Battered Tourism Sector Seeks Urgent Government Help

[jonclark]

Yeah I have to agree with most of what has been written here - The best way I can sum the whole sorry mess up is that my family and I live in Thailand, but we holiday elsewhere. Which when i got my posting here was not something my wife and I imagined we would be doing.

Strange - you travel halfway around the world to a 'tropical paradise' but leave at every chance you get. By way of a foot note. When i was last in the UK - A local off license was selling Chang beer at $1:50 (pounds not dollars) a few months earlier my wife was charged 150 baht for the same beer (not THE same beer ) and bottle size in a bar on Koh Samet - Go figure you can buy Thai beer cheaper in the UK than you can in Thailand

Sums up the greed thing really

[jackr]

There is also the matter of anti-foreign-small-business formation and protectionism rules.........this has been taking place for decades. Had those rules not have been in place, Thailand would be more like Japan or Singapore today.......and there would be far more quality jobs for young graduates.

Thank **** it's not.

Strange - you travel halfway around the world to a 'tropical paradise' but leave at every chance you get. By way of a foot note. When i was last in the UK - A local off license was selling Chang beer at $1:50 (pounds not dollars) a few months earlier my wife was charged 150 baht for the same beer (not THE same beer ) and bottle size in a bar on Koh Samet - Go figure you can buy Thai beer cheaper in the UK than you can in Thailand

... at one place in perhaps the most expensive island (per head) in the country versus an offy in the UK. What would the difference be from a bar in Jersey compared with your average mom 'n pop store upcountry?

-

Muang Thai may not be as rosy as it was, but it sure beats most places in the world even when the people are perhaps not as smiling as they once were and prices are levelling out.

I'll take it how it is, warts n all.

[jonclark]

[.

I'll take it how it is, warts n all.

While you maybe satisfied with 'warts n all', (which i assume means the scams, over charging etc) many tourists are not. And therein lies the dilemma for they country. 'Quality tourists' expect quality in return which shopping in a mom and pop shop is not.

[kevinburke2]

anyone know if they will give free 60 day tourist visas outside the country again? I liked that

keep the taxis in island like Samui rip off the tourist as first welcome "this is Thailand" ......

not only in far forgotten island....

last month my collegue leaved Pattaya to go to Bangkok by taxi. In the middle of trip the taxidriver said that he had to stop for petrol, then my collegue took the opportunity to go to the toilette. 2 minutes and the taxidriver disappeeared with his luggage and personal belongins....

Unbeliveable what he was told from the police in Bangkok. After a 3 days complaining with the police, as my collegue had the taxi number, he was invited to the policestation. They try allway to discurage him to go on with the denunciation as they found eventually the taxidriver. Talking with the policeofficer he made the mistake to let them know that the day after he had to fly back to Europe. Then the police officer told him that he couldnt leave the country if he wanted to go on with his denunciation becouse he must be at disposal of the police for a likely invented procedure of the policeofficer...

He signed out not to go on, threatend from possible conseguences about his departure and VISA.

This remind me Nigeria 20 years ago after tribals conflict where the life of a forigner could worth $1, rather then the Land of Smile....

Rather then smile they lught at us

Edited June 18, 2009 by kevinburke2

[capco1]

My family had also planned a month long holiday in LOS....My wife is Thai and both my kids were born there. We are now changing our plans and heading across America to visit family instead. It's really a shame that Thailand has gone so far down the toilet and is now wondering what their next move should be. It's all pretty simple, read the posts before mine and there in lays the answer. I really hope that the officials will read this forum and take immediate action ( I know wishful thinking) but my family would really like to come home and visit our relatives. Maybe somebody could forward this entire thread to the appropriate officials and maybe something will be done. We planned for a very long time to buy a rai of land and one day call Thailand our home, I now doubt that it will ever come to pass......WAKE UP THAILAND before your damage is permanent! as for now you've also lost our tourist baht.

[tropo]

How does 165000 to 27000 equate to a 33.45% drop? Even if this statistic was meant to be a drop "OF" 27000, it does not add up. This is wildly wrong or else I an misinterpreting "year on year".......

Anyone?

Hmmm my math... a drop of 611%, in as 27000 goes into 165000 6.11 times....

OR... this year is 16.3 % of what the previous year was...

Airport closures, riots, global economic recession, and now H1N1.... What's next???

According to figures given, it dropped by 138,000/165,000 = 83.64% drop

I booked a hotel in Pattaya for a friend this week and the price was up 25% from October last year.

