Chiang Mai Is Dead!

[Paagai]

Also, why did advertising in gay websites back-fire for the Queen Vic? If anything it would send out a message that they're welcome?

It was rather a false welcome though......... People go there with an expectation from where its been advertised that its a Gay bar (let's face it QUEEN vic ) Then they find that there's not a gay person in sight and most of the customers are, well how can I put it........"a tattooed Blackpool chav, struggling to stand upright" Hat tip to Texpat in another thread for that one

I stopped going to the QV a couple of years back after a some "lousy service" experiences (not becuase of any gay issue); otherwise the place wasn't too bad. But it sure did attract some punters who you wouldn't have described as gay friendly

Should stress this was under the previous management, before someone turns this into a QV versus whoever thread

[Ulysses G.]

Is it possible that they were trying to attract gays so that the skinhead customers would have someone to beat up? That is some convoluted business plan.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[chiangmaioldhand]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly does 'Gay Friendly' mean? Over the years we've had plenty of gay customers but no-one ever treated them any differently to anyone else. The staff are friendly to all customers . I imagine the fact that we don't serve Riff Raff must help.

Edited May 12, 2009 by chiangmaioldhand

[Ulysses G.]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly does 'Gay Friendly' mean? Over the years we've had plenty of gay customers but no-one ever treated them any differently to anyone else. The staff are friendly to all customers .

My guess is that you have hit on the perfect definition. Most gays don't want special treatment. They just don't want to go somewhere where they are not welcome. Am I right guys?

[PeaceBlondie]

Ulysses, as a committee of one gay man (not a she), I think you're right. Nobody wants to feel unwelcome. Many of the gay men I know have been weightlifters, ex-USMC, retired Air Force - one was a bodyguard. The only common denominator is that we like gay men.

[sassienie]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly does 'Gay Friendly' mean? Over the years we've had plenty of gay customers but no-one ever treated them any differently to anyone else. The staff are friendly to all customers . I imagine the fact that we don't serve Riff Raff must help.

I think you’re mellowing with old age.

[IanForbes]

We are all a product of our environment. It is easy to become prejudiced when surrounded by uneducated people and never leaving those surroundings. When you travel broadly and visit a variety of different cultures only the pig headed and ignorant will remain steadfast with their racism and prejudices. Having an open mind while talking reasonably with others can usually soften some of your previously hard and fast ideas. I know I've changed some of mine 180 degrees by traveling around the world. I had prejudices against certain groups until I actually met them in their world.

[popmybubble]

Also, why did advertising in gay websites back-fire for the Queen Vic? If anything it would send out a message that they're welcome?

It was rather a false welcome though......... People go there with an expectation from where its been advertised that its a Gay bar (let's face it QUEEN vic ) Then they find that there's not a gay person in sight and most of the customers are, well how can I put it........"a tattooed Blackpool chav, struggling to stand upright" Hat tip to Texpat in another thread for that one

I stopped going to the QV a couple of years back after a some "lousy service" experiences (not becuase of any gay issue); otherwise the place wasn't too bad. But it sure did attract some punters who you wouldn't have described as gay friendly

Should stress this was under the previous management, before someone turns this into a QV versus whoever thread

When I stayed there in February there were a couple of obviously gay staff... which made me think it must be 'gay friendly'. It was really quiet, I only saw a couple of people in there.

[millwall_fan]

Most bars in town are neither gay friendly nor gay unfriendly. I'm not interested in someones sexuality. If you come into my pub and are a reasonalbe guy or gal, you're welcome. Never underestimate the value of the pink baht!

[sassienie]

Most bars in town are neither gay friendly nor gay unfriendly. I'm not interested in someones sexuality. If you come into my pub and are a reasonalbe guy or gal, you're welcome. Never underestimate the value of the pink baht!

Money counteracts all prejudices.

[millwall_fan]

Quite so! Nothing terribly wrong in that IMHO!

