Police Charged Over Drug War

[Plus]

That purpose included using violence that the security agencies were not to use, officially.

Suthep says they were not meant to use violence, you make it sound that beating up reds was their sole purpose. Interior ministry is run by Newin men, btw.

How's that on par with secret death squads methodically ticking off victims of their list for months wihout a break? Did Thaksin came out after the drug war and explained how death squads were organised and for what purpose?

And how are Democrats related to said death squads?

[sriracha john]

Waiting for the News Clippings Forum to be established.

and once that was done, a few of us have been making posts on the subject for quite some time...

I have no doubt that the status quo CAN change, and yes, things do change.... but I do not believe he is personally responsible for it. What do you feel he has changed?

Curtailment of civil liberties and freedom of the press (2500 uninvestigated killings last year during HIS drug war...

Thanks for the link and I congratulate you for being the most consistent Thaksin basher that I have found on the forum.

It is very interesting to look at the last 3 or 4 pages - the oldest pages - in the News Clippings forum and see how many topics got zero replies. These days, such topics would get 100's of posts I'm sure. This one is just begging for a huge number of replies, but got only 2. Amazing.

Yep... dem were da days of News Clippings... 0 replies and myself replying and perhaps 1 or 2 other replies.

It's come a looooong way since I came on and showed interest. It's been ever-increasing number of contributors ever since.

I don't claim to have built News Clippings up from nothing by myself... but a review of the archives reveals the level of my involvement in that huge growth spurt within this forum.

Edited May 27, 2009 by sriracha john

[justanothercybertosser]

That purpose included using violence that the security agencies were not to use, officially.

Suthep says they were not meant to use violence, you make it sound that beating up reds was their sole purpose. Interior ministry is run by Newin men, btw.

How's that on par with secret death squads methodically ticking off victims of their list for months wihout a break? Did Thaksin came out after the drug war and explained how death squads were organised and for what purpose?

And how are Democrats related to said death squads?

And you believe Suthep?

Suthep has white washed the setting up of the Blue Shirts in his way, and Thaksin white washed the drug war killings as well, though differently.

There are more than a few photos and clips available which show armed Blue Shirts together with the military. When Suthep says their purpose was not violence, then he is lying. But of course, a politician of the side you support would never do that...

By the way, your exoneration of Suthep does not work. He is the executive power for internal security, and therefore responsible. In his own words, if you look at the interview, he speaks of "we" when mentioning the decision of using the Blue Shirts:

Quote:

"Chon Buri's authorities told me they had blue shirts, which were part of the Interior Ministry campaign for social unity. We agreed to use the blue shirts. At night I inspected different locations and Newin Chidchob emerged. In fact there were others, such as Suwit Khunkitti. Everyone wanted the summit to go ahead without problems. We agreed to group soldiers, police and civilians and prepared vehicles with sound systems for them to counter the protesters. We wanted to buy time; we needed a little over one day before the summit would be completed."

Edited May 27, 2009 by justanothercybertosser

[sriracha john]

I,m sorry to have to offer the following but for anyone who may wish to be disrespectful, please think about the victims and their families before posting.

This thread, hopefully will concentrate on the serious side of debate and well earned due respect T.Visa is renowned for..

marshbags

here here... an "Off-Topic-Free Zone" should be declared for this thread...

*BUMP*

Police Charged Over Drug War

Edited May 27, 2009 by sriracha john

[Lite Beer]

Several Posts of a Royal Nature and the replies to them have been deleted.

Rule 2

2) Not to express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation and comments of a political nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban.

[Plus]

And you believe Suthep?

Between his version - create a new group protesting against reds, and your version - use violent mobs to crash red rallies, I tend to believe Suthep.

I don't see any substance in your allegation that Suthep wanted to create huge street clashes between rival groups. That would go against any sense or reason in that.

How could you think that up, btw? Can you even imagine street fighting between tens of thousands of people? And you tell us that was govt strategy? Similar to secret death squads?

[Bangyai]

For the sake of innocent victims and their relatives it is high time those guilty should be brought to justice. Its only a pity that the innocent victims of the Black May riots and their relatives are unlikely to ever see the same kind of justice applied to their murderers.

