Why Are Irish Never On The List Of Native English Speakers In Thailand?

[Xangsamhua]

I sometimes think that it is a shame that English is called "English". After all, it is a Gremanic language which belongs as much to the Irish, Scottish and Welsh as anybody else.

You might like to look at The History of Britain Revealed: The Shocking Truth About the English Language, by Mick Harper.

The author suggests that spoken English is an indigenous language spoken since time immemorial by all inhabitants of the British Isles and Ireland except for the Celtic minorities who lived on the eastern shores.

That means the English, most of the Irish and most of the Scots were always native speakers of English.

The idea that the English we use was brought by the Anglo-Saxons who replaced some earlier form is based on written texts, as early English was not a written language.

It's meant to be a provocative book and the author has little patience with academics, who he sees mired in a paradigm rut.

[garro]

I sometimes think that it is a shame that English is called "English". After all, it is a Gremanic language which belongs as much to the Irish, Scottish and Welsh as anybody else.

You might like to look at The History of Britain Revealed: The Shocking Truth About the English Language, by Mick Harper.

The author suggests that spoken English is an indigenous language spoken since time immemorial by all inhabitants of the British Isles and Ireland except for the Celtic minorities who lived on the eastern shores.

That means the English, most of the Irish and most of the Scots were always native speakers of English.

The idea that the English we use was brought by the Anglo-Saxons who replaced some earlier form is based on written texts, as early English was not a written language.

It's meant to be a provocative book and the author has little patience with academics, who he sees mired in a paradigm rut.

That would explain how the English invaders could so easily fall into arguments about theological issues with the local inhabitants.

[Xangsamhua]

I am not being racist they have had some great playwrites like William Skakespear

That's a great joke post marsteele, until I got to the last line I thought that you were serious.

Crickey a cob who didn't let the roos spoil the billabong.

I person who can read between the lines. Yes we aussie can destroy the english language with the best of them. We must all admit tho there is one true english language and it must be taught correctly in the 1st instance

The one true English language is that which best achieves its purposes according to the context in which it's used. It could be any variety of international English (i.e. a form of English that is comprehensible to and effective with speakers of other forms of English) as long as it can be understood and is seen as appropriate in the context. I recently heard Nigerian English spoken with great effect to a multinational audience. It took a couple of minutes to get used to the accent, but after that it was very effective for the occasion.

[PeaceBlondie]

All the silly, tired arguments about British/American English are off topic, and moved to the pub. Further arguments will be deleted without comment. The moved posts are now at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Silly-Argume...39#entry2739539

Continuing garro's thread...

[PaddyThai]

Two points;

1. a lot of BBC and other UK TV and radio stations employ Irish Newsreaders or/and reporters presumably because they speak English clearly.

2. if I were a Thai learning English, I would want to learn from a native speaker from the country whose inhabitants I am most likely to need to communicate with. That may be Singapore, Malaysia or India. Ideally, perhaps, my teacher would be from one of thoses countries. Otherwise it is not very relevant whether the teacher is Irish, English, Australian etc.

[rott]

I sometimes think that it is a shame that English is called "English". After all, it is a Gremanic language which belongs as much to the Irish, Scottish and Welsh as anybody else.

Actually, for all their institutionalised anti-English/anti-British attitudes, the Irish don't do badly out of the English language. One example, many Spanish (and other similar countries) families send their children to do English language courses in Ireland rather than the U.K. bacause they prefer a Roman Catholic environment. Obviously this in no way constitutes any form of bigotry as this term can never be applied to RC's.

Apart from that your statement above is, not surprisingly, utter nonsense. Welcome back.

[rott]

This may seem trivial and petty, but it does seem to influence conditions offered when applying for jobs in Thailand. In other countries Republic of Ireland is usually listed when indicating native English speakers, but it is never listed in Thailand. Many teachers are not even aware that Ireland is a native English speaking country. In most schools where I have worked it is the western teachers who are responsible for drafting advertisements so I wonder why this omission. Is it a type of snobbery? Even South Africa is often listed despite the fact that many there do not speak English.

Why do you say that it is trivial and petty? That's my job. They should have thought about this when they wanted out of the Union, but don't worry, if they re-apply I am sure it will be looked upon favourably (with the possible exception of Mohammed Fayed).

[rethaired]

This may seem trivial and petty, but it does seem to influence conditions offered when applying for jobs in Thailand. In other countries Republic of Ireland is usually listed when indicating native English speakers, but it is never listed in Thailand. Many teachers are not even aware that Ireland is a native English speaking country. In most schools where I have worked it is the western teachers who are responsible for drafting advertisements so I wonder why this omission. Is it a type of snobbery? Even South Africa is often listed despite the fact that many there do not speak English.

Irish have a very thick accent. This might be the problem. Apparently, Canadians have the easiest accent to understand.

[garro]

This may seem trivial and petty, but it does seem to influence conditions offered when applying for jobs in Thailand. In other countries Republic of Ireland is usually listed when indicating native English speakers, but it is never listed in Thailand. Many teachers are not even aware that Ireland is a native English speaking country. In most schools where I have worked it is the western teachers who are responsible for drafting advertisements so I wonder why this omission. Is it a type of snobbery? Even South Africa is often listed despite the fact that many there do not speak English.

Irish have a very thick accent. This might be the problem. Apparently, Canadians have the easiest accent to understand.

Irish people have a variety of accents; just like every other place.

To think otherwise is just a bit of ignorance.

Irish people like Pearce Brosnan, Stuart Townsend, Gabriele Byrne (In Treatment) and many more seem to have no problem being understood.

