United States Navy To Build New Training Facility In Thailand

[bonobo]

Here is another thread about Thais serving in the German army:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Soldier...19-t249472.html

[khundon]

A shame for Thailand to support a country which starts wars all the time and murders civilians.

Not long time ago there was an article in the german press about a guy tortured in an secret US jail in Thailand. They tested on him new strategies to torture people

Yes, that torture stuff sounds bad. As we are a democracy, we kicked out the torture guys and are doing our best to stop using torture. Keep in touch and remember who liberated Europe from the Nazis and Asia from the Japanese, ha ha ha.

Just you remember the Yanks were not alone in that fight, despite what your film industry like to depict.

John Wayne did not win the war, he didn't even fight in it.

Ho ho Ho

[Jingthing]

That is very true. Thank you Russkies.

[h90]

A shame for Thailand to support a country which starts wars all the time and murders civilians.

Not long time ago there was an article in the german press about a guy tortured in an secret US jail in Thailand. They tested on him new strategies to torture people

You are intitled to you opinion. I recall that immediately after that article that is was debunked by both the Thai and Us governments. The Thai facility referred to has nothing to do with US on detention. I think if you are current of false claims it will help better formulate your opinion.

Regards,

how can you know that it has nothing to do with SECRET jails?

[Texpat]

Yes, that torture stuff sounds bad. As we are a democracy, we kicked out the torture guys and are doing our best to stop using torture.

KSM and the boys are thrilled to be at Club Gitmo.

Imagine if they were sent to Morocco, the Philippines, Mexico, Rahway or Fulsom.

Yeah, Gitmo's all-u-can-eat halal buffet fattened these boys up nicely.

What does any of this have to do with the US Navy in Lopburi?

You think they're building a new prison? Maybe I can get a job. Think of all the stimulus it would provide.

[khundon]

That is very true. Thank you Russkies.

Don't forget the gays of many nations and Audie Murphy

Edited May 20, 2009 by khundon

[Jingthing]

That is very true. Thank you Russkies.

Don't forget the gays of many nations and Audie Murphy

Don't know Murphy but it is true in WW2 the US greatly relaxed its rules about homosexuals.

[oldsparrow]

Audie Murphy, the most decorated GI. His 5'5" frame prevented him to join the Marine so he went to the Army, fought the German and got 2 Congressional Medals of Honor. Once he grap the German MG42 machine gun, raid more German stronghold and captured many more POW. There is his manument holding the MG42. He went to Hollywood and became more famous. I saw one of his act in cowboy film. There is story that a cocky Hollywood ninja challenge him for revolver fast draw, he said with boring voice, "I really don't mind but let's used real guns." Also story that the guy sometimes had battle flashback, woke up during the night and shot bedroom wall with 1911 pistol.

[bonobo]

Audie Murphy, the most decorated GI. His 5'5" frame prevented him to join the Marine so he went to the Army, fought the German and got 2 Congressional Medals of Honor. Once he grap the German MG42 machine gun, raid more German stronghold and captured many more POW. There is his manument holding the MG42. He went to Hollywood and became more famous. I saw one of his act in cowboy film. There is story that a cocky Hollywood ninja challenge him for revolver fast draw, he said with boring voice, "I really don't mind but let's used real guns." Also story that the guy sometimes had battle flashback, woke up during the night and shot bedroom wall with 1911 pistol.

 Oldsparrow, you continue to amaze me.  You have a wealth of interesting information about Thailand, which I guess can be expected.  But now you are giving history lessons on US soldiers!  

People of my generation and older know Audie Murphy well.  The Audie Murphy Story was a big movie which was regularly shown on television (he starred as himself in the movie).  Men like Murphy, Boyington, Doolittle, Young, Bong, Basilone--these names resonated within the US population.  Nowadays, well, we don't really seem to have military heros.  Our heros are Spiderman, Peyton Manning, and George Clooney.  Seems a little sad to me.

Edited May 21, 2009 by bonobo

[oldsparrow]

Thank you krub! I like reading military and some history. On holiday I visited Aberdeen Proving Ground in MD, U boat in Chicago, USS Massachusette in Fall River, MD. There were also USS Joseph Kennedy (name after the eldest son who got killed in radio control bomber operation) American Submarine and PT boat, Arlington Cemestery (JFK flame, Omar N. Bradley grave etc.) and some museums somewhere else. Stephen Ambrose tour or ohter of the kind is the next plan.

