I'm Moving To Thailand In The Future

[Sheryl]

I'd say the alcohol abuse counselor was wrong. It sounds like you are not an alcoholic. An alcoholic can not stop drinking without help.

I think it is irrelevant when an non-alcoholic talks about stopping without the use of AA. George Bush recently did this.

Actually the medical definition of an alcoholic is that they are unable to drink in moderation/a controlled manner (i,e. they cannot, for example,decide to have only one drink and then stick to that - the first drink sets in motion a compulsion to drink more).

Which is why complete abstinence is the only option for an alcoholic.

Alcoholics also an intense urge to commence drinking which they have extreme diffculty in controlling or unable to control, although there is variation in when that craving is present: for some it is only when stressed, for others it is at night and connected with sleep issues, and for some it is every day.

The vast majority of alcoholics are unable to stop drinking without external help but there are cases where an extreme threat to their well-being is sufficient. So I would not categorically state that alcoholics have to have help to stop drinking, although certainly most do, and those who do it on their own were usually able to do so only when it became an obvious and extreme necessity for self-preservation...by which time it is often too late. (For some alcoholics, even that doesn't work)

[RickThai]

.I'd say the alcohol abuse counselor was wrong. It sounds like you are not an alcoholic. An alcoholic can not stop drinking without help.

I think it is irrelevant when an non-alcoholic talks about stopping without the use of AA. George Bush recently did this.

Johnniey posted, "I think it is irrelevant when an non-alcoholic talks.."

Not sure what your point is. Even if you have the gift of diagnosing someone as an alcolholic or not based upon a few Internet fourm posts (which I doubt), I think your comment is irrelevant. The important thing is to stop drinking, period.

How each individual does it is up to the individual, as long as it works for that individual.

I personnally have always had a very strong willpower and a sense of personal responsibility. (I'm kind of a personal control-freak.) I believe that .only I can control what I eat or what I drink or what I do.

Having said that, the real clincher to my having stop drinking was being on deaths doorstep for 8 months, and dealing with intense pain for that same timeframe. I sincerely hope that I can spare other people from that experience.

I'm all for AA, support meetings, religion, and anything else that will make you quit drinking if you have damaged your liver and drinking is causing you problems in your life.

So rather than state negative things that you might believe, but otherwise have no basis in fact, perhaps you could just post things that worked for you.

Also, how did George Bush get into this? Were you his personal physcian or privy to details of his private life? If old George quit the juice, cocaine, etc. soley due to his strong Christian faith or whatever, than I am happy for him.

Quitting and staying off is what counts.

RickThai

[Johnniey]

.I'd say the alcohol abuse counselor was wrong. It sounds like you are not an alcoholic. An alcoholic can not stop drinking without help.

I think it is irrelevant when an non-alcoholic talks about stopping without the use of AA. George Bush recently did this.

Johnniey posted, "I think it is irrelevant when an non-alcoholic talks.."

Not sure what your point is. Even if you have the gift of diagnosing someone as an alcolholic or not based upon a few Internet fourm posts (which I doubt), I think your comment is irrelevant. The important thing is to stop drinking, period.

How each individual does it is up to the individual, as long as it works for that individual.

I personnally have always had a very strong willpower and a sense of personal responsibility. (I'm kind of a personal control-freak.) I believe that .only I can control what I eat or what I drink or what I do.

Having said that, the real clincher to my having stop drinking was being on deaths doorstep for 8 months, and dealing with intense pain for that same timeframe. I sincerely hope that I can spare other people from that experience.

I'm all for AA, support meetings, religion, and anything else that will make you quit drinking if you have damaged your liver and drinking is causing you problems in your life.

So rather than state negative things that you might believe, but otherwise have no basis in fact, perhaps you could just post things that worked for you.

Also, how did George Bush get into this? Were you his personal physcian or privy to details of his private life? If old George quit the juice, cocaine, etc. soley due to his strong Christian faith or whatever, than I am happy for him.

Quitting and staying off is what counts.

RickThai

Rick,I can't see how I am being negative. I'll try to explain my point.

I mentioned George Bush, who everyone knows is an idiot, because he did a very irresponsible thing. To tell a nation that he quit drinking without the use of AA. I wonder how many alcoholics or potential alcoholics will remember those words and perhaps die because of it.

