Battered Tourism Sector Seeks Urgent Government Help

[Jingthing]

agree, but I kind of feel like being an ex con on parole

They are cops so I suppose we are the SUSPECTS.

[philliphn]

Why is tourism down inThailand?

1. The world wide recession.

2. You must be able to rely on the airport being open when your vacation is over and you must return to work. You can't risk your job.

3. Flu Scare.

4. Lack of polite service from Thais. The resentment and jealousy many Thai people feel towards their guests. The Thai arrogance.

5. The double and up pricing and scams by Thais directed at thier guests.

6. Police corruption. Scams to exploit their guests by Thai officials. The BIB should recieve training regarding profesionalism. If you are a tourist and are scamed by a Police Officer you will never forget that!

7. The lack of fair justice in any dispute involving a Thai and a "Farang". Thais would be out raged if they were treated in the way they treat their guests.

8. The over priced value of the Thai Baht.

Expats though not tourists contribute to the Thai economy. They are long term guests. They almost always contribute more to the Thai economy than tourists. They bring their life long earnings and spend it in the Thai economy. They support famalies and children. They help their extended Thai famalies very often. However, they are not treated in a fair way. We all know that in the USA Thais can own property like any one else. Thais are not subjected to the type of unfair pricing in the USA just because they are Thai. I think that many expats have left, are thinking of leaving, or are in the Process of leaving Thailand. When expats do this the bussineses that they support loose good customers. If Thailand wants to grow then they need to look at what is needed to attract retirees, who have the currently required funds to spend, and in this way contribute to the Thai economy. Make things easier for these people. Make them feel welcome. Allow them at least to have a 50 year lease on a house and 1 Rai of land. Let their wives and Thai children if they have them inherit this assett. Give them the same fair justice(?) that a Thai person would have. Not just the mantra of "you farang you pay."

I understand that Thai land is the land of the Thais. But their should be international standards of fairness and justice for all. If Thailand is seen as a land of unfairness most will hesitate to invest in Thailand. This cannot be in Thailands best interest.

Don't get me wrong I love Thailand in many ways. I want to see a better friendlier, more educated, democratic Thailand. Long live the current King!!!

I don't by any means claim that the USA is perfect in every way. I know very well that it is not. But you will never hear any one say you are Thai you pay more. You are Thai you pay.

[loong]

Beechguy.........Yes, I'm quite capable of reading your post.

I asked if you know of exceptions, to make the point, that travel procedures are reasonably similar between countries. You and others seem to infer that the Thai regulations are too confusing. If that's true, then other country's regulations must be equally confusing. I give people credit for asking questions, because they are at least making an effort to understand the situation. But there are other places to get accurate, current information, besides possibly outdated websites. I recommend contacting their nearest consulate to start, and then do more research.

As for the the second part, yes, as a matter of fact, other countries do amend their regulations on a regular basis. It's just one doesn't see anybody complaining about it here. One situation I just ran across was a few years ago, when Indonesia did away with "visa exempt" entries and requires a visa to enter for many nationalities. Just one example of how Thailand isn't the only country that issues more strict requirements sometimes.

The bottom line is, if people want to come here, it isn't that difficult, and certainly no more so, than some of the surrounding countries. If they are confused, it's easy enough to get the necessary information.

Ok you are absolutely right. The Visa section of this forum does not have post after post from people who have no idea what visa to get, how long they can extend, etc etc.

You and I understand the rules, so they are very simple for everyone to comprehend.

Indonesia may have changed a rule some years ago, so that makes it ok for the many amendments to the Thai rules that have happened over the last few years.

"The bottom line is, if people want to come here, it isn't that difficult, ......"

For various reasons, fewer people do actually want to come here. Note the title of this topic. The overcomplicated and confusing visa rules are not the sole reason for the decline in tourism, but certainly are a factor.

You and a few others see absolutely nothing wrong with the rules, but it is obvious from many other people's posts that they see things differently.

[RobertPattaya]

Let me tell you about my night out last night in Pattaya, for all that want to know. I’VE LIVED HERE 3.5 YEARS AND I CAN TELL YOU ALL, IT’S GETTING VERY DANGERIOUS HERE.

I went out about 10:30 PM Sunday June 21st, my usual, get something to eat (kabob Gai corner Pattaya Dtai (S. Pattaya) and 3rd road, then ride down Soi 7 & 8 to look at the girls. I went with a girl at Jenny Star bar about a month ago, very nice girl. She always tries to stop me and get me to take her again. When I stopped I felt sorry for some twisted lady boy that works at the bar with her so I included her in the conversation and somehow I ended up in almost in a physical confrontation with her in about two minutes. It was outright aggression, I speak Thai fairly well so there was no language misunderstanding. Thankfully my girl got me out of it by blocking my assailant and shooing me along the Soi (thank god I was on my motorbike which assured a quick exit).

