Why Is The Thai Language Forced Upon Non Immigrant Students?

[PeaceBlondie]

Most real, Western style international schools follow the British or American terms, 9 or so months per year, starting mid/late August. A Thai academic calendar interferes with that.

Intl students are by no means immigrants.

Maybe koolkarl protests too much.

[koolkarl]

If the thread starter would stay here for less than 1 year, I can understand his opinion. But in any other case I have to disagree for 3 reasons:

- Specialization and generalization are not mutually exclusive. You can never know too much.

- Learning Thai while living in Thailand is probably the most useful thing you can do. It will make life much easier and more enjoyable.

- Out of respect for the people of this country you should have at least basic understanding of their language and culture.

We are in this country temporarily. International schools cost a lot of money and the kids are only in school 6 months of the year. Neither parent is thai nor speaks thai. International schools teach in english and that is why my kids were placed there in the first place. Most importantly, my kids have a NON IMMIGRANT VISA, in other words, if they don't attend school here, they get kicked out of the country, complete with their 10 words of thai which is useless outside of this country. Learning the thai language in an international school has nothing to do with respect for this country.

Your children might face some difficulties, staying less than 1 full school year in the same country (only 6 months, while a school year is 9 months). I hope they'll do well. How can they handle that - moving from one school to the other, in the middle of a school year?

I live here for 2 years on a NON IMMIGRANT VISA. It's just a name. Most foreigners that live here stay on such a visa. We all get kicked out if we don't comply with the visa rules. I think the same is true for other countries. New immigrants in Holland are expected to learn the language even BEFORE they enter Holland (else they don't get a visa) .... so consider yourself lucky.

Even if your children would learn to speak Klingon language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingon_language) it would be useful. A brain needs simulation to develop. And studying one thing will not stop you from studying another thing (the opposite is true, it will help you).

If you stay here 6 months per year, several years long, I think it's extremely useful to learn Thai. You will save a lot of time and money and you'll avoid a lot of frustration.

Learning to speak the language of the country you stay in has everything to do with respect. You use other peoples land, roads, restaurants, services and so on. You're a guest of this country and you are expected to be behave humble and grateful that they allow you to stay here. You're expected to make life of the native Thai people as easy as possible by fitting in. Learning the language is essential to fit in.

All children in western schools are only in school 6 months of the year... the remainder being the numerous holidays, weekends, etc. School time is very valuable.

Regarding Holland, you didn't specify whether the person moving there is a full immigrant or a " 1 year tourist visa". If an immigrant, I have no problem in the Dutch requirement but I certainly do if only a 1 year tourist visa or non immigrant or whatever.

Do you speak thai? If this government forced you, a one year tourist who can get kicked out with a stroke of a pen, to learn this language, would you come here?

[TommyD]

Any non-thai children attending an international school is forced to learn the thai language. All of these children have a 1 year, non immigrant visa... in other words, an extended tourist visa. There are many more useful languages to learn in the very limited class time. I can understand immigrants learning the language, but non immigrants being forced to learn thai is unnecessary and a waste of school resources. What do you think?

By the way, I have contacted the school principal about this matter, and he just shrugs his shoulders so I am relocating my family to a more reasonable country.

I remember from a friend who came from China to study in The Netherlands even has to learn Dutch on the Uni. I also think you should learn the language from the country you live in even you will live there just for a few years.

cheers

[kriswillems]

All children in western schools are only in school 6 months of the year... the remainder being the numerous holidays, weekends, etc. School time is very valuable.

Regarding Holland, you didn't specify whether the person moving there is a full immigrant or a " 1 year tourist visa". If an immigrant, I have no problem in the Dutch requirement but I certainly do if only a 1 year tourist visa or non immigrant or whatever.

Do you speak thai? If this government forced you, a one year tourist who can get kicked out with a stroke of a pen, to learn this language, would you come here?

I suppose your children don't fly back home every weekend and every little holiday, so they are here almost 9 months and not 6 months as you said before. So, that makes learning Thai even more useful for them.

The requirement to study the language in Holland is for people that marry with a Dutch national and that plan to move to Holland. They have much more reason to move to Holland than a simple tourist, and even they are required to study the language first (before leaving). There's no visa for long term tourists in Holland. So if you're not from Europe you wouldn't even be allowed to stay there if you would be perfect in Dutch. So again, you can consider yourself very lucky in Thailand.

