How Many Of You....

[Loaded]

Sorry, you are wrong, and I don't drink

maybe you should

[Rasseru]

I . . . did my TEFL in Phuket.

Do you think they do a better job of teaching English in Chiangmai?

[Mapguy]

Interesting OP and responses, but...

What can you say but "Each to his own."

My absolute favorite comment above is that in Chiang Mai people wear shoes and socks! But not all, not all --- definitely not among the farang here, many of whom seem to like to dress for the beach although there isn't one. Perhaps they would prefer Phuket. Any exchange programs?

Shall we "do" Pattaya next?

Edited April 29, 2009 by Mapguy

[mnbcm]

1] You'll always be farang no matter where you go. Have you learned Thai? I'd hope after 7 years you'd be fluent. I can't believe how many expats don't even try. Thais love it when you're willing to learn the language, even if you suck at it!

2] All you need is a good sized water tank and you'll never even know if the water is turned off.

3] I don't think you'll find electronics any cheaper in Chiang Mai. Food is cheaper though! I'm sure rent prices are cheaper too.

4] You have a lot of international schools to choose from. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Chiang-Mai-E...es-t184988.html

5] No beaches in Chiang Mai. I don't think there's a big litter problem here.

6] Showing your Thai driver's license hasn't worked for me at national parks around here. Maybe I'm not persistent enough.

7] Phuket is a giant tourist trap. CM is much more sabai.

8] No island fever up here. Just tons of mountains to explore! People are known for being more polite in CM. It's great living here! If you go to the night bazaar you'll think you're back in Phuket, but most other places are very different from Phuket. If I were you, I'd move here too. I've lived near Phuket and would never want to live there very long. It's great for a visit though.

[doppa]

1] You'll always be farang no matter where you go. Have you learned Thai? I'd hope after 7 years you'd be fluent. I can't believe how many expats don't even try. Thais love it when you're willing to learn the language, even if you suck at it!

2] All you need is a good sized water tank and you'll never even know if the water is turned off.

3] I don't think you'll find electronics any cheaper in Chiang Mai. Food is cheaper though! I'm sure rent prices are cheaper too.

4] You have a lot of international schools to choose from. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Chiang-Mai-E...es-t184988.html

5] No beaches in Chiang Mai. I don't think there's a big litter problem here.

6] Showing your Thai driver's license hasn't worked for me at national parks around here. Maybe I'm not persistent enough.

7] Phuket is a giant tourist trap. CM is much more sabai.

8] No island fever up here. Just tons of mountains to explore! People are known for being more polite in CM. It's great living here! If you go to the night bazaar you'll think you're back in Phuket, but most other places are very different from Phuket. If I were you, I'd move here too. I've lived near Phuket and would never want to live there very long. It's great for a visit though.

you know, like so many, i couldnt wait to start to learn thai, to communicate to a certain level, but got the energy, intent, willingness, excitment, knocked out of me, over a 2yr peroid, whilst doing a building project with an english colleague,never again, maybe i'll pick it up again when i get there, my 4yr old can teach me, 4 weeks and my appt is sold....let there be a god, please, ill wear socks for a fortnight, i'll even sacrifice my team for relegation...second thoughts there capable of doing that themselves.

[BlackArtemis]

I . . . did my TEFL in Phuket.

Do you think they do a better job of teaching English in Chiangmai?

I didn't teach in Phuket, just did the lil 1month "look at me ma, I've got a piece of paper" course.

So I can no compare the two in this way.

On a side note, best way to learn Thai is to ditch all your Farang friends.

[Ajarn]

I know what Phuket is like because I have lived there too. Plus, I have been living here for 25 years.

Just because it is about Phuket doesn't mean it is NOT about Thailand too. Maybe you need a clue....

And maybe you need to just relax or ask for a change of meds.

Nobody doubts your vast expertise but you do come across rather bullyish in your approach, sometimes even to newbies with fairly innocent posts or questions.

Did you read the message I was responding to?

Maybe you need a clue too

[Blinky Bill]

This is not the answer to your question but the problem with Chiang Mai is that there are too many whining expats who want everything to be perfect western style for them.

