Penang: Good Place To Live?

[JR Texas]

Hi,

I attach more info on Islamic (Syariah) laws in Malaysia for your reading. Something we should know. Read on !

Legal Implications of Conversion to Islam In Malaysia

Document issued by the Catholic Bishops Conference of Malaysia

“The Legal Implications of Conversion to Islam”

Dear Bothers and Sisters in the Lord,

If you convert to Islam, there are important changes to your legal status and what you can or cannot do.

Your conversion to Islam will be registered with the Religious Department and the National Registration Department, both of which are computerized so access to this information is available throughout the country.

Under Syariah enactments of most of the 13 States of Malaysia:

Conversion back to your former religion is either (a) not allowed under the law, or ( a criminal offence which means that you may be fined, whipped, detained or imprisoned under most State Islamic laws.

If you are under 18 years of age, you require your parent’s permission to convert to Islam. Your identity card will record your conversion to Islam.

Therefore, even if you are no longer practicing Islam, you may be fined, whipped, detained, or imprisoned for violation of Syariah laws such as praying in Church, eating in public during fasting month, “Khalwat” etc.

You cannot marry a non-Muslim. If you decide to divorce and attempt to convert out of Islam, you will lose custody of your children because they are Muslims.

Upon death, your non-Muslim relatives will lose their rights to any property, money, etc. that you want to leave to them. The corpse of a convert to Islam will be taken away from his or her non-Muslim family for Islamic rites and burial even if you have not been a practising (sic) Muslim for many years.

In the event that your spouse converts to Islam, you may have no right to either your children or your spouse’s property.

We know that certain Christians who convert to Islam for whatever reasons, are not aware of or do not consider seriously the implications of such conversion. Hence, the need to inform you (sic).

By this, we are neither against Islam nor freedom of religion, which is guaranteed for all Malaysians in Article 11 of our Constitution which give the right to an individual to choose freely his or her religion.

But to choose correctly, you need to know clearly what you choose and the consequences of your choice.

This is signed by:

Archbishop Murphy Pakiam, Archbishop of Kuala Lumpur; Bishop Antony Selvanayagam, Bishop of Penang; Bishop Paul Tan, S.J., Bishop of Melaka-Johor

I spent considerable time in the Middle East and found the non-radical followers of Islam to be kind, non-aggressive and tolerant of foreigners (but not every tolerate of different religious views).

My guess is that most of the followers of Islam in Malaysia are of this type and not the radical type.

I do remember, about 9 years ago, being in a city in northeastern Malaysia and feeling like I was not wanted. But that area is no doubt not representative of Malaysia as a whole.

Penang seems an ethnic melting pot. I find that interesting.....different cultural units.......different music......different foods.

[tigerbeer]

Hi,

I attach more info on Islamic (Syariah) laws in Malaysia for your reading. Something we should know. Read on !

Legal Implications of Conversion to Islam In Malaysia

Document issued by the Catholic Bishops Conference of Malaysia

“The Legal Implications of Conversion to Islam”

Dear Bothers and Sisters in the Lord,

If you convert to Islam, there are important changes to your legal status and what you can or cannot do.

Your conversion to Islam will be registered with the Religious Department and the National Registration Department, both of which are computerized so access to this information is available throughout the country.

Under Syariah enactments of most of the 13 States of Malaysia:

Conversion back to your former religion is either (a) not allowed under the law, or ( a criminal offence which means that you may be fined, whipped, detained or imprisoned under most State Islamic laws.

If you are under 18 years of age, you require your parent’s permission to convert to Islam. Your identity card will record your conversion to Islam.

Therefore, even if you are no longer practicing Islam, you may be fined, whipped, detained, or imprisoned for violation of Syariah laws such as praying in Church, eating in public during fasting month, “Khalwat” etc.

You cannot marry a non-Muslim. If you decide to divorce and attempt to convert out of Islam, you will lose custody of your children because they are Muslims.

Upon death, your non-Muslim relatives will lose their rights to any property, money, etc. that you want to leave to them. The corpse of a convert to Islam will be taken away from his or her non-Muslim family for Islamic rites and burial even if you have not been a practising (sic) Muslim for many years.

In the event that your spouse converts to Islam, you may have no right to either your children or your spouse’s property.

