Owning A Monkey Illegal?

[DLock]

I have a Pig Tailed Macaque who came to me after my wife saved him from the cooking pot for 500 baht. He had fallen off his Mother when hunters had set a fruit trap for wild pigs and monkeys came in to eat the fruit. He was a small 4 or 5 month "Look Ling" when I got him.

He has been grandfathered under an existing Forestry Dept permit and the local police area aware I have him and the correct papers. But you do need papers and it only takes one disgruntled person who doesn't like you or wants the monkey and you can lose him. My understanding is that new permits are very difficult to obtain.

But I DO NOT recommend a monkey as a pet. After I got him, I tried every sanctuary, zoo and private animal home to take the monkey. It was like asking a zoo to take a dog - no one wanted him, apart from individuals who thought it would be fun to own a monkey.

It's hard work, and he can never be left alone. He must always have someone around. He wakes up at 6am and wants his milk. He then eats fresh fruits, vegetables and rice at 8am. At noon, he eats again. 5pm he has milk and 6pm he eats his last meal. He gets fruit snacks at various times of the day and loves kiwi, grapes and durian. Luckily he sleeps when the sun goes down.

I build him a day "wheelie" cage for indoors and a large (5m x 4m) cage outside. He is out of his cages with me, my wife or the staff most of the day.

He is very tame and loves to cling to whoever he is with as they take him to the garden to look for bugs, shoots and buds. He can bite, but because he is young, its more like a puppy biting. But his teeth are getting bigger and sooner or later, its gonna hurt. I have a fantastic vet who has done all the shots and has warned me that when he reaches maturity, he will become very aggressive - hence the big cage.

Unless you, or someone you trust is at the house 24 hours, do not get a monkey. They are very social and can get very upset when they are left alone. You cant just stick it in a cage with a few toys and expect him to stay entertained. Consider it like a 2 year old child and then you realize the effort and cost associated with having a pet monkey.

I would never get a Gibbon, and there are many reputable places that will gladly take the Gibbon and give it a good life.

[OnTheSnap]

Great post, DLock.

[Mark Wolfe]

DLock, you make a good case for not owning a wild animal such as a monkey, yet you do.

One day, as you say, his bite will hurt and one day, the person getting bitten will not be happy about it. Expect a lawsuit or worse. I don't know why you don't turn it back into the wild from whence it came. Or eat it. Or do the "kittens in a sack" solution.

Your situation sounds intolerable and a huge time and energy waste. Why put so much effort into a project that has no rewards and is full of potential downsides?

My advice is get rid of it before it gets you into very hot water.

Oh, and best keep the wife away from the slaughterhouse or you may find yourself with a "rescued" cow, pig, goat, chicken and duck.

"Yesterday she brought home a bunch of rabbits -- said they were too cute to eat. This afternoon she brings a snake. I gotta keep that woman away from the market. From now on she's only going grocery shopping at Tesco!"

[DLock]

DLock, you make a good case for not owning a wild animal such as a monkey, yet you do.

One day, as you say, his bite will hurt and one day, the person getting bitten will not be happy about it. Expect a lawsuit or worse. I don't know why you don't turn it back into the wild from whence it came. Or eat it. Or do the "kittens in a sack" solution.

Your situation sounds intolerable and a huge time and energy waste. Why put so much effort into a project that has no rewards and is full of potential downsides?

My advice is get rid of it before it gets you into very hot water.

Oh, and best keep the wife away from the slaughterhouse or you may find yourself with a "rescued" cow, pig, goat, chicken and duck.

"Yesterday she brought home a bunch of rabbits -- said they were too cute to eat. This afternoon she brings a snake. I gotta keep that woman away from the market. From now on she's only going grocery shopping at Tesco!"

If I could have found a home for him then I would have given him up without hesitation.

If I thought he could survive alone in the jungle and not starve, be eaten by predators or captured by a hungry Thai, I would.

Maybe you can put a monkey in a sack with a few bricks and throw him into a pond, but I could never do that. That says more about you than it does me.

I am not going to glamorize owning a monkey with what I get back from him, but lets just say, he's a bit more affectionate and smarter than your average dog, and a whole lot funnier. I make him sound like a handful because he is and I would always rather see a monkey in the forest than a home, but in my case, it was either Monkey Green Curry, or try to take care of the little fella.

Actually my wife does buy all the turtles at the local market and we do let them go in the various temple lakes around where I live. Rabbits...she eats.

Thanks for your concern. Carry on.