Oh, I almost forgot. I have been in Thailand over the past 26 years and have worked in about 15 Changwats and travelled extensively through most of the others so, like Ajarn, I do have a little knowledge which is more than I can say for the majority of the posters on this forum.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Blinky Bill

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Excellent, an "I have been here longer than you" argument. Old garde vs the noobs.

Seriously, in your good old days, did people also do arguments saying how long they'd been there at every opportunity? O wait, there weren't any wanke_rs then, so I guess that answer would be 'no'. So why start now?

[Blinky Bill]

Excellent, an "I have been here longer than you" argument. Old garde vs the noobs.

Seriously, in your good old days, did people also do arguments saying how long they'd been there at every opportunity? O wait, there weren't any wanke_rs then, so I guess that answer would be 'no'. So why start now?

There were 1 or 2 jerks around in those good old days, but back then almost everyone knew what Thailand was and accepted it. IMO the jerk ratio has gone from 1 in 100 back then to approximately 50 in 100 these days.

[Ulysses G.]

To be honest, there were some real nutters back then, but pretty much every farang wanted to live in Thailand and loved the place. Now, there are so many people who are only here because it is supposed to be cheap. They get really aggravated when it isn't and they can't stand the place otherwise.

[StevieH]

This is not the answer to your question but the problem with Chiang Mai is that there are too many whining expats who want everything to be perfect western style for them.

agree entirely. if i had never visited this wonderful, vibrant and fun city and was using this forum as a research bellwether i would assume that chiang mai was full of moaning, whiny old expat gits. when the truth is that the city is far from that, thankfully.

[Rasseru]

I have been in Thailand over the past 26 years and have worked in about 15 Changwats and travelled extensively through most of the others so, like Ajarn, I do have a little knowledge which is more than I can say for the majority of the posters on this forum.

Well done, Blinky! And there I was getting all proud of myself for still having only a little knowledge after living here for three years.

[doppa]

well for a relatively first time poster, that got some peoples juices going, must make this forum more of a habit.

[alfieconn]

I know what Phuket is like because I have lived there too. Plus, I have been living here for 25 years.

Just because it is about Phuket doesn't mean it is NOT about Thailand too. Maybe you need a clue....

And maybe you need to just relax or ask for a change of meds.

Nobody doubts your vast expertise but you do come across rather bullyish in your approach, sometimes even to newbies with fairly innocent posts or questions.

Did you read the message I was responding to?

Maybe you need a clue too

as a matter of interest why did you move from Phuket to Chiang mai ?

[alfieconn]

This is not the answer to your question but the problem with Chiang Mai is that there are too many whining expats who want everything to be perfect western style for them.

Oh, I almost forgot. I have been in Thailand over the past 26 years and have worked in about 15 Changwats and travelled extensively through most of the others so, like Ajarn, I do have a little knowledge which is more than I can say for the majority of the posters on this forum.

I think you have gone off subject there old chap ! or are you just trying to make the point that you are a very knowledgeable man ? being somewhere a long time doesn't necesary make you a clever chap.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

as a matter of interest why did you move from Phuket to Chiang mai ?

Probably related to WWII that was raging at the time.

Edited April 30, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[chiangmaioldhand]

This is not the answer to your question but the problem with Chiang Mai is that there are too many whining expats who want everything to be perfect western style for them.

Oh, I almost forgot. I have been in Thailand over the past 26 years and have worked in about 15 Changwats and travelled extensively through most of the others so, like Ajarn, I do have a little knowledge which is more than I can say for the majority of the posters on this forum.

I think you have gone off subject there old chap ! or are you just trying to make the point that you are a very knowledgeable man ? being somewhere a long time doesn't necesary make you a clever chap.

To keep it off-topic for the moment.... I just completed 20 years in Chiang Mai, so can someone please tell me do I get a badge or something? Maybe a certificate?  I'd like a Crackerjack Pencil but someone said that Crackerjack isn't on TV anymore!! 

Back on topic ... 

I think Chiang Mai is so good, I'm thinking of staying.

[Blinky Bill]

This is not the answer to your question but the problem with Chiang Mai is that there are too many whining expats who want everything to be perfect western style for them.

