Kasikorn Has Fallen ...... Zomg, Racism,

[JohnGotti]

Went to Kasikorn ATM and despite all the praise for them on here, it turns out they were just late implementing the 150 baht charge. Cause its there now!

I guess that is how much they respect us over there at Kasikorn. What I did was, I declined the transaction and then I repeated the process 23 times in a row, requesting a receipt of each can cancelled transaction. I just threw every piece of wasted paper in the trash. If the Thais behind me had to wait, then that also will cost Kasikorn money, which is what they deserve for being racists. That was my way of showing them my disapproval, getting even with them, and bringing the ball back to my court.

Adyhdudha (somthin like dat) orange-yellow-flemsh color, still mi-mee 150 charge.

Edited May 16, 2009 by JohnGotti

[lopburi3]

Adyhdudha (somthin like dat) orange-yellow-flemsh color, still mi-mee 150 charge.

Actually they use DCC which is based on cash rate (bad) and then take an extra up to 3%. See This Thread

[LivinginKata]

2 flaming posts have been removed..

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Went to Kasikorn ATM and despite all the praise for them on here, it turns out they were just late implementing the 150 baht charge. Cause its there now!

Adyhdudha (somthin like dat) orange-yellow-flemsh color, still mi-mee 150 charge.

I also hit Kasikorn this morning and declined the transaction when I saw the baht 150 hit.

Shifted over one machine to the yellow BAY, they were offering an exchange rate of baht 33.3, vs about 34.18 which is about what it should have been, a USD $15 hit on a b 20,000 withdrawal. I also declined this.

Mac

[Birdman]

You go to the counter at that bank and you have your cc and your passport and you change there

[Carib]

Good for you guys, just keep on declining and there is a chance that there will be some money left in the machine for me !! Thanks !!!!

[JohnGotti]

According to the thread linked, Ayudhya is not using said DCC for Visa cards. I got the 35 baht/usd rate.

[H2oDunc]

Went to Kasikorn ATM and despite all the praise for them on here, it turns out they were just late implementing the 150 baht charge. Cause its there now!

I guess that is how much they respect us over there at Kasikorn. What I did was, I declined the transaction and then I repeated the process 23 times in a row, requesting a receipt of each can cancelled transaction. I just threw every piece of wasted paper in the trash. If the Thais behind me had to wait, then that also will cost Kasikorn money, which is what they deserve for being racists. That was my way of showing them my disapproval, getting even with them, and bringing the ball back to my court.

Adyhdudha (somthin like dat) orange-yellow-flemsh color, still mi-mee 150 charge.

WOW You really showed them then heh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JohnGotti]

If everyone on this forum takes upwards of 15 minutes a day at an ATM and deliberately wastes the reciept papers, the Thais will complain to the bank and the bank will be forced into action to remove these charges which exhibit some of the worst racism since Nazi Germany...

[Xangsamhua]

If everyone on this forum takes upwards of 15 minutes a day at an ATM and deliberately wastes the reciept papers, the Thais will complain to the bank and the bank will be forced into action to remove these charges which exhibit some of the worst racism since Nazi Germany...

Or remove the farangs who are holding everyone up. Why would the bank take responsibility? This is Thailand!

PS. You might like to take a look at the nature of racism in Nazi Germany before making such a comparison. You are joking, aren't you?

[citizen33]

If everyone on this forum takes upwards of 15 minutes a day at an ATM and deliberately wastes the reciept papers, the Thais will complain to the bank and the bank will be forced into action to remove these charges which exhibit some of the worst racism since Nazi Germany...

Or remove the farangs who are holding everyone up. Why would the bank take responsibility? This is Thailand!

PS. You might like to take a look at the nature of racism in Nazi Germany before making such a comparison. You are joking, aren't you?

Perhaps you'd like to help us by spelling out the different varieties of racism? Obviously they must be quite distinct.