[basinboy]

Ha! Ha! Basinboy and his memsahib certainly contributed substantially to Aprils bumper month!!

Millwall take a 1-0 lead to Elland road, my old friend!!

should be quite an interesting game!

Both on and off the pitch!!

A pint on the outcome?

Certainly Sir a pint of your finest...settlement 26th June

[BigSnake]

CM will be just fine, tourists will return in a few months or so the rain will continue to keep the Air nice and clear, yes nice quite CM. In noway dead in my humble opinion

[Paagai]

Is it possible that they were trying to attract gays so that the skinhead customers would have someone to beat up? That is some convoluted business plan.

Of course, there is a whole gay skins sub culture, perhaps some of the customers were closet members looking for new friends It often transpires the most homophobic people actually have something to hide

Just out of curiosity, what exactly does 'Gay Friendly' mean? Over the years we've had plenty of gay customers but no-one ever treated them any differently to anyone else. The staff are friendly to all customers .

My guess is that you have hit on the perfect definition. Most gays don't want special treatment. They just don't want to go somewhere where they are not welcome. Am I right guys?

UG you're right on the money with that one

Edited May 13, 2009 by Paagai

[Paagai]

Also, why did advertising in gay websites back-fire for the Queen Vic? If anything it would send out a message that they're welcome?

It was rather a false welcome though......... People go there with an expectation from where its been advertised that its a Gay bar (let's face it QUEEN vic ) Then they find that there's not a gay person in sight and most of the customers are, well how can I put it........"a tattooed Blackpool chav, struggling to stand upright" Hat tip to Texpat in another thread for that one

I stopped going to the QV a couple of years back after a some "lousy service" experiences (not becuase of any gay issue); otherwise the place wasn't too bad. But it sure did attract some punters who you wouldn't have described as gay friendly

Should stress this was under the previous management, before someone turns this into a QV versus whoever thread

When I stayed there in February there were a couple of obviously gay staff... which made me think it must be 'gay friendly'. It was really quiet, I only saw a couple of people in there.

Like I said "previous management" (Let's not go there...........) Sounds like it might be time to go back

[Ricardo]

to say the obvious, the whole of Thailand seems quiet and yet flights seem fairly full and unless you book ahead, still expensive.

Perhaps because the airlines have reduced the number of flights, as shown by the movements-stats for Swampy, in order to maintain profitable load-factors ?

[cmjantje]

Chiang Mai IS dead, the only problem is that the tuktuk and songtaew drivers did not notice it.

[catmac]

Indeed - single gay tourists to CM are a very rare breed these days, fortunately, most of the sex tourists seem to prefer BKK and Pattaya. The Night Bazzar bars are now inhabited only by the real low life sexpats who get all gays a bad name with their activities and predilections. IMHO the bulldozers can't come soon enough!

Paagai, you've been knocking the Night Bazaar bars for quite a while. At the time, I disagreed with your previous comments that amounted to an obituary for something that hadn't died at that point - though I do agree the place has now declined in "buzz" as so many places have closed. But - to say that they "are now inhabited only by the real low life sexpats who get all gays a bad name with their activities and predilections" is just plain wrong. It's also offensive to those who still go there who in no way match the label you're trying to stick on them.

Have to agree with you Steve2UK, Paagai has been hooked on this "holier than thou" nonsense for some time. Though I'm now happily settled with my 38 year old b/f (been living together for over 5 years), I remember with joy the wonderful times I had at the old Night Bazaar bars. Live and let live is my motto.

[Paagai]

Indeed - single gay tourists to CM are a very rare breed these days, fortunately, most of the sex tourists seem to prefer BKK and Pattaya. The Night Bazzar bars are now inhabited only by the real low life sexpats who get all gays a bad name with their activities and predilections. IMHO the bulldozers can't come soon enough!