[Journalist]

To borrow the much-overused posting style of bleeding-heart liberal Rixylix...."How would you feel about the pushers, if it was your daughter who died due to an overdose?"

Why would someone who places such a cheap value on life and responds to the question of innocent people getting caught up in the culling with simply, "so what", be asking such a question?

Or are we to undertsand that if it's your own daughter's life on the line, that's an issue - anyone else's daughter is fair game, right?

I didn't say 'so what' . Tex did

Yes, if my daughter is a drug pusher. Your daughter is a drug user, and Plus's is a Rohingya. Then its mine that has to go overboard...its tough love. I won't have my child hurting another person's kid. I bring my child up that way strictly.

Plus' apparent inconsistencies can be explained far more plausiibly by pointing out that Abhisit was at the steering wheel during the Rohingya incident, whereas his archenemy and bane of every second of his waking like, Thaksin was in charge for the drug war.

[justanothercybertosser]

And you believe Suthep?

Between his version - create a new group protesting against reds, and your version - use violent mobs to crash red rallies, I tend to believe Suthep.

I don't see any substance in your allegation that Suthep wanted to create huge street clashes between rival groups. That would go against any sense or reason in that.

How could you think that up, btw? Can you even imagine street fighting between tens of thousands of people? And you tell us that was govt strategy? Similar to secret death squads?

Nobody talks about "tens of thousands of people". At least not yet, so far, but who knows what the future may hold in store?

The Blue Shirts were used for one purpose, and appeared for one event in public (rumors of their appearance a week or so previously at the airport made the rounds as well, but there is no photographic evidence). What matter is here is that this strategy was used, and there are no indications whatsoever that it won't be used again.

So you believe Suthep that the Blue Shirts were peaceful civilians, no violence intended, even though they were filmed and photographed with arms, including guns, before the clashes began, together with security forces? It boggles the mind - that is even more outlandish than some of Koo82's claims.

Your attempts to whitewash the government you favor, ignoring clear evidence, are ridiculous.

[samgrowth]

Watch out. The light green shirt group is forming. A break away from the yellow shirt.

[jayboy]

Yep... dem were da days of News Clippings... 0 replies and myself replying and perhaps 1 or 2 other replies.

It's come a looooong way since I came on and showed interest. It's been ever-increasing number of contributors ever since.

I don't claim to have built News Clippings up from nothing by myself... but a review of the archives reveals the level of my involvement in that huge growth spurt within this forum.

Let's hope that sitting behind a laptop 24/7 hasn't contributed to a huge growth spurt to your backside !

Seriously I recognise your dedication even though I almost always disagree with your editorial slant.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

The lack of compassion and respect for human rights voiced in this thread is chilling. Those who were drug dealers still have the right to a fair trail according to the constitution. What is wrong with you people that you would condone such action? And the bucks did stop with Thaksin as he took all the 'credit' for it, he now must accept all blame for the War on Drugs too. Jeez guys, innocent people were murdered by a government which was proud of doing so. How can anyone think that is right? I can't even read this thread anymore.

[rixalex]

The lack of compassion and respect for human rights voiced in this thread is chilling.

Yes it is, and from people who in the next breath will be telling you how important the democratic rule of law is to them.

[samgrowth]

[inappropriate link removed]

Thaksin is the sole person to be blamed. He should be in jail right now, not spending billion in jets and UAE 7 star hotels.

[Plus]

Nobody talks about "tens of thousands of people". At least not yet, so far, but who knows what the future may hold in store?

The Blue Shirts were used for one purpose, and appeared for one event in public (rumors of their appearance a week or so previously at the airport made the rounds as well, but there is no photographic evidence).

There were thousands of red shirts in Pattaya on that day and tens of thousands more in Bangkok. There's no reason to suspect that blue shirts were set up with sole purpose of confronting those reds with violence, even if it came down to that in the end. No wonder they immediately dispersed after violence broke out and have never been seen since.

It's quite a stretch from what actually happened to alleged govt policy of sponsoring street mobs to beat the hel_l out of red demonstrations. An experiment that went terribly wrong and was immediately dropped is more likely explanation.

And there were reports, not rumors of blue shirts at the airport.

>>>>

Your main, silly reason to discuss blues here is to somehow argue that they are equal to secret death squads. Initially it was stated as a fact, now it looks like a cheap conspiracy theory.