Oh, I almost forgot. I have been in Thailand over the past 26 years and have worked in about 15 Changwats and travelled extensively through most of the others so, like Ajarn, I do have a little knowledge which is more than I can say for the majority of the posters on this forum.

I think you have gone off subject there old chap ! or are you just trying to make the point that you are a very knowledgeable man ? being somewhere a long time doesn't necesary make you a clever chap.

To keep it off-topic for the moment.... I just completed 20 years in Chiang Mai, so can someone please tell me do I get a badge or something? Maybe a certificate?  I'd like a Crackerjack Pencil but someone said that Crackerjack isn't on TV anymore!! 

Back on topic ... 

I think Chiang Mai is so good, I'm thinking of staying.

Nothing like a topic that is off topic.

CMOH, you need at least 25 years to qualify for your 1st badge.

Any free water if you stay?

[chiangmaioldhand]

Nothing like a topic that is off topic.

CMOH, you need at least 25 years to qualify for your 1st badge.

Any free water if you stay?

I'm getting soft in my old age ....

New policy .. free water for 'old hands' (20 years or more in Thailand) but only if you bring your own glass (it's only fair - you can't expect me to clean your glass if you've spent nowt).

Sorry, back on topic - Chiang Mai's great.

Edited April 30, 2009 by chiangmaioldhand

[likite]

This is not the answer to your question but the problem with Chiang Mai is that there are too many whining expats who want everything to be perfect western style for them.

By the same token there are more than a few here who are still stuck in the past and would like to change it back to what it was 25 years ago.

[Blinky Bill]

This is not the answer to your question but the problem with Chiang Mai is that there are too many whining expats who want everything to be perfect western style for them.

By the same token there are more than a few here who are still stuck in the past and would like to change it back to what it was 25 years ago.

dam_n right......Join the revolution, let's make Chiang Mai a wangker free zone again.

[likite]

This is not the answer to your question but the problem with Chiang Mai is that there are too many whining expats who want everything to be perfect western style for them.

By the same token there are more than a few here who are still stuck in the past and would like to change it back to what it was 25 years ago.

dam_n right......Join the revolution, let's make Chiang Mai a wangker free zone again.

And you can't argue against that!

[Mapguy]

Too bad. this thread seems to have turned into a wanke_rs' meet.

[sassienie]

left the likes of phuket, pattaya, bangkok etc, and made home in chiangmai.

for me the reasons i want to leave phuket.

1] 7 yrs of living here and i'm still made to feel like a tourist[ which may very well not change anywhere in thailand, who knows.]

2] the basic infraststructure ie reliable water/ electric supply is shit. in patong living on a hill, if water levels drop in the resovoir, the water authorities just turn the pressure down, lie through there back teeth , saying water pipe broken [ all to save face] so the water wont go up the hill, so were buying trucks of lake water for 1000b a truck.with the explosion of building in phuket, which by the way is still going on, govt. is always playing catch up with these basic facilities, and in my opinion will never catch up.its an island for fuc_ks sake, build a dozen desalination plants and the water problem is resolved forever...theyve built one, and no one is really sure if its working.

3] costs, everything across the board is increasing, but service isn't improving.its so frustrating having to deal with thais, a printer i use here , ran out of ink, and eventually had to go to bangkok to supply him, printer..inks...= work, no ink = no work...i mean come on.

4] lack of international schools, truly theres only one here, and from what some people say , the kids are coming home with a real attitude, rather than a comprehensive schooling.

5] phuket itself is strewn with litter, the beaches are a disgrace, but it appears that there is no function to make sure they are kept clean, afterall people go to phuket for the sun , sea, and the other thing that begins with 's', which has escaped my mind.

tourists can go to lots of places in the world where beaces and oceans are spotless, it wont be long before that happens.