Edited May 16, 2009 by citizen33

[jumnien]

Presumably when an Asian uses a foreign account they are charged just as much as a Caucasian or Negro. Where is the racism?

[Soulwy]

Presumably when an Asian uses a foreign account they are charged just as much as a Caucasian or Negro. Where is the racism?

Hear hear...

I am trying hard to accept, but I keep on failing on this. The whole farang- thai price is against how I am programmed culturally. Imagine we would have a black man's price, yellow man's price and a white man's price...

Rich man's price and poor man's price would make more sense to me.

[jumnien]

To date, I've never heard of farangs paying more than Thais. Non-Thais pay more than Thais sometimes.

[Priceless]

I guess that I'll be seriously flamed for this, but here goes anyway:

Imagine that you are XYZ (Thailand) Bank PCL. You have invested a whole bunch of millions in ATMs (IBM, NCR and so on don't give them away). You have then created a communications network (probably using leased lines) to connect them with your central computers/servers. You have then connected your computers to an international network (probably again via leased lines, courtesy of CAT). You then have to regularly have your ATMs restocked with cash, serviced, eventually replaced and so on.

Up to one of your ATMs comes somebody with a foreign ATM/credit/debit card. You don't know who this person is, but with 99.999% probability s/he is not one of your customers. S/he wants to withdraw money from her/his foreign account, at the T/T rate of exchange, i.e. with the narrowest spread available.

I'll willingly admit that there is minimal incremental cost for this withdrawal. However somebody, somehow has to pay for the total cost of the system. Why should you, i.e. XYZ Bank, let your customers pay the whole cost, thereby subsidizing other banks' customers? The person with the foreign card is after all using a service that you provide, at a very considerable aggregate cost.

I am not, and have never been, in the banking business. I have however worked in a similar infrastructural business, namely telecommunications. I have on numerous occasions had to explain to customers that, although the cost for producing one extra call may be close to zero, we still had to charge for it because it utilized a system that had cost billions to build, costed billions to operate and would eventually cost billions to replace. I have no idea if there is some kind of transactional cost to an ATM withdrawal, e.g. imposed by the Visa and/or Mastercard organisations. Even without such a transactional cost, there is however an total cost for using the system that must somehow be covered. Only a suicidal business would let its own customers cover 100% of that cost, while giving it for free to other banks' customers.

Whether 150 baht is the right price level for a transaction of this kind, I don't know. If it is too high, this is probably not keeping the bankers awake at night. Remember, the card user is not their customer, they are just providing a one-off service.

/ Priceless

[samran]

I guess that I'll be seriously flamed for this, but here goes anyway:

Imagine that you are XYZ (Thailand) Bank PCL. You have invested a whole bunch of millions in ATMs (IBM, NCR and so on don't give them away). You have then created a communications network (probably using leased lines) to connect them with your central computers/servers. You have then connected your computers to an international network (probably again via leased lines, courtesy of CAT). You then have to regularly have your ATMs restocked with cash, serviced, eventually replaced and so on.

Up to one of your ATMs comes somebody with a foreign ATM/credit/debit card. You don't know who this person is, but with 99.999% probability s/he is not one of your customers. S/he wants to withdraw money from her/his foreign account, at the T/T rate of exchange, i.e. with the narrowest spread available.

I'll willingly admit that there is minimal incremental cost for this withdrawal. However somebody, somehow has to pay for the total cost of the system. Why should you, i.e. XYZ Bank, let your customers pay the whole cost, thereby subsidizing other banks' customers? The person with the foreign card is after all using a service that you provide, at a very considerable aggregate cost.

I am not, and have never been, in the banking business. I have however worked in a similar infrastructural business, namely telecommunications. I have on numerous occasions had to explain to customers that, although the cost for producing one extra call may be close to zero, we still had to charge for it because it utilized a system that had cost billions to build, costed billions to operate and would eventually cost billions to replace. I have no idea if there is some kind of transactional cost to an ATM withdrawal, e.g. imposed by the Visa and/or Mastercard organisations. Even without such a transactional cost, there is however an total cost for using the system that must somehow be covered. Only a suicidal business would let its own customers cover 100% of that cost, while giving it for free to other banks' customers.

