Thailand No Longer A Destination Of Tourists And Expats?

[drronnie]

I have heard from some expats and tourists that Thailand is not longer as much desired than before as it is over commercialized and because of political turmoil.Is Thailand losing its magic touch?

Some say that Vietnam and Cambodia are becoming the new "Lands of Smiles". Any thoughts?

[Lancelot]

Thailand has had some problems but I wouldn't count them out yet. Both VN and Cambodia still charge for visas, Thailand doesn't. Much better infastructure in Thailand. Just my 2 satang

[SoCal]

Are they backpackers?

Seriously, some will be drawn to Thailand because it is more developed, others will look for less developed places.

To each their own.

In either case, Thailand will be okay.

[SoCal]

Both VN and Cambodia still charge for visas, Thailand doesn't.

You really find that to be a big issue?

[bonobo]

Thailand will continue to draw large numbers of tourists.  But for many reasons enumerated in many previous threads here, Thailand's portion of the tourist pie will shrink as other coutries, who seem to be a better job of making things easeir for tourists and haven't suffered the same bad press as Thailand, get their share.

[TheWalkingMan]

Thailand has a very strong brand name with 12m+ visitors per year. Sure there will be the occasional dip in numbers, but I think that Thailand will always be a big draw.

[Familyonthemove]

I agree witht the OP ... from a business perspective the issues here are not huge (rules regarding land ownership, politics, traffic, strong Baht v European currencies, parasitic police force) but with property prices falling in the traditional ex-pat business areas such as Hong Kong and Singapore and with the real growth being in India, China, Africa, why would new businesses want to set up here?

Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines, India and maybe Sri Lanka, Ghana, Botswana will be the favoured destinations in the future. And China will of course be a big magnet for business.

There's also the issue of language ... which could be bigger than all the other issues for many businesses? The universal communication tool of international businesses is emails written in English. India, Malaysia, Singapore and Hong Kong have higher standards of English. Also, many international business people are only here for 2-3 years - and learning Thai is a big investment in time, especially when you consider that Thai is no use outside Thailand.

Having said all that ... it's still much better here than in the UK!

[JR Texas]

Both VN and Cambodia still charge for visas, Thailand doesn't.

You really find that to be a big issue?

SoCal forgot to mention that the "no charge for visas" is a temporary move designed to try to get back tourists. The immigration dept. was no doubt told to do this or else..........

Cambodia is the most visa and expat friendly country in the region......Lancelot forgot to mention that.

In terms of visas and expat friendliness, both Cambodia and the Philippines are better than Thailand.

Thailand will always be a destination for tourists and expats, but other countries in the region are becoming more and more desirable.

[MJP]

I have heard from some expats and tourists that Thailand is not longer as much desired than before as it is over commercialized and because of political turmoil.Is Thailand losing its magic touch?

Some say that Vietnam and Cambodia are becoming the new "Lands of Smiles". Any thoughts?

I spent a few weeks on the eastern seaboard, Koh Samet in March. I must say that no one seemed to like it. Only negative comments and lot's of "last time we come here" stuff from people who'd been coming out there for many years. These were not sex tourists either. Normal middle class holidaymakers. Germans, Turks, Brits, Danes and Dutch.

It was mainly due to the attitude of the locals and businesses towards the tourists. Also the state of the place. Very grubby.

No one cares about the political turmoil.

I suspect that European and US holidaymakers will be staying closer to home in the future anyway, due to money problems.

Don't read this as a dig at Thailand, just what people were saying to me last time I was in a destination area.

[drronnie]

Since I work in a company which deals with legal help for foreigners I know that in the last years there is always more and more hassle when it comes visas, work permits etc. As I am dependant on a work permit too as a foreigner, I see these new law changes as very taxing.

[Lancelot]

Both VN and Cambodia still charge for visas, Thailand doesn't.

You really find that to be a big issue?

SoCal forgot to mention that the "no charge for visas" is a temporary move designed to try to get back tourists. The immigration dept. was no doubt told to do this or else..........

Cambodia is the most visa and expat friendly country in the region......Lancelot forgot to mention that.

In terms of visas and expat friendliness, both Cambodia and the Philippines are better than Thailand.

Thailand will always be a destination for tourists and expats, but other countries in the region are becoming more and more desirable.

Fly in to Suwanabumi and you get 30 days visa exemption on arrival; arrive via land and you'll get 15 days-both free. Fly in to Phnom Penh and its $20 USD for a 30 day tourist visa. If you don't have correct change they will scam you for 1,000 baht; cross by land and they'll scam you for 1,200 baht.