I speak/read and write Thai. I think it's an interesting language. Anyone can get kicked out by a stroke of a pen, also I, but at least I'll be able to understand why.

To be honest, I think with this attitude it will be very hard or even impossible for you to study Thai. But I wouldn't deny your children this right and privilege, especially because it's much more easy for them to study a new language (because of their age).

Edited May 24, 2009 by kriswillems

[Kaojai]

What do you think?

By the way, I have contacted the school principal about this matter, and he just shrugs his shoulders so I am relocating my family to a more reasonable country.

Their loss is our gain.

[humfurry]

Any non-thai children attending an international school is forced to learn the thai language. All of these children have a 1 year, non immigrant visa... in other words, an extended tourist visa. There are many more useful languages to learn in the very limited class time. I can understand immigrants learning the language, but non immigrants being forced to learn thai is unnecessary and a waste of school resources. What do you think?

By the way, I have contacted the school principal about this matter, and he just shrugs his shoulders so I am relocating my family to a more reasonable country.

I remember from a friend who came from China to study in The Netherlands even has to learn Dutch on the Uni. I also think you should learn the language from the country you live in even you will live there just for a few years.

cheers

It's not a bad idea to learn the language of the country your living in. Having said that I can tell you that my Thai wife from Bkk who was educated in Japan can not really understand other Thai dialects all that well. When we visit the East or the South it's like....huh?

Me, I give up learning Thai about 3 or 4 times a day!

[meadish_sweetball]

All children in western schools are only in school 6 months of the year... the remainder being the numerous holidays, weekends, etc. School time is very valuable.

Regarding Holland, you didn't specify whether the person moving there is a full immigrant or a " 1 year tourist visa". If an immigrant, I have no problem in the Dutch requirement but I certainly do if only a 1 year tourist visa or non immigrant or whatever.

Do you speak thai? If this government forced you, a one year tourist who can get kicked out with a stroke of a pen, to learn this language, would you come here?

Have you considered putting them in a different school at all?

To me your indignation comes off as disproportionate to the situation you are describing.

If your children are bright and motivated they will not suffer in the least from learning a bit of Thai, and in the future they will pursue other interests and fields they are more interested in anyway.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I can't help but getting the impression that you see their school time as a race against time and the sole purpose of their schooling is to acquire knowledge they can use in securing a job in the future.

However, if you look back at your own school years, and put the things you learned in perspective to what knowledge and skills you apply in your profession today, I would guess that as for most of us, a great deal of what you learned was not exactly relevant to your current work situation. It may still have been useful for reasons of brain development and general knowledge as well as developing learning strategies and people skills.

I can think of so many worse things to learn than an extra language, never mind how insignificant that language is on a global scale.

[desi]

For such a short length of time, there is always the option of home schooling.

And for way less than the price of International schools, you can line up teachers to tutor your kids on the subjects you are weak in. Or all of the subjects if you like.

I found science a problem with my son (when I relocated away from France he did not want to go to boarding school any more, so I home schooled him).

But if you are only here for six months, then pass on the hands on parts of the science studies and lean on book only sections.

Australia used to be way ahead in its home schooling programs. They are also strict about studies, so if you aren't serious, don't bother.

If it is done right, home schooled kids are often rated high when they go to enter Uni, etc.

[madcatlady]

Any non-thai children attending an international school is forced to learn the thai language. All of these children have a 1 year, non immigrant visa... in other words, an extended tourist visa. There are many more useful languages to learn in the very limited class time. I can understand immigrants learning the language, but non immigrants being forced to learn thai is unnecessary and a waste of school resources. What do you think?

By the way, I have contacted the school principal about this matter, and he just shrugs his shoulders so I am relocating my family to a more reasonable country.

Are you for real???

You're going to be here for at least 6 months and your kids are at school here yet you still label yourself as a tourist.

I would understand you complaining if you were only going to be here for a matter of weeks but 6 months or more... At least someone in your family should learn Thai. It is the respectful, not to mention practical thing to do. Do you really have no interest in Thai culture? Why are you here then?

And I agree with all of the other posters that point out that learning a language can never be a waste of time (especially if it's the language of the host country). 25 years ago I learned French, Spanish and Latin at school. None of them have been that useful in my life so far but I don't regret learning them.

