Mr Hippo's Day In Court

[arabic]

I would like to assure all readers of this post by Mr Hippo is 100% FACT.

How do I know, well I was at the courthouse on that Friday when the person he has mentioned got 3 months sentence to jail. I am his friend and was there to help him through the process. YES the judge gave him 6 months but then downgraded him to 3 months because he admitted the degree from Liverpool was from Khaosan Road. Mr Hippo is also correct about his age and with a baby.

My friend is out on bail for 30days as I paid 60k bail bond on the day. After sentencing this took about 2 hours to get him released, but the jail keepers under the courthouse were under instructions only to release him back the IDC. (tea money) got him released to me and he is currently out of BKK, he now has a lawyer working with him to reduce the sentence as the IDC police said he should only get 3k fine and 3k court fees. So the lawyer is actually asking for a reducement from the court. The IDC police have not indicated deportation at this time, but we are not hopeful on this as they still hold his passport in Suan Plu IDC.

The information about the list of wanted people is exactly as we saw it. Also this is fact, those on the HIT list have already had a court order for your arrest put on you, so even if you have friends in high places they can not stop the process.

I have told my friend about this forum, and I would expect him to post here in the next day or so. I will also keep you informed on any progress on his case.

I would like to thank Mr Hippo for starting this thread as a warning to all of you with a fake degree.

TB

I am the person who was arrested and bailed out of court as stated above.

Mr. Hippo has stated the truth and if anybody has any quams as regrads to Mr. Hippo's claims, then please be assured that he is 100% correct.

My warrant was issued 3 years ago. it has taken them 3 years to find me. They arrested me at home.

I am still wating to go to the court to have my sentence reduced. Will keep you posted as to the outcome of it.

Arabic.

[Scott]

Thanks and keep us posted.

[beano2274]

My warrant was issued 3 years ago. it has taken them 3 years to find me. They arrested me at home.

I am still wating to go to the court to have my sentence reduced. Will keep you posted as to the outcome of it.

A question if I may - How the hel_l has it taken them three years to find you, when you have to report to immigration every year?

Or is this the slowness of the Thai authorities again?

Hope that all goes well and the sentence is reduced, good luck on that

[aitch52]

Yes hope it works out well for both of you Good Luck and peace of mind for the future

[arabic]

My warrant was issued 3 years ago. it has taken them 3 years to find me. They arrested me at home.

I am still wating to go to the court to have my sentence reduced. Will keep you posted as to the outcome of it.

A question if I may - How the hel_l has it taken them three years to find you, when you have to report to immigration every year?

Or is this the slowness of the Thai authorities again?

Hope that all goes well and the sentence is reduced, good luck on that

I am not sure why they took this long to find me but the warrant for my arrest was issued 3 years ago. I have a temporary teaching license for the MOE. to teach for 2 years and pass the regulatory 4 exams.

Can any answer why it has taken 3 years?? I don't know.

Thanks for your comments.

[beano2274]

If it has taken them 3 years to find Mr Hippo and Arabic, then I feel that obviously both of them might have done visa runs to other countries, and when they finally did an extension here they got caught. How otherwise could the authorities not arrest them or charge them before today.

If the warrants are 3 years old, then it must be from a raid on Khao San road at the beginning of 2006, or even before.

The list might be long but maybe half have left or those on the list have done Visa runs to other countries for their Non Immigrant Visas, this is why they have not been caught yet.

[Loaded]

If it has taken them 3 years to find Mr Hippo and Arabic, then I feel that obviously both of them might have done visa runs to other countries, and when they finally did an extension here they got caught. How otherwise could the authorities not arrest them or charge them before today.

If the warrants are 3 years old, then it must be from a raid on Khao San road at the beginning of 2006, or even before.

The list might be long but maybe half have left or those on the list have done Visa runs to other countries for their Non Immigrant Visas, this is why they have not been caught yet.