We know that certain Christians who convert to Islam for whatever reasons, are not aware of or do not consider seriously the implications of such conversion. Hence, the need to inform you (sic).

By this, we are neither against Islam nor freedom of religion, which is guaranteed for all Malaysians in Article 11 of our Constitution which give the right to an individual to choose freely his or her religion.

But to choose correctly, you need to know clearly what you choose and the consequences of your choice.

This is signed by:

Archbishop Murphy Pakiam, Archbishop of Kuala Lumpur; Bishop Antony Selvanayagam, Bishop of Penang; Bishop Paul Tan, S.J., Bishop of Melaka-Johor

lol... sure lets get the point of view from an Archbishop ! there is also probably a long article from the local mosque about what would happen to you if u convert to being a Christian etc etc.

Edited June 20, 2009 by tigerbeer

[chickencurry]

A couple of good postings from TigerB. Some other posters are getting verrrrry

The thread is about whether Penang is a good place to live. Err that is Penang which has, I believe, a majority of Chinese Malaysians and has a Chinese Malaysian in charge of the island. Sure, there are muslims. There's also a lot of muslims where I live - Phuket! So what.

[wayfarer108]

I was waiting for someone to make that point. I lived in Malaysia for a year, and the institutional racism there, in terms of the 'bhumiputra' stacked deck against any non-Malay or non-Muslim, became increasingly annoying. Along with the fact that the three major groups - Chinese, Indian, Malay - were constantly putting down the other two behind their backs, using foreign residents as sounding boards. 'Lazy muslims,' 'greedy Chinese,' and 'dirty Indians' are phrases you hear in conversation almost daily.

I'm not saying that there's more racism in Malaysia than in Thailand, only that it's more overt and more institutionalised there. Don't forget that shariah (Islamic law) in Malaysia applies to non-Muslims, including foreigners, when the offence involves a local Muslim. Get caught in a room with a closed door, with a Muslim woman who you are not married to, and you can be caned for khalwat (proximity). Zinni (sexual relations with a Muslim you are not married to) can earn you jail prison time, and sodomy with either sex, ditto.

JR would learn a lot from the experience though

you are right about racism in that sense. institutionalised. there have been a lot of changes though over the years. perhaps very slowly but its happening. Indians standing up for their rights, the younger generation putting racism behind and being more open to each other's cultures. mixed marriages. the ruling coalition govt have been losing votes big time as well over the last election. more questions coming up ranging for A to Z. things are changing for the better.

what i don't understand is that why can't one focus on the positivity of a country. malaysia has very warm people. very inviting. its a beautiful country as well. i have not known one person who has been caught for Khalwat. Mind you I am a Malaysian. If thats how the Malays feel about it, then just stay away from close proximity unless you are married to her/him. Being a non-muslim, i have never been faced by any Syariah Laws. Perhaps more applicable to the "fanatical" states such as Kelantan etc. it is however no secret that the bumiputras are treated better than us but i had a great time being brought up in malaysia with top notch public education, healthcare etc etc. what you can only dream of in many countries unless you are filthy rich.

one thing everyone should do is look back at their own home, where they come from and think of all the bad qualities your own country has. If a country is nice enough to let you live comfortably in their country, then one should appreciate it. why not live in your own country if its such a perfect state? not trying to be offensive to anyone but it would be nicer not to condemn other people's home.

tigerbeer, I see your point, and I apologize if I've caused any offence, I didn't realise you were Malaysian (not that that's any excuse for saying anything offensive). In fact I mostly enjoyed my stay in Malaysia, but the racial tension did get on my nerves after awhile. It's a lot more on the surface than in Thailand, in my opinion. As a Malaysian you may not notice it as much, or be used to it. But there is a lot of beauty in the country, and I would gladly go on holiday there again.

On shariah, I had a colleague at MARA Institute of Technology charged with khalwat when he was reported to the religious police for having a female student in his office with the door closed. The instructor was of Indian descent. He wasn't convicted but it became a blot on his univeristy record and stalled promotions, etc. I was told by staff at that university (with an all-Malay student body as tigerbeer will know) that the law did apply to non-Muslims when a Muslim was involved. I'm ready to stand corrected if someone can provide a legal citation.

