Border Issue

[Teddy3943]

After 4 years of carefree living in our new built house, suddenly our neighbour claimed that we built our fence-wall on a part of his land. First I was convinced that we had the wall built on our own property, since we had excavated the mark-pole before the house was built and the contractor was aware of the borders of our property. But later it appeared that the builders obviously had made a mistake in the lay-out of the groundplan of the house and since the wall then would almost touch the house the builders had bent the direction a little bit and solved their problem. This way leaving us with a problem later. So our neighbour was right and then arose the question: what to do about it? The piece of land now inside our wall, but belonging to the neighbours property is a steep triangle of about 21 meters long en 2.40 meter wide at the base, around 25 square meter. I offered to buy this piece and raised the price from 300 to 500 and now to over 1000 Baht per square meter. It's in the countryside and the neighbour grows only banana trees there. But he refuses all my offers and claims instead to take the wall, included a part of the front wall which forms one unit with the rest of our front wall of the house. Building a new wall is not really an option, since it would end in a very ugly situation where the wall almost would touch the house. Moving the house is also no option. The piece of land is really not worth much. If the neighbour had it back he could probably three of four banana trees extra growing there, which would make not much difference to the amount of banana trees he has already on his 2 rai.

Our question: What options do we have, now our neighbour tries to take as much profit from this situation as he can? We can not force him to sell the land. What would a judge say about this situation?

We trusted the contractor, since he was a "well educated" graduate at the university of Khon Kaen, but later it appeared that he used a group of amateur workers from Isaan, who made many stupid mistakes and caused very big problems at the installation of the electrical system, which caused at the very first day of living in the house a short circuit and a fire. The electric system could not be broken by the group swich at the switch board, nor by the main switch at the switch board in the house. We had to disconnect the system outside the house to prevent the house from burning down. This was really the limit after already many fury discussions about the construction of the house. I didn't pay the last term and told the contractor not to step ever on our property again. So claiming now he made the mistake with the lay-out of the groundplan of the house is also not really an option to follow. He surely would deny everything.

[loong]

From the last part of your post it doesn't sound exactly 4 years of carefree living.

You've offered the equivalent of over 1.6 million per Rai and he's not happy with that?

You'd best talk to a lawyer.

I think that there is some law that allows you to claim land if you have uninterrupted uncontested use of a piece of land for a certain length of time, but I don't know how long. How long ago was the wall built? Talk to a lawyer and apart from discussing your options, discuss your neighbours options.

In other words, find out what your neighbour would have to go through to reclaim the land. If it would require a lengthy and costly court process, he may be persuaded that selling would be in his best interests.

Also check what title your neighbour has to the land.

Good luck.

[apetley]

I would suggest going along to your local Amphur and asking for a quick survey of the relevant marker posts first.

Shouldn't cost too much and you will at least find out for sure if you are in the right or wrong.

[trogers]

This is a lesson. Even before putting a structure on paper, you should first get the local authorities to identify the border markers and plot the property lines of the land. This will be placed in writing and the authorities will get owners of neighbouring properties to sign their agreement. Then there will not be disputes of such nature.

[Crossy]

This is a lesson. Even before putting a structure on paper, you should first get the local authorities to identify the border markers and plot the property lines of the land. This will be placed in writing and the authorities will get owners of neighbouring properties to sign their agreement. Then there will not be disputes of such nature.

Yup. We did just that as part of the planning application, the markers were re-surveyed and missing ones replaced. In our case the plot grew by a good few square metres as one of the posts was positioned in the khlong (erosion had removed the old one) so we were able to expand somewhat

[dave111223]

At the end of the day even if you pay him the "over the 1000baht" per square meter... that's only 25000baht...not exactly the end of the world....

If he was a real asshol_e he could probably go to court and have your wall bulldozed and not to mention that they have a limit to how close you can build to the edge of someone else land...your house could be also too close... maybe he decides he wants that bulldozed too...

25000baht seems like a pretty small price to pay.

[Tywais]

But he refuses all my offers and claims instead to take the wall, included a part of the front wall which forms one unit with the rest of our front wall of the house.

At the end of the day even if you pay him the "over the 1000baht" per square meter... that's only 25000baht...not exactly the end of the world....

Sounds like the OP is willing to pay but being refused.

Regarding the house proximity next to the neighbors property, I believe it's 1 meter if that side of the house has windows.

[trogers]

But he refuses all my offers and claims instead to take the wall, included a part of the front wall which forms one unit with the rest of our front wall of the house.

At the end of the day even if you pay him the "over the 1000baht" per square meter... that's only 25000baht...not exactly the end of the world....

Sounds like the OP is willing to pay but being refused.

Regarding the house proximity next to the neighbors property, I believe it's 1 meter if that side of the house has windows.

Building not exceeding 12m height has to be 2m from the property line at it's sides and 3m at the front when the wall has window or door opening. A wall with no opening can be 0.5m from the property line.