You have strong will-power and stopped drinking - well done! No AA for you - why mention AA? Ask any alcoholic about their experiences with will-power and you'll find that it never worked.

[RickThai]

.I'd say the alcohol abuse counselor was wrong. It sounds like you are not an alcoholic. An alcoholic can not stop drinking without help.

I think it is irrelevant when an non-alcoholic talks about stopping without the use of AA. George Bush recently did this.

Johnniey posted, "I think it is irrelevant when an non-alcoholic talks.."

Not sure what your point is. Even if you have the gift of diagnosing someone as an alcolholic or not based upon a few Internet fourm posts (which I doubt), I think your comment is irrelevant. The important thing is to stop drinking, period.

How each individual does it is up to the individual, as long as it works for that individual.

I personnally have always had a very strong willpower and a sense of personal responsibility. (I'm kind of a personal control-freak.) I believe that .only I can control what I eat or what I drink or what I do.

Having said that, the real clincher to my having stop drinking was being on deaths doorstep for 8 months, and dealing with intense pain for that same timeframe. I sincerely hope that I can spare other people from that experience.

I'm all for AA, support meetings, religion, and anything else that will make you quit drinking if you have damaged your liver and drinking is causing you problems in your life.

So rather than state negative things that you might believe, but otherwise have no basis in fact, perhaps you could just post things that worked for you.

Also, how did George Bush get into this? Were you his personal physcian or privy to details of his private life? If old George quit the juice, cocaine, etc. soley due to his strong Christian faith or whatever, than I am happy for him.

Quitting and staying off is what counts.

RickThai

Rick,I can't see how I am being negative. I'll try to explain my point.

I mentioned George Bush, who everyone knows is an idiot, because he did a very irresponsible thing. To tell a nation that he quit drinking without the use of AA. I wonder how many alcoholics or potential alcoholics will remember those words and perhaps die because of it.

You have strong will-power and stopped drinking - well done! No AA for you - why mention AA? Ask any alcoholic about their experiences with will-power and you'll find that it never worked.

Johnniey:

I'm trying hard to understand where you are coming from. You obviously have some sort of (irrational/misplaced??) anger directed towards G. Bush. Maybe it's just his politics.

One thing I have discovered in my life, is the amazing amount of variety within the human race. I've seen people do things that would be unfathonable to most people. Yet they do it. So I try to stay away from absolutes like "..everyone knows [he] is an idiot..", etc.

During my hunting days, I once deliberately shot an african Cape buffalo in the stomach in order to make it charge. Although, I am not proud of it now, I did it at the suggestion of a profesional hunter, who said the night before (we were all drinking), "if you want to have some fun tomorrow Rick, shoot the buff off-shoulder".

The next day when I actually did it, caught the PH off-guard. Wounded cape buffalo are extremely dangerous and very difficult to kill once their addrenlyn get going.

The PH never for one minute thought that I would actually wound a Cape Buffalo on purpose when it was standing only 30 yards away. But I did.

The point being is that I never underestimate what people can do and have done. Thus I stay away from absolutes.

If old George says he quit drinking, drugs, etc. without attending AA, I'll believe him until I see proof otherwise. I know I quit drinking without attending AA, and I know many other people who have attended AA, and/or who have gone into expensive "dry out" centers (Betty Ford- type clinics), who still get plastered as soon as they have an opportunity.

If AA has helped you quit drinking than I am happy for you, and you are correct to recommend it to others.

But if people choose not to attend AA , for whatever reason, than for you to suggest that they will never be able to stop drinking, is doing them a disservice and (IMO) putting out information that is not only incorrect, but discouraging and out-of-place on a forum dedicated to offering support for those with a drinking problem.

Believe it or not, some drinkers are introverts, and having to attend meetings with a bunch of people, puts a lot of extra stress on them. If they can quit on their own will and stay off the booze, then Hooray for them.

I wish you well and hope you have a long, happy life.

RickThai

[cobra]

Smart money says yes,

One, your probably already alcoholic or at the very least an alcohol abuser,

Just a few sample questions off AA's "am I an alcoholic" checklist,

Do you drink alone,

Drink for entertainment,

More than two drinks a day,

.........

