Kasikorn Has Fallen ...... Zomg, Racism,

[Priceless]

...

Whether 150 baht is the right price level for a transaction of this kind, I don't know. If it is too high, this is probably not keeping the bankers awake at night. Remember, the card user is not their customer, they are just providing a one-off service.

In that case they should charge the 150 Baht for all cards that use their system including local cards that are not issued by the bank itself.

They charge 20 baht for withdrawals using Thai ATM cards from local banks other than their own and have done so for years.

This is for out of region withdrawals including their own cards. e.g. hold an SCB account in Chiang Mai and use your SCB card at an SCB ATM in Phattalung and you'll be charged 20 Baht.

The charge for using another bank's card in an ATM is 5 Baht. (Quite a difference from 150 Baht, wouldn't you say?). In addition this only applies to withdrawals above 4 per month. e.g. Hold an SCB account in Chiang Mai and use your SCB card at the Bangkok Bank ATM next to your apartment 5 times within one month and you'll be charged 5 Baht.

It's hard to avoid the conclusion this smacks of double pricing which crops up fairly regularly in Thailand. Having said that, the OP seems somewhat unhinged.

I don't hold a card with every bank in Thailand, and I haven't tried every ATM machine in Thailand so I haven't tried every combination, but my personal experience is:

- When I use my card with an ATM belonging to another bank, I am charged 20 baht whether I'm within my own province or not. Just looked it up, last time I was charged 25 baht by Bangkok Bank, I'm with Siam Commercial:

- When I use my card with an ATM belonging to the issuing bank, I am charged 20 baht whenever I am outside my own province.

I'm afraid that you got your facts twisted, or that the rules vary with different combinations of banks.

/ Priceless

[lopburi3]

I suspect that 25 baht is a money transfer fee. There is no fee using an ATM POOL machine up to four times each month to obtain cash (and both BBL and SCB are ATM Pool members).

[Briggsy]

Priceless

I have not got my facts twisted. In order to work out why on earth you are charged 20 or 25 Baht by your bank, we need some more details. Where is your account officially located? Which bank is it? What ATM's are you using?

I often use my SCB card and am never charged because my account is at a Bangkok branch and I use it in Bangkok at SCB ATM's.

[samran]

Saddens me how so many farangs can give 5million house to their bargirl but yet they cant setup a 200baht wire transfers of their funds to a thai bank to avoid daily atm charges..

i mean CMON.

Farang keeneao?

rational thought process have long vanished......and a lack of understanding of the concept of "inelasticty of demand". They'll whinge, but they'll stay, and pay.

[Briggsy]

Saddens me how so many farangs can give 5million house to their bargirl but yet they cant setup a 200baht wire transfers of their funds to a thai bank to avoid daily atm charges..

i mean CMON.

Farang keeneao?

rational thought process have long vanished......and a lack of understanding of the concept of "inelasticty of demand". They'll whinge, but they'll stay, and pay.

Please expand further on the concept of inelasticity of demand. I don't quite get it but I like the sound of it.

[Tafia]

Racist may not be quite the right word but Thailand is getting increasing out of step with other countries. In the last year I have used my UK Nationwide Visa card in Canada, Turkey, Italy, France and Belgium and don't recall one ATM charge. As regards what an earlier poster said about the UK bank charges dwarfing the Thai charge, NW up until now haven't made an overseas charge at all. Some UK ATMs run by private operators in premium locations do charge about GBP £1.50 or £2.00 per transaction., but this does not apply to the vast majority of British ATMs owned by banks The Thai £3.00 is significantly higher in a country where salaries and most costs are lower. To the best of my knowledge the user of a Thai ATM card in the UK does not face a locally-levied ATM charge (just the charges of their own bank). The UK banks would be investigated by the OFT if their got together to fix a standard charge as a cartel. As it happens I have a Thai bank account and ATM card but it doesn't solve the problem of getting sterling into Thailand. That has to be done from the other end. Obviously there are options which many are no doubt investigating, but the good old NW Flexaccount has been hard to beat up until now.