Edited June 18, 2009 by tropo

[grantbkk]

Why should the tourism business get any government help? Billions of Baht are wasted every year by TAT so they and their families vacation around the world to see how other countries are adapting to the global downturn. They get plenty of advise and I've seen some great suggestions here on Thai Visa.

Can we laugh now at the hubris of TAT wanting to attract only "quality tourist" and eliminate "those backpackers".

Raising the "sin tax" may not be working as well as the government wants. I think when a bottle of beer gets to $5US I'm getting out of here.

In reality the Thai government would rather have us just send the money and not bother to travel to the Land of Smiles. I long for the days when there were too many tourists of all stripes. Prior to APEC in October 2003 Bangkok was still a wide open city with attractions for everyone. Thaksin wanted to put on a good face for the meeting so he got rid of the soi dogs, beggars, added clothing in tourist bar areas, repainted the town and threw up some flags. Bangkok has never recovered.

Amazing Thailand - Burma With Electricty

[brahmburgers]

Amid a sharp drop in tourist arrivals to Thailand, the country’s tourism agencies were alarmed and strongly urging the government to provide urgent measures to rescue the beleaguered industry. ...Nation

So, they're losing customers and losing money, and now they want the gov't to step in shovel money in to their laps. Sounds like GM or AIG type of mentality.

Is that what gov't should do? Support businesses that are losers?

[EnhancePlus]

In all the time I have spent in Thailand, not one company has ever contacted me (apart from Bangkok Air) with any form of offer or incentive to book with them in the future.

I suggest each company involved in the tourist industry starts looking at their own marketing strategy and start directing their efforts at targeting past customers, and not rely on customers coming to them, go out and find them!.E mails cost nothing to send and nowadays most companies have a database of past customers.

ya i think the first positive post in this thread lol

constructive criticism is good if they use it.

i travel once a month to a NE city where i book one of the best suites in the best hotel. they never remember me. my wife and i eat at the restaurant of our local 5-star hotel 3x a week but my name there is still farang. people in other 3rd world countries (like Mexico) always ask my name AND REMEMBER IT. Thai people just want the money that comes with my white face. "farang" is easier to remember.

(we truly are all tourists here) even my home country of America lets people call themselves Americans after they jump through some hoops. nobody wants the farangs here to stay - and its starting to show. but i digress...

regarding tourism marketing, one thing you never see here is all-inclusive anything. you think it would be easy for Thai Air to get together with Tourism and create some affordable all-inclusive vacations.

but hey, we're thinking outside the box. that's not the Thai way lol

All the girls remember me

[pepi2005]

If there occurs any police encounter (which is likely, given the number of scams and robberies the average tourist has to face during, let's say, a month of holidays in Thailand), this is a primary reason why tourists might feel offended and will do anything else than come back to Thailand again. The average policeman (exceptions prove the role) doesn't speak English at all, many policemen are actually part of the scam schemes (like in the Khao San area, where a few years ago when I was robbed my credit card and other valuables in a so-called "VIP bus" to Malaysia by the bus staff and the Tourist-Nopolice there smiled me in my face and told me that they could do nothing, even though I could describe the company, the drivers etc. exactly), most of them are corrupt and prefer their own countrymen over foreigners (so actually there is no law applied, but the Thai criminal/offender will usually win in any given conflict -- and he knows it! Because "Thai rak Thai" ... ).

I think it's shortsighted to say that expat matters are off topic when shrinking tourist numbers are discussed. Continuously pissing off expats but pampering tourists (which doesn't happen in Thailand anyway, may I remind on the legalized quatriple pricing for foreigners in National Parks as an example ) will not really work out even if it would be intended.

A country generates a certain image, which is usually very much defined (and will be published) by people who know it well - they are the ones who will be interviewed about it, they write books, do networking via magazine articles, weblogs etc. I for example have a weblog where I keep about 100 friends and family members back home updated about my life here in Thailand. Based on my experiences published there, I doubt that many of them will come to visit me in Thailand very soon ... ... despite the fact that I came here because I love certain aspects of this country! There must be a reason why after 2-5 years, most expats turn their back on Thailand again, after coming here very enthusiastic and investing lots of money here during that time. Of course they talk to others about their experiences and reasons to move out again, as do the ones who continue their daily battles in regards of "tea money" for police, smaller and larger scams, being ripped off with fees of various kind, treated like stupid cows in Immigration offices or when trying to get work permits, like ATMs by women and tourism venues, and like dangerous aliens when trying to buy some space of living.

[richinjohannesburg]

Isnt Thailand wonderful! :-)

Edited June 18, 2009 by richinjohannesburg

[tropo]

In reality the Thai government would rather have us just send the money and not bother to travel to the Land of Smiles. I long for the days when there were too many tourists of all stripes.