MCL

[loong]

..............

However, if you look back at your own school years, and put the things you learned in perspective to what knowledge and skills you apply in your profession today, I would guess that as for most of us, a great deal of what you learned was not exactly relevant to your current work situation. It may still have been useful for reasons of brain development and general knowledge as well as developing learning strategies and people skills..............

Very often on this forum there is a lot of ill-informed advice by people who would like to force their own opinions on other people.

Occasionally people offer intelligent well-thought out comments to give people food for thought.

I think that you make a very good point Meadish.

[johnefallis]

I don't speak English to Thai people, either.

How do you manage that? I can't get the buggers to speak Thai. I had an exchange with a cashier in Seacon Square which was entirely Thai on my part and entirely English on hers At the end she suggested I "Have a nice day"... I asked her if she had ever considered learning to speak Thai?

I also loathe those recorded responses at the BTS station cashier's that end with "Have a NICE day" (I am NOT American, I don't do nice days) instead of a smile and 'khop khun kah/kap' they just hit the play button and hand you over to the machinery, may as well be back in London.

In the US or England, I would speak English

Good luck with that in the UK; shop, restaurant and hotel staff speak their own language of grunts and snorts and everybody else (in N. London) speaks Polish.

I just wanted to say "Have a nice day!"

[johnefallis]

I rarely, if ever, have the experiences that you allude to. It may be partly because of where I live, but I also go all over the city, and many provinces. The short answer, I suppose, is that I insist - and persist - if necessary, which it almost never is, in my experience. I don't think a brief, impersonal exchange of money and goods with a supermarket cashier counts, though; that is not a conversation. But in a small shop, it is rather different. I have always found Thai people to be happy, nay, relieved, to be able to speak Thai with me: if not, they're someone who either wants something from me, that I don't want to give; or they are trying to impress me. In the latter case, I can empathize, but I'm frankly not very interested in indulging it, because I truly do believe in เข้าเมืองตาหลิ่วต้องหลิ่วตาตาม.

I concede that others' experiences may be different. But, when I first moved here, I was unable to find people who spoke English - even in places where one might expect: banks, telephone companies, the municipal district office, etc. So I thought, well, this is a country where most people don't speak English, and that was just fine with me. I came here to learn Thai, first and foremost. And I really don't have occasions (but for very rare, stubborn people) when Thai people are not happy to speak Thai. Maybe I'm fortunate.

By the way, I've never been to England; that was a rhetorical point. In Latin America, we insist that you speak Spanish.

As it should be.

Cheers.

Que? Usted no habla Ingles en America Latina?

Buenos dias!

jajaja

[Rionoir]

And my friends ask me why I don't have more farang friends here... lol

If I put my kid in a class in ANY country, I would expect them to be taught at least a little bit of the local language.

[Rionoir]

By the way.. kids that study any foreign language when they are young will be able to pick up other foreign languages much easier in the future. So even if you think Thai is useless, the act of learning the language will be great for him.

[mangkorn]

Que? Usted no habla Ingles en America Latina?

Buenos dias!

jajaja

I don't get the joke.

[ChubbyThaiInSwe]

I totally agreed with what kriswillems said :

- Specialization and generalization are not mutually exclusive. You can never know too much.

- Learning Thai while living in Thailand is probably the most useful thing you can do. It will make life much easier and more enjoyable.

- Out of respect for the people of this country you should have at least basic understanding of their language and culture.

I am thai but have been living in different countries and its always an advantage learning the language and about school I dont have kids myself but a friend of mine, her husband is an expat so they move around alot and their kids always go to international school and still...... they have to learn the language. They learned French when they were in France, German when they were in Germany and now they relocated in Spain, the kids got to learn Spanish at school too

Oh btw I didnt know that Spanish is an easy language to learn if you are a westerner as I just started it and find it frikkin difficult!!!

[jonclark]

Having taught in an International School here in Thailand for the last few years. The reasons why International Schools are now required to teach Thai is due to meddling from the MoE who for whatever reasons decided that all schools must learn Thai. And remember that a lot of Thai children go to International Schools and many of them were learning English as a first language (so therein may lie the answer). As a result of the Moe Decree most international schools opted for a two tier approach, with mainstream Thai for the Thai students and Thai as a Foreign Language (TFL) for the International students.