They will charge 1% from 1st June

[Briggsy]

Racist may not be quite the right word but Thailand is getting increasing out of step with other countries. In the last year I have used my UK Nationwide Visa card in Canada, Turkey, Italy, France and Belgium and don't recall one ATM charge. As regards what an earlier poster said about the UK bank charges dwarfing the Thai charge, NW up until now haven't made an overseas charge at all. Some UK ATMs run by private operators in premium locations do charge about GBP £1.50 or £2.00 per transaction., but this does not apply to the vast majority of British ATMs owned by banks The Thai £3.00 is significantly higher in a country where salaries and most costs are lower. To the best of my knowledge the user of a Thai ATM card in the UK does not face a locally-levied ATM charge (just the charges of their own bank). The UK banks would be investigated by the OFT if their got together to fix a standard charge as a cartel. As it happens I have a Thai bank account and ATM card but it doesn't solve the problem of getting sterling into Thailand. That has to be done from the other end. Obviously there are options which many are no doubt investigating, but the good old NW Flexaccount has been hard to beat up until now.

They will charge 1% from 1st June

Another poster comparing an apple to a banana.

The NW 1% charge is a charge from an issuing bank i.e. the bank that issues the card and gets charged by Visa.

The Thai banks are simply charging for using their ATM's, nothing more.

Please do not obfuscate the issue here. If you do not know what you are talking about, it is best to say nothing, Tafia

Edited May 17, 2009 by Briggsy

[Tafia]

I'm primarily thinking of the next cheapest way to withdraw cash in Thailand from the UK several times per month. Thousands of ex pats are probably thinking along the same lines.

If Nationwide visa debits aren't so cheap, is there now a better method? bank transfers of £300 a time pick up the rubbish UK conversion rate, charges both ends. FOREX better but still UK exchange rates. UK ATM the same.

Any Thai banks that aren't charging the 150 baht but accept the N'wide cards?

Government Savings Bank & Ayudhaya.

Swift Transfer from NW is £20. When applying ask to send in £ Stirling and have the exchange done here = better rate

[Briggsy]

I'm primarily thinking of the next cheapest way to withdraw cash in Thailand from the UK several times per month. Thousands of ex pats are probably thinking along the same lines.

If Nationwide visa debits aren't so cheap, is there now a better method? bank transfers of £300 a time pick up the rubbish UK conversion rate, charges both ends. FOREX better but still UK exchange rates. UK ATM the same.

Any Thai banks that aren't charging the 150 baht but accept the N'wide cards?

Government Savings Bank & Ayudhaya.

Swift Transfer from NW is £20. When applying ask to send in £ Stirling and have the exchange done here = better rate

The Ayudhaya has begun to charge the 150 Baht, I'm afraid. GSB still good.

For after 1 June, you might like to go with an Abbey Zero credit card which will beat the Nationwide and hoping the GSB still holds out against the charge, it is and will remain to be an extremely cost-efficient way of transferring cash.

If you go back to the UK often, then bring cash and exchange at Super Rich. Make sure you bring £50 notes.

[Tafia]

Racist may not be quite the right word but Thailand is getting increasing out of step with other countries. In the last year I have used my UK Nationwide Visa card in Canada, Turkey, Italy, France and Belgium and don't recall one ATM charge. As regards what an earlier poster said about the UK bank charges dwarfing the Thai charge, NW up until now haven't made an overseas charge at all. Some UK ATMs run by private operators in premium locations do charge about GBP £1.50 or £2.00 per transaction., but this does not apply to the vast majority of British ATMs owned by banks The Thai £3.00 is significantly higher in a country where salaries and most costs are lower. To the best of my knowledge the user of a Thai ATM card in the UK does not face a locally-levied ATM charge (just the charges of their own bank). The UK banks would be investigated by the OFT if their got together to fix a standard charge as a cartel. As it happens I have a Thai bank account and ATM card but it doesn't solve the problem of getting sterling into Thailand. That has to be done from the other end. Obviously there are options which many are no doubt investigating, but the good old NW Flexaccount has been hard to beat up until now.

They will charge 1% from 1st June

Another poster comparing an apple to a banana.

The NW 1% charge is a charge from an issuing bank i.e. the bank that issues the card and gets charged by Visa.

The Thai banks are simply charging for using their ATM's, nothing more.