Having followed JR's posts on other topics having to do with cultural points, I must say I doubt he would like living anywhere in Malaysia, even in Penang. Just my opinion. I envision him on a Malaysia expats forum a year or two from now moaning about how the food doesn't taste right and the locals are taking advantage of him

No offence to JR either, I hope he finds happiness somewhere

[JR Texas]

A couple of good postings from TigerB. Some other posters are getting verrrrry

The thread is about whether Penang is a good place to live. Err that is Penang which has, I believe, a majority of Chinese Malaysians and has a Chinese Malaysian in charge of the island. Sure, there are muslims. There's also a lot of muslims where I live - Phuket! So what.

Thanks for the posts. With the exception of the negative posts that were designed to disrupt our discussion (from the love Thailand or leave it crowd), most were informative.

[tigerbeer]

On shariah, I had a colleague at MARA Institute of Technology charged with khalwat when he was reported to the religious police for having a female student in his office with the door closed. The instructor was of Indian descent. He wasn't convicted but it became a blot on his univeristy record and stalled promotions, etc. I was told by staff at that university (with an all-Malay student body as tigerbeer will know) that the law did apply to non-Muslims when a Muslim was involved. I'm ready to stand corrected if someone can provide a legal citation.

what was he doing working at MARA anyways?? lol. MARA is totally a bumiputra thing. Yes you are absolutely right, when there is a muslim involved, then the case goes to the Syariah court.

only have something going on with a muslim if you intend to marry her/him and you are ready to be converted to being a muslim. Otherwise many lovely women of different race available for your companionship (if thats what you are looking for)

[torrenova]

I have some friends who have left the more populated places in Thailand and moved to less western populated places, many to the south, rather than the Isaan wasteland. They are happier and have less hassles than they did where they were before but they do still have to deal with the Thai bureaucracy and other crap though they report the locals being way better than those with more experience of the westerner. perhaps an alternative is no to move country but to move area ?

However, Thailand is going down the road of being less welcome to foreigners. And when the subject which no-one can speak about comes to pass, who knows what will happen ? Flip a coin and see !

That leaves those who want to reside in SE Asia with some serious questions. I'm sure Malaysia offers some great alternatives and perhaps the land and property ownership issues they have swing it in their favour. However, I don't reckon I could consider it withtout extensive research and certainly not with a Thai family or partner.

As for Panang in particular, I've only been a few times and would place it as a small Asian town with some infrastructure but I'm not sure it would be a place to retire or live.

[Electra]

One word: BORING!

It's like Malaysia as a whole...more advanced that Thailand, with commensurate higher cost of living, but not as expensive as Singapore (but not as developed). People are nice and generally well spoken in English. Having been colonized by the Brits and being a truly multi-racial and religious society, though there are tensions and some problems, Malaysians are generally more open to other cultures, have more interest in the world outside Malaysia, and just more worldly than most Thais.

Food can be very good in Malaysia and is as cheap or cheaper than Thailand. Weather is about the same. Penang is not very scenic and has crappy beaches and dirty water (it sits right on the busiest shipping lane in the world...the Malacca Straits) and months of horrendous air pollution every year from forest clearing burns in Sumatra next door.

Entertainment (cinema, TV, bars, bowling, nitelife, whatever) is nothing compared to Thailand. I used to go stir-crazy having to stay there just 1 or 2 nites processing a visa in the past. If if wasn't for the complete boredom factor, it might be a nice alternative to Thailand.

However, some places on the Malaysian mainland might be interesting.

I have visited Penang many times and not necessarily because of visa requirements and can say that I have never seen a day when the air was polluted by forest clearance. I rather think the poster is confusing Penang with the East coast which can be affected by the practices of those on Borneo/Kalimantan/Sabah.

Similarly, I am somewhat bemused by the reference to crappy beaches. The beach at Batu Ferringhi, in comparison to Pattaya say, is a veritable paradise. It is invariably clean, free of rubbish and in total contrast to most strands in Thailand is devoid of itinerant peddlars. With the exception of the summer months when the Iranian and Middle Eastern tourists descend in numbers, the beach is almost deserted in parts and finding a spot for peaceful contemplation is never a challenge.The water quality far exceeds that of Pattaya/Jomtien and one never detects the whiff of sewage that is synonymous with Thai developed areas.

Granted, Penang is quiet but that's the whole point of the place and a welcome contrast to the hurly burly of the LoS.