Paagai, you've been knocking the Night Bazaar bars for quite a while. At the time, I disagreed with your previous comments that amounted to an obituary for something that hadn't died at that point - though I do agree the place has now declined in "buzz" as so many places have closed. But - to say that they "are now inhabited only by the real low life sexpats who get all gays a bad name with their activities and predilections" is just plain wrong. It's also offensive to those who still go there who in no way match the label you're trying to stick on them.

Have to agree with you Steve2UK, Paagai has been hooked on this "holier than thou" nonsense for some time. Though I'm now happily settled with my 38 year old b/f (been living together for over 5 years), I remember with joy the wonderful times I had at the old Night Bazaar bars. Live and let live is my motto.

Nobody ever described me as holy before I'm sure none who met me could ever form that impression

More context: there's two groups of outdoor beer bars that collectively get called the "night bazzar bars". The Peak bars clustered around the now defunct climbing wall, and the other alley behind D2 hotel (and formerly between the Peak and the Chiang Inn before it became the D2).

Catmac is absolutely right, 5 years ago the Peak bars were a blast, great fun, I have wonderful memories too Friendly Thai and Farang gay people hanging out, having a drink, a laugh and a chat with few commercial undertones. But times have changed, and these places haven't kept up, except the commercial aspects have become more prevalent. The Peak is dead, as even winniethekwaai, who I assume is neutral, has observed Many more fun places now in CM; not just my opinion, most friends from the old Peak have also voted with their feet.

To answer Steve2UK, my comments weren't aimed at the person who still goes to the Peak, if you enjoy it, fine. However, the bars behind D2 hotel are another matter. For the benefit of our straight TV members, this is the strip of bars down an alley next to Foxy Lady (Or Poxy Lady as the Katoeys call it ). Supposedly "gay bars" but several are owned by straight people and many of the staff are also not gay. Every night the place populates with young straight hilltribe boys (mainly Akha and Musser) cadging drinks off Farang old enough to be their grandfathers. I'm not going into graphic detail on TV but the following is from City Life a couple of years back which does The Other Side of the Coin - not that I entirely agree with everything in the article, but the message is clear. Citylife - maybe its time for an update.......

Steve2UK, my problem is this: whilst I'd be happy to "live and let live" as Catmac puts it, and I'm definitely 100% not a prude , not all is as it should be with these bars as we all know When ALL gay people and not just the few real purpertrators get tarred with the same brush. By frequenting these places, even innocently, gay people are implicitly condoning the activities of the minority and financially supporting venues which we'd be better off without. If you find this insulting, tough!

On a high note we've learnt from this thread that the Pink Baht is certainly not dead in Chiang Mai and we've got two new aspiring gay friendly venues in the Olde Bell and The Queen Vic to visit and enjoy Hey, Millwall Fan - how about a discount for CM Long Yang Club Members (Gay Social Club)?

Edited May 13, 2009 by Paagai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

That's an excellent post Paagai, very interesting to read about the current situation. Makes it sound a little more sad than I initially thought. Of course the same applies to 'straight' bars of the same type just the same, most of those are equally sad.

(I should stop posting drunk, I get way too mellow )

[Ulysses G.]

I'm not sure what is bothering Paagai.

He says that the bars at the Night Bazaar used to be lots of fun and an enjoyable place to go, but there was always lots of prostitution there and most of the male prostitutes in Thailand have always been straight. Nothing has changed, except a lot of gay bars have moved to other areas. What is so terrible about these bars now?

[Paagai]

I'm not sure what is bothering Paagai.

He says that the bars at the Night Bazaar used to be lots of fun and an enjoyable place to go, but there was always lots of prostitution there and most of the male prostitutes in Thailand have always been straight. Nothing has changed, except a lot of gay bars have moved to other areas. What is so terrible about these bars now?

UG, I was trying not to spell it out cos it always gets the mods upset Let's just say what bothers me is the age of some of the hilltribe boys And what bothers me is gay Farangs coming here to exploit the situation. My viewpoint is not that of a moral do-gooder but of a gay person concerned about the way preconceptions about gay people are reinforced by the behaviour of a few . For example, I really don't like my mother saying "you're living in Thailand, please tell me you're not one of those pedophiles".

