Mr Hippo's Day In Court

[Scott]

It's interesting that someone mentioned the signature line because when we had someone caught with a fake degree by the MOE, they pointed to the signature line on the degree when they announced it was a fake.

In our area, they do have a couple of officers who seem to be rather astute about finding fake degrees. They go over them thoroughly and I know that one mistake a lot of people make is that the degree is properly aligned on the paper.

[PeaceBlondie]

I am all in favor of getting a TEFL cert, but never heard the Labour/Immigration offices would ask to see one.

[Scott]

Since some officers are over-enthusiastic at checking degrees and paperwork, I always make it a point to submit the minimum amount they want and only the most relevant. If a person has a B.Ed and a MA, the B.Ed. gets submitted. I don't submit TEFL certificates to the MOE or the Labour department.

It cuts down on questions.

[beano2274]

The question is:

Who are checking the stacks of paperwork that they have, Immigration and The Ministry of Employment, or the Ministry of Education?

Mr Hippo clearly identified his fake degree at Immigration, did he use it there as part of the documentation needed to get a Visa? If yes, then maybe this is Immigration working alone.

Are the names from a list in Khao San Road?

To be honest we have only heard about 2 people on this forum, if they had a list of 60 names then surely we would have heard more from the people caught or people who know them. Also the names were in Thai, however all names on fake degrees are in English and the names in Immigration are also in English, translation of names from English to Thai can sometimes not be correct, therefore the name appearing on the warrant if in Thai, might be incorrect and then legally not binding.

[beano2274]

Also if from Khao San Road then maybe the Police and Immigration are working hand in hand, like they should do, and checking names against documents handed into Immigration, like the degrees for a Visa.

I don't think that other Government departments would actually assist the Police too much.

This is why I keep asking the question:

Did Mr Hippo and Arabic work in Private Schools? As at a Private School they have to apply for a Visa with a Degree.

Edited July 29, 2009 by beano2274

[Scott]

I am sure there is some variation in how things work from place to place. For my school, we send a photocopy of the degree, transcripts etc. to the MOE. The MOE issues a letter requesting a non-immigrant B visa to the relevant embassy/consulate. The visa is issued and the officers at the consulate have a copy with the paperwork. The original document is examined by an official with the MOL when the Work Permit is processed.

Could be any number of places that might identify a fake.

Maybe the consulates are looking at 3 degrees that are the same and think something is suspcious.

I very much doubt there is a systematic method being used. Could be wrong though.

[beano2274]

I am sure there is some variation in how things work from place to place. For my school, we send a photocopy of the degree, transcripts etc. to the MOE. The MOE issues a letter requesting a non-immigrant B visa to the relevant embassy/consulate. The visa is issued and the officers at the consulate have a copy with the paperwork. The original document is examined by an official with the MOL when the Work Permit is processed.

Could be any number of places that might identify a fake.

Maybe the consulates are looking at 3 degrees that are the same and think something is suspcious.

I very much doubt there is a systematic method being used. Could be wrong though.

For a Private school you have to supply the Immigration with a copy of your degree, same as people who want to work for a company. The MOE bit I think is for Government Schools only, but not sure.

But when I worked in a language centre I had to take the paperwork with a degree to Immigration.

Edited July 29, 2009 by beano2274

[beano2274]

Would be interesting to know where the copy of Mr Hippos or Arabic's False degrees came from:

Immigration, the Labour Office or the Ministry of Education.

Maybe they (Mr Hippo and Arabic) can shed some light onto this subject.

Edited July 29, 2009 by beano2274

[Phatcharanan]

Would be interesting to know where the copy of Mr Hippos or Arabic's False degrees came from:

Immigration, the Labour Office or the Ministry of Education.

Maybe they (Mr Hippo and Arabic) can shed some light onto this subject.

Hippo and Arabic got caught out. That's it.

Who really cares about where checks are done and which department does what?

Unless of course............there are many on here with fake degrees.

[beano2274]

Thaivisa is a forum for Foreigners to help and give assistance to others.

I think the more information we can get from both Mr Hippo and Arabic the better for those

that have used fake degrees.

I am sure that many of us know of teachers who have used fake degrees, or who are contemplating

such things, so lets try and assist those to make the right decisions, and assist those who have used

them before in knowing how they were found out and what might happen to them.

[Phatcharanan]

Thaivisa is a forum for Foreigners to help and give assistance to others.

I think the more information we can get from both Mr Hippo and Arabic the better for those

that have used fake degrees.

I am sure that many of us know of teachers who have used fake degrees, or who are contemplating

such things, so lets try and assist those to make the right decisions, and assist those who have used

them before in knowing how they were found out and what might happen to them.

Mmmmm. Fair point.

[Scott]

It's also a matter of interest to those of us who have administrative duties. Which ministry are we going to have problems with? Which ministry is going to unnecessarily start holding up paperwork?

There are a lot of hiccups in the process of getting the necessary visas and paperwork for a work permit. When all goes well, it's relatively smooth, but when they decide to make a problem, or ask a lot of questions or demand additional confirmation etc., it can cause problems and delays.

[Phatcharanan]

It's also a matter of interest to those of us who have administrative duties. Which ministry are we going to have problems with? Which ministry is going to unnecessarily start holding up paperwork?

There are a lot of hiccups in the process of getting the necessary visas and paperwork for a work permit. When all goes well, it's relatively smooth, but when they decide to make a problem, or ask a lot of questions or demand additional confirmation etc., it can cause problems and delays.

Ok ok ok ! You've convinced me !

