Cholesterol Control

[bangkokian]

Consider taking more greens and inhaling steam-distilled rosemary essential oil (if you do not have high blood pressure). A cobination of garlic and fish oil may help--There's actually lots of sound research on using fish oil and garlic for cholesterol problems. Try to be a little selective when choosing fish oil. Let me know if you would like to learn more about using garlic and fish oil to help clear your system of bad cholesterol.

[marshbags]

As Lop says, Zocor is the brand name for Simvastatin. It and Lipitor are the two largest "statins" prescribed in the US. Besides lowering cholesterol (the wife, on 20mg Zocor, has come down amazingly in two years), statins are being found to apparently be beneficial in many other areas.

The one major side affect can be liver problems. This occurs very rarely, but is something US doctors are supposed to check for periodically.

Would be interesting to know how Simvastatin and other over-the-counter statins in Thailand compare to Zocor and Lipitor. Reading about knockoff drugs over here,  wonder if the cost of making legitimate statins would drive a market for phonies......?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wife started on real imported Zocor as we have medical insurance but Chula Hospital has since become convinced that the local made simvastatin is of the same quality.

My wife has just been prescribed to take one 40mg tablet per day, last thing at night.

She took them for 7 days and has started feeling very tired and sleepy, even after a nights rest.

It gradually got worse and she then told me about it, so i,ve told her to stop taking them and she will go back to see the specialist on Friday.

She,s been off them for 3 days and hasn,t improved yet.

She has valvular heart disease and suffers blackouts occasionally.

The specialist assures us that so long as she sits down when fuzzy spells start, she is safe and not to be overly concerned

( NOT EASY, I can tell You. )

So these she has learned to recognise and control, once the symptoms begin. ( 3 years now )

She started having them more frequently since starting to take the medication, hence not taking any more until the hospital visit.

I,ve checked the various contradictions ect., that are highlighted, but i cannot see any reference to tiredness ?????

Is this another one of them, please ?

Thank you in advance.

marshbags

Edited April 14, 2008 by marshbags

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Lipitor is a wonder drug, after you take it for a month you wonder what you are doing. Muscle aches, headaches, memory loss and felt lousy in general. Quit taking them and felt fine in a week. Google lipitor and I think the results will put you off taking them.

[Tammi]

Lipitor is a wonder drug, after you take it for a month you wonder what you are doing. Muscle aches, headaches, memory loss and felt lousy in general. Quit taking them and felt fine in a week. Google lipitor and I think the results will put you off taking them.

I was on Lipitor for some years but stopped taking when I could hardly walk when I got out of bed in the morning. Got better. A couple of years later had a CT 64 slice scan of the heart done and doctor told me, with wonderment in his voice, that blood vessels were completely clear. I have no idea what my cholesterols are doing now.

BTW, just watched Larry King Live and Sanjay Gupta was saying that some authorities believe that Lipitor should be added to drinking water supplies!

Edited April 14, 2008 by Tammi

[geriatrickid]

Smoking raises bad cholesterol levels.

In respect to negative reports on lipitor and crestor, the overwhelming patient follow ups show that the drugs have provided a benefit. Usually patients that do not tolerate crestor are put on lipitor. Ideally, with a change in diet, cessation of smoking and exercise, medication can be reduced or even eliminated for those patients without a genetic predisposition. Unfortunately most patients don't want to do the aforementioned.

[Wrong Turn]

Dragon fruit has been proven to take care of the cholesterol problem, it also reduces the triglyceride levels. No side effects and tastes ok as well.

Do you have a link anywhere, ZZZ?

Thanks in advance. I've never heard of this.

[Sheryl]

My wife has just been prescribed to take one 40mg tablet per day, last thing at night.

She took them for 7 days and has started feeling very tired and sleepy, even after a nights rest.

It gradually got worse and she then told me about it, so i,ve told her to stop taking them and she will go back to see the specialist on Friday.

She,s been off them for 3 days and hasn,t improved yet.

She has valvular heart disease and suffers blackouts occasionally.

The specialist assures us that so long as she sits down when fuzzy spells start, she is safe and not to be overly concerned

( NOT EASY, I can tell You. )

So these she has learned to recognise and control, once the symptoms begin. ( 3 years now )

She started having them more frequently since starting to take the medication, hence not taking any more until the hospital visit.