Overall, the International students taking TFL are really receptive to learning Thai and see the benefit of doing Thai as, unlike say chemistry,they get the immediate benefit of the class the next time they go out. Ironically the Thai students and strangely their parents find learning Thai the most difficult. Parents don't want their children learning Thai - there seems some stigma to it, bit what it is and why eludes me. Whilst the Thai kids take their Thai lesson as a chance to sit around and use their PSP's.

Go Figure !!!!

Edited June 11, 2009 by jonclark

[mangkorn]

Ironically the Thai students and strangely their parents find learning Thai the most difficult.

Can that be correct? Wouldn't the word be "studying" rather than "learning?" They already speak Thai - ergo, they have learned it - and continue to learn more in their everyday activities. If you followed them around outside of school, I seriously doubt you'd find any stigma attached to speaking Thai. Refusing to pay attention in a Thai-language class doesn't seem so odd. Just bored teens with limited attention spans, most likely. English students don't pay attention in English-grammar classes, either (the proof is found in many postings on these forums from native English speakers, which show little or no familiarity with correct grammar).

Or, are you suggesting that those Thais are monolingual English speakers? I can't imagine that to be true.

[jonclark]

Many parents pay the comparatively large fees and expect what they perceive to be a western education (debate as you will what this actually entails at your leisure). Their main perception of this is that in school they expect their children to be using English.

As the point of the OP was that he doesn't see why his children should be forced to learn / study Thai. Many of the Thai parents of students concur with this, because as you rightly pointed out, their children have already learn t Thai and therefore don't need to learn it anymore. So, some parents feel that the time being spent studying Thai is not needed and given that they pay the school fees their opinion should be bloody well listened to. After all their children can learn Thai at home.

This 'attitude' is then passed on to sons and daughters. I have a number of students whose English (reading writing etc...) is excellent, and whilst they can speak Thai, their reading and writing of Thai is way down what would reasonably be expected for their age group in a mainstream Thai school.

I'm not suggesting that Thai students at international schools are mono lingual in English. Rather that Thai has been forced into the curriculum to give Thai students an opportunity to achieve a higher level of Thai. Because up until a few years ago Thai was not a statutory requirement for International school in Thailand resulting in poorer levels of literacy amongst the Thai student population.

As for International Students. As I stated in my first post, they generally enjoy TFL and in that respect the OP should give his children the opportunity to experience a new language, irrespective of how useful he or she perceives it to be in the long run.

Hope that's clarified my earlier comment.

[mangkorn]

Duly clarified.

[Arkady]

Jonclark's explanation seems to make sense and, if that is the case, I don't why the head master didn't explained that the school was obliged to teach Thai by the Thai Ministry of Education instead of just shrugging his shoulders like an idiot. Certainly, in the past Thai was optional for non-Thai kids at the major international schools. I can understand parents who are only on a two year posting and whose kids are coming up to critical university entrance exams not wanting their kids to spend time on Thai. For all others it makes sense to take the opportunity to learn the language of the country, so they can have experience of learning a foreign language and practicing it right away. In the British system they can take a Thai GCSE exam, so they get can credit for time spent learning Thai, if they pass.

[meadish_sweetball]

Tel Aviv University finds connection between mental fitness and multi-lingualism:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/200...t-tau050708.php

[tomashopkins]

Well my impressions:

-- Parents and children should decide for themselves what languages they are going to study. Children are sponges and that is the ideal age to learn languages. If the parents expect their stay in Thailand to be short term their children would be better served learning more internationally useful languages. On the other hand, if they plan to stay for some years, it would be good to learn Thai, and some other language as well.

-- Whether adults should learn Thai is situational. As a retiree in Pattaya, Thai is not necessary at all. English is truly the second language here. You can get by with English well over 90 percent of the time, and if you are really in a fix, there are always translators.

-- The Spanish perspective. NO COMPARISON WITH THAI! Spanish is one of the easiest languages in the world for westerners to learn. Thai is one of the most difficult to become even moderately fluent in. It is true if you move to the Spanish speakking world YOU MUST LEARN SPANISH. In Thailand, you may need to depending on your location and responsibilities, but the absolute requirement is by no means univeral here.