Yes, harder time brings harder man. My apology to the Brits but I think the UK heron are also Mr. Potter, Mr. Bond, SAS writer and Mr. Beckham.

[bonobo]

Thank you krub! I like reading military and some history. On holiday I visited Aberdeen Proving Ground in MD, U boat in Chicago, USS Massachusette in Fall River, MD. There were also USS Joseph Kennedy (name after the eldest son who got killed in radio control bomber operation) American Submarine and PT boat, Arlington Cemestery (JFK flame, Omar N. Bradley grave etc.) and some museums somewhere else. Stephen Ambrose tour or ohter of the kind is the next plan.

Yes, harder time brings harder man. My apology to the Brits but I think the UK heron are also Mr. Potter, Mr. Bond, SAS writer and Mr. Beckham.

Actually, I had orginally written Beckham's name down, but as I was writing about American war heros, I edited my post to switch it to Peyton Manning to keep the US theme going.

An aside about Joseph Kennedy, Jr.--his father was grooming him to run for office and eventually run for president, and his father evidently pushed him to take on more and more dangerous missions so he could be decorated as a war hero.  Whe he died, Joseph senior was devastated.  It was only an afterthought that John Kennedy was also in the war, and when he earned a Navy Cross in the Pacific, Joseph senior's political aspirations for his family were revived, and, of course, John eventually did make it to the White House.

[oldsparrow]

deleted (double post)

Edited May 21, 2009 by oldsparrow

[oldsparrow]

Yes I know this, from personal information my grand dad fought the French in Indochina with the Japanese (To get back the Thai colonial territory) in WWII which we call "The Great Eastern War" สงครามมหาเอเซียบูรพา That's why I post I think we can manage this. Of course the American action can not be decided FIRST on interest of foreign countries. American's global role is selective to benefit USA, some got benefit too. It's not because USA is all good but sometimes it suits us for our survival. When the Japanese came we did fight for less than half a day and of course turn back to the west. For our theater, bad consequences on some, it could also be Thailand, but so far Thailand has ride with that quite well. It's the risk to take. It had also been Thai's own act to support KR in order to oppose VN Cambodia. We passed China weapon to KR a lot too. Collaboration it was for the perceived survival of Thailand, at least from the consideration of that time. However, there were also some point on up and down of Communist insurgent in SEA supported by China that was the reflection of the American involvement in the region. I wrote dissertation for MA at the U. of Nottingham on "Sino-American relation and conflict in Indochina 1964-75"

Good answer. Interesting too. I will read into that "Great Eastern War". I don't know much about it. ขอบคุณมากนะครับ

You're welcome krub. I am glad to share the local perspective. There is another book on Thai cadets in German school before WWI

นักเรียนนายร้อยไทยในเยอรมันยุคไกเซอร์ by สรศัลย์ แพ่งสภา (son of one cadet)

Not as well written but also interesting. One of future Thai PM was classmate of Goring and Tojo. Another Thai cadet punch out Goring front tooth, Goring took some fun in soaking his socks and the Thai cadet could not dress in time. After taking power the Reich Marshal wrote to his old Thai friend asking if he was interesting in sending a son to German Military school? He would take care of the arrangement.

During WWI there was pressure to join the German. Then the Germany was nicer for Thais, never came to threat territory and many Army officers went to German schools. However, King Rama VI was Sandhurst and Oxford graduate. Prince Chumporn, King Rama V's son, founder of Modern Thai Navy also went to Brit Navel School. So we joined the Triple Entente in 1917 and sent some thousands to the western front.

[oldsparrow]

Thank you krub! I like reading military and some history. On holiday I visited Aberdeen Proving Ground in MD, U boat in Chicago, USS Massachusette in Fall River, MD. There were also USS Joseph Kennedy (name after the eldest son who got killed in radio control bomber operation) American Submarine and PT boat, Arlington Cemestery (JFK flame, Omar N. Bradley grave etc.) and some museums somewhere else. Stephen Ambrose tour or ohter of the kind is the next plan. Yes, harder time brings harder man. My apology to the Brits but I think the UK heron are also Mr. Potter, Mr. Bond, SAS writer and Mr. Beckham.