I,ve checked the various contradictions ect., that are highlighted, but i cannot see any reference to tiredness ?????

Is this another one of them, please ?

Thank you in advance.

marshbags

Marshbags,

Her symptoms could be due to the lipitor, as they are known side effects of the drug, albeit not the more common ones. However, given that she also has cardiac diseases cannot be sure it isn't a worsening of that.

For a full list of side effects reported with Lipitor see this link http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/atorvastatin_ad.htm

You say she has valcular disease, has surgery (valve replacement) been considered? Unless there are strong contr-indications to surgery this is the best apporach, certaibnly better than living with periodic black-outs/"fuzziness"!!

[Tammi]

Dragon fruit has been proven to take care of the cholesterol problem, it also reduces the triglyceride levels. No side effects and tastes ok as well.

Do you have a link anywhere, ZZZ?

Thanks in advance. I've never heard of this.

Also, a handful of pistachios every day is said to reduce bad cholesterols.

[marshbags]

Marshbags,

Her symptoms could be due to the lipitor, as they are known side effects of the drug, albeit not the more common ones. However, given that she also has cardiac diseases cannot be sure it isn't a worsening of that.

For a full list of side effects reported with Lipitor see this link http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/atorvastatin_ad.htm

You say she has valcular disease, has surgery (valve replacement) been considered? Unless there are strong contr-indications to surgery this is the best apporach, certaibnly better than living with periodic black-outs/"fuzziness"!!

The specialist says surgery up to now isn,t neccessary, he also mentioned something relating to her age being a factor ??? ( 47 now ) and that medication he is prescribing is controlling it at present from getting worse ???

He also told her that unless it got life threatening, he would not recommend heart surgery.

She has ongoing tests on a regular basis, ECG,s ect and the results vary, while he prescribed the same medication, until giving her the Zimmex.

He,s a respected heart specialist from K. Khaens big hospital and goes to the U.S. from time to time to update his knowledge, so i assume he knows what,s best, based on his findings and experience.

My wife is planning to go back to the hospital this Friday when he next has a surgery here and this time i will go with her, just in case she isn,t telling me the full extent of her problems.

In no way does my reference to the specialists findings undermine any of your observations by the way, Sheryl, just adding insight into his knowledge and summaries.

Like many others before us, the wifes insurance agent didn,t renew her premiums and she kept the money we gave her.

I only found out when we tried to renew it with another agent and i couldn,t locate the policy for the preceding year, only to be told in a sentence.....

The Ins. co. refused to then renew her policy as her heart condition had surfaced during the lapse and the wouldn,t accept responsibility for it.

While they knew the agent who took the money, they refused to accept responsiblity for her actions.

My wife foolishly didn,t get a receipt this time, as she was considered a friend and was also our landlady for several years so never thought to get it as we usually do.

She kicked us out 3 months later by the way and we were told we had no recourse when we made enquiries.

That,s life as they say...............no problem, it,s gone now and we,ve long moved on.

Get a receipt and do not assume your payment is safe, no matter who you think they are !!!!!!!!

I hate the use of the obvious but TIT as it goes, covers most lapses of accountability in Thailand.

Thanks to you and other posters who have responded with positive information, along with personal experiences relating to the medication.

marshbags

Edited April 15, 2008 by marshbags

[marshbags]

Just talked to her specialist who was kind enough to want to do so.

As observed it is probably due to the lipitor as highlighted.

Also that on her recent visit, it was noticed in a blood test her cholesterol levels were high.

Regarding an operation, in consultation with the heart surgeon, they considered her disease was not at such a stage that required this and they agreed medication was the way to go at present.

They do an ultrasound at regular intervals to monitor the heart, and, if it is deteriorating to a more worrying situatiion, will advise accordingly.

Kudos to him for taking time to explain everything in detail, without us having to go to the hospital and also for taking a load of worry of my mind instead of it being prolonged till Friday.

Gradually she should get back to the position she was in before taking the Zimmex, while adding " watching her diet in relation to fats "

Thank you again to everyone.

marshbags

[PeaceBlondie]

Okay, I will post in this thread. I have been taking mevalotin for maybe a year, which is a statin.