[F4UCorsair]

Mr Hippo, they're stringing you out man. The suspense is killing me but I bet it's a lot worse for you.

Wishing you good luck won;t help, but I'll do it anyway. Their decision can't be too far off now.

[sirjimi]

Can someone please confirm if i need a degree to obtain a WP for teaching in a private school. There seem to be contrasting views on the subject in this thread and another thread i was reading. I have a job lined up in BKK but i do not have a degree. I want to do everything by the book, especially after reading this thread, but i don't want to work for 3 months only for the school to string me along.

[Scott]

It's not the law that says you have to have a degree. Some schools require a degree and some officers won't issue the work permit without a degree--'up to them' I guess. So just make sure the school knows you don't have a degree and don't use any false documents.

Best of luck.

[sirjimi]

It's not the law that says you have to have a degree. Some schools require a degree and some officers won't issue the work permit without a degree--'up to them' I guess. So just make sure the school knows you don't have a degree and don't use any false documents.

Best of luck.

Thank you for the clarification, Scott. The school already knows that i don't have a degree and did not seem the least bit concerned about it. I really hope i can get a WP. I have met a few people who are working illegally here but i do not want to fall into the same trap.

Just out of interest, can you tell me why a school wouldn't want to obtain a WP for their employees? Is it a cost management thing, a time management thing, or is there more to it? I would have thought that all schools would want to do their best efforts to obtain WP's for all of their employees in order to ensure smooth sailing down the track.

Edited August 11, 2009 by sirjimi

[Scott]

A few schools simply don't have the personnel or expertise to get a WP. Unless they hire a fair number of teacher, it can be a daunting task. Some, I would guess just can't be bothered.

As a VERY general rule, those schools which fall into the bilingual program are expected to have teachers with degrees. In the area where I work, there are regular Thai schools that employ a native speaker or two for conversation classes in English. They can get WP's for non-degreed teachers. We cannot.

Again, I am sure other areas will have different rules.

[beano2274]

Any more news about guys being caught, seems its been a long time since the last one.

Why are the police waiting for the guys to go to the Immigration office, and not catching

them at home or at their places of work?

The information about place of work and or address is registered at Immigration and The

Ministry of Labour.

[Scott]

Someone probably is now in an inactive post, or retired, or found it was not a profitable endeavor.

Maybe someone will have a more definitive answer.

[beano2274]

Well if I was on the list they would have arrested me already as I have been into the Police station at Phaya Thai, also been to Immigration 3 times for 90 day reporting. So has anyone heard anything about others or has it finished.

[Scott]

Do you have reason to worry?

[mr_hippo]

Well if I was on the list they would have arrested me already as I have been into the Police station at Phaya Thai, also been to Immigration 3 times for 90 day reporting. So has anyone heard anything about others or has it finished.

I do love your confidence! They found out about me about a month after I extended in April 2008, I do my 90 days reporting without problems and was only when I extended this year that I was arrested. At the moment, there is no link between the investigation department, the 90 day section and police stations.

[beano2274]

Well if I was on the list they would have arrested me already as I have been into the Police station at Phaya Thai, also been to Immigration 3 times for 90 day reporting. So has anyone heard anything about others or has it finished.

I do love your confidence! They found out about me about a month after I extended in April 2008, I do my 90 days reporting without problems and was only when I extended this year that I was arrested. At the moment, there is no link between the investigation department, the 90 day section and police stations.

Yes reason to worry is there, as upon arrival in Thailand I was informed that I needed my certificates, which beforehand had been destroyed by my ex wife, getting replacements took a long time, and during this time with pressure from the school to get everything sorted I did use a fake. This was due to the pressure and me just wanting to get my feet on the ground here in Thailand. Not a good excuse I know.

I have been to the Immigration department many times, my last extension was in November last year, looking at Mr Hippos time frame that they knew in April 2008, I would have thought that my name would have registered at that time.

Also if a warrant has been made for my arrest for this stupid act, then I think that it would have been flagged up to all Police Stations, as it is a warrant issued by the Court to the Police and not specifically Immigration.

[Norrad]

Yes reason to worry is there, as upon arrival in Thailand I was informed that I needed my certificates, which beforehand had been destroyed by my ex wife, getting replacements took a long time, and during this time with pressure from the school to get everything sorted I did use a fake. This was due to the pressure and me just wanting to get my feet on the ground here in Thailand. Not a good excuse I know....

If the fake was based on a degree from a university that you graduated from, then I don't think you have to worry. They can just call your university and confirm that you were a student there.

If the fake was from a university that you did not attend, then I would be very worried. This apparently is an ongoing investigation and even if your name is not on the list now, it might come up in the future.

[Scott]

I seem to have lost a post--oh, well.

We had a teacher with a real university education, but a fake degree. Fortunately his fake papers (poor copies) were spotted by MOE, but the verification came back. So he was OK. None-the-less, it was a fake paper.

[beano2274]

Knowing that there are many others out there, do you think that Immigration passed the names onto other agencies, maybe those we all use outside of Thailand

[Scott]

My guess is that this situation is a matter of more gov't agencies--immigration, MOE, etc. getting on-line and getting more savy about using computers.

I don't think they are necessarily 'going after' anyone, but they may have more access to information. A few people are more astute about identifying a fake degree.

Do they pass it on? I don't know, but I doubt it.

What agencies are you talking about?

[beano2274]

The consulates and embassies in the local area.

[sbk]

An inflammatory and baiting post has been deleted. Further such posts will result in more formal moderator action than mere deletion.