I like Cambodia and the arrival scams don't put me off visiting there; I was simply pointing out one of the differences between the mentioned countries. I advise visiting all the countries in SE Asia and see what works best for you.

I some times complain about Thailand (attitudes, hassels...) as do others. However, we are still here; that tells you something

[polecat]

I have heard from some expats and tourists that Thailand is not longer as much desired than before as it is over commercialized

People have been saying this for years. And will continue to say it for years to come.

[JoeThePoster]

Only negative comments and lot's of "last time we come here" stuff from people who'd been coming out there for many years. These were not sex tourists either. Normal middle class holidaymakers. Germans, Turks, Brits, Danes and Dutch.

Maybe they meant last time with the wife.

Next time alone - half the price and twice the fun.

[MJP]

Only negative comments and lot's of "last time we come here" stuff from people who'd been coming out there for many years. These were not sex tourists either. Normal middle class holidaymakers. Germans, Turks, Brits, Danes and Dutch.

Maybe they meant last time with the wife.

Next time alone - half the price and twice the fun.

I suspect you are right!

Although I'd not advise it.

[JR Texas]

Both VN and Cambodia still charge for visas, Thailand doesn't.

You really find that to be a big issue?

SoCal forgot to mention that the "no charge for visas" is a temporary move designed to try to get back tourists. The immigration dept. was no doubt told to do this or else..........

Cambodia is the most visa and expat friendly country in the region......Lancelot forgot to mention that.

In terms of visas and expat friendliness, both Cambodia and the Philippines are better than Thailand.

Thailand will always be a destination for tourists and expats, but other countries in the region are becoming more and more desirable.

Fly in to Suwanabumi and you get 30 days visa exemption on arrival; arrive via land and you'll get 15 days-both free. Fly in to Phnom Penh and its $20 USD for a 30 day tourist visa. If you don't have correct change they will scam you for 1,000 baht; cross by land and they'll scam you for 1,200 baht.

I like Cambodia and the arrival scams don't put me off visiting there; I was simply pointing out one of the differences between the mentioned countries. I advise visiting all the countries in SE Asia and see what works best for you.

I some times complain about Thailand (attitudes, hassels...) as do others. However, we are still here; that tells you something

A bit of correction is in order.......again, you are correct, but the current free status is temporary and does not reflect the long term reality here.

In addition, if you want to get a tourist visa prior to entering Thailand, they may demand that you have an exit airline ticket (costly and you must show it before even getting the visa).

If I am not mistaken, I think Thailand Immigration based in Singapore is currently asking for tickets. But that raises another issue, there is no consistency in how visa rules are applied from one immigration checkpoint to another.

If you walk across the border, say from Cambodia to Thailand, you must show an exit airline ticket (this was almost never required in the past and is a big issue for travelers who don't know when they will leave Thailand).

I have been to Cambodia many times and have never been ripped off.......the process seems very smooth and the staff are always friendly. You need to make sure you have the sufficient amount in US dollars......a common sense thing to do.

Thailand is making life very difficult for people who want to stay long term on tourist visas......there was a point last year when people were concerned about how many tourists visas they were getting within a specified time period.

They may be concerned again in the near future.......again, the rules constantly change and that is one reason why other countries are looking better......more security......the rules don't change overnight.

In Cambodia it is easy to stay in the country......it is a pay to stay system (never have to leave the country). Most long-stay expats get a B visa....but it is not necessary to start a business. They want expats...........

The Philippines has a similar system making it possible to stay "forever" on a tourist visa. You only have to leave the country once per year.

In Thailand, of course, you have to leave the country to get a tourist visa, or change your visa status, etc. It is probably the worst visa system on the planet and leaves expats with no security.

[Lancelot]

A bit of correction is in order.......again, you are correct, but the current free status is temporary and does not reflect the long term reality here.

Hi JR. The Thai 30 day visa exemption on arrival is not a tourist visa but a "Visa exemption." Do you have any information/links supporting your view that the long standing 30 day on arrival (by air) is about to change?

Yes, the free 60 day Thai Tourist Visa (renewable for another 30 days=90 days total) was a temporary deal that ended (I think?) on June 4.

Cheers & Beers

[JoeThePoster]

In Thailand, of course, you have to leave the country to get a tourist visa, or change your visa status, etc. It is probably the worst visa system on the planet and leaves expats with no security.

Thailand is also that unique place where you need a work permit even after you are issued a permanent residence.

Not only is it necessary to renew the work permit annually, but you also need a re-entry visa before leaving the country on your permanent residence. All for a fee ofcourse.

Edited June 10, 2009 by JoeThePoster

[ThaiEye]

The statistics prove that Thailand has become more and more popular each year. Tourism is down this year but that is the same for every tourist country destination in the world.

