Penang: Good Place To Live?

[fred2007]

I really can't answer any of your questions, however Jim at: http://jimsplace-penang.com/ContactJim.html might be able to help. Keep us updated.

you have to be joking, he advised me to have 800.00.00 baht in the bank to get a 1 year visa, he knows

nothing, I met him 3 times he is an asshol_e just trying to make money.

[MJo]

And a big plus: The government actually seems sane.

Depends which way you look at it. Half of them are usually in jail on sodomy charges and remaining are even in power or demostrating in the streets. Lot of rioting in KL last year, it was the indians i believe. Lot of discrimination based on race, one good example is their education system with quotas based on race favoring the ruling elite.

[chickencurry]

Lot of discrimination based on race, one good example is their education system with quotas based on race favoring the ruling elite.

Ummm the posting is about Penang not KL. As I understand it, the new Penang government last year banned this crazy law. See newslink below from 2008.

Penang gov

[ALFREDO]

And what does the community here has to write and post about LANGKAWI?

Kind regards Alfred

[JR Texas]

And what does the community here has to write and post about LANGKAWI?

Kind regards Alfred

If you want to broaden this topic to include all of Malaysia feel free to do so........we have already pretty much exhausted Penang. What other good places are there in Malaysia that expats might like?

[chickencurry]

Langkawi? I had a holiday there about 3 years ago. I thought the scenery, beaches, food all terrific. In terms of a place to live, well it depends what you like doesn't it. For me, I think I would go stir-crazy - very quiet there and, at that time, not everything available in the shops. I believe the racial mix is high on Malay. Certainly in Kuah town, the main town, I felt a little uncomfortable/out of place as a Western woman.

There's no car ferry as such and no bridge. Cars can go ahead of you on a ferry, sounds like a bit of an ordeal.

If you like boating or yachting, there are I think 3 high quality marinas on the island (maybe 4) - all built and operating. We had some snacks/drinks at the marina near Kuah town, and it was just fabulous there.

Someone told me that the crime rate is very low there. Okay that's my 2 bahts worth.

[micky]

Some interesting facts (political) about Penang State.

To begin with Malaysia is a federation of 13 States (Negeri) and 3 federal territories.

The Prime Minister and Chief Ministers of all the other states are ethnic muslim Malays.

The ruling Government lost 5 States to oppostion parties in last year’s Genearal Elections.

First time in 50 years, the opposition party won and took over Penang.

Never happened before. First time in history, an ethnic Chinese from the opposition party

became the Chief Minister of Penang. First time in the history of Penang (after 50 years).

Kelantan and Kedah were won by the Islamist Party. (muslim Malays)

Perak and Selangor won by the PKR - a multi racial party. Their Chief Ministers

have to be muslim Malays .

Therefore only Penang State has a non-muslim Chief Minister (a ethnic Chinese) at the moment.

Have a pleasant trip. To me, Penang is a much better place to stay than KL. Friendly, less traffic jam

and the food, especially the Chinese food is fantastic. Best in the country, so to speak.

[Pash]

Hi......like many other expats, I am searching for an alternative to the insanity that Thailand presents, along with its anti-foreigner visa and business rules (and, no, I don't have a visa problem in Thailand).

Penang, Malaysia is catching my eye. I would like to hear from expats--especially those with experience living in both Thailand and Malaysia--what it is like living in Penang.

Any input on lifestyle, safety, schools, beaches, malls, housing (types/costs), food, visas, nightlife, and xenophobia (anti-Western attitudes) would be appreciated.

Thanks.

i will drive you to the airport , what time tomorrow suits ?

and take your umbrella and wig with you .

mistersteven, you make 2 of your first 6 posts here negative attacks. Get over your lame attitudes and look at the title of this forum, Southeast Asia

I agree with Mr Steven

JR has a negative tendency towards Thailand when he posts. Look at the words he used. Look at his other posts. Have a go at JR as well and me of course!

We are all guests in Thailand in reality and the guest should comply with the wishes of the host or leave.

[MJo]

Lot of discrimination based on race, one good example is their education system with quotas based on race favoring the ruling elite.

Ummm the posting is about Penang not KL. As I understand it, the new Penang government last year banned this crazy law. See newslink below from 2008.

Penang gov

Google still works

Well that is good news, step to right direction.

[JR Texas]

Some interesting facts (political) about Penang State.

