3 Thais Killed, 1 Swedish Woman Injured In Shootings Near Khao San Rd

[JetsetBkk]

And "they" wonder why tourism is down

I know that it can (and does) happen everywhere but not with the frequency that it occurs in Thailand

I would like to see some statistics to back up this absurd statement. The Swedish woman wasn't even a target...she just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Actually, the fact that she was "in the wrong place at the wrong time" makes it worse - she wasn't even involved and yet she got shot.

[LawnGnome]

There are dumb asses with guns all over the world. I hope that someday, someone takes the guns away, because people will always be stupid.

[Tyke]

Instead of arguing about how dangerous or safe Thailand is, let's make a test.

How many here are now planning to leave Thailand because it's too dangerous? I bet there are not many.

Malaysia? Singapore (if affordable)?

[LawnGnome]

Instead of arguing about how dangerous or safe Thailand is, let's make a test.

How many here are now planning to leave Thailand because it's too dangerous? I bet there are not many.

Malaysia? Singapore (if affordable)?

The answer to the question "how many" is not a country name...

[JetsetBkk]

I know that there are some 63-65 million people in Thailand, but I can do my arithmetic. If there are 20,032 murders with firearms and there are 0.0800798 murders per 1,000 people, then Thailand must have ~250 million people.<snip>

/ Priceless

The Nationmaster data is wrong. (For the pedantic: the Nationmaster data are wrong )

For the "murder per capita" statistics, they have erroneously used "the number of crimes committed with a firearm" instead of "the number of murders committed with a firearm".

Your arithmetic is correct, but it is based on this bad data.

This subject previously covered several times, here's one:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thailand-Lan...t&p=1671983

Edited May 5, 2009 by JetsetBkk

[Kaojai]

they dont value life as we do and dont consider the consequences of their actions, .

Just amazing. Everything comes down to "They" and "We."

All Thais do not value life and all Farang regard the lives of others with the greatest respect.

Can someone say something this alarmingly, amazingly stupid based on some well thought out belief or is it just copied from a page in the Ku Klux Klan handbook?

It's a tragedy. People who use guns to settle their problems are idiots. Drunks with guns, drunks driving cars are especially dangerous people. The world is full of these idiots who have no regard for the lives of others.

To use this unfortunate, sad situation to further promote a platform of Thai bashing is just beyond belief. Most Thai people value all forms of life with great respect. Considering the death and destruction caused by & in the farang countries, the idea that "we" all value life so highly is ridiculous in the extreme .

[LawnGnome]

The world is full of these idiots who have no regard for the lives of others.

Ain't that the truth. Stupidity transcends borders, nationality, race, religion, or creed.

[BigSnake]

Maybe(??) an off duty policeman or army type authorize to carry the weapon, lost control with the wife, a shame but it happen all to often everywhere. RIP

[LawnGnome]

Maybe(??) an off duty policeman or army type authorize to carry the weapon, lost control with the wife, a shame but it happen all to often everywhere. RIP

Lost control of his wife? Is that from the "Taliban Matrimony Handbook"?

[Priceless]

I know that there are some 63-65 million people in Thailand, but I can do my arithmetic. If there are 20,032 murders with firearms and there are 0.0800798 murders per 1,000 people, then Thailand must have ~250 million people.<snip>

/ Priceless

The Nationmaster data is wrong. (For the pedantic: the Nationmaster data are wrong )

For the "murder per capita" statistics, they have erroneously used "the number of crimes committed with a firearm" instead of "the number of murders committed with a firearm".

Your arithmetic is correct, but it is based on this bad data.

This subject previously covered several times, here's one:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thailand-Lan...t&p=1671983

I have obviously been very bad at explaining what I meant. In actual fact, I used my arithmetic to demonstrate that the Nationmaster data must be wrong.

Another obvious problem with the Nationmaster data is that it only covers 62 countries (the UN has 192 member states). Among the missing is e.g. Brazil, a very popular tourist destination with a much higher murder rate than Thailand (see e.g.: http://www.economist.com/world/americas/di...ory_id=11975437 ).

/ Priceless

[Tyke]

Instead of arguing about how dangerous or safe Thailand is, let's make a test.

How many here are now planning to leave Thailand because it's too dangerous? I bet there are not many.

And there is anyone, I'd like to know where they're planning to move to.

Why not Malaysia? Singapore, Japan, S. Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan (if affordable)?

[Scott]

I think the point here isn't about how many people are going to leave, but the effect this has on tourism. There are a lot of single men here who aren't particularly scared off by crime rates (and obviously Thailand isn't THAT much worse than a lot of western countries). The second group consists of people married to Thai nationals. They have a 'family' of sorts and are usually provided with some sense of security and stability and are rooted here enough that they wouldn't leave unless things got much worse.