Two, without a significant change in your stated leisure behavior by your own admission you'll drink ~ 10 beers a day,

Your liver probably already is enlarged.

A simple litmus test is how long you can go without a drink,

Try not drinking at all for minimum 30 days,

At the end if you still do not feel any compunction to drink, no changes in your personality, behavior, etc, your probably not an alcoholic, albeit may abuse it when given opportunity.

Moderation in all things, good luck.

[cobra]

Smart money says yes,

One, your probably already alcoholic or at the very least an alcohol abuser,

Just a few sample questions off AA's "am I an alcoholic" checklist,

Do you drink alone,

Drink for entertainment,

More than two drinks a day,

.........

Two, without a significant change in your stated leisure behavior by your own admission you'll drink ~ 10 beers a day,

Your liver probably already is enlarged.

A simple litmus test is how long you can go without a drink,

Try not drinking at all for minimum 30 days,

At the end if you still do not feel any compunction to drink, no changes in your personality, behavior, etc, your probably not an alcoholic, albeit may abuse it when given opportunity.

Moderation in all things, good luck.

[trisailer]

"As everyone here said already. You are what you want yourself to be and then you become that even more"

Blonde hair is genetic, the evidence of the genetic component in alcoholism is weak at best and is related to impulse control. I think that everyone is motivated by two things; a life wish or a death wish so it begs the question what is it about me that demands that I consume large quanties of poison to balance my life? I know, "it makes me feel better" makes life more tolorable, I'm a different person; more fun. It begs the question; what is missing from my life that requires me to consume poison to get through the day.

Every stupid thing, and there have been many, that I've ever done has been under the influence so one of the problems is that you basically agree to accept that every time you drink you can not predict what will happen while drunk.

Those are practicle reasons not to be dependent on substances, but there is also spritual reasons. Scott Peck said that substances offer us a pathway to sprit. That's why we call booze sprits. By substituting booze for the spritual connection we as humans would normally cultivate we cut ourselves off from the power of our own human sprit. It stunts our growth so to speak. Also, I think that all of us have unresolved issues from childhood or later. These issues have a powerful influence on our lives. Personally I think that by the time we hit or fifties we should have resolved some of this stuff so we can live a more balanced life and use substances to enhance our already happy lives not completely dominate it.

To the OP I think that the very fact that you are pondering this indicates that you are aware that you are dependent on alcohol to complet you. You can't be sure unless you stop for a time and check where your at. That's what got me thinking about it in the beginning and caused me to examine if I was using alcohol or it was using me.

I think that the single most important question you need to ask yourself is "is alcohol making my life unmanageable?" That will mean different things to different people. For me it ment; Is alcohol getting me in trouble with the law? (drunk driving) is alcohol really making my life more manageable or less? Am I able to drink what I want and always predict "what will happen"? For me it was a "master of my fate captain of my soul" thing. I never liked people telling me what to do and how to live so why would I let this substance do it?

A shrink asked me if I could stop for 3 months. Up to that time I believed I could stop anytime I wanted, but I struggled with this and actually began drinking more when the threat of loosing this crutch became apparent. As a result my behavior got worse and I hit a bottom that brought me to AA. It was the best thing that ever happened to me. Eliminating substances allow me to journey to a place I never imagined possible. AA kept me sober to do the work of transforming myself into the man I alway wanted to be. It is the single greatest thing in my life.

I still use substances from time to time, but they don't use me.

[Johnniey]

If old George says he quit drinking, drugs, etc. without attending AA, I'll believe him until I see proof otherwise. I know I quit drinking without attending AA, and I know many other people who have attended AA, and/or who have gone into expensive "dry out" centers (Betty Ford- type clinics), who still get plastered as soon as they have an opportunity.

I quit eating Chocolate Fudge cake and a whole tub of vanilla ice-cream every night but I wouldn't post that I did it without attending Overeaters Annonymous on a forum for people who eat too much as I don't have a food addiction. I did it because I was getting a belly so stopped. Now, people with a food addiction can't, so I believe.

One thing I've learned in helping others is to say what I did do and not what I didn't do.

And regarding Bush and AA - AA is an anonymous program for alcoholics.

