was just a slob, she got treated quite well when she was abroad. A Swiss guy married her but then foolishly thought that since they were married he wouldn't have to pay her for sex anymore. A Swedish guy then took her to Sweden and she seemed to have no complaints about him. Unfortunately, he lost his job and had to moved to Spain but the Swedish state seemed to take very good care of her. Gave her a place to stay, free health care..etc.. It was her decision to leave and return to Thailand.

If there is a real villain in this book, its clearly her Mother. Who shows no compassion or sympathy for her own daughter. Places continuous and unrealistic demands on her. Borrows huge sums and places the burden of debt repayment on her daughter. This book had nothing to do with her 'survival' and everything to do with her Mother's lifestyle expectations.