To begin with Malaysia is a federation of 13 States (Negeri) and 3 federal territories.

The Prime Minister and Chief Ministers of all the other states are ethnic muslim Malays.

The ruling Government lost 5 States to oppostion parties in last year’s Genearal Elections.

First time in 50 years, the opposition party won and took over Penang.

Never happened before. First time in history, an ethnic Chinese from the opposition party

became the Chief Minister of Penang. First time in the history of Penang (after 50 years).

Kelantan and Kedah were won by the Islamist Party. (muslim Malays)

Perak and Selangor won by the PKR - a multi racial party. Their Chief Ministers

have to be muslim Malays .

Therefore only Penang State has a non-muslim Chief Minister (a ethnic Chinese) at the moment.

Have a pleasant trip. To me, Penang is a much better place to stay than KL. Friendly, less traffic jam

and the food, especially the Chinese food is fantastic. Best in the country, so to speak.

Interesting post..........you are not the first poster to mention how friendly the people seem to be in Penang......and I might like it just for the Chinese food.

[Richie1971]

Some interesting facts (political) about Penang State.

To begin with Malaysia is a federation of 13 States (Negeri) and 3 federal territories.

The Prime Minister and Chief Ministers of all the other states are ethnic muslim Malays.

The ruling Government lost 5 States to oppostion parties in last year’s Genearal Elections.

First time in 50 years, the opposition party won and took over Penang.

Never happened before. First time in history, an ethnic Chinese from the opposition party

became the Chief Minister of Penang. First time in the history of Penang (after 50 years).

Kelantan and Kedah were won by the Islamist Party. (muslim Malays)

Perak and Selangor won by the PKR - a multi racial party. Their Chief Ministers

have to be muslim Malays .

Therefore only Penang State has a non-muslim Chief Minister (a ethnic Chinese) at the moment.

Have a pleasant trip. To me, Penang is a much better place to stay than KL. Friendly, less traffic jam

and the food, especially the Chinese food is fantastic. Best in the country, so to speak.

Interesting post..........you are not the first poster to mention how friendly the people seem to be in Penang......and I might like it just for the Chinese food.

Bloody expensive Beer - try Langkawi duty free island

[fox]

Being born in Malaysia (an ethnic Chinese) , holds a Malaysian passport, and a frequent traveler to Thailand, I would like to say something “mesmerizing” about Penang.

The properties, land, houses in Penang are the most expensive in the country, more expensive than KL.

Penang is the most ideal place for retirees, pensioners, foreigners, to stay (provided of course you have the funds to live comfortably).

As a matter of fact the late First Prime Minister after he had retired from politics, bought a house in Penang situated near the sea and lived there.

Penang is the second largest city, next to KL.

Of course nothing is perfect. As a foreigner you have no problems. You can’t vote and you can’t hold any political positions and therefore you will be OK there. In Thai, “Mai mee pan ha! Mai pen rai!” , so to speak.

I understand there is a special program for eligible foreigners. It’s called “ Malaysia My Second Home “. Please check it out. Bty, English is widely spoken there. In fact, High Court cases could be conducted in English with special permission. And of course, Chinese is also widely spoken there. The official language is the Malay Language. I speak 4 languages, Malay, Chinese, English, and a bit of Thai. Bty, I speak English more ….. even to my Chinese friends. It has been a normal norm to speak Chinese and English at the same time. It may sound strange to you…… but this is What Malaysia Is All About !

And talking about Chinese food. Yes it’s really fantastic. Even Hong Kong film stars have something good to say about the Chinese food in KL, Penang and Ipoh. The food is fantastic (provided of course you love Chinese food). Have a pleasant trip.

[eek]

Fox, would be interesting to read your perspective on how you think Western women are perceived. Particularly if unaccompanied. Again, my own experience was some time back. This is not meant to infer anything negative. Would be good to read first hand your perspective on this, as it may benefit a lot of female travellers/expats interested in visiting or staying in Penang. Tnx!

[fred2007]

That guy is a visa agent. I'd trust him about as much as an estate agent.

At least some one is seing the right picture he knows nothing at all he is just worried about his commision I have mentioned many times on TV in different threads he's got no clue at all.

He told me I had to have 800.000 in the bank for a new multiple O visa so I went to Kl and got it without a prove to have any money in the bank at all. He is a scum bag

[JR Texas]

Being born in Malaysia (an ethnic Chinese) , holds a Malaysian passport, and a frequent traveler to Thailand, I would like to say something “mesmerizing” about Penang.

