All The Silly Old Arguments, Brit/american English

[otherstuff1957]

A few years ago a Thai English teacher asked me to check a paper she was writing for a Graduate School class. I asked her if she was supposed to use British English or American English. She just looked at me with a surprised look on her face and said "There's a difference?". I told here that the differences were mostly in spelling, plus some differences in pronunciation and usage, and asked her if her teacher was American or British/Aussie/Kiwi/Jamaican or whatever. She knew that he was a Farang, but wasn't sure which variety of Farang he was. I then asked her if he spoke like me or more like Teacher Andy. She replied,"But you and Andy speak just the same."

Andy is from Devonshire and I am from California, but the differences in our speech were not noticeable to this woman who actually spoke English fairly well.

[marsteele]

Well just think if the vote would have gone the other way, then the Americans would have been speaking German.

I am British, and a teacher, when I teach English I make it a point to tell my students the differences between the two.

Remember we teach English, and there are two dialects - American and British.

Also 96% of the American Population speaks English

but 98% of the UK Population speak English.

what vote?

if it wasnt for the Americans the French and English would be speaking german , no?

Anyways who cares, there are plenty of Americans that speak poor English, and a equal ammount of English that cant speak their own language correctly.

What is those quote?? The rest of the world had been fighting in the war for 5 years the yanks only came in when the germans were down. like putting the boots in when the poor bugger is already on the mat.

[bungy007]

Well just think if the vote would have gone the other way, then the Americans would have been speaking German.

I am British, and a teacher, when I teach English I make it a point to tell my students the differences between the two.

Remember we teach English, and there are two dialects - American and British.

Also 96% of the American Population speaks English

but 98% of the UK Population speak English.

what vote?

if it wasnt for the Americans the French and English would be speaking german , no?

Anyways who cares, there are plenty of Americans that speak poor English, and a equal ammount of English that cant speak their own language correctly.

Certainly, if it wasn't for the British the French would be speaking German As for the Americans -better late than never, I suppose.

As for the differences between the two languages, I recall someone said something about two similar cutlures divided by a common language. There are a number of issues why this is so. Firstly, vocab - boot v trunk, for example. Secondly, taking nouns and turning them into verbs. Americans changed the use of 'impact' to make sentences such as 'The corrupt election process which saw George W. Bush become the President of the USA impacted negatively on both stability in the Middle East and the world's view on Americans in general.' Sorry Tex - just winding you up, mate. Then of course, there is pronunciation: Americans don't pronounce the letter 't' if it is in the middle of a word. Thus, sentence is pronounced 'senence' and the internet is pronounced 'innernet'.

The differences go on and on... They are two different languages which have a lot in common. Old/educated money goes for British English - new money goes American. However, I think this may change given that it takes two years to complete a masters degree in the states but only a year in the UK. Now that prices in the UK are substantially cheaper (cost of living), we may see a shift from even the new money.

[PeaceBlondie]

An Australian professor of English thought I was British. Texans can hear remnants of my Northern Indiana radio voice. In a group from Chicago, I lose my Texas drawl within minutes.

One language with two major dialects, neither one better than the other.

[koheesti]

A few thoughts from my English teaching days in Russia & Estonia...

* The locals I met had mostly been taught British English with British textbooks listening to British audio tapes but still came out sounding more American. One older teacher in St Petersburg took pleasure telling me how much better British English was compared to American. You should have seen her face when I told her that while that may be true, she spoke with an American accent. In fact, the only locals in the region I met who spoke with a British accent where ones who actually lived in England.

* When students asked if it was better to use the American or British variant I would advise them that if they didn't know the nationality of the person they were talking to then to use the British variant. Not because it was better, but because Americans think British is cute (more so proper Queen's English I should add) and the Brits will whine if they hear American.

* One summer I taught with a partner, Jodi, an English friend from Southhampton. That way we could offer both American or British to companies. We had one potential new client, a tourist agency. My partner was busy so I had to go speak with her. I was warned that she preferred British English and hated American. During the meeting I told her that I was informed she didn't want American English and she replied that "Oh, your accent is fine, but Jodi's is difficult to understand". Oh, I took great pleasure letting him know that.