I apologize - I was sure that everyone thought he was an idiot. I have no anger towards the guy at all. But, again, it was irresponsible to say, "no AA for me!".

But if people choose not to attend AA , for whatever reason, than for you to suggest that they will never be able to stop drinking, is doing them a disservice and (IMO) putting out information that is not only incorrect, but discouraging and out-of-place on a forum dedicated to offering support for those with a drinking problem.

People can stop drinking without the use of AA. I've never said otherwise

People can stop eating ice-cream without the use of OA.

Thanks for the nice thoughts - hope you have a long happy life too

[chops]

Me, no job. Plenty of time on my hands and not an old fart(I'm 30).

Keeping away from booze here is a full time job though in itself.

[Mooner]

Most people could probably drink moderately (6-12 beers a week) for their entire adult lives and not have any major issues with drink. However, drinking heavy and getting plastered (6-12 drinks in one night) adds up over time and does irrepparable damage to your liver.

All this talk is making me feel a bit concerned!

[changraider]

Way back in my 20s I was a voluntary counsellor with the Alcohol Recovery Project in the UK. They gave me what I believe to be excellent training, which was completely in line with the World Health Organisation's position on alcohol and drug abuse, to wit. . .

Alcohol is one of a very small number of physically addictive drugs. Addiction to alcohol is progressive, progressing through social, psychological, and physical stages (these stages may be concurrent). Anyone who drinks long and hard enough will become an addict, though some may have a predisposition. One's liver will be damaged regardless of whether you consider yourself to be an alcoholic or not.

If OP's regular non-holiday drinking is 20 + large beers a week, then he is drinking twice as much as the 'safe' limit suggested by doctors (in the UK). And if he's been doing this for a long time, then he's running a bigger risk.

To enjoy a happy retirement which includes alcohol, maybe drink less per session, and less frequently, not to the point of drunkenness, take a month off a couple of times a year, learn to enjoy non-alcoholic drinks, and some hobbies would be good too, maybe learn Thai, or sailing, or swimming. . .

All the best.

[chops]

Man, I live here. Keeping away from booze is full time job. I'm drunk now. But it keeps me hard at work keeping me from drinking 10 more changs.

[ludditeman]

In my home country I would take drugs and get drunk after work every day. Normal life was dull and I was lonely, so I needed the lift.

Here I was drunk every night for the first few weeks then got over it, plenty to do, plenty of people to do it with.

I still go out and get drunk a couple of nights each week (with friends, when before it was on my own)

But now life is more active and exciting and I am not stuck in a boring job.

[chops]

I went to Soi 6 the other day and the wifey only gave me 600 baht for the whole night for booze, love & all. Needless to say, I had to stretch my funds quite far to last me. Obviously I didn't get laid.

No man should ever let his woman handle finances!

[kbond]

Come on over and go through your own learning curve about Tland. This is a great country and has been very good to me. But, I quit drinking over 35 years ago, to.

[malcoml]

I can say with that coming to Pattaya would be like throwing petrol onto a fire.

In my home country I can go months without even touching a drink. Go forward a few years and here I am in Pattaya and being drunk is as regular as having lunch each day. Dinner is of course often missed due to being intoxicated or at best is a doner or a few kebab sticks on Walking Street.

The problem here is that everything revolves around alcohol and sex.

For those that think there is plenty to do here that is right but unfortunately everythign revolves around alcohol and sex.

[StreetCowboy]

I can say with that coming to Pattaya would be like throwing petrol onto a fire.

In my home country I can go months without even touching a drink. Go forward a few years and here I am in Pattaya and being drunk is as regular as having lunch each day. Dinner is of course often missed due to being intoxicated or at best is a doner or a few kebab sticks on Walking Street.

The problem here is that everything revolves around alcohol and sex.

For those that think there is plenty to do here that is right but unfortunately everythign revolves around alcohol and sex.

You might want to think about stopping for a little while. There's a thriving AA in Pattaya, and as they say it's "just for today"; you can always drink tomorrow. Staying off the drink until the meeting might be a challenge, but you should be able to manage that. Then go along, and expose yourself to challenge. And then tomorrow, decide what you want to do. I mean, DECIDE what you WANT to do. and try to do it...

http://www.aathailand.org/regeastsbd.html

Of course, there;s another school of thought that says AA is a waste of time until you're desperate to stop.

