How Long Before We All Get Kicked Out?

[IanForbes]

As someone already said... "The sky is falling"

Get real, nobody is going to throw anyone out of Thailand. But, they MIGHT make more restrictive rules about investing in the Thailand. There is the old saying, a fool and his money are soon parted, that still holds true today.

It's really no different than second marriages in North America or Europe where a wealthy man marries a pretty young wife who shortly thereafter takes him to the cleaners. Case in point are all the celebrity marriages that end up in acrimonious settlements. The Paul McCartney vs Heather Mills fiasco is just one example.

[EnhancePlus]

Never happen, the all mighty Baht(tourist) drives the Country and goodness knows we farangs spend mak mak Baht day in and day out on any and everything, beside I don't think Thailand need imagines of bar girls prostesting in the street, because a source of income was kickout of country for no reason, talking about blood shed, a bunch of angry(Batter by Thai lover/husbands) Thai women going face to face with the police. a match made in hel_l.

I can see it now. They be some mean mothers if they want to.

[thirdeyedmt]

How people conceive Thailand depends on many things, but length of stay seems upmost. At some point anyone with a spark of inteligence realizes that they are behind enemy lines.

Lets justy consider the name of the most popular political party in recent times: Thai Love Thai Party.

What next - That Hate Foreigner Party (Not that far out really).

Most people I know have actually thought about the prospect of having to dump there house or condo in the event of an unfriendly power shift.

Then ofcourse that is to ridiculous to contemplate in such a stable country run by well adjusted logical individuals

hear hear

[Shotime]

"I live in Pattaya and I do believe that Thais are increasingly feeling the effects of the ongoing political crisis and world economic crisis. I have observed that they are a bit short with each other and yes, they sometimes vent on foreigners. I believe that we are viewed as a low risk target and if a Thai is rude or agressive to a foreigner, what recourse does he really have? It pretty much boils down to accepting your fate or adopting the time honored strategy of "voting with your feet" and relocating to a place where you are accepted."

It'll never happen, I agree. The authorities just want to get rid of the losers, and there are many. The authorities would like to see certain cities, and certain parts of other cities, disappear. I can't find fault in that.

I'd be more concerned with the low risk target aspects of it.

You feel accepted in P_____a?

Edited June 5, 2009 by Shotime

[basjke]

It's really no different than second marriages in North America or Europe where a wealthy man marries a pretty young wife who shortly thereafter takes him to the cleaners.

I can say I know many people in my home country.I also know a lot of people in thailand since I live here for some 15 years now.

I don't know many people in europe who have been taking to the cleaners,but I know a lot of them in thailand.

[basjke]

IMHO I don't see foresee any official policy to deport foreigners. Recent events with the Aussie mom who was acused of stealing a bar mat shows that Thailand does care about its international reputation. Because of intensive international negative press her case was expedited and her fine was paid by the Phuket Govenor. At most I would imagine that the government would simply increase the bureaucratic hassel of remaining in Thailand longer than a couple of weeks.

I live in Pattaya and I do believe that Thais are increasingly feeling the effects of the ongoing political crisis and world economic crisis. I have observed that they are a bit short with each other and yes, they sometimes vent on foreigners. I believe that we are viewed as a low risk target and if a Thai is rude or agressive to a foreigner, what recourse does he really have? It pretty much boils down to accepting your fate or adopting the time honored strategy of "voting with your feet" and relocating to a place where you are accepted.

The "eviction process" started a long time ago when TOXIN took office. Before that, foreigners seemed to be wanted and tolerated.

The visa/business rule changes--particularly since about 2002--are clear evidence that the govt. does have an official policy to rid Thailand of as many foreigners as possible.

Under the pretense of security, they first came for tourists that, for whatever reason, did not get a tourist visa prior to entering Thailand.......they called them "border runners."

Then they came for tourists with tourist visas........

Then, they came for foreign expats married to Thai wives......

Now they are cracking down more on tourists that enter the Kingdom without a tourist visa......

They have already made life difficult for various categories of investors and virtually any person that wants to work in Thailand.......

