Have Your Feelings Towards Thaksin Changed

[ThNiner]

Via the red radio, a red who was in Pattaya that day told us that they had to rush into the resort because the blues ran back with more weapons. The reds had to run inside to avoid because the reds did not have weapons. I don't deny that some reds did not want the Summit to take place so they wanted to run inside too.

[Ricardo]

The question is flawed because the events (pattaya and riots) are symptoms of the crisis. the cause of the crisis and problems related to it is the 2006 coup.

I think the Pattaya event happened because some people set up the blues having slingshots, wooden sticks, blue small bombs which look like firecracker to attack the reds.

Without the blues, the reds might not have run into the resort.

Via the red radio, a red who was in Pattaya that day told us that they had to rush into the resort because the blues ran back with more weapons. The reds had to run inside to avoid because the reds did not have weapons. I don't deny that some reds did not want the Summit to take place so they wanted to run inside too.

I would agree that the role of the blue-shirts in Pattaya is unclear. The police, who ought to have been controlling the situation, were nowhere to be seen ... why not ?

However having watched TV-pictures of the red-shirts, as the glass broke and they streamed into the building, they appeared relaxed & cheerful, not running in fear from a threatened mass-assault. They certainly weren't setting-up to defend barricades against the blue-shirts, more acting like tourists wandering round looking at what a 5-star resort-hotel looks like !

[mauGR1]

Via the red radio, a red who was in Pattaya that day told us that they had to rush into the resort because the blues ran back with more weapons. The reds had to run inside to avoid because the reds did not have weapons. I don't deny that some reds did not want the Summit to take place so they wanted to run inside too.

I am moved to see the staunch activism of the Red supporters on this Forum,but did never come to your mind the possibility that your bosses might lie to you?

[SpoliaOpima]

I love Khun Thaksin.

Ah the truth outs. You didn't write that book by any chance ....?

[SpoliaOpima]

Yes I have, in fact I would daresay I've talked to more people in those three provinces than you have.

Very unlikely

I don't know how much longevity really counts, but I've followed the situation in some detail since 1979, and had direct experience of the region dating back before that. I'm guessing I've probably been in Thailand more years than you have, but don't want to reveal my age either.

Again very unlikely, I guess you don't know where Mig comes from.

shhhh!

Im trying to maintain that very positive impression spolia has of me. what did he say....., something about youthful exuberance and enthusiasm, or something like that

its good for my image .

so shhhhh toadie

You're probably not going to like me now, but given your allegedly advanced age, I guess I mistook naivete for youthful exuberance.

The fact that you didn't know that the army command had been replaced by police makes me rather doubtful that you know all that much about politics in S Thailand, whether it's your place of birth or not.

Thaksin was still in charge in 2004, by the way

Edited May 12, 2009 by SpoliaOpima

[HagenvonTronje]

For those of you inclined, you can see what others say as well regarding Thaksin.

AntiThaksin

i am sure that is a source of balanced information and a magazine like FOREIGN POLICY, is only a small light compared with your thaksin hate blog, but they wrote a little piece about Abhisit that sees the things a little bit different.

"The List: Five Governments That Deserve to Fail

THAILAND

The leader: Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva

Why he's got to go: Politicking when he should be governing. Aiding the poor through the downturn should be a bigger priority than scrapping with rivals.

The story: Thailand has been in a state of political turmoil since 2006, when a military coup ousted then Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Ever since, Thaksin, a wealthy businessman with strongly populist tendencies, has continued to broadcast potent political messages to his supporters in the country.

For the past month or so, up to 100,000 "red shirt" protesters who support Thaksin have rallied against Abhisit and periodically forced Bangkok to shut down. This month, protesters forced the government to call off a summit of leaders from the ASEAN trade bloc -- a tremendous embarrassment for Abhisit -- and provoked a military response that left two dead.

In all likelihood, Thaksin's Keynesian economic policies would benefit Thailand more than Abhisit's. But regardless of which man seizes power, one thing is certain: Their perpetual infighting has severely harmed the country. An Asian Development Bank economist said political turmoil may cause the economy to contract 5 percent this year, revising his estimate from 2 percent. If neither of the two men can gain control and provide peace, at least they should find a way to protect the Thai economy instead of driving away foreign investment, tourism, and assistance."

www.foreignpolicy.com

[animatic]

A bit out of date that.

And from the Catbird seat they go after Putin too.

So they have little sense of real politique, just a philosophical axe to grind.

Irrelevance personified.

[HagenvonTronje]

A bit out of date that.

And from the Catbird seat they go after Putin too.

So they have little sense of real politique, just a philosophical axe to grind.

Irrelevance personified.

yes, sure. those thaksinhate blogs much better sources of information or just don't read anything, it could disturb your wet dreams.

[bertlamar]

A bit out of date that.

And from the Catbird seat they go after Putin too.

So they have little sense of real politique, just a philosophical axe to grind.

Irrelevance personified.

yes, sure. those thaksinhate blogs much better sources of information or just don't read anything, it could disturb your wet dreams.