Edited May 17, 2009 by garro

[otherstuff1957]

^ That's a very good point Garro. My Mother's parents came from Northern Ireland and had easily understandable accents. Occasionally I would hear someone with a much stronger accent and was told that the 'broader' accents were usually 'country people'.

[rott]

While many Irishmen may be difficult to understand at times, on whole, they are far more eloquent, and have more to say than any of their neighbors.

Totally agree. I blame the British colonial opressors.

Ireland was never a colony of Britain. For a long time it was part of the the United Kingdom, and prior to that it had its own parliament.

You still have a sort of ultra-literal, narrow outlook on posts Garro and no sense of irony. You are of course correct that Ireland was never a colony, but Irish Republican propagandists like to portray themselves as victims of colonialist oppression, possibly for Irish-American consumption. As regards their own parliament it has always been my understanding that Ireland was only ever a united entity when under the crown, the four provinces were never one separate nation with one parliament. If I've got that wrong I'd be interested to hear it.

[Jimjim]

I agree you don't always see Ireland and yet South Africa in the ads yet my good friend is Irish and never has a problem getting teaching jobs in Bangkok and they always realize he is a native speaker. He's a great teacher too, so...

[garro]

While many Irishmen may be difficult to understand at times, on whole, they are far more eloquent, and have more to say than any of their neighbors.

Totally agree. I blame the British colonial opressors.

Ireland was never a colony of Britain. For a long time it was part of the the United Kingdom, and prior to that it had its own parliament.

You still have a sort of ultra-literal, narrow outlook on posts Garro and no sense of irony. You are of course correct that Ireland was never a colony, but Irish Republican propagandists like to portray themselves as victims of colonialist oppression, possibly for Irish-American consumption. As regards their own parliament it has always been my understanding that Ireland was only ever a united entity when under the crown, the four provinces were never one separate nation with one parliament. If I've got that wrong I'd be interested to hear it.

Rott, I am not quite sure why you feel the need to use this thread as another vehicle for your prejudices against Irish people. You have issues with the Irish - I get it. Have a nice day. My question is to do with why Ireland is omitted from the list of counties considered native speakers in Thailand. I am interested in what is happening today and not hundreds of years ago. Thank you.

[Briggsy]

You would be very hard pressed to find a single Thai who could even start to tell you the difference between England, Great Britain, The United Kingdom and The British Isles.

I reckon over 50% would think that Ireland is part of อังกฤษ

[insideleft]

Unless you're a Northern Irish person, I'd guess that you might not want to be called an English anything ! ! !

[alant]

as the term "english" seems to represent a generic description for a group of languages that more or less understand and can therefore communicate with each other, perhaps it is time to drop any reference to nationality and work on an unified key of linguistic traits such as "color v colour" etc

england stopped teaching its kids the value of the english language long ago.

[Briggsy]

Goddamit, Radio 4 just went into Welsh. The Celts are everywhere.

Which reminds me, Ireland has its own language, Irish, of course.

Where's the tin hat emoticon. Heading for the bunkers.

[insideleft]

This may seem trivial and petty, but it does seem to influence conditions offered when applying for jobs in Thailand. In other countries Republic of Ireland is usually listed when indicating native English speakers, but it is never listed in Thailand. Many teachers are not even aware that Ireland is a native English speaking country. In most schools where I have worked it is the western teachers who are responsible for drafting advertisements so I wonder why this omission. Is it a type of snobbery? Even South Africa is often listed despite the fact that many there do not speak English.

Irish have a very thick accent. This might be the problem. Apparently, Canadians have the easiest accent to understand.

This is misanthropic misinformation - the accent from the Mansfield Park tribes in Sth Australia are the easiest English language accents to understand - well, for me in anyway.

[garro]

You would be very hard pressed to find a single Thai who could even start to tell you the difference between England, Great Britain, The United Kingdom and The British Isles.

I reckon over 50% would think that Ireland is part of อังกฤษ

That is true, but from my experience it is not the Thai staff who put these ads together. Most Thai people have never heard of the UK but that is always mentioned in the list of native speakers.

[garro]

Goddamit, Radio 4 just went into Welsh. The Celts are everywhere.

Which reminds me, Ireland has its own language, Irish, of course.

Where's the tin hat emoticon. Heading for the bunkers.

There are actually more Polish speakers in Ireland than Irish speakers.

Tagalog is also likely to soon surpass Irish with the number of fluent speakers.

[rott]

deleted oftopic debate

As it happens I do know Irish people who have taught in Thailand, so possibly the rule is not applied too strictly.

[garro]

Rott said:

As it happens I do know Irish people who have taught in Thailand, so possibly the rule is not applied too strictly.

Huh? Rule? There's a rule? What rule?

[rott]

Rott said:

As it happens I do know Irish people who have taught in Thailand, so possibly the rule is not applied too strictly.

Huh? Rule? There's a rule? What rule?

<deleted> garro you are one aggravating gi$

I was going to ask if you could get ME a teaching job, but i suppose that's out of the question.

Edited May 18, 2009 by rott

[garro]

Today is my first day of the new term back teaching, and if things continue as is, you can have my job Rott.

[PaddyThai]

Today is my first day of the new term back teaching, and if things continue as is, you can have my job Rott.

as long as you're not a Mick

[tigerboy]

Do they know where Ireland is, have they heard of it.

My experiences, at a Uni here in BKK is a big NO. A large number of them seem to have problems even saying Ireland, (the R and L thing) and they always get Iceland confused with island. So, as a pronunciation exercise I have them say "Ireland and Iceland are islands". Makes it fun when you roll the R sound in Ireland. This is followed up with a quick check of a world map to show them *where* Ireland and Iceland are actually located.

The pronounciation exercise is usually repeated when / if I hear someone say "Phuket iceland" or "Sammet iceland"...