Please do not obfuscate the issue here. If you do not know what you are talking about, it is best to say nothing, Tafia

I think you have misread my post -

I do know what I'm talking about I was simply pointing out to the person on the post who had stated NW were Free.

I responded that NW will be charging from 1st June. It is Visa who charge the 1%, when it was 0.84% NW was picking up the charge for its customers and as from June these will be passed on.

I appreciate that it is the charge for using their machines; I do not complain about the charge as I use Swift to my Thai account, use my Thai banks card and do not pay 150 B charge.

[Briggsy]

Thank you for the clarification.

The thread here is about ATM charges levied on holders of foreign cards, 99% of whom are foreigners, versus holders of Thai bank cards, 98% of whom are Thais and whether the disproportionate charges are linked to Thai racist double-pricing attitudes.

Citizen33, the poster that you quoted, makes some excellent and pertinent points on the matter.

[Xangsamhua]

If everyone on this forum takes upwards of 15 minutes a day at an ATM and deliberately wastes the reciept papers, the Thais will complain to the bank and the bank will be forced into action to remove these charges which exhibit some of the worst racism since Nazi Germany...

Or remove the farangs who are holding everyone up. Why would the bank take responsibility? This is Thailand!

PS. You might like to take a look at the nature of racism in Nazi Germany before making such a comparison. You are joking, aren't you?

Perhaps you'd like to help us by spelling out the different varieties of racism? Obviously they must be quite distinct.

BINGO

During the Nazi regime the Jews lost their rights to work, to conduct business, to lead a normal life and, eventually they lost their lives. And you are comparing that to a 150 baht bank charge!!

[Pakboong]

I have always been very critical of double pricing or what I believe to be practices based upon race, religion, nationality, ect...

But while I may believe banks everywhere in the world are starting to get a little crazy with the fees they are charging, I don't find anything racist about this policy.

They are charging a fee for using a card drawn from a foreign bank. The same rule applies to people of all religions, races, sexes and nationalities, so nothing racist about it.

It just seems like banks the world over have foud a way to make money off of people who are not their customers. I can't say for certain, but I believed this policy started in the west (US I think) and it seems the rest of the banks around the world seem to think it is a good idea.

-------------------------

The problem I have is that it seems that everyone is charging a fee

Bank in the US charges 5 bucks

Mastercard charges 1%

Thai Bank Charges 150 thb

So it is starting to get quite significant and all of these charges all started only in the last few years, so it seems like rather than covering their costs, banks are just profiteering.

Given the increase in volume of international transactions and improvements in technology cost per transaction should be less than 10 years ago, but they are now charging more per transaction.

But that is a completely different issue than the one raised by the OP

In other words, these fees mirror the world wild economic crisis, hmmmmm.

[Priceless]

I suspect that 25 baht is a money transfer fee. There is no fee using an ATM POOL machine up to four times each month to obtain cash (and both BBL and SCB are ATM Pool members).

Could you please explain the "money transfer fee". I never have it imposed when I use a SCB ATM but always when i use an ATM belonging to another bank. Incidentally, I bank with SCB in the old town of Chiang Mai and in this case used a BBL ATM in the Central Airport Plaza, i.e. the bank branch office and the ATM are not only in the same province but in the same amphur, ~2.1 km apart. (Incidentally, I have never used other than SCB ATMs more than four times in a month, since the SCB ATMs are all over the place.)

/ Priceless

[Priceless]

Priceless

I have not got my facts twisted. In order to work out why on earth you are charged 20 or 25 Baht by your bank, we need some more details. Where is your account officially located? Which bank is it? What ATM's are you using?

I often use my SCB card and am never charged because my account is at a Bangkok branch and I use it in Bangkok at SCB ATM's.

See my previous post. I am never charged for using my SCB card in Chiang Mai, either.

/ Priceless

[Priceless]

I'm primarily thinking of the next cheapest way to withdraw cash in Thailand from the UK several times per month. Thousands of ex pats are probably thinking along the same lines.

If Nationwide visa debits aren't so cheap, is there now a better method? bank transfers of £300 a time pick up the rubbish UK conversion rate, charges both ends. FOREX better but still UK exchange rates. UK ATM the same.

Any Thai banks that aren't charging the 150 baht but accept the N'wide cards?

Government Savings Bank & Ayudhaya.