I can see the merits in both arguments.

SC

[ding]

Becoming an alcoholic is the best thing that ever happened to me! I've been sober now 14 years and 12-step Thailand is the center of my adventurous life. Being an alcoholic in a foreign country offers one an experience not available to the average traveller. There are AA meetings in many places and the connections with new friends is fantastic. Hurry up, now, increase your drinking and get into AA!

Well put. For me it's same same but different, for sure. AA in Thailand is great, I love the fellowship and characters.

To the OP. Not unusual to use increased free time to increase drinking. It happened to my dad. Drank himself to death soon after retiring.

[MissesGrin]

From the sound of it, you may be headed down that path. But it's never too late to change your ways. It's all about will power and the desire to change. Do you really want to have a different future? If so, then start living a different present.

[GrahamF]

From the sound of it, you may be headed down that path. But it's never too late to change your ways. It's all about will power and the desire to change. Do you really want to have a different future? If so, then start living a different present.

Will power and self knowledge didn't work for me. A desire to change is a good beginning.

[changraider]

From the sound of it, you may be headed down that path. But it's never too late to change your ways. It's all about will power and the desire to change. Do you really want to have a different future? If so, then start living a different present.

Will power and self knowledge didn't work for me. A desire to change is a good beginning.

I thought we were only allowed to say what did work, not what didn't work, on this forum - or are there different rules for AAers?

[StreetCowboy]

From the sound of it, you may be headed down that path. But it's never too late to change your ways. It's all about will power and the desire to change. Do you really want to have a different future? If so, then start living a different present.

Will power and self knowledge didn't work for me. A desire to change is a good beginning.

I thought we were only allowed to say what did work, not what didn't work, on this forum - or are there different rules for AAers?

I think the emphasis is more on constructively sharing experience, and less on futile bickering amongst ourselves. I've not foiund anyone that got sober by pointless bickering, but I've met a few that went to the pub in preference to it

SC

I suppose will-power might work for others, but for me, the challenge has always been to find something else to do, and establish a lifestyle that did not revolve around the pub. I was never very good at sitting at home not drinking...

Edited November 27, 2011 by StreetCowboy

[changraider]

From the sound of it, you may be headed down that path. But it's never too late to change your ways. It's all about will power and the desire to change. Do you really want to have a different future? If so, then start living a different present.

Will power and self knowledge didn't work for me. A desire to change is a good beginning.

I thought we were only allowed to say what did work, not what didn't work, on this forum - or are there different rules for AAers?

I think the emphasis is more on constructively sharing experience, and less on futile bickering amongst ourselves. I've not foiund anyone that got sober by pointless bickering, but I've met a few that went to the pub in preference to it

SC

I almost always enjoy your posts SC, and usually find them entertaining as well as constructive. I also am averse to petty bickering on any forum, especially this one. But if missgrin finds that willpower works that's great even though it's diametrically different from AA ideology. My initial question remains the same - are AAers afforded special priveleges on this forum?

[StreetCowboy]

....

I think the emphasis is more on constructively sharing experience, and less on futile bickering amongst ourselves. I've not foiund anyone that got sober by pointless bickering, but I've met a few that went to the pub in preference to it

SC

I almost always enjoy your posts SC, and usually find them entertaining as well as constructive. I also am averse to petty bickering on any forum, especially this one. But if missgrin finds that willpower works that's great even though it's diametrically different from AA ideology. My initial question remains the same - are AAers afforded special priveleges on this forum?

I think that there is no harm in sharing the futilities of our unsuccessful struggles. THere is no harm in saying what we tried, in vain. The ill-will starts when people start suggesting that one method or another will not work for someone else...

SC

[changraider]

....

I think the emphasis is more on constructively sharing experience, and less on futile bickering amongst ourselves. I've not foiund anyone that got sober by pointless bickering, but I've met a few that went to the pub in preference to it

SC

I almost always enjoy your posts SC, and usually find them entertaining as well as constructive. I also am averse to petty bickering on any forum, especially this one. But if missgrin finds that willpower works that's great even though it's diametrically different from AA ideology. My initial question remains the same - are AAers afforded special priveleges on this forum?