A lot of the guys here are very nostalgic and may compare with how things were years back - but that can be said for long-timer tourists and expats, again everywhere, not just Thailand.

Westerners to Thailand forget to realize the amount of Asian tourists Thailand now gets - number one destination in Asia.

Thailand is as good as it's ever been, just in a different kind of way.

[JR Texas]

The statistics prove that Thailand has become more and more popular each year. Tourism is down this year but that is the same for every tourist country destination in the world.

A lot of the guys here are very nostalgic and may compare with how things were years back - but that can be said for long-timer tourists and expats, again everywhere, not just Thailand.

Westerners to Thailand forget to realize the amount of Asian tourists Thailand now gets - number one destination in Asia.

Thailand is as good as it's ever been, just in a different kind of way.

I don't have the data in front of me, but another poster on another thread (similar topic) pointed out that what you said is not quite true......Bali has shown an increase in tourism. The same is likely true for other top tourists destinations.

Tourism is down in Thailand, but this time it is really down. Tourism in Cambodia has shown a steady increase over the years, probably due to the negative situation in Thailand. It is likely down now too.

About other Asians coming here........figures are way down for Japanese and Chinese. I read in the Nation (a few weeks ago) that Chinese tourists are down 80% since last year at the same time.

This might be due to a perceived notion that Thailand is becoming unsafe. The internal instability is not helping matters......reds vs yellows vs blues vs greens vs pinks vs whatever.

This is not about nostalgia....it is about the fact that Thailand has been shooting itself in the foot with regard to tourism.....largely due to what I think is a xenophobic based visa system coupled with a we want "quality tourists" mindset (they really need to stop that as it is very offensive to many Westerners, rich and poor).

Instead of encouraging tourism, they have discouraged it with all the hoops one has to endure. And, yes, no need to repeat again the tourist visa is free now.....we know that.......we also know what has happened over the last ten years......and we know how frequently the rules change.

The free tourist visa is temporary and will be changed because immigration wants to make money off of it. I am sure they were hard pressed to implement a free tourist visa.......as soon as tourism figures start to rise again, you can bet that the freebies will go away.

The long term trend has been to make visas more difficult to obtain (by this I mean limiting options in terms of how many you can get one after another and where you can get them) and more costly.

Until something shows me otherwise, I expect that trend to continue.

The long term trend is clear with regard to retirement visas and marriage extensions: fewer options and more expensive.

Why they continue to come after married couples is a mystery to me.......that really gives them a bad reputation worldwide.

I wish immigration would start focusing on security instead of wasting time on social culling of foreigners they do not like.

"Show me your papers............your papers are not in order........."

Having said all that.......everything evolves and Thailand will no doubt evolve.

As their neighbors gain in strength because of Thailand's mistakes, there will be those within the government that will finally force positive change in terms of visa rules and business rules for foreigners.........at least I hope so.

[mrtoad]

The statistics prove that Thailand has become more and more popular each year. Tourism is down this year but that is the same for every tourist country destination in the world.

A lot of the guys here are very nostalgic and may compare with how things were years back - but that can be said for long-timer tourists and expats, again everywhere, not just Thailand.

Westerners to Thailand forget to realize the amount of Asian tourists Thailand now gets - number one destination in Asia.

Thailand is as good as it's ever been, just in a different kind of way.

You are consistent in this belief that is for certain. Certainly, people that I know who work in the tourism sector (Hotels, Agents and Health sector) and also those in the bar/resteraunt industry are not so positive. Thailand had it's "perfect storm" of <deleted> ups along with the poor global economy, it's going to be a tough year, and maybe even next. Even Asian tourist numbers are down.

[MJo]

Past 10 years or so Thailand has become more accessible and available for masses. Mainly due good economic times people had the money to travel and also due decreasing costs of air travel, better connections, less hassle etc etc.

It is only natural that it's losing it appeal in a point when it all is familiar, you have done it 6 years a row as well as all your mates have done it so you start to look elsewhere. IMO Thailand is coming just another tourist place with beaches to many europeans, not any different than the greek islands or southern spain.

Not to say this will drop tourist arrivals in long run, naturally there is still people visiting and new ones are born every minute that will be tourists to Thailand in future. But Thailand will or already has lost it edge in europe as "exotic" and fashionable destination where posh and becks enjoy their holidays it used to be few years back. Honestly i don't know where the masses head after Thailand and if i knew i would be there already setting up my tourist rip off businesses

Present economic dowturn and thai politics are more or less temporary. Once there is no news in few months in foreign media regarding any unrest it is quickly forgotten. And economy will head back up sooner or later.