Swift Transfer from NW is £20. When applying ask to send in £ Stirling and have the exchange done here = better rate

It appears to me that all those people complaining about the 150 baht ATM fee, should rather be complaining about their home country banks' exorbitant transfer fees. My (Swedish) bank charges me 3.35 GBP when I transfer money (SEK) into my Thai bank, using my regular internet banking. (There's a government-imposed limit of ~8,500 GBP per 24-hour period, i.e. per transaction.)

I recall other posters claiming that US banks charge 40-60 USD for the same service

/ Priceless

[Oberkommando]

Strange to see the apologists wringing their hands on this one.

Banks are the World's most insidious institutions yet they perceive valid criticism of a 150thb charge to be a slant on the Thais or Thailand.

Quite bizarre.

[lopburi3]

I suspect that 25 baht is a money transfer fee. There is no fee using an ATM POOL machine up to four times each month to obtain cash (and both BBL and SCB are ATM Pool members).

Could you please explain the "money transfer fee". I never have it imposed when I use a SCB ATM but always when i use an ATM belonging to another bank. Incidentally, I bank with SCB in the old town of Chiang Mai and in this case used a BBL ATM in the Central Airport Plaza, i.e. the bank branch office and the ATM are not only in the same province but in the same amphur, ~2.1 km apart. (Incidentally, I have never used other than SCB ATMs more than four times in a month, since the SCB ATMs are all over the place.)

/ Priceless

Transfer Fees

[Mali1964]

I suspect that 25 baht is a money transfer fee. There is no fee using an ATM POOL machine up to four times each month to obtain cash (and both BBL and SCB are ATM Pool members).

Could you please explain the "money transfer fee". I never have it imposed when I use a SCB ATM but always when i use an ATM belonging to another bank. Incidentally, I bank with SCB in the old town of Chiang Mai and in this case used a BBL ATM in the Central Airport Plaza, i.e. the bank branch office and the ATM are not only in the same province but in the same amphur, ~2.1 km apart. (Incidentally, I have never used other than SCB ATMs more than four times in a month, since the SCB ATMs are all over the place.)

/ Priceless

We opened a account with Thanachart a few months ago & in the welcome pack was photo's of 3 Banks ATM's that they share fee free in province ATM'S with, all others including Bangkok bank wherever they are charge 20/25 baht so i'd suggest you contact your Thai banks to find out which banks their in bed with for the free use of ATM's.

This same thing happened in the UK 20 years ago i was with Barclay's & could use Lloyd's bank & i think Bank of Scotland but all others were around £1.50 charge this of course as now ended in the UK.

[Priceless]

I suspect that 25 baht is a money transfer fee. There is no fee using an ATM POOL machine up to four times each month to obtain cash (and both BBL and SCB are ATM Pool members).

Could you please explain the "money transfer fee". I never have it imposed when I use a SCB ATM but always when i use an ATM belonging to another bank. Incidentally, I bank with SCB in the old town of Chiang Mai and in this case used a BBL ATM in the Central Airport Plaza, i.e. the bank branch office and the ATM are not only in the same province but in the same amphur, ~2.1 km apart. (Incidentally, I have never used other than SCB ATMs more than four times in a month, since the SCB ATMs are all over the place.)

/ Priceless

Transfer Fees

I see, they're not charging me for using another bank's debit card in their ATM, they're charging me for transferring the money from the other bank so that they can pay it out through their ATM

/ Priceless

[Briggsy]

Priceless

So are these charges transfer fees and not ATM usage fees? I don't understand why you are being charged.

[Mali1964]

Priceless

So are these charges transfer fees and not ATM usage fees? I don't understand why you are being charged.

All Thai banks charge for transfers to other accounts even across the same bank they are saying a ATM withdrawal is just the same just the method of receipt is different.

[Priceless]

Priceless

So are these charges transfer fees and not ATM usage fees? I don't understand why you are being charged.

My impression is that they are ATM usage fees, though possibly under another name. If you look at the snippet from my statement that I posted above, it says "FE", which means fee, and "ATM", which means ATM. I think what I have always thought, there is no such thing as a free ATM withdrawal from an account with another bank. These fees vary, however, with BBL charging 25 baht up to 10,000 baht and 35 baht up to 30,000 baht. Most banks seem to charge 20 baht up to a maximum withdrawal of 20,000 baht. Almost all banks now appear to charge 150 baht for withdrawals from foreign banks (which obviously entail greater costs than domestic withdrawals).