In the last three months I lost 2 or 3 kilos and am finally back to 88 kilos. My blood pressure today was 130/80, my cholesterol 192, triglyceride 148, HDL 41, LDL 121, and VLDL 30. My doctor (professor of neurology, who treated me since I had a lacunar infarction a year ago) is very pleased. He has me on Mevalotin 20 mg/day, Plendil 10 mg/day, and insists on keeping me on 300 mg/day of aspirin. Lately I have been doing up to 3 hours a day of vigorous swimming, averaging an hour a day.

Do my blood levels sound okay to prevent a heart attack or maybe a stroke? Thanks.

[chiang mai]

Okay, I will post in this thread. I have been taking mevalotin for maybe a year, which is a statin.

In the last three months I lost 2 or 3 kilos and am finally back to 88 kilos. My blood pressure today was 130/80, my cholesterol 192, triglyceride 148, HDL 41, LDL 121, and VLDL 30. My doctor (professor of neurology, who treated me since I had a lacunar infarction a year ago) is very pleased. He has me on Mevalotin 20 mg/day, Plendil 10 mg/day, and insists on keeping me on 300 mg/day of aspirin. Lately I have been doing up to 3 hours a day of vigorous swimming, averaging an hour a day.

Do my blood levels sound okay to prevent a heart attack or maybe a stroke? Thanks.

Your Triglycerides are at the top of the acceptable range and your LDL (bad cholesterol) is high, both not good - your HDL (good cholesterol) is at the bottom end of the acceptable range. BP is good and the weight loss and exercise aspects are very good - are your numbers current?

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks for the response, chiang mai. The numbers are current, but I did not exactly fast that morning (had some fresh fruit and diet cola). My data on the hospital lab printout says the triglyceride range is acceptable from 35 to 160, HDL from 27 to 67, and LDL 0 to 121. If their ranges are correct, my HDL is is roughly midrange. My ratio of total cholesterol to HDL is 4.7:1. However, the article in wikipedia states that "The desirable LDL level is considered to be less than 100 mg/dL (2.6 mmol/L)[15], although a newer target of <70 mg/dL can be considered in higher risk individuals based on some of the above-mentioned trials," quoting the American Heart Association.

What more can I do - swim 8 hours per day? As I read, I wonder how much diet can affect cholesterol level when so much of the body produces its own cholesterol. Anyway, my diet is low-fat, except for hamburgers.

[chiang mai]

Thanks for the response, chiang mai. The numbers are current, but I did not exactly fast that morning (had some fresh fruit and diet cola). My data on the hospital lab printout says the triglyceride range is acceptable from 35 to 160, HDL from 27 to 67, and LDL 0 to 121. If their ranges are correct, my HDL is is roughly midrange. My ratio of total cholesterol to HDL is 4.7:1. However, the article in wikipedia states that "The desirable LDL level is considered to be less than 100 mg/dL (2.6 mmol/L)[15], although a newer target of <70 mg/dL can be considered in higher risk individuals based on some of the above-mentioned trials," quoting the American Heart Association.

What more can I do - swim 8 hours per day? As I read, I wonder how much diet can affect cholesterol level when so much of the body produces its own cholesterol. Anyway, my diet is low-fat, except for hamburgers.

I looked at the ranges used by Burmungrad for these tests and they don't match some of the ones that you are quoting but perhaps different hospitals use different methods/calculations? Regardless, I'm pretty sure your Triglycerides are high and that can be just as dangerous as having high cholesterol. Try cutting out sugars such as coke and soft drinks maybe - also consider taking no food after 7.30pm each day so that the body has a chance to burn it off before sleeping. Afraid also you may be forced to look at your alcohol consumption since this is where Triglyceride levels show up most. Finally, perhaps not the wisest thing to have eaten before the tests since the numbers may well be distorted - try again and this time be sure to fast?

I had my annual physical nine days ago and some of the numbers came back looking kinda messy so I went radical! I stopped smoking (from 40 a day down to zero overnight and still holding, pretty good after 40 years of a bad habit), I cut my alcohol intake down to one unit per day, stopped all fried foods and dairy products and ramped up my gym activities to five days a week. I had a retest after seven days and the numbers are now excellent and I feel great so I may well stay on the health kick to see where it takes me. The message here is, you can change the outcome and the numbers if you want to, good luck.

[PeaceBlondie]

My tests are almost always done at Sripat (Maharaj). I only drink diet cola (way too much) and my drinking averages 180 ml (half a glass) of six percent wine before going to bed, and less than one beer a week. Never have smoked. I have stopped eating after 7:30 pm, and I get a lot of sleep. Yesterday, four hours of vigorous swimming.