[Mark Wolfe]

If I thought he could survive alone in the jungle and not starve, be eaten by predators or captured by a hungry Thai, I would.

Fair enough, but it's a wild animal; things like this happen every day, you just don't see it.

I would personally be more concerned about the possibility of the animal injuring (intentional or otherwise) someone. Monkeys aren't people (and people aren't all that tame always themselves), and they are, as non-domesticated animals, apt to ... well, be wild. Injury, lawsuits, medical bills or outright retribution for a monkey bite are things I just don't need in my life.

One could also make the argument that keeping such an animal in a cage or tethered, which you will have to do at some point, unless you are going to buy it a taxi to drive when it's older, is cruelty. I've watched coconut monkeys on their permanent neck chain acting quite insane (yes, I am anthropomorphizing here).

Why turtles? What about eels? Or frogs? Or the buckets of live catfish?

That's weird, buying animals to release them, only to be recaptured (maybe) or "eaten by predators or captured by a hungry Thai."

I realize that your wife is trying to have her heart in the right place, but this seems a bit misdirected.

I'd find some place where other monkeys of its kind are known to be and release him and hope for the best. Must be big merit for that.

Phimai Sai Ngam

And as for killing it, that was an option, not necessarily one that I would exercise, but an option nonetheless.

[DLock]

If I thought he could survive alone in the jungle and not starve, be eaten by predators or captured by a hungry Thai, I would.

Fair enough, but it's a wild animal; things like this happen every day, you just don't see it.

I would personally be more concerned about the possibility of the animal injuring (intentional or otherwise) someone. Monkeys aren't people (and people aren't all that tame always themselves), and they are, as non-domesticated animals, apt to ... well, be wild. Injury, lawsuits, medical bills or outright retribution for a monkey bite are things I just don't need in my life.

One could also make the argument that keeping such an animal in a cage or tethered, which you will have to do at some point, unless you are going to buy it a taxi to drive when it's older, is cruelty. I've watched coconut monkeys on their permanent neck chain acting quite insane (yes, I am anthropomorphizing here).

Why turtles? What about eels? Or frogs? Or the buckets of live catfish?

That's weird, buying animals to release them, only to be recaptured (maybe) or "eaten by predators or captured by a hungry Thai."

I realize that your wife is trying to have her heart in the right place, but this seems a bit misdirected.

I'd find some place where other monkeys of its kind are known to be and release him and hope for the best. Must be big merit for that.

Phimai Sai Ngam

And as for killing it, that was an option, not necessarily one that I would exercise, but an option nonetheless.

Unfortunately for fish, snakes, rats, frogs, ants and a bunch of random insects, they don't get the same treatment as turtles. They get eaten.

Maybe she just likes turtles...or more importantly doesn't like eating them. I don't try to understand Thai logic. I just help release them at the temple where they are guaranteed a happy turtle life.

I totally agree that many animals suffer unnecessarily in Thailand, all for a few baht. The few coconut monkeys I have seen appeared well looked after and happy...not as happy as they would be in the jungle with their own kind, but happy nonetheless...and maybe happier than a poor monkey in a zoo cage. But I cringe at the Gibbons on Beach Rd or the Elephants in Bangkok or a pickup truck full of Pangolins destined for the pot in China or Cambodia.

Unfortunately you cant just release a monkey back with a local troop. He is too young to survive on his own and would probably be killed or driven out of the troop. Have you never watched Animal Planet? Ironically, my monkey will actually sit and watch any program on monkeys - great show called Street Monkeys...although he does like to press the buttons on the remote a bit too much. He also likes cartoons.

I'm not trying to defend owning a monkey. Sometimes I wish I didn't. But after exhausting every possibility in Thailand, with zero success, I feel obligated to give him as good a home as I can. He is well cared for and as happy as I can make things for him.

My initial post was to highlight to the potential owner of monkeys that it is hard work and a full-time responsibility, but sometimes you have to consider where that monkey might end up, or if he will mistreated at the hands of Thais and make a decision like I did. It's not a matter of saying he'd be better of in the jungle with other monkeys. That's a given. But in this case, its not possible.

[canuckamuck]

Actually my wife does buy all the turtles at the local market and we do let them go in the various temple lakes around where I live. Rabbits...she eats.

Thanks for your concern. Carry on.

You know they catch those temple lake turtles and get someone to sell them again at the market.

Why don't you release them in a wildlife reserve or national park?

Edited June 1, 2009 by canuckamuck

[DLock]

Actually my wife does buy all the turtles at the local market and we do let them go in the various temple lakes around where I live. Rabbits...she eats.