I think both sides are morons, but at the end of the day, red shirt supporters seem to adhere to the Bush doctrine of either I love Thaksin, or I'm a yellow shirt wearing elitist Thaksin hater.

I am unsure whether most red shirts even know about Keynes, most would not even know what a Keyne is ;-)

That said, the thing I hate about the Dems right now is precisely that they are doing much of the same idiotic policies that destroyed the Thai economy in 2004-2006 - wastful spending to reward wastful people - remember the stupid ideas like the deisel subsidies, cow and crop giveaways, other crap. Well seems like we are reliving it a bit. Getting the healthcare system actually working has been one positive, but that cannot be put on the shoulders of either side, the coup govt did that.

Where is the real education reform? The stuff poor people actually need?

Instead we have had a year of the twits like Chalerm, Samak, Banharn, Chavalit, Somchai and all the rest of this 'kit mai tum mai' generation of old school TRT politicians rooting the economy last year in preparation for the global crisis, and now we have some fairly average ideas being rolled out by the Dems. Obviously the Samak and Somchai governments were 2 of the most average PMs that Thailand has ever had with not a single good idea between them, however the Dems do have an uphill battle to deal with square face on the one hand, and the issues of a globe in recession on the other.

Wise words though. Criminals who cheat in elections and refuse to return home to face the music indeed should stop fighting and just shut the f&*k up and stay as far away as possible, so the majority with a variety of shirt colours can actually get on and do some work.

Edited May 13, 2009 by bertlamar

[HagenvonTronje]

A bit out of date that.

And from the Catbird seat they go after Putin too.

So they have little sense of real politique, just a philosophical axe to grind.

Irrelevance personified.

yes, sure. those thaksinhate blogs much better sources of information or just don't read anything, it could disturb your wet dreams.

I think both sides are morons, but at the end of the day, red shirt supporters seem to adhere to the Bush doctrine of either I love Thaksin, or I'm a yellow shirt wearing elitist Thaksin hater.

...

i think all that thaksin hate/love circus is boring.

but for thaksin hater is everybody who didn't write daily at least 5 entires how evil thaksin is, a thaksin lover. thaksin haters are much more focussed on thaksin than the reds are.

criticism on Abhisit - that must come from a thaksin lover too.

and i think that the most participants on this poll didn't gave the right answer, specially those who had answered "I am much more negative on him now"

i am sure most all of them disliked thaksin 100% allready before songkran. so no change here.

and for thaksin lovers it didn't changed it so much. can not imagine that this was something like "an eye opener" and now they understand the Dem's, having a light bulb moment. no - such thing don't happen. wishful thinking of the hater movement.

if you are not in the thaksin lover/hater club, songkran wasn't that red horror day. nothing i didn't see before at other protests.

bring the army into town was the only "new quality" here. an old tactic from the smelly garbage corner of history. not a winner moment. but it didn't changed anyhow my feelings forward thaksin.

[CrossBones]

I'd like to give him a "Liverpool Kiss"

[Ulysses G.]

i think all that thaksin hate/love circus is boring.

but for thaksin hater is everybody who didn't write daily at least 5 entires how evil thaksin is, a thaksin lover. thaksin haters are much more focussed on thaksin than the reds are.

Hear, hear!

[flying]

i think all that thaksin hate/love circus is boring.

but for thaksin hater is everybody who didn't write daily at least 5 entires how evil thaksin is, a thaksin lover. thaksin haters are much more focussed on thaksin than the reds are.

Hear, hear!

Too True Also when you said...........

criticism on Abhisit - that must come from a thaksin lover too

Slides like that share something with the current politics in the west....

[bertlamar]

if you are not in the thaksin lover/hater club, songkran wasn't that red horror day. nothing i didn't see before at other protests.

bring the army into town was the only "new quality" here. an old tactic from the smelly garbage corner of history. not a winner moment. but it didn't changed anyhow my feelings forward thaksin.

haven't felt physically unsafe walking near my house (lard prao) nor unable to drive to work (entire Vipawadee express way blocked) nor have I seen such a large number of locals in both Pattaya and also in Bangkok was frigging angry at this particular group coming in and blocking stuff previously.

Well possibly only simulatrity was the poor person mob that occupied Jatujact a few years ago during the yellow shirt period prior to the coup, but they simply destroyed the park and stank the place up rather than actually physically wandering streets looking thuggish.

But of course your experience is different no doubt.

[bungy007]

No change for me. Hated him before, hated him after. Guy's a selfish waste of space and rapidly becoming a joke.

Ditto, though I'd add the adjectives - evil and murdering

[bungy007]

I started hating him around 1996

Yes, I have also been watching him a long time. I felt he was a major creep even in the early days. I smelled a wannabe dictator.

It was pretty obvious, even back then.

I didn't get here until I had to flee Cambodian Strong Man Hung Sen's coup in Cambodia. Thus i didn't pick him up on my radar until the fiasco of the 'honest mistake'. It was then, as clear as daylight what a miscreant he is. He didn't disappoint.

[bungy007]

I would guess nobody here on this thread gets to vote.

If the Thais were allowed to vote tomorrow, Thaksin would win ... again.