Actually, I had orginally written Beckham's name down, but as I was writing about American war heros, I edited my post to switch it to Peyton Manning to keep the US theme going. An aside about Joseph Kennedy, Jr.--his father was grooming him to run for office and eventually run for president, and his father evidently pushed him to take on more and more dangerous missions so he could be decorated as a war hero. Whe he died, Joseph senior was devastated. It was only an afterthought that John Kennedy was also in the war, and when he earned a Navy Cross in the Pacific, Joseph senior's political aspirations for his family were revived, and, of course, John eventually did make it to the White House.

Thanks. Uhm, the clever businessman was also the pusher. As far as I read, JFK was a good thorough thinker. Like that when he recommended the book The Guns of August.

[bonobo]

 

Thanks. Uhm, the clever businessman was also the pusher. As far as I read, JFK was a good thorough thinker. Like that when he recommended the book The Guns of August.

Yep, Joseph Sr made most of his money through dodgy channels.  He probably was a bootlegger, and for sure he made tons of money through insider stock trading and stock pools (althought those were not specifically illegal at the time.)

He made alot more money later on through a movie studio deal and real estate, but the bootlegger rumors are the ones which have stuck to the Kennedy name.

[soic]

America for all her imperfections still have the most to offer; because the root end of the deal still leaves a country with their freedom and independance.

Please we walk in trash the place & leave it.... is what we do. We suck up the resources making an excuse to go in there first. We destabilize & capitalize that is what we do & we sadly do it well.

We kill & claim terrorism while sucking oil out the back door.

You my friend are speaking from absolute ignorance and believing the media that reports what they want you to believe. I AM IN IRAQ... you haven't seen the schools, the sport centers, hospitals, parks, power plants, water treatment plants and other things that the Americans have built for the Iraqis. I have....

Sucking out the oil... utter nonsense. America has NEVER imported, bought, stolen or taken one drop of Iraqi oil and sent it or used it in the United States. We have helped them rebuild their wells and petrolium producing plants, time and again after terrorists have damaged them. We did actually tell them to start selling their oil and start paying for some of their own expenses... finally. It got to the point where our soldiers would finish building a park or something and then the Iraqis would come in, take it apart and put it back together and then say that they built it; just to take the credit. Once again, I've SEEN that with my own eyes... Giving these people something to call their own has made the largest number of them grateful and happy. Before we came here, they didn't own anything... Saddam had it all. Now they have what is theirs and what they work for. They're a proud people... they're a good people. Speak from knowledge not propaganda.

America's fault is for changing the battle ground to the media, popular opinion

Your confused & trust me I am no liberal. But what you describe is American Patriots speaking up. Sorry we have been busy having our a$ taxed to hel_l & back so did not take notice of many evils our ...elected? officials have been dumping on the world. We are hoping to get them straight soon enough.

If torture and atrocities were compared "tit for tat", America's atrocities are but a slap Thinking like this is beyond the beyond ...

Once again... you speak from news coverage... I've seen and been to Abu Grab. The things that were done to those prisoners pale in comparison to the things that have been done to our soldiers and american contractors here. I have video that would give you the shakes everytime you thought of it. Granted, what was done to the prisoners was wrong, I don't condone it. Embarrassment, shame and a discomfort doesn't compare with what happened to our people though. Have you ever heard screaming coming from an open throat as it's being cut with a dull machete? I have... you'll never forget the sound... EVER. That's a video that I saw... they sent it to show how powerful they were.

Believing the media and repeating it as the gospel is the ultimate ignorance. Everyone thinks what they want about the war and believes what ever news agency they want to believe. No one knows all of the stuff they found here, and no one will ever report it all. There's too much at stake politically to tell the truth from either point of view. I'm just sorry that the real world doesn't fit into the nice little square box that you think it does. The television is the LAST place that you should ever draw a political point of view from. Just literally ask yourself... "why are they telling me this?" everytime you watch a news cast. That alone can help you think a little bit.

It breeds ignorance.............like this & then calls it *Right*

[bonobo]

America for all her imperfections still have the most to offer; because the root end of the deal still leaves a country with their freedom and independance.

Please we walk in trash the place & leave it.... is what we do. We suck up the resources making an excuse to go in there first. We destabilize & capitalize that is what we do & we sadly do it well.

We kill & claim terrorism while sucking oil out the back door.

You my friend are speaking from absolute ignorance and believing the media that reports what they want you to believe. I AM IN IRAQ... you haven't seen the schools, the sport centers, hospitals, parks, power plants, water treatment plants and other things that the Americans have built for the Iraqis. I have....