You're right, nothing much has changed over a couple of years with this situation, except before the Peak had some life to offset the Sleaze down the road, now it doesn't. Also, back then the whores at the Peak were predominately gay

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Are you saying they're actually under-age? Or just that there's a big gap in age? If the former then that's more than merely a reason to not like those bars so much, that would make it very urgent and important to report this to police, or your local friendly tourist police volunteer if that's easier.

[IanForbes]

Are you saying they're actually under-age? Or just that there's a big gap in age? If the former then that's more than merely a reason to not like those bars so much, that would make it very urgent and important to report this to police, or your local friendly tourist police volunteer if that's easier.

I suspect it is the big age gap, Winnie. That somehow offends the hypocrites of the world. Although I don't frequent gay bars, it certainly is in your face in Jomptien area where I have a time share. As much as I keep hearing about the paedophilia in Thailand from other places in the world, it certainly hasn't been my observation. I would be hard pressed to find it anywhere in the open, and would have to do some serious searching in the sleezy corners of Thailand. Other places in the world are just big hypocrites and try to act like they are somehow better without truly understanding the culture in Asia. There is just as much nasty stuff of all types: drugs, theft, child prostitution, etc, going on in other places in the world but the hypocrites try to say it's not happening. The Thais seem much more open about their sexuality and there isn't the same stigma about gays or transvestites.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Ok.. Just for the record I'm not offended by any age gap. (I personally like older women.)

I was going to say that still the thought of poor hilltribe boys who are regular straight guys having few other options than to fondle creepy gay men is already distasteful enough.. But then in all honestly some of the bar women may be lesbians, which to be totally honest doesn't offend me in the same degree, so for the sake of fairness I think I should just shut up. (Cheers al 'round prolly.. )

Edited May 14, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[PeaceBlondie]

We have discussed underage sex workers over on the Gay Forum, pushing the limit of the rules. This has been a problem in SE Asia for both genders, for ages. The gender difference is that the worst shit splatters onto those gays who are 'married' to over-30-year-olds. Paagai is no saint, but he vocally criticizes the pedophiles. Steve2UK is no pedo, either.

I know a farang who's rented the same straight hill tribe boy since the kid was 18. They no longer meet at the bars mentioned above, to protect their face. One of our posters labeled those places as 'junior high' four years ago.

[Rasseru]

By golly, this thread takes some strange twists and turns! Makes one wonder where hill16 is when he's really needed!

[LeungKen]

[

Unfortunately for me, chiangmaioldhand has banned all riff raff from his café and tennis club, so that's the end of my social life in Chiang Mai. Can't even bring the kids along, he hates them as well. Was going to send the wife but she has some awful habits, picks her nose at the table and scratches her ass with the salad fork.

At first I thought ole cmoh was really mean, but now I realise he's a scouser I think I understand. Last time I visited his tennis club, was singing songs like; I'm enery the eighth I am & my old man's a dustman E wears a dustman's at.

I should have been singing, Ferry cross the Mersey & Oh Liverpool Lou, Lovely Liverpool Lou, Why don't you behave just like other girls do. And why the hel_l did I mention that I cant stand Cilla Black, should have kept my bladdy mouth shut.

Actually, I'm very fond of kids - I'm 'Papa' to all the night bazaar ragamuffins. Sreaming, uncontrollable kids I take exception to. Who doesn't?

As regards to Ferry Cross The Mersey - it really annoys me. It's a Ferry he's on. He took a 15 minute boat ride to Birkenhead and now he's singing about going back to 'this land I've always loved'!!!

I'm not so keen on 'Our Cilla' either. But then who is?

Oop, late for tennis, must dash.

Hey-Up changnaioldhand,

I hope you're not "casting nasturtiums" at beautiful Birkenhead as some of us round here follow Tranmere Rovers

signed

a "Tranny"

P.S. I hope things improve in Chang Mai and if it's any consolation it's far from booming in Phuket.