>>>>

Vast majority of drug dealers didn't go through any trials at all - they simply swore off the drugs and at best went through rehabilitation camps, that was their official treatment. Thousands were killed, however, and it's strange to hear some posters say "deservedly so". Even Thaksin never actually admitted they were killed by the govt, but some people here say they should have been. He looks like Mother Theresa by comparison.

[hammered]

Shouldnt forget the effects the drug war had on HIV initiatives either.

[justanothercybertosser]

Your main, silly reason to discuss blues here is to somehow argue that they are equal to secret death squads. Initially it was stated as a fact, now it looks like a cheap conspiracy theory.

I think you have serious difficulties in reading other members posts.

No the death squads are not equal to the Blue Shirts. The system that enabled setting the death squads up is though equal to the system that set the Blue Shirts up. It is the same system that allowed Kratingdaeng and Navapol to be set up, that allowed death squads in the south to be set up, and whatever else may be opportune to be set up in the future. All governments and power groups in Thailand have used this system, including your beloved democrats.

[Plus]

Ah, "the system". What is a conspiracy theory without a "system" lurking in the shadows?

I'm curious, if it's the same system that set village scouts in the 70s, death squads in the South and during drug war, why did it fail so miserably when "my beloved Democrats" used it?

[justanothercybertosser]

Ah, "the system". What is a conspiracy theory without a "system" lurking in the shadows?

I'm curious, if it's the same system that set village scouts in the 70s, death squads in the South and during drug war, why did it fail so miserably when "my beloved Democrats" used it?

Because it failed miserably as well in the past as it has only escalated the conflicts it was used against. The only (short lived) "success" was the drug war, if one may several thousand extrajudicially killed people a "success". I would call it a failure of the system, as i would also call the massive spreads of drugs a failure of the system.

This, by the way, is not a "conspiracy" theory. There is proof and evidence, which you conveniently ignore.

This discussion is turning about as silly as every discussion with you. You ignore every proof presented, and make things up as you go.

[Plus]

You ignore every proof presented

What proof????

You have proof that blue shirt failure after throwing rocks for twenty minutes is similar to village scouts killing students in the 70s and driving all lefites out to the jungles? Or that it was the same system?

You gave out their contact numbers or what? I missed it.

[sriracha john]

Yep... dem were da days of News Clippings... 0 replies and myself replying and perhaps 1 or 2 other replies.

It's come a looooong way since I came on and showed interest. It's been ever-increasing number of contributors ever since.

I don't claim to have built News Clippings up from nothing by myself... but a review of the archives reveals the level of my involvement in that huge growth spurt within this forum.

Let's hope that sitting behind a laptop 24/7 hasn't contributed to a huge growth spurt to your backside !

Seriously I recognise your dedication even though I almost always disagree with your editorial slant.

The backside's just fine, younghusband.

Hope yours is, too.

And yes, it's hard to recall someone with whom I've disagreed with more over the years other than The Master... but it's all been good.

It gives me a lot of satisfaction to know I spurred a lot of interest into this previous, little-visited corner of information and discussion.

[justanothercybertosser]

I missed it.

You miss a lot, but we are used it.

Anyhow, the is getting again a bit to silly for me. have a nice day.

[jayboy]

Yep... dem were da days of News Clippings... 0 replies and myself replying and perhaps 1 or 2 other replies.

It's come a looooong way since I came on and showed interest. It's been ever-increasing number of contributors ever since.

I don't claim to have built News Clippings up from nothing by myself... but a review of the archives reveals the level of my involvement in that huge growth spurt within this forum.

Let's hope that sitting behind a laptop 24/7 hasn't contributed to a huge growth spurt to your backside !

Seriously I recognise your dedication even though I almost always disagree with your editorial slant.

The backside's just fine, younghusband.

Hope yours is, too.

And yes, it's hard to recall someone with whom I've disagreed with more over the years other than The Master... but it's all been good.

It gives me a lot of satisfaction to know I spurred a lot of interest into this previous, little-visited corner of information and discussion.

The tribute was a sincere one.It's a pity you are so partisan..with a bit more balance you could have achieved much more.