Then I pulled up behind Walking Street on Soi 14 were parking is free and some girls at a bar next to where I parked tried to get me to pay the 20 baht to park there. I said I’ve been parking here for three years and I know it’s free. They seemed not to care and we started talking. When I told them I was going to Happy (a go go bar) they got angry and started shouting kee neow at me (that means your tight with your money one of the most awful things you can be called in Thai culture). So I got on my bike and moved some ware else (as they will damage your bike if they don’t like you).

Then I met some friends and went to Happy and Living Dolls, no problems. Then my friends went home and I went for a walk down Walking Street about 2:00 AM. I met some girls on Walking Street and started talking to them when another lady boy came up to me and as usual started forcing herself on me. This one seemed like a nice person so I talked to her out of friendship only, (not trying to be rude) Just to let EVERYONE know I would and could never go with a lady boy, if you live here you know what I mean they are every ware and you are forced to deal with them. After about 5 minutes I tried to leave and she went ballistic! (Because I wouldn’t go with her) She punched me hard in the chest and scratched me across the chest drawing blood. (in case you don’t believe me attached is a picture of my blood stained shirt) (**Sorry I can't figure out how to attach the file**) I know it’s a losing battle to fight with a Thai as they will just gang up on you and beat you into a hospital bed, so I just ran away as fast as I could down Walking Street and down Soi 14 to my motorbike on 3rd road. She stopped chasing me so I was free at which time I walked to my motorbike and drove home.

The police have been arresting the lady boys and the girls on the beach almost every other night, 100 or more people at a time. They are trying to change the beach into a more “Family Destination”. This is causing those people to move into the mainstream areas of Walking Street and Soi 7 & 8. There are no tourists here at all compared to the last three years and it causing desperation. These people are, I believe facing increasing problems just being able to put food in their bellies and are now being flushed into the mainstream areas where we are being forced to deal with them. It is getting DANGURIOUS in Pattaya.

Don’t were any jewelry or carry a handbag here it is DANGEROUS. If you’re riding a motorbike they come up behind you and rip it off your neck or out of your arm. It can through you off balance and you can really get hurt. These people are getting desperate and I don’t think it’s going to get better anytime soon.

Don’t count on the Police to help you (they are paid virtually nothing and it seems they consider it their right to shake down anyone from another country as an perk considered acceptable with their job) they are almost always going to try to shake you down especially if it’s late at night. You are better off on your own, just deal with it and try to get out of it before the Police come or it will cost you 3 times as much.

When I got home I realized I had my pocket picked of all my money about $2,000 baht. This is getting to be a problem for me here its happened now three times in the last six months, it’s never happened to me any where else but Walking Street. he first time I lost a 10,000 baht phone. It’s always Lady Boys and their really good at it so be careful when they approach you. Usually they approach you two or three at a time on Walking Street, one will come up and try to distract you while they are all grabbing you asking to to take them home. I thought after 3.5 years I knew the game here, I was wrong!

I thought I was going to stay the rest of my life here. I’ve booked a flight back to the USA for August 1st. I am thinking about relocating to the Philippines, I have many friends that moved there and Cambodia as well. I have another month and a half to see if this was just an unlucky night. I hope it was.

If you want to come here keep your guard up, big time!

R…..

[beechguy]

Beechguy.........Yes, I'm quite capable of reading your post.

I asked if you know of exceptions, to make the point, that travel procedures are reasonably similar between countries. You and others seem to infer that the Thai regulations are too confusing. If that's true, then other country's regulations must be equally confusing. I give people credit for asking questions, because they are at least making an effort to understand the situation. But there are other places to get accurate, current information, besides possibly outdated websites. I recommend contacting their nearest consulate to start, and then do more research.

As for the the second part, yes, as a matter of fact, other countries do amend their regulations on a regular basis. It's just one doesn't see anybody complaining about it here. One situation I just ran across was a few years ago, when Indonesia did away with "visa exempt" entries and requires a visa to enter for many nationalities. Just one example of how Thailand isn't the only country that issues more strict requirements sometimes.

The bottom line is, if people want to come here, it isn't that difficult, and certainly no more so, than some of the surrounding countries. If they are confused, it's easy enough to get the necessary information.

Ok you are absolutely right. The Visa section of this forum does not have post after post from people who have no idea what visa to get, how long they can extend, etc etc.

You and I understand the rules, so they are very simple for everyone to comprehend.

Indonesia may have changed a rule some years ago, so that makes it ok for the many amendments to the Thai rules that have happened over the last few years.

"The bottom line is, if people want to come here, it isn't that difficult, ......"

For various reasons, fewer people do actually want to come here. Note the title of this topic. The overcomplicated and confusing visa rules are not the sole reason for the decline in tourism, but certainly are a factor.

You and a few others see absolutely nothing wrong with the rules, but it is obvious from many other people's posts that they see things differently.