It depends on your point of view. I'm quite happy with lower tourist numbers.

Perhaps being starved of tourists Thailand may actually become the "Land of smiles" again instead of taking them for granted. Perhaps they may start treating tourists with more respect.

[Geroc]

-- TNA 2009-06-17

"The causes of the sharp drop in tourist arrivals are attributed to the closure of Suvarnabhumi Airport by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) in November and December, and recent domestic political turmoil, combined with the current outbreak of the H1N1 flu," Mr. Tosaporn said.

Yes Mr Tosaporn, I've a friend tour operator in France, and I can confirm tourists are really afraid to have their holidays in the airport ! And you know, foreign countries don't understand how the leader of the PAD who blocked up the international airport is now... the prime minister.

The disrespect of the democracy bothers more than H1N1 flu.

[hhiser]

I don't think its that bad,

When my (Thai) wife wants to order a hotel room in Bangkok asking for Thai price they say 1.200 Baht after telling her name with the non-Thai surname they raise the price with 500 Baht to 1.700 so we did not go there, and so several hotels more the same story.

The Last one ( after talking with the manager ) allowed it but no breakfast included ! telling him in that case no deal he agreed for including the breakfast.

So I think it's not so bad at all or........my idea better some than no money at all, but it seems some don't understand

yesterday I opened the "the nation" webpage.

There was a Phuket hotel "1800 Baht per day price for Thais and Expats". On their webpage the regular prices were around 4500 Baht per night.

What is that??? Imagine, you book there, for 4500 Baht per night and the guy next door tells you that he paid just 1800 THB.

I would feel ripped off.

Well obviously they should not have a double standard on prices. They act like foriegners are stupid and would not know they are being charged a higher price! I also had a chuckle that they are trying to blame this on Swine Flu. They are only getting a fraction of what they deserve.

Also why is there not a special price for Thai Politicians (say 400%), maybe they could make back a small portion of what their government has stolen from them!

[fester471]

A big issue in my opinion has also been the fact that the Baht has been held artificially high , it makes whats used to be a cheap holiday from Aust, USA & Europe much more expensive & other countries in the region are cheaper just because of the exchange rate if nothing else. This doesnt just affect tourism but the whole export economy also , i am far from an expert on these things but if other currency rates around the world are depressed I cant see how the Baht is not following unless a lot of money has been pumped in by the govt to hold it up.

I agree with others also the people ie yellow shirts ,who caused a lot of the negative publicity in the first place are now the ones in power and have done little to help the situation but they are certainly not going to be interested in what farang have to say on this issue, which perhaps they should since we are the ones who's family and friends wish to visit.

[Hawkup2000]

I think things like those aggressive non metered taxi drivers outside the airport, the tour guide mafia outside Erawan shrine and Dunsit thani hotel, the tuktuk mafia in Phuket, double pricing in some places and the decline of cleanliness on some beaches are bigger factors than the changes in visa regulations. 30 days is enough for most tourists.

But the biggest reason is most likely the downturn in the economy combined with the fact the Thailand isn't dirt cheap anymore. The world is a big place and there are many places travel to. I don't see a reason for the average farang family not to pick an all inclusive hotel in Mexico instead of a stay at Kho Samui.

Edited June 18, 2009 by Hawkup2000

[Insight]

All these people complaining! If you don't like it, leave!

No, wait...

[webfact]

"The causes of the sharp drop in tourist arrivals are attributed to the closure of Suvarnabhumi Airport by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) in November and December, and recent domestic political turmoil, combined with the current outbreak of the H1N1 flu," Mr. Tosaporn said.

Yes Mr Tosaporn, I've a friend tour operator in France, and I can confirm tourists are really afraid to have their holidays in the airport ! And you know, foreign countries don't understand how the leader of the PAD who blocked up the international airport is now... the prime minister.

The disrespect of the democracy bothers more than H1N1 flu.

When did Mr. Sondhi took office as Thailands prime minister???????

Trust you are going to mix up something!

[kirkstockdale]

This whole country is going down the shitter. When i got here 4 yrs ago i was ripped of at the airport by a taxi. Ripped off at the hotel. Ripped off in the bar for my bill and then had my phone stolen by some thai coochie. I wouldn't invest a single penny in this dismal place they call the land of (FAKE) smiles. Now its me thats smiling at you thailand as your withered and worried country goes back to the stone age...hahahaha. Take away all the thais and thailand may actually be a nice place to visit.