Western women and men married to non-Thai nationals and have a family might feel a little different about staying here. I think most of them work for big companies that afford them with whatever protection they need.

Tourists are a much more fickle group of people. For some the appeal of Thailand will always bring them. For others it doesn't work that way, but in these times you want the broadest base of potential tourists as possible--not quite so much the niche market.

How is the Swedish girl doing? Any updates?

[LawnGnome]

They have a 'family' of sorts and are usually provided with some sense of security and stability and are rooted here enough that they wouldn't leave unless things got much worse.

A "Family" of sorts - good to know. I always just referred to them as family. Thanks for clarifying my home situation.

[madcatlady]

This happened opposite Burger King, at one of the T-Shirt sellers, just before the corner of Khao San Rd...

I popped out to seven around nine last night and saw alot of police and a crowd gathered.... rumour last night was Thai Husband had shot his wife and kid and tourist was hit in crossfire....

Vary sad.

This is crazy! Seems that every day a tourist is killed or dies in Thailand. Making Thailand safe for foreigners, whether from Thais or from foreign gangsters, has got be a priority for this goverment. When people ask me if it is safe to travel to thailand, i have to say it is not safest place. I think travelling to Lao or Cambodia or China is probably safer than Thailand at this point.

I can't agree with you that Cambodia is safer. There are guns everywhere for sale for a few dollars. I was in Phnom Penh when an argument erupted in a busy market place between a flower seller and another local. The guy just took out a gun and shot the flower seller. All in broad daylight.

The Swedish woman was just unlucky. Hope she's doing okay now.

MCL

[imaneggspurt]

An incident on Sukhumvit just the other day, a farang pissed off a street vendor somehow, don't know if it was justified, but said vendor and his buddies then attacked the farang. He was set upon by about 5 people, kicked, punched and hit with stools and anything else to hand. He managed to break away from the melee...However, as he ran away, every other street vendor attacked him, more stools were smashed to pieces on his body. Somehow he didn't fall down, but kept on running.

Whilst the first vendor might have had some reason, none of the others could've known what the original quarrel was about, it happened too fast. I was there...but for over 150 metres every male street vendor found it necessary to attack the guy......just because.....

Moral...don't piss off a Thai.

Btw, gun ownership is very common here. I've seen plenty.

If you are ever fooled into thinking this is a safe place, prepare yourself for a fall.

RIP the 3 victims of this horrendous shooting incident. A terribly tragic story, those poor people. The guy is obviously a psycho. Removal from the gene pool is definitely a good option for him.

Well i said things along these lines and got jumped on by the thai defenders, but its utter &lt;deleted&gt; to think thais will have a fight ,lose and go and sulk and think ,oh well the best man won ,, more like get their mates and tools and kill or maim,there motto is theres safety in numbers,or carry a weapon, and they WILL use it,.,there is a lot of rose colored glasses being worn around here i feel,.

[gbt71fa]

moral to the story(?) if you see Thai people arguing, stay clear.

If it appears they're drunk and there are weapons involved, duck for cover.

However, on the other side of the coin, there are some among us who might be inclined to step in to try and rescue someone being browbeat. pedestrianus emptor.

Hope they caught the a**hole with the gun - and get him to suffer the full weight of the law.

This happened in Pattaya a few years ago, 2 brits pulled a thai off a restarant owner that was getting slapped,, he returned later with a gun and killed 2 of them, as advised elsewhere, keep out of thai arguments, they dont value life as we do and dont consider the consequences of their actions, .

Thais do value life when they are sober and calm. What's frightening are the petty things that can take that calmness away. There are violent people everywhere in the world. Thailand is probably unique in that even a sarcastic remark or a caring criticism can get you killed by people who are not even gangsters by any stretch of the imagination.

It is called "face" or "saving face". They aren't thinking beyond that.

[nickynomates]

I went to a normal Thai wedding on Saturday.

The couple getting hitched we qualified doctors.

As we walked to the brides house i thought they were letting off fire crackers.

Much to my horror 4 guys were shooting pistols into the air.

When i asked if they were police or arm i was informed no just normal guys.

Makes you think.

Sometimes intervention is justified. What if it was you getting mugged or beaten on to the point that you would probably die and I was standing there? Would you be ok with me running away? it's all about using common sense.

In this particular case the poor girl was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but she did what she thought was right when she most likely saw the woman getting attacked. Doing the right thing sometimes costs. If the swedish girl was trying to do the right thing, then she was certainly a better "man" than alot of folks that would run away.