Sucking out the oil... utter nonsense. America has NEVER imported, bought, stolen or taken one drop of Iraqi oil and sent it or used it in the United States. We have helped them rebuild their wells and petrolium producing plants, time and again after terrorists have damaged them. We did actually tell them to start selling their oil and start paying for some of their own expenses... finally. It got to the point where our soldiers would finish building a park or something and then the Iraqis would come in, take it apart and put it back together and then say that they built it; just to take the credit. Once again, I've SEEN that with my own eyes... Giving these people something to call their own has made the largest number of them grateful and happy. Before we came here, they didn't own anything... Saddam had it all. Now they have what is theirs and what they work for. They're a proud people... they're a good people. Speak from knowledge not propaganda.

America's fault is for changing the battle ground to the media, popular opinion

Your confused & trust me I am no liberal. But what you describe is American Patriots speaking up. Sorry we have been busy having our a$ taxed to hel_l & back so did not take notice of many evils our ...elected? officials have been dumping on the world. We are hoping to get them straight soon enough.

If torture and atrocities were compared "tit for tat", America's atrocities are but a slap Thinking like this is beyond the beyond ...

Once again... you speak from news coverage... I've seen and been to Abu Grab. The things that were done to those prisoners pale in comparison to the things that have been done to our soldiers and american contractors here. I have video that would give you the shakes everytime you thought of it. Granted, what was done to the prisoners was wrong, I don't condone it. Embarrassment, shame and a discomfort doesn't compare with what happened to our people though. Have you ever heard screaming coming from an open throat as it's being cut with a dull machete? I have... you'll never forget the sound... EVER. That's a video that I saw... they sent it to show how powerful they were.

Believing the media and repeating it as the gospel is the ultimate ignorance. Everyone thinks what they want about the war and believes what ever news agency they want to believe. No one knows all of the stuff they found here, and no one will ever report it all. There's too much at stake politically to tell the truth from either point of view. I'm just sorry that the real world doesn't fit into the nice little square box that you think it does. The television is the LAST place that you should ever draw a political point of view from. Just literally ask yourself... "why are they telling me this?" everytime you watch a news cast. That alone can help you think a little bit.

It breeds ignorance.............like this & then calls it *Right*

Good, direct to the point post.

[flying]

. Have you ever heard screaming coming from an open throat as it's being cut with a dull machete? I have... you'll never forget the sound... EVER.

Believing the media and repeating it as the gospel is the ultimate ignorance. Everyone thinks what they want about the war and believes what ever news agency they want to believe. No one knows all of the stuff they found here,

I do not want to go round & round with you but let me say a few things...

1) You claim folks get it all from Media...You assume your the only one to ever go to foreign soil to fight ?? Are you in a war.....A real declared war? You suppose perhaps others have been? Maybe before you were born? Or you think perhaps a stint of duty in a policing action gives you all the answers? You know Saddam's history with the USA?

2) If you want to claim folks ignorant for getting any info outside of physically being there.... do not then go & use the example for yourself.....

Where you there when you heard the screams? Did you feel the dull machete blade at the beheading?

Well looks like you heard it the same way I did eh? They call that Media.But trust me I rarely watch TV nor do I believe much of what I see on it when I do watch it.

3) You will never convince anyone with a brain that torture is acceptable because someone else did it first or more vigorously. I am sad to say you are probably a boy...You are someones Son & you have been programmed at a time that the military is a shadow of what it was meant to be. I imagine that you are more than likely a National Guard part time soldier.

I hope for your parents sake you get home safe.

Good Luck

Edited May 22, 2009 by flying

[Thongkorn]

I bumped into some of Americas finest , when i was in the Jungle last year, I was on holiday they were training, all i got was , you mad limey bar stuard, that was near Rannong, there is an old Airport opposite a Thai military base, so whats new.

[LooseCannon]

A shame for Thailand to support a country which starts wars all the time and murders civilians.

Not long time ago there was an article in the german press about a guy tortured in an secret US jail in Thailand. They tested on him new strategies to torture people

You are intitled to you opinion. I recall that immediately after that article that is was debunked by both the Thai and Us governments. The Thai facility referred to has nothing to do with US on detention. I think if you are current of false claims it will help better formulate your opinion.