The properties, land, houses in Penang are the most expensive in the country, more expensive than KL.

Penang is the most ideal place for retirees, pensioners, foreigners, to stay (provided of course you have the funds to live comfortably).

As a matter of fact the late First Prime Minister after he had retired from politics, bought a house in Penang situated near the sea and lived there.

Penang is the second largest city, next to KL.

Of course nothing is perfect. As a foreigner you have no problems. You can’t vote and you can’t hold any political positions and therefore you will be OK there. In Thai, “Mai mee pan ha! Mai pen rai!” , so to speak.

I understand there is a special program for eligible foreigners. It’s called “ Malaysia My Second Home “. Please check it out. Bty, English is widely spoken there. In fact, High Court cases could be conducted in English with special permission. And of course, Chinese is also widely spoken there. The official language is the Malay Language. I speak 4 languages, Malay, Chinese, English, and a bit of Thai. Bty, I speak English more ….. even to my Chinese friends. It has been a normal norm to speak Chinese and English at the same time. It may sound strange to you…… but this is What Malaysia Is All About !

And talking about Chinese food. Yes it’s really fantastic. Even Hong Kong film stars have something good to say about the Chinese food in KL, Penang and Ipoh. The food is fantastic (provided of course you love Chinese food). Have a pleasant trip.

You wouldn't happen to be single would you? None of my business of course. Thanks for the excellent and very informative and mezmerizing post.

[fred2007]

I must agree with fox I do travel every 3 month to Penang to do my border run and I find the people over there very frindly and also helpful. Well I am not in to chinese food a lot but the indian food is also out standing and to top it all up at least you can buy your own property over there and retire. No hassles with border runs

[fox]

Hi eek,

First thing first. To begin with, there are many Westeners living in KL and Penang. They have adapted to the daily life and system there.

Coming to the question of a single unaccompanied Western girl, I have this to say. To begin with, any single, young and pretty girl would attract attention to the males. For that matter, a young, pretty Chinese, Malay, or Indian girl would attract attention.

As a single, young and pretty Western girl, you will get extra attention. The reason is this. In Malaysia, and being Asians, they are so used to looking at the same familiar Asian girls. Same goes to Western men, the young and pretty Asian girls would “ mesmerized “ them, so to speak.

Now lets talk about safety and security. For that matter, be careful, alert and be careful not to walk alone in deserted and lonely places. Do not trust strangers. Do not stay out too late at night if you are alone.

I have come across a young and single American girl doing missionary work in Ipoh, Malaysia, and she had no problems, and enjoyed her stay there.

Bty, when I was in Thailand, the Thai girls also attracted my attention. To me the Thai girls look more attractive than our Malaysian girls. Ha ha ha !

Have a pleasant trip. "Chode di nah, krap ! Sawatdi.

[eek]

Thanks for your reply fox.

[tigerbeer]

And what does the community here has to write and post about LANGKAWI?

Kind regards Alfred

If you want to broaden this topic to include all of Malaysia feel free to do so........we have already pretty much exhausted Penang. What other good places are there in Malaysia that expats might like?

First of all, I'd like to write on my views of Penang. Malaysians love Penang for its food and beaches. A lot of culture in PEnang for the Indians and the Chinese as well. Old places of worship and a lot of history. Like others have mentioned on this thread, there are fewer malays here as compared to other races. Yes its quiet. And IMO its quiet to most of you because you are used to the nightlife here in Thailand with sweeties all around waiting to be of company to you. Thats got to be at least 80% of why penang is quiet and boring to most people (especially to those who currently or have lived in Thailand). Again its my opinion so no need to get all worked up about it. Malaysia My Second Home is a very fair scheme to attract foreigners. No doubt its a winner. Here in Thailand, all we get are changing regulations to visa requirements. Penang has its own charm, nice to some, dull to others. So to the OP, you really have to spend some time in Penang to see if you like it or not.

Crime in Penang is not as bad as it is in KL or Johor Bahru. Then again, how safe is Bangkok, Pattaya and Phuket? How many farang murder cases have we read about recently in Thailand? Id say quite a handful. Crime's everyone on this planet, depends on your luck i guess.