In the future they will no doubt start cracking down on foreigners who are purchasing several condos and renting them out for profit, often using straw man companies to do so.

And in the future they will not doubt start abrogating the grandfathered in laws.......on that day the people who currently think the visa/business rule changes are great for Thailand will receive a wake up call....maybe.

They do not want us here.........that is what the visa system is telling us. If you can't see it, you are blind.

One person already stated that nobody should invest in this country..........I agree, don't invest in Thailand. There are other countries that are far more receptive: Malaysia, the Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam, Indonesia.

I agree with you completely on this JR it started basically when square head came to power .However you forgot some important fact in your summary of the rules he created.First thing he did was multiplying with 10 the cost for a work permit.

Probably because Thailand doesn't need any knowledge from the western world as they are superior to the rest of the world.

I always remember what somebody said to me many years ago.

People who are stupid because they didn't have the chance for a proper education are not worse then educated people.People who are stupid but think they are the smartest are dangerous people.

[monkfish]

Can't see them throwing out ALL westerners in the near future, just imagine how much pension money is brought into the country each year! yo!

I could however imagine them making it more difficult for those without 400k on a bank account doing nothing to stay here on permanent basis.

In fact if you don't have 400k or a job paying 50K you have little other choice but to leave! Unless you are a teacher of course?? then 30K is OK

[basjke]

Can't see them throwing out ALL westerners in the near future, just imagine how much pension money is brought into the country each year! yo!

I could however imagine them making it more difficult for those without 400k on a bank account doing nothing to stay here on permanent basis.

In fact if you don't have 400k or a job paying 50K you have little other choice but to leave! Unless you are a teacher of course?? then 30K is OK

No offence meant but to correct you the sum is 800.000 baht in an account.

[Geekfreaklover]

I think the general consensus is that The powers that be will not kick out foreigners. They will simply make foreigners feel more and more unwelcome until they make the decision to leave. I've been living in Thailand for almost ten years, business, work permit, pay taxes, children in school etc etc. I was under the impression that the more I understood about the country the more I realised that the status que is basically racist. I think I was wrong. I think that the country has become more racist during my stay.

Thai style is when things go wrong not to accept the blame. Instead point the finger. I think the finger may be pointed at foreigners, for what reason I do not know. I guess because they are not Thai. I sense a sea change. It's a shame because most of the people generally want our money in the country. Not us. Our money.

The recent land ownership legislation is a disgusting misuse of power, and I would imagine will only make the red shirt support stronger.

Edited June 5, 2009 by Geekfreaklover

[Geekfreaklover]

Can't see them throwing out ALL westerners in the near future, just imagine how much pension money is brought into the country each year! yo!

I could however imagine them making it more difficult for those without 400k on a bank account doing nothing to stay here on permanent basis.

In fact if you don't have 400k or a job paying 50K you have little other choice but to leave! Unless you are a teacher of course?? then 30K is OK

No offence meant but to correct you the sum is 800.000 baht in an account.

I think that it went up to 800k and then back down to 400k.

Am not positive as I work. But i think it went up and back down.

[basjke]

Can't see them throwing out ALL westerners in the near future, just imagine how much pension money is brought into the country each year! yo!

I could however imagine them making it more difficult for those without 400k on a bank account doing nothing to stay here on permanent basis.

In fact if you don't have 400k or a job paying 50K you have little other choice but to leave! Unless you are a teacher of course?? then 30K is OK

No offence meant but to correct you the sum is 800.000 baht in an account.

I think that it went up to 800k and then back down to 400k.

Am not positive as I work. But i think it went up and back down.

400K is for people married to a thai citizen.800K for retirement visa.

[IMA_FARANG]

Well we all know that Thailand is a bit of a mickey-mouse country with an inflated ego and most of us have learnt that the powers that be in this country despise ordinary farangs. We have come to accept that unless we are especially wealthy our presence here is mildly tolerated. Thai culture teaches the uneducated locals that they are superior to us, and the educated Thais resent us because they know in all honesty that this is not true. Perhaps they have an inferiority complex.. but one thing for sure is that in Thailand they most certainly call the shots and stick together for their own interested so in that respect when we are in Thailand we are most certainly at the bottom of the barrel.