[ThaisGood]

A big issue in my opinion has also been the fact that the Baht has been held artificially high

I'm not sure if the baht is artificially high. Thailand has a successful agricultural export industry. Unlike many countries. Thai rice prices are very high, nearly double what they were two years ago. Thai food exports are strong. Perhaps global food demand is keeping the Thai baht strong.

[StevieH]

This whole country is going down the shitter. When i got here 4 yrs ago i was ripped of at the airport by a taxi. Ripped off at the hotel. Ripped off in the bar for my bill and then had my phone stolen by some thai coochie. I wouldn't invest a single penny in this dismal place they call the land of (FAKE) smiles. Now its me thats smiling at you thailand as your withered and worried country goes back to the stone age...hahahaha. Take away all the thais and thailand may actually be a nice place to visit.

what a charmer.

[CWMcMurray]

in June alone, the number of tourist arrivals has dropped from 165,000 in the same period of 2008, to 27,000 in 2009

As today is June 17th, there is still about half a month to go before one could compare the results to June last year me thinks....

At that is how they get a drop of 33%...

First half of the month 27,000 so... full month "should be 54,000

When compared to 165,000 ... 54,000 is about 33%

[cpofc]

I have been visiting/living here for 39 years. If you took a mean of the Australian Dollar and Thai Baht over that period you would probably get a result in the low 20's. Around 22-23 Baht per dollar. During the Thai boom years of the early 90's it got as low as 15!

Problem is that the recent arrivals of the past 10 years or so have been spoilt with high exchange rates whilst Western Economies were booming. Don't forget that the arse dropped out of your lucrative pound from your own doing, it wasn't the Thais fault.

At 27 Baht to the Oz Dollar, Australian expats should think themselves bloody lucky!

The Australian Dollar reached its all time Zenith in 1974, I was doing the Far East Trour at this time and was in Japan for the big devaluation of September that year. It has never been as high again. Even in 1974 we were only getting 22 baht to the Oz Dollar!

27 Baht is a good cop and no Australian should be whinging.

[lordofdelusion]

Reading through this thread there is a common theme. Reap what you sow and the poor treatment of tourists and ex-pats adds up. Tough economic times certainly but I think it goes deeper than that. I am reminded of some investment guru on CNBC one day when asked about Thailand. He said Thailand has been an emerging market for a long time. But they can't emerge! Just keep shooting themselves in the foot. Very true. They need to join the real world.

[Jingthing]

But they can't emerge! Just keep shooting themselves in the foot.

Yes, look at the fundamentals.

The power structure, suppresses meritocracy

The education system

The corruption (world class!)

The ingrained xenophobia

Coulda, woulda, shoulda, wonta ...

Edited June 18, 2009 by Jingthing

[catmac]

Maybe some of you statisticians would like to give these Malaysian tourist figures for 1st quarter 2009 compared to 2008 the benefit of your analsis...excuse the spelling error

Nice one.....the figures for Europeans are holding up well. In fact every sector except "others" and Korea.

Could you take it that tourists are travelling but skipping out Thailand?

Nice one, indeed! I seem to remember reading in TV that tourist arrivals in Bali are rising as well. Seems that people are still travelling, just steering clear of Thailand for perfectly understandable reasons.

Nice to see that the"more-Thai-than-Thais" brigade of expats have really entered into the Thai way of thinking - if you're not prepared to put up with every scam under the Sun and every changing whim of Immigration, then just F off! Sure way to improve Thailand's image!

[IMA_FARANG]

Again, their math does not stack up, nor is there much that can be done at this late stage.

It will simply improve with the passing of time.

BR>Jack

Just want to add it would also help to treat us that have been living here for several years

and been spending Millions of Baht to support their economy not to treat us as second or 3rd

class citizens. My wife and family are lovely but really THE BOYS in BKK suck

Not to get off the topic...and not meaning you personally....but I dispute the fact that Faranags spent "millions" of Baht to "help the Thai economy". I would assert that 90% of the Farangs on this forum spend their money to help themselves first, their families second, and only incidentally do they ever even think about the Thais they "help". Boozing it up in the local girlie bar and getting laid at the cheapest price is not "helping" the Thai economy, no matter what else you call it.

Don't get me wrong, I've been in Thailand off and on for more years than many Farangs, and I support a Thai family. I don't like the way I'm treated, still a foriegner even after 20 years, but that is just the way it is.

But for the farang whose idea of Thailand is bars and hookers, please don't glorify youself by saying you "support the Thai economy" by doing that.

I've been there too.

[bungy007]

Reading through this thread there is a common theme. Reap what you sow and the poor treatment of tourists and ex-pats adds up. Tough economic times certainly but I think it goes deeper than that. I am reminded of some investment guru on CNBC one day when asked about Thailand. He said Thailand has been an emerging market for a long time. But they can't emerge! Just keep shooting themselves in the foot. Very true. They need to join the real world.