However, I have always eaten lots of processed sugar such as candy. All my sweet teeth fell out,. but the carbon dioxide in the diet cola probably rotted my teeth.

[Sheryl]

PB, it does sound to me like you are doing as much as can reasonably be done, both in terms of liofestyle and meds. And while your numbers are ideal, they aren't awful.

Also, there is more to the risk of heart attach and strokes than the numbers.

For heart: have you has a recent stress test? This can give any early indication of decreased blood flow to the heart, for which there are int\erventions that can avert a heart attack.

For stroke: your concerns are understandable since you hace already had one infarct. A carotid doppler (essentially unltrasound of the carotid arteries) can tell whether or not there are placques building up putting you at risk for a major stroke. (And if there are, there are intreventions for that).

[lopburi3]

Well if you have been swimming previously and have followed the pool PH thread there seems to be another possibility for tooth loss.

Vejthani uses 30-160 as normal Triglyceride levels and as I recall having numbers in the 500-700 range 30 years ago consider the routine 130 range that I now have with 20mg of simvastatin to be very acceptable (for me).

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks, Sheryl. Maybe instead of waiting three more months to see my neurosurgeon, I could see my cardio specialist, whom I have neglected since the stroke. Maybe early next month.

I think I am in great shape, cardiovascularly-ish. I can throw 20-kg Thai children into the air time after time, at the swimming pool, and hardly get short of breath.

[toptuan]

Having had cholesterol-related problems, and bad side-effect from Lipitor, two of my family members have had good results with "oral chelation," (Google it); an alternative treatment, not endorsed by the AMA or other "official" medical organizations. I've been on the treatment for about five months (reduced symptoms of cholesterol/blockage problems are supposed to be evident from six months to a year into treatment.) Not overly expensive: About $150-$250 for an annual supply.

Also, most of the literature out there names common oatmeal (not instant) as a good cholesterol-reducing item to include in your regular diet.

Edited May 19, 2008 by toptuan

[dclaryjr]

Also, most of the literature out there names common oatmeal (not instant) as a good cholesterol-reducing item to include in your regular diet.

There's also a lot of literature out there that makes a good case for the whole cholesterol scare being a scam based on shaky science, and that the true benefactors of statins are drug company shareholders.

[PeaceBlondie]

Well, there is a conspiracy theory about everything, including the bad effects of drinking alcohol or gasoline. I suspect big pharma wants to make more money, but that will not get me to throw away all my well-prescribed medications so that I can start gnawing on tree bark and barking at the trees.

[chiang mai]

Thanks, Sheryl. Maybe instead of waiting three more months to see my neurosurgeon, I could see my cardio specialist, whom I have neglected since the stroke. Maybe early next month.

I think I am in great shape, cardiovascularly-ish. I can throw 20-kg Thai children into the air time after time, at the swimming pool, and hardly get short of breath.

I am sure that given all the positive things you are doing combined with your awareness of the issues that you are most likely in fine form although as you say, checking in with the Cardio periodically is sensible. There is not always a direct relationship between "the numbers", an absence of symptoms and the risk level - as Sheryl has quite correctly stated, a stress test is the best non-invasive guide to confirm matters. Case in point, I had no symptoms whatsoever, am fairly active and my numbers were OK or better. It was only after failing a stress test that I realized I had problems. Even today with a 90%+ blockage I suffer no symptoms whatsoever and my cardio attributes this to having a substantial amount of heart reserve and the fact that I take Asprin and Plavix. Without the latter I am told I would be symptomatic, probably to the extreme - I therefore understand now why they call this type of disease the "silent killer" and how it manages to incapacitate so many people.

[JohnC]

In answer to the OP, I was diagnosed with very high cholestrol around 14 years ago and was prescribed Lipitor under the name of atorvastatin, when I retired just under three years ago here I changed to bestatin 20mg daily, they cost me 178 baht for 30 tablets (one months supply). I have my liver function and full range of bloods etc checked every six months (down from three months) as agreed by my doctor. Everything is fine, no side effects and in addition I had a 64slice CT scan last year (MRI) and got the all clear from the cardioligist. I never buy any of my medication from the hospital but use Facimo here in Pattaya as I find them the cheapest.