I am wondering how long it will be before we are evicted from this country permanently, and what will happen if we lose the right to own condos and the right to be married to a Thai.

I say this seriously because I dont think its too far fetched that things may actually come to this eventually.

Who was the rock group that had that song?

Paranoia...may destroy ya?

[Ulysses G.]

But I remember, prior to 2002, when virtually no person had a visa problem.......in fact, it was so easy to get a long-term visa solution that I am sure most people never thought much about it......same going way back to 1986.

Nobody thought about how many visas you could get in a row before being thrown out or tagged in negative terms. It was a business.....they wanted our money.........the police were in on it making lots of money off of the system that was in place.

And if was far less expensive to get the visa........and it was possible to get multiple visas in many places........the entire system has become far more restrictive, complicated, and expensive.

It was cheaper, I will give you that, but prices always go up. It is a fact of life.

As far as no one being worried about visas, you either have a very selective memory or were very lucky. We were always trying to figure out how to even get a double tourist visa and everyone was doing visa runs to Malaysia all of the time- there was not even such thing as a one year visa back then (that you could get from an embassy overseas) - and I remember being told I had to "go back to my own country" in 1992 in Vietnam at the Thai Embassy and again in about 1995 in Singapore - no particular reason - just one of those crackdowns they had every now and then. The Thais have been on the verge of throwing us all out for a very long time.

A lot of other people had the same problem at the same time and some were thrown out of Thailand with no return stamps in their passports. It is always easy to make the past seem better than it really was!

Edited June 6, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[JR Texas]

Well we all know that Thailand is a bit of a mickey-mouse country with an inflated ego and most of us have learnt that the powers that be in this country despise ordinary farangs. We have come to accept that unless we are especially wealthy our presence here is mildly tolerated. Thai culture teaches the uneducated locals that they are superior to us, and the educated Thais resent us because they know in all honesty that this is not true. Perhaps they have an inferiority complex.. but one thing for sure is that in Thailand they most certainly call the shots and stick together for their own interested so in that respect when we are in Thailand we are most certainly at the bottom of the barrel.

I am wondering how long it will be before we are evicted from this country permanently, and what will happen if we lose the right to own condos and the right to be married to a Thai.

I say this seriously because I dont think its too far fetched that things may actually come to this eventually.

Who was the rock group that had that song?

Paranoia...may destroy ya?

I want to add something to this discussion.......those responsible for immigration/visas are police officers......their task should be to prevent people from entering the country who pose some risk to the country......they should be focused on security.

Instead, they are focused on how much money you have in your pocket, how many days you have spent inside Thailand, how many visas you have from Cambodia, etc.

It is almost unbelievable to exit/enter Thailand and watch as they spend time--not looking at you and assessing your behavior--but counting "days" in your passport.

They should be looking at you, right in the eyes, and assessing whether you are a threat or not (and that is why most immigration officers do in other countries.......good examples are the USA, Israel, and China).

The changes were supposed to be about security......but they morphed into something characterized by xenophobia w/ a focus on income/money.

In what other country would a govt. actually give a rat's ass about whether or not one member of a married couple gave money to another to buy land or a house or start a business? Only in Thailand!

In my own country, USA, nobody cares if a foreign spouse living with an American citizen gives him/her money.......why care.....no reason to care....only in Thailand do they try to make it against the law for a foreign spouse of a Thai person to help them out financially.

What does raising the bar to get a marriage extension (and they don't even call it a visa) from 200,000 to 400,000 baht have anything to do with security? Nothing.......pure xenophobia.....a blatant attempt to break up mixed race families.

I am all for security. But many if not all of the rule changes have had almost nothing to do with security....and that was what we were told the changes were for in the first place.

If we are lucky, many of the rule changes will be abrogated by a more enlightened government in the future.....but just the opposite seems to be happening now.