I remember those fake-degree raids from a few years ago as well. If a flag had been put against someone's passport number 3 years ago, I'm sure that flag would have popped up during a renewal or extension. Even during an extension passport details are checked to discover whether there's a flag against someone. This suggests to me that this case was only opened recently because someone is trying to cause a problem for the school or the teacher and may not be directly related to those raids in 2006.

Arabic

Did you work at the same school as Mr Hippo?

Edited July 13, 2009 by Loaded

[mr_hippo]

All of my extensions since2004 have been done in Bangkok. As far as I know, Arabic and I never worked at the same school.

[beano2274]

Agree with you on some things Loaded, but the point is the arrest warrants were issued 3 years ago, this is the point I do not understand, if as Mr Hippo states he went to BKK for extensions then they should have noticed there and then, as Arabic says the warrant had a date of 2006.

Unless they issued warrants against all the users of the printing shop. If both Mr Hippo and Arabic worked for private schools then they had to give a copy of their degree to Immigration in room 101, this is where the backtracking of degrees and names has taken place.

But maybe it's just speculation

[wolfmanjack]

I am also a retired teacher who started teaching English in Thailand, decades after earning a real BA (in Christianity) from a real uni. I stood up for Mr Hippo's belated honesty and his guilty plea.

Two main points here, IMHO - fake degrees are as dishonest as the real, accredited Thai scools who encourage teachers to get fake degrees.

To be fair i would have to say that many degrees handed out by thai universities are fake. Personally I consider a degree in english held by a thai that can not properly read, write, or speak english to be a fake degree. I used to date a girl that had a degree in english and was teaching at a school in bangkok. When I met her she could barely string a sentence together and when she was checking students papers she marking stuff correct that was plainly wrong. She gave extra study sessions which i sat in on a few times and she was giving the kids the wrong answers. I corrected her a bunch of times and the head of the english department offered me a job at the government school even though i did not have a degree.

For those that believe having a degree is necessary please tell me how having a degree in math makes you a good english teacher ?

[PeaceBlondie]

Wolfman - we've debated this endlessly. Thai educators like bachelor degrees. So do educators in the West and Sierra Leone.

[ThaiBrat]

As I mentioned before “Arabic” was out on a 30day bail bond. Monday 20^th July he is back in court in BKK.

The lawyer has stated he is ready for the appeal, so I will post on Monday evening / Tuesday the result of the second court sitting.

TB

[beano2274]

ThaiBrat we all wish Arabic well.

A question though - did he work for a Government or private school? As I know Mr Hippo worked for a Private School, meaning that he had to give a copy of his "Fake Degree" to Immigration. I think the Police raided the old copy shop in Khao San Road and matched names with the documents at Immigration.

Is this the case or have you heard anything different?

[bkkdawg]

I am also a retired teacher who started teaching English in Thailand, decades after earning a real BA (in Christianity) from a real uni. I stood up for Mr Hippo's belated honesty and his guilty plea.

Two main points here, IMHO - fake degrees are as dishonest as the real, accredited Thai scools who encourage teachers to get fake degrees.

Are they trying to catch more people now that times are a bit harder, another nice little money spinner

Exactly what I was thinking.

[ThaiBrat]

As I mentioned before "Arabic" was out on a 30day bail bond. Monday 20^th July he is back in court in BKK.

The lawyer has stated he is ready for the appeal, so I will post on Monday evening / Tuesday the result of the second court sitting.

TB

Court Monday - result

Bail extension up to six months whilst the judge reviews the case. Work Permit CANCELLED.

So the it continues on and on.

[twschw]

Was his visa or extension cancelled also? If so, does he have to leave the country? What a mess.

[mbkudu]

Was his visa or extension cancelled also? If so, does he have to leave the country? What a mess.

No malicious intent or offense intended, but that's one of the stupidest questions I've ever heard. Or, maybe anything in Thailand is possible; even leaving the country on bail.

Foreigner: "Sir, I'm on bail, but my visa has expired. What should I do?"

Immigration officer: "You must leave the country, but you cannot leave. Do you understand?"

Foreigner: "Yes, it's perfectly clear now. Thank you sir."