As far as racial issues are concerned, yes there are some tensions from time to time but nothing out of scale. The indians and chinese do not get many benefits given to malays. But nothing out of concern to foreigners. Racial tensions are on a very small scale. Tensions are nothing like the kinds we get here in Thailand such as those of the gatherings of the red shirts and the yellow shirts. You can always leave the place for a while if anything does pop up.

Having said that, Airasia flies all around Malaysia and at a bargain too. Go check airasia right now and you can fly domestic for less than 1k Baht all taxes included to most destinations. (of course if you plan a little bit in advance). So exploring Malaysia is not expensive or difficult. Flying out of Penang in case you get bored is always a possibility. My personal places of interest would be Camerons and Gentings (casino) for highlands. Tioman, Langkawi, Perhentian, Redang for its beaches. Quiet beaches? yes but definitely breathtaking and relaxing. Langkawi and Tioman are also designated as duty free islands so alcohol is dirt cheap. Diving and snorkelling in Tioman, Redang and Perhentian.

Langkawi can be an option. But if you find Penang boring, then you can forget about living in Langkawi. Its very quiet especially for the nightlife. BUT, its an amazingly beautiful island. Been designated as a geopark. Most of the beautiful beaches are on the western part of the island. The main town in Langkawi is called Kuah and it takes about 30 minutes to drive to there from the popular beach area of Cenang. The northern part of the island has some really beautiful beaches and the higher priced hotels such as the Andaman, Four Seasons, Tanjung Rhu. They have some foreign restaurants all around the island. Many thai restaurants as well cause its very close to Thailand. Speaking of which, the Tarutao National Park is just north of Langkawi and is accessible by ferry from Langkawi. Koh Lipe is gaining popularity among tourists. Langkawi is also connected to Penang by daily ferries and one can take a flight from Penang to Langkawi with Fireflyz Air ( a subsidiary of Malaysian Airlines System).

To the OP, living in Penang does not mean being confined to just Penang. You can always take a short flight to Bangkok, Jakarta, Macau, Singapore and the rest of Malaysia with Airasia.

TB..

edit: i know its nothing to do with Penang but just wanted to attach a picture of Tioman island and why i like that place so much. hope you guys like it.

Edited June 17, 2009 by tigerbeer

[THAIPHUKET]

1. is the rainy season longer, wetter than e.g. Phuket?

2. looking for alternatives to Phuket, too crowded , too non- Thai, too---------- many things.

Assuming a 10 year visa for myself, any legal way can my Thai partner can stay?

[fox]

1. is the rainy season longer, wetter than e.g. Phuket?

2. looking for alternatives to Phuket, too crowded , too non- Thai, too---------- many things.

Assuming a 10 year visa for myself, any legal way can my Thai partner can stay?

Hi THAIPHUKET,

Pardon me for saying, there is no such 10 year visa to enter Malaysia.

You can stay 5 or 10 years, or as the case may be, if you are qualified for the "Malaysia My Second Home" program.

However, under normal circumstances, a Thai national would be given a 30 days stay on arrival.

And if you are on a "Work Permit", you can stay as long as the company (in Malaysia) needs you.

I am told that there are some foreigners who are given PR status. What are the criteria ? I wouldn't know. Please check it out.

They are very strict about giving PR status. I know of a Tawianese wife married to a Malaysian Chinese..... it took her more than

10 donkey years to get her PR. Some cases, worst, still pending. That was all I was told. Please check it out.

[chickencurry]

Pardon me for saying, there is no such 10 year visa to enter Malaysia.

Pardon me for saying, there IS a 10 year visa (renewable) for Malaysia called the Malaysia My Second Home visa (MM2H). No reason why ThaiPhuket or his partner could apply individually, providing they both meet the criteria. If ThaiPhuket's partner wanted to be included as a dependent, I think she/he would need to be married to ThaiPhuket. Anyhow, you can check for yourself on the government website ...