[Dakhar]

Yea for an extra 200 baht I get that scented water poured on me too..... with a wry smile and an "up to you."

Well... stop celebrating Songkran with BGs than you won't have any problem.

The point of my post is..... just because someone pours scented water on your head.... don't get the idea that:

A) You are now "One" witht the Thais

You are a Thai

C) You are now seen as a Thai

you will never ever be a Thai, and this goes for me too.... and Thank the good Lord above for that!

Will they ever kick me out?

The better question is, would I care?

Answer:

absolutley not

[jackr]

What tosh. And to what end, to make like Burma/North Korea? Why on earth would they go down that path! Be good if they did have a serious cull and weed out the undesirables - including the c*nt living next door to me - but to say no farangs, period, would be suicide.

Even if they don't want us here, I'd rather stay somewhere I enjoy where I'm not wanted than somewhere I'm wanted and don't enjoy

[venturalaw]

Well we all know that Thailand is a bit of a mickey-mouse country with an inflated ego and most of us have learnt that the powers that be in this country despise ordinary farangs. We have come to accept that unless we are especially wealthy our presence here is mildly tolerated. Thai culture teaches the uneducated locals that they are superior to us, and the educated Thais resent us because they know in all honesty that this is not true. Perhaps they have an inferiority complex.. but one thing for sure is that in Thailand they most certainly call the shots and stick together for their own interested so in that respect when we are in Thailand we are most certainly at the bottom of the barrel.

I am wondering how long it will be before we are evicted from this country permanently, and what will happen if we lose the right to own condos and the right to be married to a Thai.

I say this seriously because I dont think its too far fetched that things may actually come to this eventually.

Not too far fetched, true, however my guess is (just a guess) that it will be certain groups that will be allowed to stay - those married to Thai citizens that provide support, and those who own businesses that provide jobs for Thai citizens and are not in competition with Thai businesses. As I said, merely a guess, but I certainly agree with your premise - our remaining here as guests is arbitrary at best.

Edited June 6, 2009 by venturalaw

[webfact]

Live with that - Hostility can be seen everywhere in Thai society and it was old square head who introduced it and nailed it into the brain of a lot of Thais... to every level of Thai society.

TRT and all that other ideological sh5t. The national card was played.

Thais won't change their mind (easily) if they got an opinion on something. "Tam dee dai dee, tam shua dai shua".

I know Thailand for 29y and live and work in this country since 23 years. i can see major changes in the behavior towards foreigners. Its going to be bad.

Indeed during the time of old square head Thais were "advised" to marry Thais and I remember that very well! I don't know it was Purachai or Mr. T. who gave this "advise".

/edit: wording

Edited June 6, 2009 by webfact

[JR Texas]

Live with that - Hostility can be seen everywhere in Thai society and it was old square head who introduced it and nailed it into the brain of a lot of Thais... to every level of Thai society.

TRT and all that other ideological sh5t. The national card was played.

Thais won't change their mind (easily) if they got an opinion on something. "Tam dee dai dee, tam shua dai shua".

I know Thailand for 29y and live and work in this country since 23 years. i can see major changes in the behavior towards foreigners. Its going to be bad.

Indeed during the time of old square head Thais were "advised" to marry Thais and I remember that very well! I don't know it was Purachai or Mr. T. who gave this "advise".

/edit: wording

Totally agree..........you have most definitely had your eyes open.

What surprises me most is that the so many expats that show up on ThaiVisa can't see the simple truth of what you stated.

In fact, they seem to want the bar raised even more. Incredible! If that happens it will reach them too.

Our days are numbered unless a major change in mass psychology takes place.

[Jungian]

Well we all know that Thailand is a bit of a mickey-mouse country with an inflated ego and most of us have learnt that the powers that be in this country despise ordinary farangs. We have come to accept that unless we are especially wealthy our presence here is mildly tolerated. Thai culture teaches the uneducated locals that they are superior to us, and the educated Thais resent us because they know in all honesty that this is not true. Perhaps they have an inferiority complex.. but one thing for sure is that in Thailand they most certainly call the shots and stick together for their own interested so in that respect when we are in Thailand we are most certainly at the bottom of the barrel.