Regards,

They 'debunked'? Not much debunking but plenty of lying.

The US Govt. has consistently & blatantly lied when these sorts of accusations have been made. It's called damage control.

In mid April 2009 the US Senate Armed Services Committee released it's report on 'harsh interrogation methods' (commonly known as 'torture').The Senate investigations officially exposed & documented a whole range of crimes & outrages committed during the Bush years.

One of the issues investigated was the secret CIA prison located in Thailand. There is no doubt that this facility existed & torture was carried out there. This Senate report has been widely reported in the media (but maybe not on FOX).

Here is a quote from an article that appeared in the Washington Post 22 April 2009

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...9042104055.html

"....The Senate report confirms participation by SERE officials in the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah, an al-Qaida associate who was the first high-level CIA detainee and the first to be subjected to waterboarding. Jessen, interviewed by Senate committee staff in November 2007, confirmed such a meeting. Mitchell, the former Air Force psychologist, was present at Zubaydah's interrogation, and was said to have had a key role in what the CIA called an "increased pressure phase," former intelligence and law-enforcement officials said.

The report also repeats, but does not confirm, long-held suspicions that the interrogation of Zubaydah became coercive before the Office of Legal Counsel at the Justice Department issued a memo on Aug. 1, 2002, sanctioning use of 10 escalating techniques, culminating in waterboarding.

Zubaydah was captured in Pakistan on March 28, 2002, and transferred to a secret CIA prison in Thailand. To justify use of enhanced interrogation techniques on Zubaydah, the Aug. 1, 2002, memo invoked a ticking-bomb scenario. "

Plenty of information on this subject is available if you care to open up your mind.

[Texpat]

A skull full of hot lead is what the nice al qaeda boys should have received -- on the spot -- immediately.

No prison, no questions, no problems.

And as a result of all this hand wringing from all the bleeding hearts, that's likely what they'll receive henceforth.

Why should any combatant be disadvantaged by civility unilaterally?

Well done. Couldn't agree more.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Texpat

[flying]

A skull full of hot lead is what the nice al qaeda boys should have received -- on the spot -- immediately.

No prison, no questions, no problems.

And as a result of all this hand wringing from all the bleeding hearts, that's likely what they'll receive henceforth.

Why should any combatant be disadvantaged by civility unilaterally?

Well done. Couldn't agree more.

Once again let me say I am so far removed from a bleeding hearet liberal that I am not even on the same planet but..............

When you say sh!t like this...........

Why should any combatant be disadvantaged by civility unilaterally?

Then why bother at all? Why not burn the constitution & the Geneva convention while your at it.

Lets go.....Come on....You want it?

How about the 540+ they released from Gitmo? Should have just killed them too?

How many were actually involved in this supposed war on terror?

Ever wonder why a ........lets see what to call them?? Oh ok Terrorist group that was so well planned to come to the US & Blow away buildings to where there was nothing left but powder? From a airplane banging it??

Attempt to blow the Pentagon by flying another plane through a wall??? Yet the windows on both sides of the hole is fine? Where did that wing go? Darn...They this precision killing demo machine have never really been heard of since? Is it the TSA at the airports that are doing such a great job that these precision fighters demo experts can no longer come here? Are we so scary that they are huddled in a cave somewhere now? Do you really think this? Really???

Sheet man even the IRA can do a bomb or two a month no problem. Yet this army worthy of trillions of our dollars to chase through multiple countries are supposedly one trick ponies?

Kinda hard when the general population is so asleep

Makes it even more hard when the kids in the US Military looking in empty caves say things like....

America has NEVER imported, bought, stolen or taken one drop of Iraqi oil

To me non thinking muppets are a hel_l of a lot more scary than any fictitious Army

Edited May 22, 2009 by flying

[Texpat]

Attempt to blow the Pentagon by flying another plane through a wall??? Yet the windows on both sides of the hole is fine? Where did that wing go? Darn...

Say no more.

Another nutjob.

[flying]

Say no more.

Another nutjob.

Say no more............

Another non-thinking Muppet

Hey if you dont know the answer your excused

You know forget all the theories just answer why a supposed precision army

worthy of a decade of us spending trillion chasing them have only one attack in them?

Edited May 23, 2009 by flying

[Ulysses G.]

Attempt to blow the Pentagon by flying another plane through a wall??? Yet the windows on both sides of the hole is fine? Where did that wing go? Darn...