BTW, there are no free lunches, either

/ Priceless

[jfchandler]

fyi, I made a fee-free ATM withdrawal today from the Government Savings Bank ATM at the Asoke BTS station (the ATM is located on the 2nd floor platform on the way toward the escalator down to the MRT station).

The GSB ATM was happy to take my U.S. VISA debit card. However, the GSB machine would NOT accept my U.S. MasterCard logo debit card.

Separately, I tried to use the same U.S. MasterCard logo debit card at a UOB Bank ATM, and it likewise was not accepted. (The card itself is fine, I used to use it all the time at Bangkok Bank, Siam Commer Bank and others, before they began charging the 150 baht fees).

[Emeritus]

I see, they're not charging me for using another bank's debit card in their ATM, they're charging me for transferring the money from the other bank so that they can pay it out through their ATM

No. The transfer fee has nothing to do with an ATM withdrawal of money. For example, you owe John Doe 7,000 Baht. You go to an ATM machine, put in your ATM card, and transfer the 7,000 Baht from your bank account to the bank account of John Doe. For this transaction, Bangkok Bank debits you 25 Baht.

If John Doe later uses his ATM card to withdraw some or all of that money from his account this will be another transaction and incur no fee for your account.

[lopburi3]

I can say for a fact that there is no fee for use of an ATM Pool machine (most banks) here in Bangkok. I use my Bangkok Bank card in other machines on a regular basis - take out 20k in cash and that is all that is removed from my account. Only if I exceed four transactions in a one month period is a charge of 5 baht made.

[Mali1964]

I see, they're not charging me for using another bank's debit card in their ATM, they're charging me for transferring the money from the other bank so that they can pay it out through their ATM

No. The transfer fee has nothing to do with an ATM withdrawal of money. For example, you owe John Doe 7,000 Baht. You go to an ATM machine, put in your ATM card, and transfer the 7,000 Baht from your bank account to the bank account of John Doe. For this transaction, Bangkok Bank debits you 25 Baht.

If John Doe later uses his ATM card to withdraw some or all of that money from his account this will be another transaction and incur no fee for your account.

No the ATM transfer fee is that you are John Doe you bank with say SCB 5km's away (same province) you decide to use Bangkok bank ATM whom request the transfer from your SCB account SCB then charge you 20/35 baht for the transfer to yourself at the Bangkok ATM simple really

[scorecard]

[...]

Everybody on here should write to the Thai bankers association to tell them of your disgust at the greedy charge. Also mention how much money you have in their banks, tell them that there're other banking options in thailand for savings accounts. We're talking about billions of baht we control. Let's stick together for a change! They need to know that we're not just ATM customers, they want our money in the banks or not???

They just might answer something like: "If you have that much money in one of our member banks, why do you use a foreign ATM card?".

/ Priceless

I don't think you're making a good point there. Let's just think for one second how much money we foreigners have in the accounts, if we stick together and withdraw our cash they'll hurt. And then they'll be sorry for such a stupid question and being too greedy. People with pensions can have large savings but still take their cash from the foreign ATM cards.

Well, I dont think your making a good point. You seriously believe that the total funds deposited in Thai banks by farang is enormous. I suggest you think again on this. The total number of farang living here is not really that many, and many are not all that rich.

This thinking reminds me of the various times I've heard farang suggest that almost every family in Essan is supported by a farang in some way. This is just ridiculous.

Get real please.

[Kan Win]

Get a Thai bank account and atm card ! end of story....

<------- avatar Banked with them for many a year now since leaving 'Bankok Bank".

Kan Win

[Mali1964]

I can say for a fact that there is no fee for use of an ATM Pool machine (most banks) here in Bangkok. I use my Bangkok Bank card in other machines on a regular basis - take out 20k in cash and that is all that is removed from my account. Only if I exceed four transactions in a one month period is a charge of 5 baht made.

Its definitely different in Issarn, Bangkok bank charge me a fee if i use say Thanachart ATM around the corner.