I am wondering how long it will be before we are evicted from this country permanently, and what will happen if we lose the right to own condos and the right to be married to a Thai.

I say this seriously because I dont think its too far fetched that things may actually come to this eventually.

With an attitude like that why are you here in the first place? If you contribute to this society and are part of the solution not the problem you will find Thai people are very accepting including the high ranking officials who happen to be my dear friends and employers and they don't treat you any differently than anyone else. Piss one off though and... well it's the same anywhere including the USA.

[rick75]

Jungian, they are not the same in the West, you piss someone of power off here and they are likely to shot you dead and they expect and probably do get away with it. The level of accountability in this country is appauling.

[JR Texas]

Well we all know that Thailand is a bit of a mickey-mouse country with an inflated ego and most of us have learnt that the powers that be in this country despise ordinary farangs. We have come to accept that unless we are especially wealthy our presence here is mildly tolerated. Thai culture teaches the uneducated locals that they are superior to us, and the educated Thais resent us because they know in all honesty that this is not true. Perhaps they have an inferiority complex.. but one thing for sure is that in Thailand they most certainly call the shots and stick together for their own interested so in that respect when we are in Thailand we are most certainly at the bottom of the barrel.

I am wondering how long it will be before we are evicted from this country permanently, and what will happen if we lose the right to own condos and the right to be married to a Thai.

I say this seriously because I dont think its too far fetched that things may actually come to this eventually.

With an attitude like that why are you here in the first place? If you contribute to this society and are part of the solution not the problem you will find Thai people are very accepting including the high ranking officials who happen to be my dear friends and employers and they don't treat you any differently than anyone else. Piss one off though and... well it's the same anywhere including the USA.

That may have been somewhat true in the past, but it is not true today. Today corruption has taken hold of the country and the majority of expats are looked at through xenophobic eyes.

Growing numbers of well-meaning expats are being needlessly targeted....or it certainly seems that way to a a large number of expats who are contributing to Thai society and trying to be part of the solution.

Unfortunately, in order to get at a few bad apples, some Thais think that all of the apples should be tossed out.

What I am seeing is a culture of intolerance developing/solidifying. And that "cultural component" is combining with a culture of irresponsibility where irresponsibility is rewarded.

[webfact]

Jungian, they are not the same in the West, you piss someone of power off here and they are likely to shot you dead and they expect and probably do get away with it. The level of accountability in this country is appauling.

Agree with you and I hope you not receive comments to your post which read i.e. "if you don't like it here why don't you go back to where you belong..."...

Edited June 6, 2009 by webfact

[camerata]

As far as no one being worried about visas, you either have a very selective memory or were very lucky. We were always trying to figure out how to even get a double tourist visa and everyone was doing visa runs to Malaysia all of the time-

[...]

It is always easy to make the past seem better than it really was!

Right on, UG! And these pussies can't even imagine what it was like to get the much-reviled Tax Clearance Certificate before being allowed to leave the country, with that big sign painted on the Revenue Dept wall: "All foreigners working in Thailand MUST have a valid work permit." Difficult now? Pffft. They should have been here in the 70s and 80s.

[webfact]

As far as no one being worried about visas, you either have a very selective memory or were very lucky. We were always trying to figure out how to even get a double tourist visa and everyone was doing visa runs to Malaysia all of the time-

[...]

It is always easy to make the past seem better than it really was!

Right on, UG! And these pussies can't even imagine what it was like to get the much-reviled Tax Clearance Certificate before being allowed to leave the country, with that big sign painted on the Revenue Dept wall: "All foreigners working in Thailand MUST have a valid work permit." Difficult now? Pffft. They should have been here in the 70s and 80s.

The Tax clearance was the worst thats true but other things were much easier to achieve i.e. to get permanent residence and WP.... and it took a fracture of the time and paper work it takes these days to get it. No, I am not kidding I was asked by the Immigration if I want to have it! Slightly different from today...