You never cease to amaze me with your comments geriatrickid. OK so this poor Swedish girl in the prime of her life got involved in a domestic and ended up with a raw deal.

I would suggest that many people from Europe visiting Thailand for the first, second or even third time are not so aware of the terrible gun culture this country has and this girl sadly and rather naively got in the middle of the fracass.

I'm sure that if the commotion had been that serious fellow Thais would have got involved, or would they? They know to stay away, but unfortunately when you read a do's and dont's section of Thai culture in a travel guide all it tells you is not to show the soles of your feet or touch anyone on the head, not don't get involved in Thai on Thai arguements. In the west this sad story would be pretty unheard of at least on the streets, but as someone said earlier Thai have no idea of consequences when that red mist starts to cover their eyes and the blood starts to pump.

At least one good thing may come from this and that now people will start to walk away when they see trouble and just let the Thais sort it out themselves, as they generally do without involving unfortunate farangs wearing rose tinted glasses who still think this is the land of smiles.

This place is becoming more dangerous all the time, one only has to look at the armed robbery in Pattaya yesterday and see on TV three guys coming into a jewelry store with M16's blazing and no regard for public safety. Where do you buy an M16 in Pattaya, 7-11?

It will get worse too as so many people are being laid off from work, they need money to survive and if that means shooting up a store or a farang for his wallet and gold they have no fear of the consequences. Travellers be warned and be vigilant.

[brahmburgers]

"I would suggest that many people from Europe visiting Thailand for the first, second or even third time are not so aware of the terrible gun culture this country has and this girl sadly and rather naively got in the middle of the fracass."

My friends talked to people who were there and he did not have a gun in sight. Bravo to this girl for being a stand up human being.. If enough people standing around had the decency that this girl did to stop things, than that man could have been jumped in a heart beat no doubt. I've seen it done. But, I guess it wasn't their problem..

But, unfortunately when it comes to fight or flight, people fly, fly, fly away. AND, it's not only when it comes to human to human violence.

I was mauled by a monkey the other week and five people just stood there and stared as I was losing so much blood. As a human being I would have run to help. A towel, a shirt, something for f*cks sake! But, alas no, they didn't do a thing. Five people. Just staring. But, I guess it wasn't their problem.

I saw a man nearly drowning to death a few months ago. My friends and I didn't even think for a second of just standing there to stare at him and listen to his screams. We didn't think "oh what an idiot for swimming in such bad waters". No. We ran bare foot over sharp rocks and shells, and stood flat foot, linking arms, while big waves crashed onto us, to help him, while people stood and stared. But, I guess it wasn't their problem.

I walked out of a store and saw a group of people standing and staring at something. When I looked to see what they were staring at, I saw a girl who'd fallen off her motorbike still on the ground. She wasn't severely injured just scratched, cut, and crying. I was the only one to run over and help. Some people even watched it happen, but just stood and stared. But, I guess it wasn't their problem.

I'm not saying I'm a hero, I'm just shocked that so many people just don't give a sh*t. Maybe it's the way I was raised. It makes me lose faith in humanity to see that so many people have cowardly instincts.

We'll see what you people will be saying (heaven forbid) while something terrible happens to you the next time, and people just stand around and stare. Oh stupid me, I guess you'll be shouting, "Oi, don't you folks worry bout a thing now, it's just my problem. Now stare and enjoy the show courtesy of, ow, owww, ow, of me! =)

I admire the type of person who will risk their own safety in order to try and help others, particularly strangers. I'm inclined to do that, though admittedly, in Thailand, the stakes can be higher, because (as the item below mentions), they band viciously together, even when they don't know what's going on. For the herd mentality, it only matters that one of "their own" has been wronged. Same mentality in prisons, where there are blacks, whites, browns, etc, who blindly fight for their skin color - regardless of who's right or wrong.

An incident on Sukhumvit just the other day, a farang pissed off a street vendor somehow, don't know if it was justified, but said vendor and his buddies then attacked the farang. He was set upon by about 5 people, kicked, punched and hit with stools and anything else to hand. He managed to break away from the melee...However, as he ran away, every other street vendor attacked him, more stools were smashed to pieces on his body. Somehow he didn't fall down, but kept on running.

Whilst the first vendor might have had some reason, none of the others could've known what the original quarrel was about, it happened too fast. I was there...but for over 150 metres every male street vendor found it necessary to attack the guy......just because.....