MM2H

[Nignoy]

Lots of interesting comments on penang and malaysia, the whole malaysian setup vis a vis foreigners is a not as in your face as thailand , quiet definitely, boring never happen, of course if you are just a walking street or patong escapee on a visa mission, and have to have girlie bars and coyote dancers to have fun then you wont find any!!But for married retirees and semi retired it is ideal!! a 90day visa everytime you enter the country if you dont want want to go into the MM2H scheme,genuine offers of cheap long term furnished accomodation with human landlords, easily available insurance and excellent car hire facilities all this is on offer on penang, on the mainland it is even cheaper, we rent a 2 bedroom airconditioned furnished condo for up to 5 and a half months every year, no problems , no pissed up parties at all hours, mrs nignoy is over there with the grandkids now, she would never have taken them to our place in Huahin on her own,she can also quite safely drive around penang without fear of being stopped for teamoney , as soon as our brissie house is sold, then it will be a case of 4 weeks ayear holiday in Qld and 11 months a year slit between malaysia, singapore, and 3 or 4 weeks courtesy visits to isaan, If I cark it first the wife has the kids to go to, wont even think about her goin first, If you are in georgetown and you see 2 smiling teletubbies in an orange mini, give us a wave its mr and mrs nignoy enjoying penang

[JR Texas]

And what does the community here has to write and post about LANGKAWI?

Kind regards Alfred

If you want to broaden this topic to include all of Malaysia feel free to do so........we have already pretty much exhausted Penang. What other good places are there in Malaysia that expats might like?

First of all, I'd like to write on my views of Penang. Malaysians love Penang for its food and beaches. A lot of culture in PEnang for the Indians and the Chinese as well. Old places of worship and a lot of history. Like others have mentioned on this thread, there are fewer malays here as compared to other races. Yes its quiet. And IMO its quiet to most of you because you are used to the nightlife here in Thailand with sweeties all around waiting to be of company to you. Thats got to be at least 80% of why penang is quiet and boring to most people (especially to those who currently or have lived in Thailand). Again its my opinion so no need to get all worked up about it. Malaysia My Second Home is a very fair scheme to attract foreigners. No doubt its a winner. Here in Thailand, all we get are changing regulations to visa requirements. Penang has its own charm, nice to some, dull to others. So to the OP, you really have to spend some time in Penang to see if you like it or not.

Crime in Penang is not as bad as it is in KL or Johor Bahru. Then again, how safe is Bangkok, Pattaya and Phuket? How many farang murder cases have we read about recently in Thailand? Id say quite a handful. Crime's everyone on this planet, depends on your luck i guess.

As far as racial issues are concerned, yes there are some tensions from time to time but nothing out of scale. The indians and chinese do not get many benefits given to malays. But nothing out of concern to foreigners. Racial tensions are on a very small scale. Tensions are nothing like the kinds we get here in Thailand such as those of the gatherings of the red shirts and the yellow shirts. You can always leave the place for a while if anything does pop up.

Having said that, Airasia flies all around Malaysia and at a bargain too. Go check airasia right now and you can fly domestic for less than 1k Baht all taxes included to most destinations. (of course if you plan a little bit in advance). So exploring Malaysia is not expensive or difficult. Flying out of Penang in case you get bored is always a possibility. My personal places of interest would be Camerons and Gentings (casino) for highlands. Tioman, Langkawi, Perhentian, Redang for its beaches. Quiet beaches? yes but definitely breathtaking and relaxing. Langkawi and Tioman are also designated as duty free islands so alcohol is dirt cheap. Diving and snorkelling in Tioman, Redang and Perhentian.

Langkawi can be an option. But if you find Penang boring, then you can forget about living in Langkawi. Its very quiet especially for the nightlife. BUT, its an amazingly beautiful island. Been designated as a geopark. Most of the beautiful beaches are on the western part of the island. The main town in Langkawi is called Kuah and it takes about 30 minutes to drive to there from the popular beach area of Cenang. The northern part of the island has some really beautiful beaches and the higher priced hotels such as the Andaman, Four Seasons, Tanjung Rhu. They have some foreign restaurants all around the island. Many thai restaurants as well cause its very close to Thailand. Speaking of which, the Tarutao National Park is just north of Langkawi and is accessible by ferry from Langkawi. Koh Lipe is gaining popularity among tourists. Langkawi is also connected to Penang by daily ferries and one can take a flight from Penang to Langkawi with Fireflyz Air ( a subsidiary of Malaysian Airlines System).

To the OP, living in Penang does not mean being confined to just Penang. You can always take a short flight to Bangkok, Jakarta, Macau, Singapore and the rest of Malaysia with Airasia.

TB..

edit: i know its nothing to do with Penang but just wanted to attach a picture of Tioman island and why i like that place so much. hope you guys like it.

Great, informative post......seemed fair and unbiased (unlike a certain news program with a name like an animal).

The picture of the beach and water was beautiful.