Younghusband ! I shall add that to the various incarnations that have been suggested.Keep them coming.

[marshbags]

Yep... dem were da days of News Clippings... 0 replies and myself replying and perhaps 1 or 2 other replies.

It's come a looooong way since I came on and showed interest. It's been ever-increasing number of contributors ever since.

I don't claim to have built News Clippings up from nothing by myself... but a review of the archives reveals the level of my involvement in that huge growth spurt within this forum.

Let's hope that sitting behind a laptop 24/7 hasn't contributed to a huge growth spurt to your backside !

Seriously I recognise your dedication even though I almost always disagree with your editorial slant.

The backside's just fine, younghusband.

Hope yours is, too.

And yes, it's hard to recall someone with whom I've disagreed with more over the years other than The Master... but it's all been good.

It gives me a lot of satisfaction to know I spurred a lot of interest into this previous, little-visited corner of information and discussion.

You did so much more than generate / put the word debate and discussion back into this forum.

The majority of members if they are honest will also acknowledge you value relating to Thai Visa.

While you may not wish it SJ, I propose as a grateful member that admin elect you as an honourary member in recognition of your contributions and outstanding service over a long period of time to T.Visa, that is still ongoing and looks to continue for some time to come.

You deserve to be up there with those who have, IMHO, already and rightly earned their present status / promotions to " admin group" ect. considering your imput and unselfish work done on behalf of our membership.

Keep surfing the various threads, newly elected members to Admin ect. and offer your much valued experiences as old timer mods to the new whipper snappers " just joking " to enable them to run topics fairly and smoothly as you used to. ( and still do of course ).

Especially the drug war threads.....................pleaseeeeeeee.

As for Young Husband Mk. whatever, keep re enrolling as and when the next time requires it..and the next...and the next..and the nexttttttt

marshbags

Edited May 27, 2009 by marshbags

[rixalex]

Younghusband ! I shall add that to the various incarnations that have been suggested.Keep them coming.

Rather than adding the incarnation to those suggested, you could simply refute it. Or perhaps you can't?

[Plus]

I missed it.

You miss a lot, but we are used it.

Anyhow, the is getting again a bit to silly for me. have a nice day.

Ok, I'll look it up in Yellow pages myself - Deathsquads and raging mobs for hire, since 1976. Democrats can call but satisfaction is not guaranteed. There must be a number somewhere for "the System".

[Journalist]

While you may not wish it SJ, I propose as a grateful member that admin elect you as an honorary member in recognition of your contributions and outstanding service over a long period of time to T.Visa, that is still ongoing and looks to continue for some time to come.

You deserve to be up there with those who have, IMHO, already and rightly earned their present status / promotions to " admin group" ect. considering your imput and unselfish work done on behalf of our membership.

marshbags

Im sure he's been offered the 'Admin' part already and he'd certainly enjoy the banning part of that role.

However it would mean he has to display a semblance of editorial balance, and that would be a big ask.

One doesn't have to be made an honorary member....its already free !

[marshbags]

Im sure he's been offered the 'Admin' part already and he'd certainly enjoy the banning part of that role.

However it would mean he has to display a semblance of editorial balance, and that would be a big ask.

One doesn't have to be made an honorary member....its already free !

Ah but upstairs as it wer, away fro the riff raff ( aka bread and butter of our membership. )

One can also hold " several " honourary memberships of course, J

Enough of this, let us get back to the thread content and and it,s subject matter...............please before an off topic flag is raised.

SJ does, if you just take these tags / threads into consideration, keeps us all fully informed on the latest news and relative information while also taking part in the ongoing debate / debates.

This is typical of his much appreciated work ethos of course.

marshbags

Edited May 27, 2009 by marshbags

[justanothercybertosser]

This is typical of his much appreciated work ethos of course.

marshbags

Any more of that sycophantic mutual appreciation society and i have to throw up.

[meom]

Yes, if my daughter is a drug pusher. Your daughter is a drug user, and Plus's is a Rohingya. Then its mine that has to go overboard...its tough love. I won't have my child hurting another person's kid. I bring my child up that way strictly.

Is there really such a thing as a drug "pusher"? The way I see it most users start with drugs completely voluntarily and it's not like somebody is holding a gun to their head forcing drugs down their throat.