Moral...don't piss off a Thai.

bizarre story. Wonder what happened to trigger it. For me, it's another reason to avoid Sukumwit. The few times I ventured down there, it always seemed a rather soulless place. Doesn't help when you hear about an entire city block there getting leveled by thugs, knocking out all the vendors' stalls, and the perpetrator gets off (indeed becomes a folk hero and politician!) because he can name names of corrupt police bosses. Glad I live hundreds of Km away. Good luck, all you farang Sukumwittites.

[Kwic]

Statistics show that Thailand is 14th in the world for murders per capita - double that of the USA and on a par with Kyrgyzstan. The death toll on the roads is one of the highest in the world, as are the pollution levels in the major cities. And you feel safe with all this building work, potholes, things falling off roofs? So if BKK is one of the safest cities in the world then it is one of selective perception, rather than reality. See:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...ders-per-capita

LoL. And I wanted to write that Poland is very safe And it's on the 20-th position? :| How come? I don't recall them saying about murders too often... heh. Good to know the statistics though.

Getting back to the topic. I pity for the killed ones and I hope that Thailand will regain it's lost popularity.

cheers

[Sabum]

what a rubbish !!!

while crime of course DOES happen in a big city such as Bangkok, it is still much safer than almost anywhere else.

I dare to say, MUCH safer than, f.e., Phuket or Pattaya, considering the number of inhabitants living at those places.

None of the people that I know in BKK (and I know quite some since moving here 6 years ago) have ever been victim of a street crime nor have seen/witnessed such thing. if a crime happens, it will be usually burglary (yeah THAT indeed happens a lot, but thats a problem anywhere in South-East-Asia).

You have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about. Unlike you I know tons of people that have been victimised or watched a crime right in front of them, from rape, to getting chopped up with a machete, torture, head smashed open and brain falling out in a busy tourist area...... the list could go on all day, many foreign victims but WAAAAAAAY more Thai victims.

[george]

Bangkok Post:

3 dead, tourist hit in Khao San shooting

BANGKOK: -- A jealous argument on Khao San Road in Bangkok on Monday turned into a tragedy when an ex-husband apparently killed his wife, her new boyfriend and his son, and wounded a Swedish tourist.

Police said the foreign woman, identified only as a tourist in her 20s by the Swedish foreign ministry in Stockholm, was being treated in hospital but would recover.

Police identified her as Karin Matiweka, 21, and said she was shot once in the back.

She was simply passing by in Khao San, world famous as a backpackers' haven, when a Thai man began an argument with a Thai woman.

According to police, the man was Suraphan Kritsampan 44, who had come to the shop of his ex-wife, Yuphadee Laphanand, 35, who ran a clothes shop on the tourist street.

Apparently jealous, the man remonstrated with the woman, but then suddenly pulled out a weapon and began firing.

He killed the woman identified as his wife. He then turned on their son, Ponkrit, 19, and the ex-wife's boyfriend, Arkhom Surotvong, 33. Arkhom died at the scene, while Ponkrit was pronounced dead on the way to hospital.

The foreign woman was apparently hit by a stray round.

Police said Suraphan, the suspected shooter, fled the scene.

-- Bangkok Post 2009-05-05

[ding]

Bangkok Post:

3 dead, tourist hit in Khao San shooting

BANGKOK: -- A jealous argument on Khao San Road in Bangkok on Monday turned into a tragedy when an ex-husband apparently killed his wife, her new boyfriend and his son, and wounded a Swedish tourist.

Police said the foreign woman, identified only as a tourist in her 20s by the Swedish foreign ministry in Stockholm, was being treated in hospital but would recover.

Police identified her as Karin Matiweka, 21, and said she was shot once in the back.

She was simply passing by in Khao San, world famous as a backpackers' haven, when a Thai man began an argument with a Thai woman.

According to police, the man was Suraphan Kritsampan 44, who had come to the shop of his ex-wife, Yuphadee Laphanand, 35, who ran a clothes shop on the tourist street.

Apparently jealous, the man remonstrated with the woman, but then suddenly pulled out a weapon and began firing.

He killed the woman identified as his wife. He then turned on their son, Ponkrit, 19, and the ex-wife's boyfriend, Arkhom Surotvong, 33. Arkhom died at the scene, while Ponkrit was pronounced dead on the way to hospital.

The foreign woman was apparently hit by a stray round.

Police said Suraphan, the suspected shooter, fled the scene.

-- Bangkok Post 2009-05-05

Not meaning to post straight from the Department of Redundancy Department, I sure hope they get this guy. There's no excuse for domestic violence, and this is exactly why.

Is there no counseling for these types, or treatment centers even, in Thailand?

[Sisaketmike]

There was a fatal shooting on Khao San Road last night.