I totally agree. When I first came for hols in 1994 there were no really swanky department stores and most people were on motor bikes. Fast forward to mid 2009 and what a stark contrast. It would be a mistake to say that Thailand developed during that time frame. Sure, on the superficial level we now see most modern conveneices found in the West but that is because Thailand 'adopted' rather than developed and improved its thinking/attitudes. Now the tourists' love affair with the country seems to be on the wain and the cash cow has been slaughtered, I wonder if the Thais can go back to their simple ways of a couple of decades ago? You can now see a whole generation of Thais who are used to mobile phones/aircons/cars/fast food - will they be able to stand the shock to their systems when they have to go back to basics?

The backpackers have moved on (priced out), the expat community is very disillusioned and many are uplifting their lives and moving on/forced out by ridiculous new visa/WP laws, the middle classes don't want to risk the dangers inherent in a system controlled by the BIB mafia and are internet savvy enough to shop around for more value/less hassle destinations and even big businesses are cutting back on expenditure and seeking more 'investment friendlier' climes. Can't see any blue skies for Thais in the near future. They should count their blessings that they only have enough foresight to focus on the next meal otherwise they would really have something to worry about Som Nam Na

[loong]

Again, their math does not stack up, nor is there much that can be done at this late stage.

It will simply improve with the passing of time.

BR>Jack

Just want to add it would also help to treat us that have been living here for several years

and been spending Millions of Baht to support their economy not to treat us as second or 3rd

class citizens. My wife and family are lovely but really THE BOYS in BKK suck

Not to get off the topic...and not meaning you personally....but I dispute the fact that Faranags spent "millions" of Baht to "help the Thai economy". I would assert that 90% of the Farangs on this forum spend their money to help themselves first, their families second, and only incidentally do they ever even think about the Thais they "help". Boozing it up in the local girlie bar and getting laid at the cheapest price is not "helping" the Thai economy, no matter what else you call it.

Don't get me wrong, I've been in Thailand off and on for more years than many Farangs, and I support a Thai family. I don't like the way I'm treated, still a foriegner even after 20 years, but that is just the way it is.

But for the farang whose idea of Thailand is bars and hookers, please don't glorify youself by saying you "support the Thai economy" by doing that.

I've been there too.

Well the tourists that spend in bars, part of what they spend is collected in excise tax and VAT, so a decent contribution to the treasury. Most of them eat as well, so supporting restaurants and usually stay in hotels, so helping staff to keep their jobs and more VAT etc. If they take a girl from the bar and pay her for her services, that girl then has money to spend, keeping others in work. Also money gets sent back to their home towns/villages, so injecting money into numerous small local economies.

Whatever your moral standpoint, people who spend money in bars and on hookers are helping the economy.

How many people are supported and kept in employment just by the money that used to pour into Pattaya from these type of tourists?

[MaiChai]

Resident expats are 'long term tourists'. Whether you have an non immigrant O or B or just come in on tourist visas, its the same deal. Ok, with the non-imm you can buy a car/motorbike and get driving licenses, buy a condo, but not much improvement over a tourist visa. In effect you get a couple more rights, but do not have any citizen rights.

Thailand needs long term tourists as much as they need the short term ones. There are some pretty decent and monied folks regularly coming in on tourist visas and I cannot understand why the Thais make their lives so difficult. In effect they have forced these people to stay elsewhere and spend their money elsewhere. Hence why there is less foreigners about. I know one retired professor who alternates his time between Cambodia and Thailand just to keep legal. He would like to spend more time here but he can't, so the Thais only get his money 6 months of the year

The Thai government need to treat long term tourists better. They need to give them more rights and make their stay much easier. Otherwise folks will just stay elsewhere.

Thailand is no longer the exotic beach location it once was; I mean finding a beautiful beach or pristine tropical forest is a hard call in industrial Thailand now; as time goes on these areas become much reduced and other countries with easier visa rules, cheaper living, more friendly people and greater beauty become more attractive to the long term stayer. Only the long termers in Thailand who are stuck with family and children will not be able to move on.

Me I have two homes; one in Thailand (rented) and one in the UK. I will never give up my UK home while I don't have citizen rights in another country. This means the Thais get very little of my money now. Som nam na!!!

I keep thinking if I really get fed up, I will get a container, put everything I bought here in it (including motorbikes), and then ship everything elsewhere (Phillipines?). Then I would just need to sell the pickup

Edited June 18, 2009 by MaiChai