* I used to joke with Jodi that there is a difference between accents and speech impediments. With an accent, letters can sound differently. With a speech impediment, you can add sounds places where they aren't. For example, the English add the "R" sound to the end of words like "AmericR", "pastR". Funny, when it is there they rarely say it. Like in Boston, "Pawk the caw" means "Park the car".

Speaking of the mysterious R, modern British English is linked closely with uneducated, hillbilly language in America today. They insert the R sound in words like ideaR instead of idea. WaRshington instead of Washington. Hillbillies & Brits also use the verb to fetch when talking about people while the rest of America uses it for dogs, "Fetch! Good boy!". This isn't meant to be insulting. The American hillbillies are direct descendants of the English settlers. That's where all the American whiskey comes from (yes, that's spelled with an "e").

Personally, if I had a kid over here it wouldn't be important if they were taught British or American English. What would be important is how well their teacher spoke their own language. If the Brit sounds like Hugh Grant, great. If he sounds Cockney or has one of the multitude of marble-mouth English dialects I won't let him near my kid - unless he wants to teach him how to kick a ball. The same goes if it's an American teacher. The teacher had better not have a thick southern or sound like they are from da 'hood or da Bronx. Thank God I don't have worry about it.

[koheesti]

Then of course, there is pronunciation: Americans don't pronounce the letter 't' if it is in the middle of a word. Thus, sentence is pronounced 'senence' and the internet is pronounced 'innernet'.

I catch myself saying "twenny" instead of "twenty". Drives me nuts.

As for vocabulary, I used to have a British-American-Russia dictionary. Which of the following is used in America?

drapes or curtains?

couch or sofa?

trousers or pants?

If you answered "both", you are correct. Do they use both in the UK? Besides slang, I think the only real vocabulary differences are related to automobiles. My favorite is the dual carriage way.

[TerryTibbs]

More importantly one should be concentrating on teaching the next generation some basic Geography and common knowledge, it seems some what lacking in the American education system. American English or proper English is one thing, not knowing what the currency of the United Kingdom is or how many sides of a triangle there are is another.

[Jim's_a_Thai_Fox]

Just my two half pennies worth: I love all the various accents from around the world, I have no issues with the Yanks.... EXCEPT for the pronunciation of the word "water". For some reason, the 'd' sound instead of the 't' really 'grinds my gears' (to quote my hero Peter Griffin)...

biggup yourselves wherever you're from,

(Oh, and we, the brits, say "Herbs"...coz there's a fukcing 'h' in it )

[tb86]

Here is the British version....

People all over the world are stupid,

[koheesti]

Here is the British version....

People all over the world are stupid,

And it doesn't take a genius to figure out that these videos don't include the many people who answered correctly. Then again, maybe it does.

[PeaceBlondie]

Although Oxbridge textbook publishers still have an edge in Thailand, American seems to be the preferred dialect here in schools here. Teachers have to know all the vocab and speak without accent in class.

[koheesti]

Although Oxbridge textbook publishers still have an edge in Thailand, American seems to be the preferred dialect here in schools here. Teachers have to know all the vocab and speak without accent in class.

Without accent? You mean without a Thai accent? Or without one of the many Brit or American accents?

[Texpat]

Overused Brit words that make me want to slap them:

a bit

quite

brilliant

lovely

time (as in 30 minutes time)

of age (as in 40 years of age)

sorted

hammer, nail, head

I often wonder how many time larger the US vocabulary is compared to the Brits. It often seems as if they're merely parroting the same worn out phrases every day. Very rarely an original turn of phrase.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Texpat

[PoorSucker]

What is this thread about???

I believe it's about tomatoes, how to slice them.

No No, It's about tomatos.

[PoorSucker]

Thais like to speak American English but write in British English.

[Jingthing]

What is this thread about???

Its the Seinfeld thread. About bupkis.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Jingthing

[TerryTibbs]

Overused Yank words that make me want to slap them:

Gee

Ma

Pa

Awesome

Whatever

Mall

Vacation

SOCCER!!!!!!!!