Thanks for your concern. Carry on.

You know they catch those temple lake turtles and get someone to sell them again at the market.

Why don't you release them in a wildlife reserve or national park?

I visit this temple regularly to feed the fish and turtles. I sit on a floating bamboo pontoon and feed them old bread and there are catfish that are over 2 foot long and turtles that are as big as a dinner plate.

Maybe in a city temple, but no-one fishes or catches from these temple ponds. The monks would never let that happen.

[Samuian]

However, whatever it is simply wrong, cause the owning of a wild animal encourages others to just want to possess the same - "rare thing" and so with creates potential buyers, a market, the guys hunting them, trapping them, who won't hesitate to kill the parents animals - the whole chain!

It's simply wrong!

In this thread the Puket gibbon ... rehabilitation canter has been mentioned, I am quite sure there are others... I don;t think that it is a good idea to release them straight back into nature - they could face problems - reintegrating once they are sort fo "domesticated".

[DLock]

So, I take it you would have let the monkey get eaten instead of try to find him a home?

I wish all animals were left in the wild but we aren't in Kansas anymore Junior. Animals are food or money. And while their are jackasses who create demand or armchair environmentalists like you guys...the problem persists.

Just by stating "Its simply wrong" doesn't make the problem go away, or help my monkey.

I'd hope that anyone who had the opportunity to save an animal from being killed or living in poor conditions would do something to help, but when it comes down to it, most of you don't have it in you. It's easier to pass judgment than take action.

It's cool. I understand. As long as it doesn't affect you...

[canuckamuck]

You are right, those who criticize you for trying to do the right thing are just the kneejerkers. It is a standard programming that causes people to freak out about any endangered animal situations.

People have mention monkey rescue organizations. I suggest they are the best option. I think breeding them would end poorly, but I don't know your situation.

[BigC]

However, whatever it is simply wrong, cause the owning of a wild animal encourages others to just want to possess the same - "rare thing" and so with creates potential buyers, a market, the guys hunting them, trapping them, who won't hesitate to kill the parents animals - the whole chain!

It's simply wrong!

In this thread the Puket gibbon ... rehabilitation canter has been mentioned, I am quite sure there are others... I don;t think that it is a good idea to release them straight back into nature - they could face problems - reintegrating once they are sort fo "domesticated".

if that was true then know one would own dogs as they are all decendants of the wolves. then the dogs were orrigonally bread from wroking.e'i any dog will the word bull in it was used for hunting bulls.

Animals being trained for working purposes ok. Just becuase other people might want to do illegal things like trapping them and stuff like that. then that is a problem with the individuals. It is the same with the stupid gun laws in the u.k. if u cannot own a hand gun legally then how can u protect yourself against crimals who will have a gun illegally.

then banned them becuase of the actions of a few people. now the whole country pays for 2 peoples mistakes. instead of the people who issued the liscences.

so what i am saying is it is all done legally then no need to worry but people should not have to be punsished because other people would be encouraged to commit crimes. which if they are crimals they will do something else anyway.

[snakerescue]

</div>I asked a simple question without putting all the facts since i didn't know that it would turn like all this bullshit... So my little story is this : I met a European guy who have 4 gibbons and now is trying to get rid of 2... i started to make some research about it and asking questions before i'll get involved with something out of my ball game and wanted to be informed first...simple NO.

So for all the big brain drama queen wanna be, the life seeker since theirs is so boring, retire/welfare people just here to talk and pass stupid comments, sexually unsatisfied people who compare Thai woman with monkeys, people who know everything and everybody in all subject, for all the people who watched too many soap opera in their life thinking it's the reality... thank you for your input. The members of this forum is getting worst and worst more I looked at the subject posted... this will be my last post and do not think i will be back on Thai visa since i think it's a big joke. Have fun losing your time and other people as well

Cheers

www.wfft.org edwin weiks is the best person for gibbons check the website and call him asap.

[snakerescue]

www.wfft.org edwin weiks is the best person for gibbons check the website and call him asap.

and yes it is illegal...best not to keep any wildlife...get a dog or a cat!

[Mark Wolfe]

canuckamuck:

You are right, those who criticize you for trying to do the right thing are just the kneejerkers.

That's a bit of a broad brush.

I think that the idea that this cooking-pot monkey would die if released has some merit, but you don't know that for certain. I'd feel better at least giving it a chance at a natural life, even if the chances are low or there is a risk of death.

[sbk]

Gibbon rehabilitation center: www.gibbonproject.org