[Steve2UK]

Indeed - single gay tourists to CM are a very rare breed these days, fortunately, most of the sex tourists seem to prefer BKK and Pattaya. The Night Bazzar bars are now inhabited only by the real low life sexpats who get all gays a bad name with their activities and predilections. IMHO the bulldozers can't come soon enough!

Paagai, you've been knocking the Night Bazaar bars for quite a while. At the time, I disagreed with your previous comments that amounted to an obituary for something that hadn't died at that point - though I do agree the place has now declined in "buzz" as so many places have closed. But - to say that they "are now inhabited only by the real low life sexpats who get all gays a bad name with their activities and predilections" is just plain wrong. It's also offensive to those who still go there who in no way match the label you're trying to stick on them.

Have to agree with you Steve2UK, Paagai has been hooked on this "holier than thou" nonsense for some time. Though I'm now happily settled with my 38 year old b/f (been living together for over 5 years), I remember with joy the wonderful times I had at the old Night Bazaar bars. Live and let live is my motto.

Nobody ever described me as holy before I'm sure none who met me could ever form that impression

More context: there's two groups of outdoor beer bars that collectively get called the "night bazzar bars". The Peak bars clustered around the now defunct climbing wall, and the other alley behind D2 hotel (and formerly between the Peak and the Chiang Inn before it became the D2).

Catmac is absolutely right, 5 years ago the Peak bars were a blast, great fun, I have wonderful memories too Friendly Thai and Farang gay people hanging out, having a drink, a laugh and a chat with few commercial undertones. But times have changed, and these places haven't kept up, except the commercial aspects have become more prevalent. The Peak is dead, as even winniethekwaai, who I assume is neutral, has observed Many more fun places now in CM; not just my opinion, most friends from the old Peak have also voted with their feet.

To answer Steve2UK, my comments weren't aimed at the person who still goes to the Peak, if you enjoy it, fine. However, the bars behind D2 hotel are another matter. For the benefit of our straight TV members, this is the strip of bars down an alley next to Foxy Lady (Or Poxy Lady as the Katoeys call it ). Supposedly "gay bars" but several are owned by straight people and many of the staff are also not gay. Every night the place populates with young straight hilltribe boys (mainly Akha and Musser) cadging drinks off Farang old enough to be their grandfathers. I'm not going into graphic detail on TV but the following is from City Life a couple of years back which does The Other Side of the Coin - not that I entirely agree with everything in the article, but the message is clear. Citylife - maybe its time for an update.......

Steve2UK, my problem is this: whilst I'd be happy to "live and let live" as Catmac puts it, and I'm definitely 100% not a prude , not all is as it should be with these bars as we all know When ALL gay people and not just the few real purpertrators get tarred with the same brush. By frequenting these places, even innocently, gay people are implicitly condoning the activities of the minority and financially supporting venues which we'd be better off without. If you find this insulting, tough!

On a high note we've learnt from this thread that the Pink Baht is certainly not dead in Chiang Mai and we've got two new aspiring gay friendly venues in the Olde Bell and The Queen Vic to visit and enjoy Hey, Millwall Fan - how about a discount for CM Long Yang Club Members (Gay Social Club)?

Good that you now properly (if belatedly) differentiate between the Peak bars and the separate (about 100 metres away) D2 set of bars on the other side of the soi. AFAIK, it's only the Peak site which is due to be re-developed - i.e. "bulldozed" - and I've heard no mention of that being due to happen to the D2 alley site (correct me if you know otherwise). There is plainly a major difference in character between the two and I have seen Peak bar owners sending away the D2 "minors" if they strayed into the Peak area bars - hence my objection to your specifically tarring both with the same "predilection" brush. FWIW, I have always disliked the D2 site's character since I first became aware of it. If the remaining Peak bars were like that, I would not be a customer there.

[doppa]

sorry to hear that, was he close to you, and whens the funeral?