Candy

Rad

Sneakers

[Texpat]

Soccer?

I believe the correct term is kickball.

[koheesti]

Overused Yank words that make me want to slap them:

Gee

Ma

Pa

Awesome

Whatever

Mall

Vacation

SOCCER!!!!!!!!

Candy

Rad

Sneakers

It says a lot when most Brits don't even know that the word "soccer" originated in England in the late 19th century.

Edited May 17, 2009 by koheesti

[Jingthing]

The use of gee is on the decline, and rad is very passe. Ma and Pa sound like Hillbilly speak to me. I can't imagine where you got the idea that was common US usage. I trust this is sorted now. Cheers.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Jingthing

[njpski]

I note with dismay numerous attempts to decry certain nationalities modification of the English language.

Gentleman and ladies, it behooves you to spell names correctly, to spell occupations correctly and to use acceptable grammar when pointing out the perceived errors of others' ways.

When complaining of the dropping or inclusion of the letter "u", one should spell the rest of the word accurately, viz. post re "nieghbour" (sic).

There is blame on both sides.

[koheesti]

There is blame on both sides.

I disagree. It's all England's fault. Just kidding. Seriously, there is no blame to pass around. English is a living language and all these variations we've been discussing are natural as all living languages are in a constant state of change. Still, it's fun to take the piss/to tease each other about it.

EDIT - Actually, it IS England's fault. If they had stayed on the island instead of trying to coloniZe the world their language wouldn't have so many dialects across the globe.

Edited May 18, 2009 by koheesti

[njpski]

There is blame on both sides.

I disagree. It's all England's fault. Just kidding. Seriously, there is no blame to pass around. English is a living language and all these variations we've been discussing are natural as all living languages are in a constant state of change. Still, it's fun to take the piss/to tease each other about it.

EDIT - Actually, it IS England's fault. If they had stayed on the island instead of trying to coloniZe the world their language wouldn't have so many dialects across the globe.

It would be remiss of me not to respond to the subtle use of the letter "Z" - how do I pronounce the word that contains it - col-on-easy or col-oni-zed

[Jingthing]

England lost its empire. I suppose its only natural that the English cling to the pitiful notion that England owns the English language. They don't. Next ...

[Samuian]

The vast majority of Americans if they sat an english exam outside of America they would fail. They have no concept of the english language.

But they've got MS Word where you can chose to correct in xx different versions of "english"!

Regarding this "Problem", here a some comments from the Wikipedia:

A version of the language almost universally agreed upon by educated English speakers around the world is called formal written English. It takes virtually the same form regardless of where it is written, in contrast to spoken English, which differs significantly between dialects, accents, and varieties of slang, colloquial and regional expressions. Local variations in the formal written version of the language are quite limited, being restricted largely to the spelling differences between British and American English.

Source:

Dialects are linguistic varieties which differ in pronunciation, vocabulary and grammar from each other and from Standard English (which is itself a dialect).

Source:

Not to forget that "english English" has word origins in the french language, danish, dutch, italian..

The Wikipedia explains further that:

English is a West Germanic language that originated from the Anglo-Frisian and Lower Saxon dialects brought to Britain by Germanic settlers and Roman auxiliary troops from various parts of what is now northwest Germany and the northern Netherlands

Before the Anglo-Saxons arrived in England the native population spoke Brythonic, a Celtic language. Although the most significant changes in dialect occurred after the Norman invasion of 1066, the language retained its name and the pre-Norman invasion dialect is now known as Old English.

That would be some 35 years AFTER the reign of King <deleted>!

So nothing really special about "the English language"!

Much later, some 500 Years William Shakespeare refined english

and some 800 years later Bernhard Shaw come up with the

Shaw Alphabet

how f.E. one could spell FISH...and it would read: Ghoti

Ghoti is a constructed example word used to illustrate irregularities in English spelling. It is pronounced /fɪʃ/, just like fish:

* gh, /f/ as in laugh, /læf, læːf, laːf/;

* o, /ɪ/ as in women, /ˈwɪmɪn, ˈwɪmən/; and

* ti, /ʃ/ as in nation, /ˈneɪʃən/.