Edited June 6, 2009 by webfact

[Jimjim]

People love to think there is some conspiracy in Thailand to get all the foreigners out. Sorry, it's not so. If it ever happens that they kick everyone out of the country, nobody will trade with them anymore, their economy will dive, their people wills starve and it will have only come about because a military junta will be in power and also have the attitude of the junta in Myanmar of a virtually closed country. Do you see that happening? Um, no. So, OP, rest easy and please post more crazy theories on this forum, it's good entertainment to see how people think.

[Lost in LOS]

I am not gonna say "if you dont like it leave"

but i always wonder the people that are really complaining, pretty much dont like anything here, not just some petty gripes like most of us have anywhere and the ones that say "I dont care if they throw me out" why are you still here? and more so why do you keep posting on this site?

not trashing you but really curious, if I disliked what was going on so much I would leave, really didn't like the "new" America so I left. and i am not on some American site bashing America, I left

I am here to stay and every time I am surprised at the bullshot going on here I make my yearly two week trip to the states and find its worse there, I just forget till next year

[beechguy]

Live with that - Hostility can be seen everywhere in Thai society and it was old square head who introduced it and nailed it into the brain of a lot of Thais... to every level of Thai society.

TRT and all that other ideological sh5t. The national card was played.

Thais won't change their mind (easily) if they got an opinion on something. "Tam dee dai dee, tam shua dai shua".

I know Thailand for 29y and live and work in this country since 23 years. i can see major changes in the behavior towards foreigners. Its going to be bad.

Indeed during the time of old square head Thais were "advised" to marry Thais and I remember that very well! I don't know it was Purachai or Mr. T. who gave this "advise".

/edit: wording

Totally agree..........you have most definitely had your eyes open.

What surprises me most is that the so many expats that show up on ThaiVisa can't see the simple truth of what you stated.

In fact, they seem to want the bar raised even more. Incredible! If that happens it will reach them too.

Our days are numbered unless a major change in mass psychology takes place.

What part of Thailand do you guys live? The only bad attitude I have ran into, was a Baht Bus driver and shopkeeper in Pattaya. The middle income and up that I have dealt with, haven't been a problem at all.

Fact: There is no limit on 30 day "Visa Exempt" entries by air, for numerous countries. Fact: It is easy and inexpensive to get Tourist Visas allowing stays, with extensions, for months at a time. Also, no limit on how many. Fact: Even for one year extensions of stay,(Retirement, marriage) the income requirment ranges from only 40,000-65,000 Baht per month, or 400,000-800,000 Baht in a bank.

I agree with Lost in LOS and Scorecard, and if any bars have been raised, it hasn't been by very much. Maybe it's you guys that aren't seeing the truth?

Edited June 6, 2009 by beechguy

[spysee]

Well we all know that Thailand is a bit of a mickey-mouse country with an inflated ego and most of us have learnt that the powers that be in this country despise ordinary farangs. We have come to accept that unless we are especially wealthy our presence here is mildly tolerated. Thai culture teaches the uneducated locals that they are superior to us, and the educated Thais resent us because they know in all honesty that this is not true. Perhaps they have an inferiority complex.. but one thing for sure is that in Thailand they most certainly call the shots and stick together for their own interested so in that respect when we are in Thailand we are most certainly at the bottom of the barrel.

I am wondering how long it will be before we are evicted from this country permanently, and what will happen if we lose the right to own condos and the right to be married to a Thai.

I say this seriously because I dont think its too far fetched that things may actually come to this eventually.

Well you can understand how they feel, many farangs here are old and here for the sex. Ofcourse many arent but how many old farangs do you see with a young girl?

Also every country teach patriotism to there people. Also you can not tell me that no farangs think they are superior to Thai's? Look at all the posts on here calling them all sorts.

[Pierrot]

Give us a break, be respectable and you will be respected.

And the more you talk about "HiSo" the more you make clear you belong to "LoSo", Loser Society. Why on earth will anybody welcome you ?