Say no more.

Another nutjob.

A rather dim-witted nutjob at that.

[flying]

A rather

Another detailed response eh?

This is not a question about which Tuna sandwich is best but feel free to answer.....

Simple Q

Since the 9-11 2001 event that started a slide of 3 trillion dollars useage to chase supposed terrorist....Why then never another attack or event since?

Should be an easy question for someone of your caliber.

Edited May 23, 2009 by flying

[Texpat]

Appears to be working, eh?

And BamBam announced yesterday that some prisoners who can’t be tried for legal reasons and are considered too dangerous to let go may be held indefinitely. He sounds more like Bush every day.

National security will never yield to transparancy. Something an inexperienced, idealistic freshman senator wouldn't understand.

But he does now.

[bonobo]

3) You will never convince anyone with a brain that torture is acceptable because someone else did it first or more vigorously. I am sad to say you are probably a boy...You are someones Son & you have been programmed at a time that the military is a shadow of what it was meant to be. I imagine that you are more than likely a National Guard part time soldier.

I hope for your parents sake you get home safe.

Good Luck

I am pretty liberal in most things.  Most people are amazed that I put in a career on active duty and in the reserves and have served in combat in Iraq.  I am not a Bush fan, a fan of this particular war, nor a fan of most things conservative.

However, in this "torture" issue, I am firmly into the conservative camp.  I do not condone phsyical torture which leaves lasting harm.  I do not condone cutting out of tongues, throwing from buildings, beheadings, strapping grenades to people and then detonating them, beatings, breaking of arms--all things done by the Saddan Regime.  

But sorry, I don't have a problem with scrweing with the lights to mess up a persons persective on time, playing loud music, and yes, waterboarding.  The US waterboarded three people, one of them who helped plan 9-11 and who personally cut off the head of Daniel Pearl.  And these three men did end up revealing information which was very helpful to the US.

Waterboarding induces panic, nothing more.  It has no lasting affect on a person.  Once it is over, it is over.  I have seen victims of both Shia and Suni torture at Balad Air Base, and these poor souls will never be the same.  I was friends with a former POW of the North Vietnamese.  He will never be the same, either.  The three men who were wateboarding will be the same.  They were not physically damaged.

I know this is not PC to say this.  So what?  I think the way I do after considering the facts, not because I am in any "camp."  ANd while I lean to the left on most issues, here I am quite to the right.  Waterboarding these three men saved countless lives.

[Ulysses G.]

A rather dim-witted nutjob at that.

Another detailed response eh?

This is not a question about which Tuna sandwich is best but feel free to answer.....

Simple Q

Since the 9-11 2001 event that started a slide of 3 trillion dollars useage to chase supposed terrorist....Why then never another attack or event since?

Should be an easy question for someone of your caliber.

Because it is very difficult for foreigners to stage an operation in the U.S. - that is why is has been done so infrequently - and Osama is too busy hiding out from all the special operatives that are chasing him. 3 trillion dollars buys a lot of manpower.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[flying]

Waterboarding induces panic, nothing more. It has no lasting affect on a person.

No problem then....SO you have had it done to you?

Perhaps it would be no problem if later it becomes standard police procedure in Thailand for rousting drunken farangs?

To each their own & everyone is entitled to their opinion. But if ours is such as to ignore the Geneva convention & our own US laws regarding this then no crying later if the shoe changes feet

Trust me I hear what your saying & get as mad as anyone...But if the end justifies the means then folks will just vote from rooftops soon enough eh?

Because it is very difficult for foreigners to stage an operation in the U.S. - that is why is has been done so infrequently - and Osama is too busy hiding out from all the special operatives that are chasing him. 3 trillion dollars buys a lot of manpower.

Man that is quite the contradiction then isn't it? The whole 9-11 looked pretty difficult didn't it.

Yet sending all these folks over seas & even the National Guards are gone so this made here more safe eh?

But as you say maybe it is too much to dream in 8+ years not one pop not one bang. Not even a single bullet ? Even with 27000 shipping containers arriving in the US each DAY? Hmmm I guess your right....We all just too smart for them dumb Terrorist. Either that or hey maybe they are not even trying?

In any case does make us wonder why bother throwing 3 trillion at a problem that seems very un-problematic eh?

Considering our current economy and all.

Edited May 23, 2009 by flying