I have long considered a perfect retirement to be a condo in Penang and renting something in Bangers splitting time equally.

[tigerbeer]

I have visited Penang many times and not necessarily because of visa requirements and can say that I have never seen a day when the air was polluted by forest clearance. I rather think the poster is confusing Penang with the East coast which can be affected by the practices of those on Borneo/Kalimantan/Sabah.

Electra actually Penang and most parts of the west coast do get smog from the open burning off Sumatra Island. Sometimes extremely bad too. Its worse towards south of KL all the way to Singapore.

[Electra]

What time of year would this be?

I've been there in December, February, April and August and have never witnessed this phenomenon nor have I ever heard the locals complaining about it.

[meadish_sweetball]

Thanks to those who have made this an interesting and informative thread. Good reading.

[tigerbeer]

What time of year would this be?

I've been there in December, February, April and August and have never witnessed this phenomenon nor have I ever heard the locals complaining about it.

Hi Electra,

Not sure of the exact months. Perhaps you can do more reading about it. But there is definitely haze because of open burning in Indonesia.

Here it a picture of Hazy days in KL from Flickr.

and here is an article from Wikipedia on the 2006 haze of SEA countries

I have been through some very bad haze before. The haze should however not stop one from thinking of Malaysia as a place to reside in. The haze is very temporary and not seasonal (in the real sense of seasons). Unlike the kinds we get here in Chiang Mai during the March-April months every year.

I still think Malaysia is a lovely country to live in

TB..

[GungaDin]

Hi,

I attach more info on Islamic (Syariah) laws in Malaysia for your reading. Something we should know. Read on !

<Snip>

p of Kuala Lumpur; Bishop Antony Selvanayagam, Bishop of Penang; Bishop Paul Tan, S.J., Bishop of Melaka-Johor

I do remember, about 9 years ago, being in a city in northeastern Malaysia and feeling like I was not wanted. But that area is no doubt not representative of Malaysia as a whole.

If that was Kota Baru, I had the same unwelcome feeling 7 years ago...... Never again ! What a shi.hole.

[chickencurry]

What time of year would this be?

I've been there in December, February, April and August and have never witnessed this phenomenon nor have I ever heard the locals complaining about it.

I just plugged into google: haze sumatra penang, and all sorts of links from different times of the year popped up. I think as Tigerbeer stated KL tends to get it worse though.

[wayfarer108]

On shariah, I had a colleague at MARA Institute of Technology charged with khalwat when he was reported to the religious police for having a female student in his office with the door closed. The instructor was of Indian descent. He wasn't convicted but it became a blot on his univeristy record and stalled promotions, etc. I was told by staff at that university (with an all-Malay student body as tigerbeer will know) that the law did apply to non-Muslims when a Muslim was involved. I'm ready to stand corrected if someone can provide a legal citation.

what was he doing working at MARA anyways?? lol. MARA is totally a bumiputra thing. Yes you are absolutely right, when there is a muslim involved, then the case goes to the Syariah court.

only have something going on with a muslim if you intend to marry her/him and you are ready to be converted to being a muslim. Otherwise many lovely women of different race available for your companionship (if thats what you are looking for)

There were quite a few non-Muslim Malaysian as well as non-Malaysian faculty at MARA when I was there, including myself. I imagine there still are.

Re Malaysia's west coast haze, it is in fact seasonal, same as northern Thailand's, but usually worse. It occurs during Sumatra's and/or Kalimantan's dry seasons, when agricultural and forest burning takes place (again, same as in N Thailand). Some years the haze is so bad it extends as far north as Phuket. As with northern Thailand it depends on the prevailing winds during any given burning season, ie, some years not so bad and other years quite bad. I was in Penang one year when you could barely see more than 100 meters away. But KL was much worse that same year; you couldn't even see across the street.

Similarly, I am somewhat bemused by the reference to crappy beaches. The beach at Batu Ferringhi, in comparison to Pattaya say, is a veritable paradise. It is invariably clean, free of rubbish and in total contrast to most strands in Thailand is devoid of itinerant peddlars.

I'm somewhat bemused by the comparison with *Pattaya,* arguably the worst beach in Thailand. Just as there are many beaches more beautiful than Pattaya in Thailand, there are many beaches in Malaysia more beautiful than Batu Ferringhi. In fact most people who know Malaysia, including Malaysians themselves, tend to rate Batu F at pretty much the bottom of the pile (unless you count Port Dickson perhaps).