Penang looks like good alternative to Thailand-Titanic.......a good base from which to explore the rest of Asia.

[samran]

Great, informative post......seemed fair and unbiased (unlike a certain news program with a name like an animal).

The picture of the beach and water was beautiful.

Penang looks like good alternative to Thailand-Titanic.......a good base from which to explore the rest of Asia.

How ironic. From a man who bleats on about racism in Thailand, he is considering moving to a country where discrimination is at the very heart of the social contract of the country.

I guess all he really cares about is so long as he isn't made to feel inferior, then a country is OK.

I'll buy your ticket for you JR.

Oh, I forgot, you have me on ignore. You had me at ignore to!!!

[wayfarer108]

I was waiting for someone to make that point. I lived in Malaysia for a year, and the institutional racism there, in terms of the 'bhumiputra' stacked deck against any non-Malay or non-Muslim, became increasingly annoying. Along with the fact that the three major groups - Chinese, Indian, Malay - were constantly putting down the other two behind their backs, using foreign residents as sounding boards. 'Lazy muslims,' 'greedy Chinese,' and 'dirty Indians' are phrases you hear in conversation almost daily.

I'm not saying that there's more racism in Malaysia than in Thailand, only that it's more overt and more institutionalised there. Don't forget that shariah (Islamic law) in Malaysia applies to non-Muslims, including foreigners, when the offence involves a local Muslim. Get caught in a room with a closed door, with a Muslim woman who you are not married to, and you can be caned for khalwat (proximity). Zinni (sexual relations with a Muslim you are not married to) can earn you jail prison time, and sodomy with either sex, ditto.

JR would learn a lot from the experience though

[wayfarer108]

Some interesting facts (political) about Penang State.

To begin with Malaysia is a federation of 13 States (Negeri) and 3 federal territories.

The Prime Minister and Chief Ministers of all the other states are ethnic muslim Malays.

The ruling Government lost 5 States to oppostion parties in last year’s Genearal Elections.

First time in 50 years, the opposition party won and took over Penang.

Never happened before. First time in history, an ethnic Chinese from the opposition party

became the Chief Minister of Penang. First time in the history of Penang (after 50 years).

Kelantan and Kedah were won by the Islamist Party. (muslim Malays)

Perak and Selangor won by the PKR - a multi racial party. Their Chief Ministers

have to be muslim Malays .

Therefore only Penang State has a non-muslim Chief Minister (a ethnic Chinese) at the moment.

Have a pleasant trip. To me, Penang is a much better place to stay than KL. Friendly, less traffic jam

and the food, especially the Chinese food is fantastic. Best in the country, so to speak.

Interesting post..........you are not the first poster to mention how friendly the people seem to be in Penang......and I might like it just for the Chinese food.

But JR, they don't cook it in the American takeout style. It's mostly Hokkien, just like in Phuket, Ranong, Hat Yai and Yaowarat

[tigerbeer]

I was waiting for someone to make that point. I lived in Malaysia for a year, and the institutional racism there, in terms of the 'bhumiputra' stacked deck against any non-Malay or non-Muslim, became increasingly annoying. Along with the fact that the three major groups - Chinese, Indian, Malay - were constantly putting down the other two behind their backs, using foreign residents as sounding boards. 'Lazy muslims,' 'greedy Chinese,' and 'dirty Indians' are phrases you hear in conversation almost daily.

I'm not saying that there's more racism in Malaysia than in Thailand, only that it's more overt and more institutionalised there. Don't forget that shariah (Islamic law) in Malaysia applies to non-Muslims, including foreigners, when the offence involves a local Muslim. Get caught in a room with a closed door, with a Muslim woman who you are not married to, and you can be caned for khalwat (proximity). Zinni (sexual relations with a Muslim you are not married to) can earn you jail prison time, and sodomy with either sex, ditto.