Edited July 22, 2009 by mbkudu

[Loaded]

Was his visa or extension cancelled also? If so, does he have to leave the country? What a mess.

No malicious intent or offense intended, but that's one of the stupidest questions I've ever heard. Or, maybe anything in Thailand is possible; even leaving the country on bail.

Foreigner: "Sir, I'm on bail, but my visa has expired. What should I do?"

Immigration officer: "You must leave the country, but you cannot leave. Do you understand?"

Foreigner: "Yes, it's perfectly clear now. Thank you sir."

In any other country in the world it may seem a silly question but I think twschw has been here a while and understands how Thailand (doesn't) works.

[twschw]

No offense taken. Everyone has his or her own opinion on each post.

Edited July 23, 2009 by twschw

[beano2274]

Court Monday - result

Bail extension up to six months whilst the judge reviews the case. Work Permit CANCELLED.

So the it continues on and on.

So why is the judge reviewing the case, if they had arrest warrants for Arabic then obviously there was enough evidence. Obvioulsy each case is different, but the charges are the same.

WP cancelled means no income for his wife and child, how will they carry on, he cannot work, he cannot leave Thailand to get work somewhere else to help his family, what a mess..........

[F4UCorsair]

I suppose this whole incident can be summed up by

You play the game, you take the knocks.

It is truly an unfortunate situation for the person in question though. I bet there are no social security payments to take care of the family!!

[omlagus]

I've got a friend coming back to Thailand with his family soon. He worked here with a fake and I've warned him about this post. However, he assures me that he is bringing his original with him. If his name's on that list and his degree is different this time, then would it be possible to arrest him for having worked with a fake?

[Scott]

Of course he can be arrested. He used a fake degree.

[ThaiBrat]

I've got a friend coming back to Thailand with his family soon. He worked here with a fake and I've warned him about this post. However, he assures me that he is bringing his original with him. If his name's on that list and his degree is different this time, then would it be possible to arrest him for having worked with a fake?

From what we know and feel,

Mr Hippo and Arabic has never worked at the same schools during thier teaching career. so we it seems that the immigration police have gathered these names from outside of this network.

(1) The list has come from a Khao San road computer and they are only looking for people on that "hit" list with degrees from a few universities LIVERPOOL being one of them.

(2) It has also been mentioned that the MOE have actually got people checking all degrees held by all schools, if this is the case then the list will grow and grow as they uncover more fake degrees. This is a high possibility and maybe the way information is/has been gathered: then the names of interest passed to all border / immigration centres.

The list in Suan Plu has at least 60 names on it. whether it is growing is anyones guess at this time and if your name is on it a COURT ORDER for your ARREST has been issued already.

TB

Edited July 27, 2009 by ThaiBrat

[PeaceBlondie]

I thought Mr Hippo said he did not get his fake degree at KSR; his co-worker did. Hippo photoshopped his friend's phony degree. If so, Thai authorities put Hippo on the list, knowing his degree was faked.

[mr_hippo]

The names that they are looking at are not the degree holders but the names of the people who signed the degree. My fake was signed by three people who 'worked' at a number of different universities in different countries.

[Loaded]

(2) It has also been mentioned that the MOE have actually got people checking all degrees held by all schools, if this is the case then the list will grow and grow as they uncover more fake degrees. This is a high possibility and maybe the way information is/has been gathered: then the names of interest passed to all border / immigration centres.

A wild assumption at best.

[omlagus]

Mr

Hippo...............who signed yours? What's the signature on the fakes. Just so I can check with him.

Thanks.

[alleykat]

No mention has been made so far of fake TEFL diplomas. I wonder if they are on the list also. At a guess I would say there were more of these than fake degrees. And the charge should be exactly the same.

[Mario2008]

That would be the same indeed.

Found this on the immigration webiste about using fake documents:

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/ba...p?page=service#

Production and use of fake documents (according to criminal code sections 264, 268): Imprisonment of up to 3 years, fine of up to 6,000 baht, or both. Bail 120,000 baht cash, securities twice the amount of cash bail.

Don't know if it is up to date.