I'd rank Batu F as more or less on par with Jomtien Beach around the cape from Pattaya. It looks OK (but has brownish water, from river silt) but you might not want to swim there due to direct drainage of sewage into the sea and into the fiver rivers that feed into the sea here. Jetskis and parasailors can also be an annoyance. As at Jomtien, the beach is valued mainly as a scenic backdrop for condo developments. Langkawi has much nicer beaches.

Edited June 24, 2009 by wayfarer108

[JR Texas]

Hi,

I attach more info on Islamic (Syariah) laws in Malaysia for your reading. Something we should know. Read on !

<Snip>

p of Kuala Lumpur; Bishop Antony Selvanayagam, Bishop of Penang; Bishop Paul Tan, S.J., Bishop of Melaka-Johor

I do remember, about 9 years ago, being in a city in northeastern Malaysia and feeling like I was not wanted. But that area is no doubt not representative of Malaysia as a whole.

If that was Kota Baru, I had the same unwelcome feeling 7 years ago...... Never again ! What a shi.hole.

Yes......same place....but it is far away from the place we are discussing. There are few countries now with specific areas you should not go to for safety reasons. Thailand has its southern region adjoining Kota Baru in Malaysia, the Philippines had Mindanao.......even the US has areas I would not go to at night......

[chickencurry]

Just got back from a look-see in Penang. Is it a good place to live? Yes I think it is - I think both for workers and retirees. Some parts look very much like olde Singapore but the place definitely has its own character and a good atmosphere. Everyone we met, without exception, were incredibly friendly, wanted to chat - majority seems to be Malaysian Chinese, some Eurasians, Malay (Muslim) and Indian Malaysians. Big surprise for me was not only did they all speak English but they spoke perfect English - not the bastardized form you get in some countries.

Great food though not too much pork about in restaurants. Pork available in the supermarkets though (looked in Cold Storage). Food and drink prices eating out seemed to be similar to Phuket. Food prices similar in supermarkets to Phuket. Drinks prices a bit more expensive in supermarkets unfortunately. Lively bars and pubs full of expat couples. Very cheap petrol - much cheaper than Phuket.

Didn't have any issues with the Malays (Muslim). As a female, albeit an older one, didn't feel uncomfortable at all. Met up with some other expats on the MM2H scheme and they seem very happy with life. Food for thought.

Downsides: They have some building issues - a lot of condos being crammed in in some places and some landslip problems so careful research would be needed, especially if buying property. There was a bit of haze while we were there but not enough to bother us (may bother some people perhaps).

[simon43]

I did a visa run to Penang a few weeks ago - first time in Penang for 20 years. I stayed a couple of days and didn't like it.

The best phrase that I can use to describe Penang is 'no sanook!'. As someone who rarely goes to bars, I don't mean Walking Street Sanook, or Bangla Road Sanook. I mean that Penang seemed to lack genuine Thai sanook, good fun, genuine happy people, (who are also a rare sight in Thailand nowadays unless you go to Issan).

Like you JR, I am also considering my future options. I fear that whilst Thailand has some serious political and social issues right now, the situation is going to get a whole lot worst when He who cannot be mentioned leaves this world

Simon

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

Very good thread, everyone. Informative and fair.

Because of an interest in motorcycles, I have to ask whether riding around Penang (or Malaysia, for that matter) is safer/less safe than Thailand? Can you rent motorbikes there?

Edited July 26, 2009 by Kaoboi Bebobp

[zzaa09]

Though I wouldn't choose to live there, I always found Penang quite pleasant. Culturally diverse and historically important. The libraries and bookstores are quite keen.

[DoctorG]

As someone considering an alternative to LOS, I found this thread to be extremely helpful. My thanks to all contributors.

[thedistillers]

SE Asia as a whole (besides Bangkok) can be called "boring", once you've seen the tourist stuff. I'm assuming people who consider moving to Penang don't expect it to be Tokyo, New York or Paris.

Though that to me, there's a "ghost town" vibe in Georgetown. I don't get that vibe in Chiang Mai even if it's quiet too.