[Tywais]

Building not exceeding 12m height has to be 2m from the property line at it's sides and 3m at the front when the wall has window or door opening. A wall with no opening can be 0.5m from the property line.

Thanks for the correction.

[teacup]

Simple solution really

Go to your Local land department and have it re-survey

I don't know where you live, but my family had it done before and it didn't cost us anything.....took them couple weeks to come out tho

[loong]

From the OP, he did state that the neighbour was correct and they had built on his land. That does suggest that he has already had it confirmed.

[teacup]

From the OP, he did state that the neighbour was correct and they had built on his land. That does suggest that he has already had it confirmed.

Well the op didn't mention anything about ever had seen the official document from the land dept showing the boundary locations, except ...he said, she said, the builder said, the neighbor said.........so on

If indeed it's true, then "legally" there is not much to be done if his neighbor doesn't want to sell it, except shifting his house.

Eventhough it "appears" that the mistake came from the builder, but the op (or rather his wife) is the titile owner, then all responsibilies are falling on her, this is any common sense judge would say.

Then the op and his wife will have to go after the builder for any damaged claim from this incident, if they should to.

Edited May 24, 2009 by teacup

[eljeque]

Instead of going the combative legal route, try contacting the local puyaiban, or someone along those lines, let him know of your error and your interests in solving the problem. Even though you are in the wrong, it appears that you have been fair and reasonable about trying to solve the problem, and I am sure the local headman will recognize this.

By the way, do you have an "anuwatbuksan" construction permit? This should note where your house is built and how close it is to the land line. Just curious.

Good luck

[Teddy3943]

Before the start of building we went with a staff member of our tessaban to the land and chequed with the drawing at hand of the future position of the house would be o.k. This drawing with the position of the house was later legalized and stamped and also given to the builder. He, or the by him hired company which bored the holes for the supporting piles, have made a measuring mistake, which appeared, I think, when they were finishing the wall. The border was not clear to see and obviously our neighbour didn't notice it too for almost 4 years, until he asked the land office to cheque the property borders, which has been done. The land office placed a new marker pole just outside of our wall. I presumed that this was done to mark the new borders after we told the officer that I would buy the land what was overcrossed by our wall. The puyaiban was present at this happening and we signed an agreement that we would solve the matter by buying the piece of land. After that our neighbour got a little bit reluctant to proceed quickly and put every time new demands on the table. Our puyaiban set himself up as a mediator, but although he is doing his best, he appears to be not enough educated or expierenced to do it the way it should be done, according to the basics of mediation. But this is Thailand and we have to deal with it. It's a real tiring process.

[thaihome]

Best thing you can do is find out what the neighbor will take to sell you the land. The only thing you can do is start making preparation to demolish the wall, and at the last minute have puyaiban make a very lucrative offer and pointing out that by demolishing the wall everyone loses. But you must show you are willing to tear down the wall.

TH

Edited May 26, 2009 by thaihome

[Crossy]

If you remove the wall and re-build on the correct line will it affect your house?

If not simply start preparations for demolishing the old wall and building a new wall. Better than even money that the neighbour will see XX,000 Baht disappearing into the distance and will settle

Also

Isn't there some rule about a person using land for a period without the owners permission or objection gaining ownership of said property??

[loong]

Also

Isn't there some rule about a person using land for a period without the owners permission or objection gaining ownership of said property??

There is, I raised the point in post #2, but not sure how long a time before it can be claimed.

I agree with you and the others, it could be a good strategy to prepare to demolish the wall if possible. He may well be more amenable to the offer.

[donne]

Also

Isn't there some rule about a person using land for a period without the owners permission or objection gaining ownership of said property??

There is, I raised the point in post #2, but not sure how long a time before it can be claimed.

I agree with you and the others, it could be a good strategy to prepare to demolish the wall if possible. He may well be more amenable to the offer.

Over ten years with prove.

[Crossy]

Over ten years with prove.

Non-starter then, over to Plan D for 'Demolish'

[Teddy3943]

Over ten years with prove.

Non-starter then, over to Plan D for 'Demolish'

Tear down the wall and rebuild it, then the wall would almost touch the low side of the roof. Besides that the front fence, which is now a balanced nice object would then be shortened and would look very ugly. This is not in the interest of anybody living in our soi. Now everything looks nice, but breaking the wall for this tiny piece of land is way out of proportion.

[Crossy]

Now everything looks nice, but breaking the wall for this tiny piece of land is way out of proportion.

Agreed, but since you are in the wrong and your neighbour refuses to co-operate you're running out of options

Have you had a re-survey done to accurately determine where your land ends?

As noted before, just looking like you're preparing to move the wall may be enough to persuade the neighbour to take the offered money rather than nothing. Play on the greed factor

[Pierrot]

The problem is you're an honest guy. You already know the worst case scenario (tear down the wall and rebuild it).

Now what will happen if you play it the Thai way, I'm dumb, I'm deaf and I don't care what you say. What will be his next move ?