6] the attraction of phuket , unfortunately for phuket, attracts all the ' wrong ' types, not only from thailand but from europe , this has noticeably incresed over the years iv'e been hear, it seems as if the world story of phuket is, that the steets are littered with gold, similiar to dickensian days of the uk, where folk just have t go to london for fame and fortune, and unfortunately that's what phuket is all about, money, with a capital 'm', and if your a white man, your rich, having to send my wife into a establishment to get a thai price, is not what i'ts all about.

even the poxy zoo down here charges thais, 80b entry, and foreigners 400b, fortunately when i produce my thai driving liscence i get the thai price.

7] phuket could have one of the most stunning holiday resorts in the world, but with local govt. changing every 4 yrs or so, the incoming see it as their turn to make their bit, which of coure is going to be the death knell for this beautiful island.

8] and finally, although i'm sure there'll be other things ive forgotten, iv'e never really understood what 'island fever ' was, but i do now, if you dont get off this island every 4/5 months it sends you nuts.maybe i"ll never find any part of se asia, let alone thailand to be of my liking, but i do like the 'real' thais, whose warmth and generosity are second to none.

i'm not naive to think that chiangmai wont have similiar negatives, but the times i've been there , they dont seem to be as 'in ye face' as phuket. time will tell i guess, we'll give it a year, and take it from there.

my youngun is going to prem school [ albeit on a part scholarship i may add, due to his golfing talent, at the age of 4] which according to the general census, is one of the best schools in se asia.

ok guys thats it, agree/ diagree to your hearts content, one day i will find shangrila, is it near chaingrai?

Chiang Mai infrastructure is no different to the rest of Thailand.

Seems Thailand is not for you.

[getgoin]

This is not the answer to your question but the problem with Chiang Mai is that there are too many whining expats who want everything to be perfect western style for them.

By the same token there are more than a few here who are still stuck in the past and would like to change it back to what it was 25 years ago.

dam_n right......Join the revolution, let's make Chiang Mai a wangker free zone again.

Sorry to hear that you are leaving.

[JXXXL]

as a matter of interest why did you move from Phuket to Chiang mai ?

Probably related to WWII that was raging at the time.

[orang37]

... snip ... one day i will find shangrila, is it near chaingrai?

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Doppa,

I welcome you to Chiang Mai (or Chiang Rai, if that becomes your La of Shangri).

All I've learned in eleven years here (no badges, several wounds in action, some still agape) is that your experience will vary. The fact you have some economic resources (your son is going to Prem) indicates you have more choices than many. I have no experience living elsewhere in the Kingdom to even begin to offer you any thoughts. For me the choice of Chiang Mai to live in was immediate, heartfelt.

I feel it offers some of the benefits of larger city and smaller city. Libraries, some "western culture," a university; without what I saw as the dramatic downside of Bangkok (the only other alternative I considered) which was expense, pollution, traffic. Also, I grew up in the US in Florida and my family always went to the beach, and I was always bored out of my mind at the beach : for me the choice of mountains and rivers is natural.

The nature of what is a "real" Thai person is an interesting metaphysical labyrinth to get lost in, but the extent to which you encounter aggressive, "in your face," Thai people here in CM, who are out to hustle you, will very much depend on where you live, and your lifestyle.

If you live in a "farang ghetto," like some of the big condos, that's one thing. If you are renting a private house out near Prem, and your natural social milieu is educated expats with money in that area, that's another. And if you are "Pratu Thapae" zone bar-fly or night-owl, or a low-rent guest house type : another reality. If you get involved as a teacher in some Thai institution a cut above the any-farang-that-can-stutter-can-be-an-ajarn-instanter variety, another way of life may open up for you.

Even within what I call the "farang ghettoes" you will find "planets" of realities ranging from older gay guys with their boy-friends, to retired couples living here primariliy because it's cheap. Note : saying that I in no way imply these are some kind of mutually exclusive groups, or that they don't interact, or that good and nourishing friendships don't happen between ALL types of people (thank you Ur-Orang for this small mercy).

My only advice to you would be, if possible, to find temporary accomodations for the first six or eight months, then get to know the city, experience the heavy-rain-floody season, the "high tourist season," particularly the delightful Loy Krathong (Yi Peng) November lunar festival. During that time your ideas about where and how you want to live may change, and, maybe, you'll stumble across a rare opportunity like the house I rent in an old Thai neighborhood, all of whose people I find very "real."