JR would learn a lot from the experience though

you are right about racism in that sense. institutionalised. there have been a lot of changes though over the years. perhaps very slowly but its happening. Indians standing up for their rights, the younger generation putting racism behind and being more open to each other's cultures. mixed marriages. the ruling coalition govt have been losing votes big time as well over the last election. more questions coming up ranging for A to Z. things are changing for the better.

what i don't understand is that why can't one focus on the positivity of a country. malaysia has very warm people. very inviting. its a beautiful country as well. i have not known one person who has been caught for Khalwat. Mind you I am a Malaysian. If thats how the Malays feel about it, then just stay away from close proximity unless you are married to her/him. Being a non-muslim, i have never been faced by any Syariah Laws. Perhaps more applicable to the "fanatical" states such as Kelantan etc. it is however no secret that the bumiputras are treated better than us but i had a great time being brought up in malaysia with top notch public education, healthcare etc etc. what you can only dream of in many countries unless you are filthy rich.

one thing everyone should do is look back at their own home, where they come from and think of all the bad qualities your own country has. If a country is nice enough to let you live comfortably in their country, then one should appreciate it. why not live in your own country if its such a perfect state? not trying to be offensive to anyone but it would be nicer not to condemn other people's home.

[fox]

I was waiting for someone to make that point. I lived in Malaysia for a year, and the institutional racism there, in terms of the 'bhumiputra' stacked deck against any non-Malay or non-Muslim, became increasingly annoying. Along with the fact that the three major groups - Chinese, Indian, Malay - were constantly putting down the other two behind their backs, using foreign residents as sounding boards. 'Lazy muslims,' 'greedy Chinese,' and 'dirty Indians' are phrases you hear in conversation almost daily.

I'm not saying that there's more racism in Malaysia than in Thailand, only that it's more overt and more institutionalised there. Don't forget that shariah (Islamic law) in Malaysia applies to non-Muslims, including foreigners, when the offence involves a local Muslim. Get caught in a room with a closed door, with a Muslim woman who you are not married to, and you can be caned for khalwat (proximity). Zinni (sexual relations with a Muslim you are not married to) can earn you jail prison time, and sodomy with either sex, ditto.

JR would learn a lot from the experience though

A corrrection here, please !

The Syariah Law only applies to muslims.

Assuming that a non-muslim man is caught in a room with a muslim woman (not his wife)..... the muslim woman would be punished, and not the non-muslim man.

However, the man would be called in as a witness.

In Malaysia, Islamic Laws only applies to Muslims. For example, muslims caught drinking alcohol is an offence. For non-muslims, they can drink till the cows come home. I repeat again, Syariah Law only applies to muslims. (That is for the moment, unless they admend the Federal Constitution - which in unlikely,

because the muslim population is around 55% , more or less).

[micky]

Hi,

I attach more info on Islamic (Syariah) laws in Malaysia for your reading. Something we should know. Read on !

Legal Implications of Conversion to Islam In Malaysia

Document issued by the Catholic Bishops Conference of Malaysia

“The Legal Implications of Conversion to Islam”

Dear Bothers and Sisters in the Lord,

If you convert to Islam, there are important changes to your legal status and what you can or cannot do.

Your conversion to Islam will be registered with the Religious Department and the National Registration Department, both of which are computerized so access to this information is available throughout the country.

Under Syariah enactments of most of the 13 States of Malaysia:

Conversion back to your former religion is either (a) not allowed under the law, or ( a criminal offence which means that you may be fined, whipped, detained or imprisoned under most State Islamic laws.

If you are under 18 years of age, you require your parent’s permission to convert to Islam. Your identity card will record your conversion to Islam.

Therefore, even if you are no longer practicing Islam, you may be fined, whipped, detained, or imprisoned for violation of Syariah laws such as praying in Church, eating in public during fasting month, “Khalwat” etc.

You cannot marry a non-Muslim. If you decide to divorce and attempt to convert out of Islam, you will lose custody of your children because they are Muslims.

Upon death, your non-Muslim relatives will lose their rights to any property, money, etc. that you want to leave to them. The corpse of a convert to Islam will be taken away from his or her non-Muslim family for Islamic rites and burial even if you have not been a practising (sic) Muslim for many years.

In the event that your spouse converts to Islam, you may have no right to either your children or your spouse’s property.

We know that certain Christians who convert to Islam for whatever reasons, are not aware of or do not consider seriously the implications of such conversion. Hence, the need to inform you (sic).

By this, we are neither against Islam nor freedom of religion, which is guaranteed for all Malaysians in Article 11 of our Constitution which give the right to an individual to choose freely his or her religion.

But to choose correctly, you need to know clearly what you choose and the consequences of your choice.

This is signed by:

Archbishop Murphy Pakiam, Archbishop of Kuala Lumpur; Bishop Antony Selvanayagam, Bishop of Penang; Bishop Paul Tan, S.J., Bishop of Melaka-Johor