[centric]

ZZZ I agree,having been a high cholesterol sufferer for 25years,except for the bit "high cholesterol is a symptom of a bad diet" in a large number of people, such as myself,the problem is hereditary.Any dietary changes have a minimal effect on lowering such cholesterol.

Experts are still divided on the use of statins which have their own long term problems.But they are a multi billion dollar industry as were Vioxx!

With the onset of my mother's kidney disease the specialists could not say if it was caused by the cholesterol or the use of statins.

Have to agree it is hereditary in many cases as is mine. My father died of it in the 1960's. I simply produce too much cholesterol so diet would not work for me either.

After one heart op because of my high cholesterol I would not like to take the advice of many web sites talking of wonder fruits, diets and such. But each to their own. I'll take the statins even though I am on 80 mg a day at present.

Doctor makes regular checks when I am home to make sure the kidneys are in good order.

edit for kidney check.

Edited May 22, 2008 by centric

[dclaryjr]

Well, there is a conspiracy theory about everything,

No conspiracy theory here -- I'm talking about well researched books by respected authors. If you want to read a pretty convincing argument for how we get bad advice based on shaky science, read "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes. It's not an easy read but it's an eye opener.

[ZZZ]

ZZZ I agree,having been a high cholesterol sufferer for 25years,except for the bit "high cholesterol is a symptom of a bad diet" in a large number of people, such as myself,the problem is hereditary.Any dietary changes have a minimal effect on lowering such cholesterol.

Experts are still divided on the use of statins which have their own long term problems.But they are a multi billion dollar industry as were Vioxx!

With the onset of my mother's kidney disease the specialists could not say if it was caused by the cholesterol or the use of statins.

Have to agree it is hereditary in many cases as is mine. My father died of it in the 1960's. I simply produce too much cholesterol so diet would not work for me either.

After one heart op because of my high cholesterol I would not like to take the advice of many web sites talking of wonder fruits, diets and such. But each to their own. I'll take the statins even though I am on 80 mg a day at present.

Doctor makes regular checks when I am home to make sure the kidneys are in good order.

edit for kidney check.

I'm not saying that this apply to you, or anyone else here, but you often hear hear about people trying diet and exercise to lower their cholesterol level without success.

Then when you ask them how long they tried it turns out they did it for two weeks or two months or even six months and then gave up, reverted back to old habits and statins.

The thing is that most natural ways of curing a condition takes a very long time, it could often take six months to a year until you get results. It makes no sense that 30-40 years of bodily abuse with a bad diet could be reversed in a few weeks. Unfortunately we are getting to used to taking a pill to instantly remove any symptoms.

The hereditary card is also often played and yes it may be the case but often it turns out that the relative in question was also on a very bad diet without exercising. Many hereditary factors are opportunistic and will only come in play if the conditions are right, a healthy diet and exercise could prevent this from happening.

In the end, even IF a healthy diet and some exercise don't lower the cholesterol level it will help with hundreds of other conditions that you may have or may get in the future, to revert back to a bad diet and take statins to relieve the problem is not a good solution.

[moldy]

A friend recently had a Full Check up at a Large Hospital

under their Check Up scheme. Cost Bht 10,000

Cholesterol Control was diagnosed as necessary

and 3 Months supply of LIPITOR 10mg

was prescibed - cost Bht 5,000

Is Lipitor a "Wonder Drug" ?

Does it have any known side effects ?

My friend has initially declined the prescription

pending investigation of others experience of its use

and other (maybe) cheaper suppliers !!!

Any Comments would be welcome.

Bill

Do you think the odd helping of cabbage and seeing the inside of a gym now and then might help.

[Pakboong]

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/conte...2994_page_6.htm

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/conte...68052092994.htm

Two good articles on Statins.

[Oldfield]

A vegetarian diet is supposed to be good for people with high cholesterol.

Also egg yolks are very high in cholesterol.

[Tolley]

There seems to be a bit of a myth re cholesterol and heart attacks.

As far as I know there is no definitive link between heart attack and choleseterol levels.

In fact people with low levels can have heart attacks.

Personally I wouldn't take any of the prescription medications as they don't seem to be any better than some of the lifestyle changes that can lower levels.

For tryclierides fish oil is effectiveand for cholesterol and blood pressure garlic is quite effective at lowering levels.

The side effects fo the prescription drugs just don't seem worth it to me.