Be your natue rather solitary (required in my case because the farang body I possess just really can't get a grip on the teachings of Ur-Orang), or highly gregarious : be you an enjoyer of hiking alone or with friends on Doi Suthep, or a highly gregarious type person most comfortable surrounded by conversations of itinerant yuppies on wi-fi in the Starbucks in the Night Bazaar ...

good luck, ~o:37;

[doppa]

left the likes of phuket, pattaya, bangkok etc, and made home in chiangmai.

for me the reasons i want to leave phuket.

1] 7 yrs of living here and i'm still made to feel like a tourist[ which may very well not change anywhere in thailand, who knows.]

2] the basic infraststructure ie reliable water/ electric supply is shit. in patong living on a hill, if water levels drop in the resovoir, the water authorities just turn the pressure down, lie through there back teeth , saying water pipe broken [ all to save face] so the water wont go up the hill, so were buying trucks of lake water for 1000b a truck.with the explosion of building in phuket, which by the way is still going on, govt. is always playing catch up with these basic facilities, and in my opinion will never catch up.its an island for fuc_ks sake, build a dozen desalination plants and the water problem is resolved forever...theyve built one, and no one is really sure if its working.

3] costs, everything across the board is increasing, but service isn't improving.its so frustrating having to deal with thais, a printer i use here , ran out of ink, and eventually had to go to bangkok to supply him, printer..inks...= work, no ink = no work...i mean come on.

4] lack of international schools, truly theres only one here, and from what some people say , the kids are coming home with a real attitude, rather than a comprehensive schooling.

5] phuket itself is strewn with litter, the beaches are a disgrace, but it appears that there is no function to make sure they are kept clean, afterall people go to phuket for the sun , sea, and the other thing that begins with 's', which has escaped my mind.

tourists can go to lots of places in the world where beaces and oceans are spotless, it wont be long before that happens.

6] the attraction of phuket , unfortunately for phuket, attracts all the ' wrong ' types, not only from thailand but from europe , this has noticeably incresed over the years iv'e been hear, it seems as if the world story of phuket is, that the steets are littered with gold, similiar to dickensian days of the uk, where folk just have t go to london for fame and fortune, and unfortunately that's what phuket is all about, money, with a capital 'm', and if your a white man, your rich, having to send my wife into a establishment to get a thai price, is not what i'ts all about.

even the poxy zoo down here charges thais, 80b entry, and foreigners 400b, fortunately when i produce my thai driving liscence i get the thai price.

7] phuket could have one of the most stunning holiday resorts in the world, but with local govt. changing every 4 yrs or so, the incoming see it as their turn to make their bit, which of coure is going to be the death knell for this beautiful island.

8] and finally, although i'm sure there'll be other things ive forgotten, iv'e never really understood what 'island fever ' was, but i do now, if you dont get off this island every 4/5 months it sends you nuts.maybe i"ll never find any part of se asia, let alone thailand to be of my liking, but i do like the 'real' thais, whose warmth and generosity are second to none.

i'm not naive to think that chiangmai wont have similiar negatives, but the times i've been there , they dont seem to be as 'in ye face' as phuket. time will tell i guess, we'll give it a year, and take it from there.

my youngun is going to prem school [ albeit on a part scholarship i may add, due to his golfing talent, at the age of 4] which according to the general census, is one of the best schools in se asia.

ok guys thats it, agree/ diagree to your hearts content, one day i will find shangrila, is it near chaingrai?

Chiang Mai infrastructure is no different to the rest of Thailand.

Seems Thailand is not for you.

well time will tell my friend, but i really cant believe that, so far on this thread, most people agree living in phuket compared to chiangmai, is a lot different and universally better, so in your opinion out of the 8 points i raised, how many apply to chiangmai.

[doppa]

... snip ... one day i will find shangrila, is it near chaingrai?

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Doppa,

I welcome you to Chiang Mai (or Chiang Rai, if that becomes your La of Shangri).

All I've learned in eleven years here (no badges, several wounds in action, some still agape) is that your experience will vary. The fact you have some economic resources (your son is going to Prem) indicates you have more choices than many. I have no experience living elsewhere in the Kingdom to even begin to offer you any thoughts. For me the choice of Chiang Mai to live in was immediate, heartfelt.