I think that there is no harm in sharing the futilities of our unsuccessful struggles. THere is no harm in saying what we tried, in vain. The ill-will starts when people start suggesting that one method or another will not work for someone else...

SC

In that case I'm sure no one will object if I say that some estimates of AA failure rates are as high as 95%. Even the 'successful' ones merely replace one dependency with another, albeit a less damaging one.

[SaNim]

I almost always enjoy your posts SC, and usually find them entertaining as well as constructive. I also am averse to petty bickering on any forum, especially this one. But if missgrin finds that willpower works that's great even though it's diametrically different from AA ideology. My initial question remains the same - are AAers afforded special priveleges on this forum?

From a non participant , it seems so.

[GrahamF]

From the sound of it, you may be headed down that path. But it's never too late to change your ways. It's all about will power and the desire to change. Do you really want to have a different future? If so, then start living a different present.

Will power and self knowledge didn't work for me. A desire to change is a good beginning.

I guess that I'll add that I am in favor of any method that one uses to achieve sobriety, as long as it doesn't hurt others of course. At the end of the day it means that there is one less drunk out there creating havoc in their own and others lives.

[changraider]

From the sound of it, you may be headed down that path. But it's never too late to change your ways. It's all about will power and the desire to change. Do you really want to have a different future? If so, then start living a different present.

Will power and self knowledge didn't work for me. A desire to change is a good beginning.

I guess that I'll add that I am in favor of any method that one uses to achieve sobriety, as long as it doesn't hurt others of course. At the end of the day it means that there is one less drunk out there creating havoc in their own and others lives.

Agreed, and not just 'out there' but also in their homes. The unusual thing about this sub-forum is that it's open to people who sometimes 'drink too much' and want to manage their drinking, and also to people who consider themselves to be 'alcoholics' for which the prescription is usually agreed to be abstinence. So I guess it's not surprising that there's the occasional crosswire; what does surprise me is that the sub-forum is so quiet given the range of drink issues usually found in retired expat communities. Anyway, that's a different story, have a good day :-)

[rahi]

I think it's all about self control and reasons behind the drinking. As some said here earlier, they found lady which kept them sober and some said it was downhill slope due cheap booze.

Social drinking does not require daily dose. And the drink itself isn't company either. I think you should think about the reasons (issues?) behind drinking then get them sorted and continue as normal "casual" drinker (I think you know what I mean). Things tends to get from bad to worse in Thailand if they are negative.

Edited December 26, 2011 by rahi

[chargers2011]

I've been drinking for 23 years and a functional alcoholic for about 15 years now. I don't drink everyday. I usually just drink on my days off. When I was single, I didn't worry about my drinking (one of the good things about being single). Now I have to keep it under control because I have a wife and a young boy. I know when I get drunk, my wife looks at me and thinks "what a loser". Last week, I decided to quit drinking until my next vacation to Thailand in November. I've never quit drinking before and I'm sure it won't be easy. I want to drink again, but I want to do a better job of being under control. I want to keep it under 6 beers/day on my days off and during vacations. I'm going to do my best to control it, because I don't want to be like my sister and two brothers. They can't drink at all because they became alcoholics to maximum.

Best of luck, mate. Make the most of your sobriety, and you might not want to go back...

Your health will benefit, though you might not notice it at first, and you'll be able to get more done; I'd have never got the job I'm in now if I'd been drinking - I'd not have been so positive and fresh at the interview, even if I had had nothing to drink on the plane over... just the general lethargy of too many late nights would have taken its toll.

See you in November!

SC

It's only been a week without a drink for me. You are right, I do get so much more done. I get to spend a lot more time with my boy and wife (although I still need my alone time). I exercise every day and I'm committed to getting rid of my beer belly by November. Also, things are much more easy going. I'm not in a hurry to get all family duties out of the way so that I can drink. I'm even going to start meditating. I'm 44 years old and I can feel my body deteriorating. Time for a change.

I was able to quit for 2 months. Back to drinking usual. I buy an 18 pack of beer on the weekend and I drink at home. I have it under control right now, but it will only get worse in the future.