[Luang]

Just got back from a look-see in Penang. Is it a good place to live? Yes I think it is - I think both for workers and retirees. Some parts look very much like olde Singapore but the place definitely has its own character and a good atmosphere. Everyone we met, without exception, were incredibly friendly, wanted to chat - majority seems to be Malaysian Chinese, some Eurasians, Malay (Muslim) and Indian Malaysians. Big surprise for me was not only did they all speak English but they spoke perfect English - not the bastardized form you get in some countries.

Great food though not too much pork about in restaurants. Pork available in the supermarkets though (looked in Cold Storage). Food and drink prices eating out seemed to be similar to Phuket. Food prices similar in supermarkets to Phuket. Drinks prices a bit more expensive in supermarkets unfortunately. Lively bars and pubs full of expat couples. Very cheap petrol - much cheaper than Phuket.

Didn't have any issues with the Malays (Muslim). As a female, albeit an older one, didn't feel uncomfortable at all. Met up with some other expats on the MM2H scheme and they seem very happy with life. Food for thought.

Downsides: They have some building issues - a lot of condos being crammed in in some places and some landslip problems so careful research would be needed, especially if buying property. There was a bit of haze while we were there but not enough to bother us (may bother some people perhaps).

I have an alternative angle on this that may be relevant (and significant) to some.

I first visited Penang alone, a year or so ago and thought it was charming. I returned with my Thai girlfriend to the same area (Georgetown) and the vibe was completely different. We (her to be more accurate) were stared at constantly by the locals to the point whereby it became offensive!

Now whether this is down to the fact that she is very attractive, or that they are viewing her in a negative light because she is with a 'westerner', i'm not sure. What i do know is that this changed Penang into a possible alternative to Thailand into a 'definitely not' place! And no, i'm not an old retired guy (no disrepect to you guys btw). We are a happy couple who look good together but i was bordering on the 'losing it' after 2 days!

Shame, otherwise i really like the place and it's slow vibe

[Louie77]

I have to agree with the last post. We lived in Penang (after Thailand) and it drove me crazy that I couldn't go anywhere on my own without being followed, having to listen to sexual remarks. It restricts your freedom (as a woman) and you have the feeling that you always have to watch your back. They don't think much of women, local or foreign.

People in Thailand stare, but they stare because I'm a foreigner. In Penang they stare for different reasons.

We enjoyed Penang in the beginning but I would advise everyone to spend some time there before moving permanently. We were both fed up with Thailand and the place made us appreciate Thailand again Go figure.

And don't underestimate the heat, there is no cool season.

We didn't live in Georgetown b.t.w. but on the other side of the island (before Batu Ferringhi). And I definitely agree: Georgetown feels like a ghost town!

The place has its own problems: the races don't get along, pollution (and yes, you can tell when they're burning in Indonesia), noise, I hated the traffic. In a nutshell: looking back I'd say it is similar to Thailand (with some differences of course) but without the sanook. We found it a rather stale place. I'll go back to Thailand on holidays but I don't think I'll ever go back to Malaysia.

But everyone has their own agenda, likes and dislikes.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Louie77

[tsigane]

Very good thread, everyone. Informative and fair.

Because of an interest in motorcycles, I have to ask whether riding around Penang (or Malaysia, for that matter) is safer/less safe than Thailand? Can you rent motorbikes there?

I rented a scooter in Penang and I talked to a guy who rented KLX250-type of a bike on Borneo side of Malaysia (they were allowed to go to Indonesia too, but they didn't bother).

I felt drivers were more disciplined, calmer and respected signals more. But I only rode around Penang island.

cheers

[craigt3365]

As someone considering an alternative to LOS, I found this thread to be extremely helpful. My thanks to all contributors.

You might also want to check out this thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/347262-alternative-retirement-destinations-for-expats-other-than-thailand/page__st__400__gopid__4162539#entry4162539

I have to agree with the last post. We lived in Penang (after Thailand) and it drove me crazy that I couldn't go anywhere on my own without being followed, having to listen to sexual remarks. It restricts your freedom (as a woman) and you have the feeling that you always have to watch your back. They don't think much of women, local or foreign.

People in Thailand stare, but they stare because I'm a foreigner. In Penang they stare for different reasons.

We enjoyed Penang in the beginning but I would advise everyone to spend some time there before moving permanently. We were both fed up with Thailand and the place made us appreciate Thailand again Go figure.