I feel it offers some of the benefits of larger city and smaller city. Libraries, some "western culture," a university; without what I saw as the dramatic downside of Bangkok (the only other alternative I considered) which was expense, pollution, traffic. Also, I grew up in the US in Florida and my family always went to the beach, and I was always bored out of my mind at the beach : for me the choice of mountains and rivers is natural.

The nature of what is a "real" Thai person is an interesting metaphysical labyrinth to get lost in, but the extent to which you encounter aggressive, "in your face," Thai people here in CM, who are out to hustle you, will very much depend on where you live, and your lifestyle.

If you live in a "farang ghetto," like some of the big condos, that's one thing. If you are renting a private house out near Prem, and your natural social milieu is educated expats with money in that area, that's another. And if you are "Pratu Thapae" zone bar-fly or night-owl, or a low-rent guest house type : another reality. If you get involved as a teacher in some Thai institution a cut above the any-farang-that-can-stutter-can-be-an-ajarn-instanter variety, another way of life may open up for you.

Even within what I call the "farang ghettoes" you will find "planets" of realities ranging from older gay guys with their boy-friends, to retired couples living here primariliy because it's cheap. Note : saying that I in no way imply these are some kind of mutually exclusive groups, or that they don't interact, or that good and nourishing friendships don't happen between ALL types of people (thank you Ur-Orang for this small mercy).

My only advice to you would be, if possible, to find temporary accomodations for the first six or eight months, then get to know the city, experience the heavy-rain-floody season, the "high tourist season," particularly the delightful Loy Krathong (Yi Peng) November lunar festival. During that time your ideas about where and how you want to live may change, and, maybe, you'll stumble across a rare opportunity like the house I rent in an old Thai neighborhood, all of whose people I find very "real."

Be your natue rather solitary (required in my case because the farang body I possess just really can't get a grip on the teachings of Ur-Orang), or highly gregarious : be you an enjoyer of hiking alone or with friends on Doi Suthep, or a highly gregarious type person most comfortable surrounded by conversations of itinerant yuppies on wi-fi in the Starbucks in the Night Bazaar ...

good luck, ~o:37;

now that is a pretty darn good explanation/ answer/ remark/statement., although i have to correct you on one point, which is the assumption because my son will be going to prem. indicates a resevoir of cash, i can assure you, it isnt, and in my original post , i did say is was ' a partial scholarship", due to his golfing talent, with the promise of , if he does well , a full scholarship will be discussed.

however, i do ok cash wise, im careful, and in a few years, will have a insurance that will mature, which will pay for all his tuituon, if necessary.

wer'e doing exactly as you recommended , by renting for a year and see how the scenario pans out, i will know myself after 6 mths whether chiangmai, and indeed thailand is for me, there is no doubt about that.

but what i cant believe, as another poster puts it, thailand is the same everywhere full stop, varieties of the same yes, but comparing life in phuket as to chiangmai is like comparing living in blackpool to aberdeen

it;s like describing that the uk is the same throughout, that there is no difference, between north and south, and that each city and its communities are basically the same, now that is just nuts to me.

your reply covers most of the positives and flaws of living in any town in the world, where good / evil exist, and thrive together, i guess it depends on your own personality, which way your life curves, myself ive always led the life of being as honest as i can possibly be, with a few hiccups along the way, and i would say that , that applies to a high % of people around the world, otherwise anarchy would rule,and we would

all be walking around with ak47's attatched to our bodies.

the times ive stayed in chiangmai, iv'e felt extremely comfortalbe, although i do realise visiting and living in a town, is ever so different, but first impressions are to me, important, and my impression of chiangmai when i visited over 4 yrs ago, was positive, and has been ever since.

but we shall see, i sincerley hope it works out, but it wont be the end of the world, it' ll be a dissapointment, but hey, who hasnt had dissapointments in life.

with my appt sale down here to be completed at the end of this month, fingers crossed, we will be up there in july.......and as some people say' time will tell'

thanks for thoughts/ advice.