And please please please do not turn this to another visa thread arguing if and when we all are thrown out. You are both right, short term tourists in a package deal Thailand is ideal with it's 30 day stamp from airport and long term expats can find easier countries to stay close by. So you are both right, please let it go

[livinthailandos]

1. Regarding Asian Tourists its been my experience that any sign or a slight whiff of political instability or see or hear anything they cancel right away. Asian are very sensitive to this issue. Also it should be noted when the tsunami hit phuket lots of asian tourists would not go there due to fear of ghost.

2. Global Tourism is down everywhere so its hard to see who is doing well and not doing well.

3. on that point though thailand in a way has screwed up so much though with lots of things from

political instablity

airport closure

massive protects

unable to solve the issue in the south

unable to protect foreign nationals

I can't seriously see thailand making any headway with anything. I see thailand as still a 3rd country even 30 years from now

The only good thing about people though its people tend to forget things over time. Thailands mistakes only show to the real world when it is constantly being broadcasted on the news from BBC, CNN, GW World ETC.

Lets not forget I thing though as long as budget airlines exist people will travel

[sabaijai]

I have heard from some expats and tourists that Thailand is not longer as much desired than before as it is over commercialized

People have been saying this for years. And will continue to say it for years to come.

True.

[Lancelot]

Past 10 years or so Thailand has become more accessible and available for masses. Mainly due good economic times people had the money to travel and also due decreasing costs of air travel, better connections, less hassle etc etc.

It is only natural that it's losing it appeal in a point when it all is familiar, you have done it 6 years a row as well as all your mates have done it so you start to look elsewhere. IMO Thailand is coming just another tourist place with beaches to many europeans, not any different than the greek islands or southern spain.

I think you put your finger on it-Thailand has become over visited and is probably feeling the strains of mass tourisim. Thailand is a name brand and some people will return and stay no matter what. Others will think "Been there; done that" and look for other destinations.

Long live free will

[sanmiguellight]

Thailand is cheaper to fly to due to mass tourism and a world class airport, and yes having to pay to fly in and out of Cambodia for whatever reason does put me off going, though i do find the people in the tourist areas to be friendlier.

[longstebe]

I've not come across many people saying there about to visit Laos,on the other hand I've not met many people saying they want to see what Pal Pot done in his time.

The majority of people on there '2 week vacation' like it at the beach. Thailand offers this in abundance.

Its a matter of time before people start flocking back.

They better had anyway coz the wife is studying tourism at the moment.

[bonobo]

I've not come across many people saying there about to visit Laos,on the other hand I've not met many people saying they want to see what Pal Pot done in his time.

The majority of people on there '2 week vacation' like it at the beach. Thailand offers this in abundance.

Its a matter of time before people start flocking back.

They better had anyway coz the wife is studying tourism at the moment.

And other nations, such as Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Philippines are developing their beach destinations. Yes, tourists will come back, but with other available options, Thailand is no longer the only game in SE Asia.  Many of the pool of tourists will choose other destinations.

[robbiecia]

There will be positive changes here in the future.

Competition is a wonderful thing.

For a long time Thailand has been the big boy on the local block.

Now some of the other nations want a bigger piece of the tourism pie.

The powers that be will eventually notice this.

I even think that immigration and some of the silly anti-foreigner laws will change for the better.

Just give it time

[HankChinasky]

I have heard from some expats and tourists that Thailand is not longer as much desired than before as it is over commercialized and because of political turmoil.Is Thailand losing its magic touch?

Some say that Vietnam and Cambodia are becoming the new "Lands of Smiles". Any thoughts?

Anybody who calls Vietnam the "land of smiles" has clearly never been to that country.

Land of agressivity and greed fits better. I only go there when I have no choice and can't send anybody else.

And all the peoples complaining about double standards and pricing for foreigners in Thailand should go check Vietnam where it's the rule and not the exception. Believe me you definitely don't feel welcome there as a foreigner.

[grandpops]

Thailand has a very strong brand name with 12m+ visitors per year. Sure there will be the occasional dip in numbers, but I think that Thailand will always be a big draw.

True true, I dont know of anybody being put off coming here. Much as I railed about the Airport closures, everybody I knew and customers I expected to come all came as normal. Some even came early thinking it would be cheaper and stayed longer.

There are many more tourists/expats around in this low season than there were in the low seasons 15 years ago.

Part of the problem is that if tourist figures are hovering around 12 million a year, Thais and falangs are building hotels, guesthouses, restrauants and bars to cater to twice that amount. Most of these businesses built on sheer hope and having no contingency for a low season that lasts 7 months at least down here.

I think there is a fair bit of tourists being spread ever thinner these days.