Some guy shot and killed his girlfriend and the guy she was with. A swedish tourist was also shot.

It was just on the Thai news. Anyone got any further info?

It's a sad thing not only for the 'farlangs'. Nobody really knows what actually had happened. Let's wait to come to conclusions.....Thanks.

[xylophone]

Are some of these posts missing the point, or am I missing the point?.

There are so many pieces to the puzzle with regard to violence in Thailand, and no one seems to have covered them all, and probably nor will I, however here are a few things to consider: --

-- saving face for a Thai is everything, and they will kill to do so.

-- life is cheap and is nowhere near as valued as we seem to value it in the West.

-- you can have someone killed in Thailand for 10,000 baht.

-- if you pay the police enough, you can buy yourself off of any charge, including murder.

-- during any fracas, or accident, the westerner will be the first to be arrested (perhaps the only one to be arrested) irrespective of the cause or the outcome.

-- corruption is endemic throughout Thai society and that includes the police, especially the police.

-- on the occasions I have seen Thais fighting, there is always a group attacking one or a minority.

-- frequent murders are committed at the highest level with gunmen managing to mow down anybody who has a price on their head, for whatever reason. For example the young Canadian developer in Phuket murdered at gunpoint; the owner of the Jintana shopping complex murdered at gunpoint; the deputy leader of the PAD being shot, and so on and so on (all over the past 2 months). I refer to the comment above regarding having someone killed for 10,000 baht -- -- perhaps the high-profile folk cost a lot more.

If the above isn't enough to get you thinking, then you are seriously not of this planet.

[eggomaniac]

Based on the information, or lack of it, some Posters had the Swedish girl jumping into break up a fight and others had her minding her own business, a block away. It seems, appears, that one could guess and/or make a conjecture that the she was hit by a stray bullet and might have, could have 'possibly' not even had anything to with the fracas.

[warfie]

sorry to post on-topic but...

R.I.P. the deceased and condolences to their families, to the unfortunate bystander, get well soon, sorry this incident spoiled your vacation.

really people, apart from news updates, what else needs to be said in this thread?

[dunroaming]

There is crime all over the world but it Thailand it seems that the smallest thing can trigger a lethal response. Thai's are often compared to petulent teenagers who let a grudge grow rather than diminish with time. I can see some truth in that view.

What seems to add to the problem is that there is a very ineffective and often corrupt police force.

[sbk]

Its interesting how only a few posters have actually expressed any kind of regret over the loss of life of the Thai woman, shot by her husband, her brother or her 19 year old son. Cut down before his life can really begin.

Domestic violence is a major problem in this country, with both men and women behaving in a violent manner (think of all the duck stories) and a culture that seems to not only find it acceptable but a police force that absolutely will not get involved. Instead, this woman and her son pay with their lives.

And yes, I do feel bad for the Swedish girl who had no involvement whatsoever, but really, she certainly ended up luckier than the Thai woman or young man.

[bkkjingjoe]

Not sure if this belongs here....but I guess it does.

I was having dinner last night with my gf at a small Thai restaurant on Ekkamai.

We were sitting there and waiting for our food when the guy at the table next to us pulled out a gun and gave it to the young boy together with the car keys. The boy stood up and took the gun to the car (carrying it under his t-shirt).

I saw this and looked at the guy and he started staring at me with a look that said "you better be quiet".

I think many other guests at the restaurant saw this as well. 20 mins later the place was almost empty. Before, it was packed with over 100 people.

Scary isn't it?

I mean nothing happened. But seeing the big bottle of JW on their table, you never now what might happen. Someone says something or in a wrong tone, someone looks at his girl in a wrong way and....

My gf reckonned that he was probably a police guy off shift or even undercover. So what? I don't see any reason that a guy needs to carry his gun to the restaurant where he is having dinner with his friends and some girls.

Very strange situation! Just had a feeling that it is these kinds of situations that easily get out of control.

Just some thoughts....on what is happening here around us.

My sincere condolences as well to the families and friends who have lost their loved ones.

[george]

Update:

Thai man arrested for killing ex-wife, injuring Swedish tourist

BANGKOK: -- A Thai man was arrested Wednesday morning for allegedly shooting dead his ex-wife, his son and her brother as well as accidentally injuring a Swedish tourist Monday night.

Suraphan Kritsamphan, 44, was arrested in Chon Buri.

He killed his ex-wife while she was selling clothes at a shop on the Tanao Road near the Khao Sarn Road.

He said he killed his son after his son attacked him following the shooting of his ex-wife.

-- The Nation 2009-05-06