Whether 150 baht is the right price level for a transaction of this kind, I don't know. If it is too high, this is probably not keeping the bankers awake at night. Remember, the card user is not their customer, they are just providing a one-off service.

/ Priceless

great post.

Unfortunately, the mentality is: If it wasn't for us folks, thailand would fall in a heap. And thus, we should be treated 'special'.

And so it (will) go on, and on, and on.......

we just need to combine this with dual pricing somehow, throw in some sort of 'how come thems Thai's don't give me a visa to stay forever' and we'd have one heck of a TV thread.

[jumnien]

Excellent post, Priceless. Just because you deposited 100 dollars a few years ago 10,000 miles away doesn't mean you should be able to magically demand the precise equivalent in local currency from a source you have never supported financially. The Western sense of entitlement knows no bounds.

[rgs2001uk]

To quote an answer the op gave on another thread

" please dont delude yourself into thinking you won or that you are making a difference."

Maybe time for the op to follow his own advice, how childish, do you really think the bank cares? yeah you showed them, good man thats the spirit, an attitude like that tells me you will go along way in Thailand.

[JohnGotti]

oh really?

[JohnGotti]

If everyone on this forum takes upwards of 15 minutes a day at an ATM and deliberately wastes the reciept papers, the Thais will complain to the bank and the bank will be forced into action to remove these charges which exhibit some of the worst racism since Nazi Germany...

Or remove the farangs who are holding everyone up. Why would the bank take responsibility? This is Thailand!

PS. You might like to take a look at the nature of racism in Nazi Germany before making such a comparison. You are joking, aren't you?

Perhaps you'd like to help us by spelling out the different varieties of racism? Obviously they must be quite distinct.

BINGO

[Heng]

Tony is just having another sarcastic thread day, pulling you in like puppets.

[LAZYTERRY]

If everyone on this forum takes upwards of 15 minutes a day at an ATM and deliberately wastes the reciept papers, the Thais will complain to the bank and the bank will be forced into action to remove these charges which exhibit some of the worst racism since Nazi Germany...

Or remove the farangs who are holding everyone up. Why would the bank take responsibility? This is Thailand!

PS. You might like to take a look at the nature of racism in Nazi Germany before making such a comparison. You are joking, aren't you?

Perhaps you'd like to help us by spelling out the different varieties of racism? Obviously they must be quite distinct.

BINGO

Everybody on here should write to the Thai bankers association to tell them of your disgust at the greedy charge. Also mention how much money you have in their banks, tell them that there're other banking options in thailand for savings accounts. We're talking about billions of baht we control. Let's stick together for a change! They need to know that we're not just ATM customers, they want our money in the banks or not???

[Priceless]

[...]

Everybody on here should write to the Thai bankers association to tell them of your disgust at the greedy charge. Also mention how much money you have in their banks, tell them that there're other banking options in thailand for savings accounts. We're talking about billions of baht we control. Let's stick together for a change! They need to know that we're not just ATM customers, they want our money in the banks or not???

They just might answer something like: "If you have that much money in one of our member banks, why do you use a foreign ATM card?".

/ Priceless

[LAZYTERRY]

[...]

Everybody on here should write to the Thai bankers association to tell them of your disgust at the greedy charge. Also mention how much money you have in their banks, tell them that there're other banking options in thailand for savings accounts. We're talking about billions of baht we control. Let's stick together for a change! They need to know that we're not just ATM customers, they want our money in the banks or not???

They just might answer something like: "If you have that much money in one of our member banks, why do you use a foreign ATM card?".

/ Priceless

I don't think you're making a good point there. Let's just think for one second how much money we foreigners have in the accounts, if we stick together and withdraw our cash they'll hurt. And then they'll be sorry for such a stupid question and being too greedy. People with pensions can have large savings but still take their cash from the foreign ATM cards.