Just a thought or 2!

what makes

too, too and two a 2?

or an Ale a beverage and a whale a fish?

And Ale isn't English it's Danish from Øl, so is beverage....old french bevrage , roman beve, bevande, latinbibere

ahhh, well... but this is how it is....nothing really special, really!

The people who speak English as a 2nd language - they certainly should know that these are the facts!

and, and, and....

Even there is an "Oxford English" taught and spoken (by few) it all comes down to the "formal written English" and if color is written colour - it still doesn't really makes a difference in pronunciation in and certainly no difference in it's very meaning!

Edited May 18, 2009 by Samuian

[Jungian]

Then of course, there is pronunciation: Americans don't pronounce the letter 't' if it is in the middle of a word. Thus, sentence is pronounced 'senence' and the internet is pronounced 'innernet'.

I catch myself saying "twenny" instead of "twenty". Drives me nuts.

As for vocabulary, I used to have a British-American-Russia dictionary. Which of the following is used in America?

drapes or curtains?

couch or sofa?

trousers or pants?

If you answered "both", you are correct. Do they use both in the UK? Besides slang, I think the only real vocabulary differences are related to automobiles. My favorite is the dual carriage way.

I think it really depends where you are from in the USA. If

you are from one of the original "colonial" states chances are you

have a better grip on British English, in some cases we can sound almost

Canadian (not the hoser verity eh). Dropping the "T" is a regional

thing in the North Eastern States people tend to change "th" to

"d" for example "dis and dat or da other ding" but I think

most people would agree that is just plain lazy. In Pennsylvania people with

the exception of Harrisburg which tends to have a more southern accent,

Philadelphia which has a cross between an uneducated New Jersey accent and a

New York City accent and Pittsburg which has an accent all of it's own. There

is a large German influence in the language including the slang we use and

German expressions that are used in everyday conversation, as a large part of

Pennsylvania was settled by the Germans. After so many hundreds of years the

German is no longer pure and hardly coherent to someone from Germany and we

call it Pennsylvania Dutch which was changed from Pennsylvania Deutsch during

WW II as no one wanted to be associated with the Germans.

As far as the lingo:

drapes, curtains or window coverings are all fine

couch, sofa or Chesterfield is fine

trousers, pants or slacks are anything other than Jeans

which can also be called dungarees

Sweater or jumper

Stockings, nylons, pantyhose or tights can all mean the same

thing or can be different variations on the same type of thing.

In general we drop the "U" and spell

"colour", "color" however we spell "born" ,

"borne" as far as the pronunciation

of "been" that is up to the users discretion it can be pronounced

"bean" or "bin" no one notices the difference.

[Tyke]

had some consultants out from scotland to support a job 10 years back.............. poor thai's could not understand a word he said.

Nee Bother ! (ended up not paying the bill from UK head office who assured me they spoke clear english before coming out )

Yea, my Thai partner works at an international school and tells me neither he nor the kids can understand anything the Scottish English teacher says. When I was a student in Glasgow in the sixties, it was emphasised in no uncertain terms that the Scots speak the purest English. It was at a time the Scots were flushed with SNP success for the first time. Other bullshit I had to contend with was how their economy could be run on oil and whisky, how their education system was the envy of the English, their fish 'n chips the best in the world, like their horrid lager that always seem to taste of formaldehyde, how James Watt invented the steam engine, Baird the TV etc etc. It's fortunate that foreigners can't understand a word they say (unless u are trying to learn English from them!)

[ivowatson]

Just changed language from American to British English after hearing the word "Afghanistan" on CNN and BBC.

[thelogictheorist]

Excuse me, maybe I can help. I speak Jive.

[spacefruit]

That is just like saying your thai is better that that os a thai. My son had an American english teacher pulled him away from the american real fast so did a number of other parents he was soon dismissed from the school as he was teaching the american version and not correct english.

Would you like to try that again?

Never mind.

Speaking like you've got a mouthful of marbles does nobody any favors. I'll take Obama's diction over Brown's any day.

Gordon Brown is Scottish, and most English people would love to shovel a load of marbles in his mouth.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good sweeping generalization.