It's that sticky trouble with democracy -- one poor farmer's vote carries the same weight as a privileged, blue-hair, pompous hiso. And there are a lot more farmers, thankfully, than arrogant, snooty folks. The current PM is a tool installed by another institution.

Thaksin has the mandate of the Thai people, not this knob.

No he doesn't. At the time of the coup he had already been removed as PM though held the position of 'caretaker PM'. He was subsequently barred from politics for 5 years along with the rest of his 'gang'. He now stands as a convicted felon on the run so at this point in time he cannot hold government office. QED - he cannot have the madate of the people.

[oldsparrow]

The country causes it's own fiascos, not Thaksin. They let the yellows have their way, so they had little choice with the reds. The reds were out-of-towners and had little motivation to be kind to the city (not their home). The same thing with recent clashes with vendors of pirated goods. It's a place where people really must have their way or they go completely ballistic. There is little concept of laws or law enforcement. Rules apply to 'others' not to them. Until there is strong, determined leadership, the country will continue to be a mess. Thaksin is an easy scapegoat--for god's sake, he is blamed for every problem that is, ever was or ever will be. Difficult to believe, but some people have him up there being as powerful as a god-figure. HE ISN'T EVEN HERE!

Indeed HE ISN'T EVEN HERE. Whatever the course, the participants follow the leader. This case, it's interesting that they did those thing for projector screen.

[bungy007]

I have to support him for many reasons, doesn't mean I like the man personally, although having met him, he seems pleasant and approachable.

Hopefully, he'll be the catalyst for the real change Thailand badly needs. Yet to be seen if he will be or not.

Took Pridi a while to see the light as well.

He annoys the expats that post on this site until they are blue in the face so that's an additional bonus.

I guess that probably sums up the depth of political will/insight of his supporters.

[bungy007]

jesus wept.

For all the murders Thugsin sanctioned, Jesus probably did

[spongeman]

Oh really.

I do believe this is the first thread here focused on how people's opinions have CHANGED since the recent historically dark events.

Are you talking about the Airport closure ? Must be.

My feeling on him have not changed. He is the only person that can bring economic stability to the LOS.

[Koo82]

I love Khun Thaksin.

Ah the truth outs. You didn't write that book by any chance ....?

Which book?

[Jingthing]

Oh really.

I do believe this is the first thread here focused on how people's opinions have CHANGED since the recent historically dark events.

Are you talking about the Airport closure ? Must be.

My feeling on him have not changed. He is the only person that can bring economic stability to the LOS.

Incorrect. The design of this poll is crystal clear. I don't believe you are quite as dumb as you act. The recent events refer to the redshirt attack on the Pattaya Asean summit and also Black Songkran in Bangkok (as well as the physical attacks on PM Abhisit).

So you think Thailand is doomed except for one, very corrupt, very flawed, very greedy, man. Your view is much more pessimistic than mine, which is none too rosy. Cheers!

Edited May 23, 2009 by Jingthing

[Koo82]

Khun Thaksin did not do anything to the Pattaya and Songkran in Blood.

The Pattaya violence was caused by the blues. I don't know if other countries have a set of people wearing some certain color to help keep security for a Summit. Only here. Let me guess the reason. The blues were there so if there were any thing bad, people will blame to blues or reds but will not blame police or army.

The Songkran in Bangkok started by the Emergency Decree announced when there were no violence. It was announced on 12th. The reds rushed to Interior Affairs to look for Abhisit but ThaiPbs tv said Abhisit went out of IM that time

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/option/pri...newsid=30100330

Did you see the car with several bodyguards and security around? The reds thought Abhisit was in it so they came close. How could anyone in their right mind let the reds come near Abhisit? The reds said they wanted to tell Abhisit to release Arisaman and not to announce SoE.

The car ran into the red. At least one was seen via the video

When the reds found out the persons they looked for were not there, they went back to Government House main stage, to find out that some reds were injured at IM. They walked back to look for the bodies but Democrat Secretary car ran into them. The secretary did not apologize so some reds have beaten him. This happened almost 3 hours after the first event. But what you saw on tv made you think the reds went straight there to hit cars since beginning.

In that evening (12th), tanks were seen in Bangkok streets. The shooting from 4:00am of 13th. Buses burnt. The killing at Nang Lerng. All violence happened after the SoE was announced. Now nothing has been done to those who brought gasoline trucks in, to hijacked buses to burn, to kill people. If the real reds did, they would be in jail right away.

Sondhi said at the minute 3:23 that what happened in Pattaya and Interior Ministry were in a good plan:

[Jingthing]

Khun Thaksin did not do anything to the Pattaya and Songkran in Blood.

[Ulysses G.]

I have to support him for many reasons, doesn't mean I like the man personally, although having met him, he seems pleasant and approachable.

Hopefully, he'll be the catalyst for the real change Thailand badly needs. Yet to be seen if he will be or not.

Took Pridi a while to see the light as well.

He annoys the expats that post on this site until they are blue in the face so that's an additional bonus.

I guess that probably sums up the depth of political will/insight of his supporters.

It says an awful lot about how obnoxious his detractors are too.