[Maigo6]

How is the charge a racist policy ?

For example, a Thai National who lives overseas, has an overseas bank account comes back to Thailand, goes to an ATM with his Foreign bank card, will the charge suddenly dissapear cos he's a Thai ?

No of course it won't, he'll have to pay the charge also.

Some of you guys here are so paranoid, I'm surprised you leave the safety of your anti Thaiboogiemanthey'reallouttogetus bunkers.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Maigo6

[Briggsy]

Great post, Priceless. Intelligent and measured.

However may I add two points. Firstly, the whole reason all banks across the world introduced ATM's was to reduce costs. This is because the cost of maintaining a system of ATM's is cheaper than the costs of employing more staff.

Secondly, you have omitted the fact that almost all of the Thai banks have joined the Visa and Mastercard global networks. Surely they would have or should have negotiated a share of the profits that these companies make by their spreads.

Even if I withdraw the maximum I can (15,000 a day) I still have to pay 150 Baht to the Thai bank for the privilege of using their ATM. That's 1%. That's too high. I also pay just under 1% to Visa as a result of their spread and from 1 June I will pay 1% to Nationwide to cover their costs. So I will lose 3% of my money. Too much.

I have a plan in place to stop using my UK card(s) in Thai ATM's.

[JUDAS]

Heng has hit the nail on the head. Entertaining though...

[LAZYTERRY]

How is the charge a racist policy ?

For example, a Thai National who lives overseas, has an overseas bank account comes back to Thailand, goes to an ATM with his Foreign bank card, will the charge suddenly dissapear cos he's a Thai ?

No of course it won't, he'll have to pay the charge also.

Some of you guys here are so paranoid, I'm surprised you leave the safety of your anti Thaiboogiemanthey'reallouttogetus bunkers.

How is this anti Thai? grow up! You must be one of those farangs who thinks that he's Thai and must defend everything in Thailand. You even love the bankers, sorry but the rest of us think your bankers are being greedy.

[Tingnongnoi]

Heng has hit the nail on the head. Entertaining though...

and plenty still falling for it

[Priceless]

Great post, Priceless. Intelligent and measured.

However may I add two points. Firstly, the whole reason all banks across the world introduced ATM's was to reduce costs. This is because the cost of maintaining a system of ATM's is cheaper than the costs of employing more staff.

Secondly, you have omitted the fact that almost all of the Thai banks have joined the Visa and Mastercard global networks. Surely they would have or should have negotiated a share of the profits that these companies make by their spreads.

Even if I withdraw the maximum I can (15,000 a day) I still have to pay 150 Baht to the Thai bank for the privilege of using their ATM. That's 1%. That's too high. I also pay just under 1% to Visa as a result of their spread and from 1 June I will pay 1% to Nationwide to cover their costs. So I will lose 3% of my money. Too much.

I have a plan in place to stop using my UK card(s) in Thai ATM's.

You are right in that banks worldwide introduced ATMs to reduce their costs for providing service to their customers. However, providing that service to other banks' customers is an altogether different kettle of fish. For this I think they are entitled to enough revenue to cover their costs and provide a reasonable profit.

I have never been in the banking business, so I don't know about the contracts between banks and Visa and/or Mastercard. However, if Nationwide need 1% to cover their costs, it seems unlikely that the "just under 1%" that Visa charge would be enough to cover their costs and that of the Thai bank. Trying to identify the different cost elements, it appears to me that Nationwide's costs are probably the lowest of the three involved parties. This is just a guess, though.

The main thing remains though: Very, very few of the people using foreign cards in Thai ATMs will be customers of that, or any other, Thai bank. Consequently it makes perfect business sense for the Thai banks to charge for that service.

/ Priceless

PS I think you are very sensible in making plans for not using your UK card(s) in Thai ATMs. I set up a scheme like that before I even moved here.