And don't underestimate the heat, there is no cool season.

We didn't live in Georgetown b.t.w. but on the other side of the island (before Batu Ferringhi). And I definitely agree: Georgetown feels like a ghost town!

The place has its own problems: the races don't get along, pollution (and yes, you can tell when they're burning in Indonesia), noise, I hated the traffic. In a nutshell: looking back I'd say it is similar to Thailand (with some differences of course) but without the sanook. We found it a rather stale place. I'll go back to Thailand on holidays but I don't think I'll ever go back to Malaysia.

But everyone has their own agenda, likes and dislikes.

We spent a week there a few years ago. I know that's not a long time, but agree with the above comments. Traffic is horrible, pollution is bad, and wifey was not only starred at, but also followed a few times. She did not feel safe at all.

I know a few folk who love it there, and a few who hate it. I did see a website, which I will try and locate, telling about some property scams there. Go figure...

[davee58]

I have an alternative angle on this that may be relevant (and significant) to some.

I first visited Penang alone, a year or so ago and thought it was charming. I returned with my Thai girlfriend to the same area (Georgetown) and the vibe was completely different. We (her to be more accurate) were stared at constantly by the locals to the point whereby it became offensive!

Now whether this is down to the fact that she is very attractive, or that they are viewing her in a negative light because she is with a 'westerner', i'm not sure. What i do know is that this changed Penang into a possible alternative to Thailand into a 'definitely not' place! And no, i'm not an old retired guy (no disrepect to you guys btw). We are a happy couple who look good together but i was bordering on the 'losing it' after 2 days!

Shame, otherwise i really like the place and it's slow vibe

Interesting, I was in Penang with my Philippine girlfriend last April.

Local people mistook her for a Thai but seemed genuinely happy when they found out that she was not Thai.

Apparently many Thai tour buses pass through Georgetown, we were told that the Thai "package tourists" always seem rude and aloof, they show no respect to the local people.

My girlfriend was happy shopping and eating, though I agree that Penang has lost some of the charm it had during my last visit several years ago, it seems more commercialised...

[johnnyk]

I found it interesting and historic but "sober", quite serious. It's not light-hearted like LoS. Just not the same feeling of fun, of making life as pleasant as can be under whatever circumstances. People just did not smile as readily.

[chickencurry]

Not been on here for a while. Wow... is this thread still going? What did JR Texas decide?

Well, we made our decision. We researched and researched, we applied for and got the MM2H visa, and we've now been living in Penang for 8 months.... and so far.... it's great - no regrets. More to do here (ALLOWED to do here) than Thailand. I don't have to visit Immigration for another TEN YEARS - just a slight improvement on 90 days. The local Penangites are great - very friendly, all speak perfect English. The food is good - surprised just how spicy some of the Hokkien dishes are. The Indian food great too. Western food available too of course. In the area I'm currently in, Tanjung Bungah, a good mix of retirees and workers. There are bars. There is alcohol. I have seen no crime in 8 months (though I'm sure there must be some). I am female, I walk about on my own - I have not been attacked, mugged or anything else. Like Singapore (though Penang is NOT Singapore) there's a good mix of old and new - nice old temples and other buildings. Lots of modern condos along the northern part of Penang. The new Straits Quay in Tanjong Tokong also very modern, with lots of eateries and pubs.... yes... Hello..... PUBS.

On the muslim front - sure I see a few but, quite honestly, there were more in Phuket. Central Bt Ferringhi has a large and noisy mosque and attacts holidaymakers from the Arabian gulf, especially during the Summer months. The outer edges of Bt Ferringhi are more of a mixture racially and a quite high percentage of expats. West facing so some like the nice sunsets. Me - not too bothered about sunsets.

Nice to be able to go into shops, hairdressers, dentists, clinics and be able to communicate what I want in English and be understood. So... any questions... fire away on here or I'll answer your PMs.

Now, can anyone tell me how the hell we can flog our nice home in Phuket?

[phuketrichard]

curious as to your costs, ( food,rent,eating out) compared to Phuket

To obtain the visa what did u need to show>

good luck selling the home here. seems phuket has a glut of condos/homes and they continue to build

Sold mine in 2009 and am sooo glad

Edited April 3, 2011 by phuketrichard