It's not a perfect system, but it apparently it worked well enough for millions of entries the past few years. Current, accurate information is out there, (Consulates, Embassies, airlines, travel agents) if a tourist can't figure out how to get here, that's their problem. I've never been in a country or region that didn't experience changes, ask people that work in the middle east/Persian Gulf areas for example.

The fact is, if one would bother to check the facts, is that many countries have similar requirements(funds, flight tickets, etc)to Thailand. It's not the most liberal, but not the most restrictive. If people don't want to come, and I don't blame them, they won't, no matter what you do to the regulations. It doesn't get any easier than completing the arrival card, and stepping off the plane.

Edited June 21, 2009 by beechguy

[bungy007]

Let me tell you about my night out last night in Pattaya, for all that want to know. I'VE LIVED HERE 3.5 YEARS AND I CAN TELL YOU ALL, IT'S GETTING VERY DANGERIOUS HERE.

I went out about 10:30 PM Sunday June 21st, my usual, get something to eat (kabob Gai corner Pattaya Dtai (S. Pattaya) and 3rd road, then ride down Soi 7 & 8 to look at the girls. I went with a girl at Jenny Star bar about a month ago, very nice girl. She always tries to stop me and get me to take her again. When I stopped I felt sorry for some twisted lady boy that works at the bar with her so I included her in the conversation and somehow I ended up in almost in a physical confrontation with her in about two minutes. It was outright aggression, I speak Thai fairly well so there was no language misunderstanding. Thankfully my girl got me out of it by blocking my assailant and shooing me along the Soi (thank god I was on my motorbike which assured a quick exit).

Then I pulled up behind Walking Street on Soi 14 were parking is free and some girls at a bar next to where I parked tried to get me to pay the 20 baht to park there. I said I've been parking here for three years and I know it's free. They seemed not to care and we started talking. When I told them I was going to Happy (a go go bar) they got angry and started shouting kee neow at me (that means your tight with your money one of the most awful things you can be called in Thai culture). So I got on my bike and moved some ware else (as they will damage your bike if they don't like you).

Then I met some friends and went to Happy and Living Dolls, no problems. Then my friends went home and I went for a walk down Walking Street about 2:00 AM. I met some girls on Walking Street and started talking to them when another lady boy came up to me and as usual started forcing herself on me. This one seemed like a nice person so I talked to her out of friendship only, (not trying to be rude) Just to let EVERYONE know I would and could never go with a lady boy, if you live here you know what I mean they are every ware and you are forced to deal with them. After about 5 minutes I tried to leave and she went ballistic! (Because I wouldn't go with her) She punched me hard in the chest and scratched me across the chest drawing blood. (in case you don't believe me attached is a picture of my blood stained shirt) (**Sorry I can't figure out how to attach the file**) I know it's a losing battle to fight with a Thai as they will just gang up on you and beat you into a hospital bed, so I just ran away as fast as I could down Walking Street and down Soi 14 to my motorbike on 3rd road. She stopped chasing me so I was free at which time I walked to my motorbike and drove home.

The police have been arresting the lady boys and the girls on the beach almost every other night, 100 or more people at a time. They are trying to change the beach into a more "Family Destination". This is causing those people to move into the mainstream areas of Walking Street and Soi 7 & 8. There are no tourists here at all compared to the last three years and it causing desperation. These people are, I believe facing increasing problems just being able to put food in their bellies and are now being flushed into the mainstream areas where we are being forced to deal with them. It is getting DANGURIOUS in Pattaya.

Don't were any jewelry or carry a handbag here it is DANGEROUS. If you're riding a motorbike they come up behind you and rip it off your neck or out of your arm. It can through you off balance and you can really get hurt. These people are getting desperate and I don't think it's going to get better anytime soon.

Don't count on the Police to help you (they are paid virtually nothing and it seems they consider it their right to shake down anyone from another country as an perk considered acceptable with their job) they are almost always going to try to shake you down especially if it's late at night. You are better off on your own, just deal with it and try to get out of it before the Police come or it will cost you 3 times as much.

When I got home I realized I had my pocket picked of all my money about $2,000 baht. This is getting to be a problem for me here its happened now three times in the last six months, it's never happened to me any where else but Walking Street. he first time I lost a 10,000 baht phone. It's always Lady Boys and their really good at it so be careful when they approach you. Usually they approach you two or three at a time on Walking Street, one will come up and try to distract you while they are all grabbing you asking to to take them home. I thought after 3.5 years I knew the game here, I was wrong!

I thought I was going to stay the rest of my life here. I've booked a flight back to the USA for August 1st. I am thinking about relocating to the Philippines, I have many friends that moved there and Cambodia as well. I have another month and a half to see if this was just an unlucky night. I hope it was.

If you want to come here keep your guard up, big time!

R…..

I think that this is a fair point. Since the days of the Vietnam War, Hippy Trail and Lonley Planet, Thailand has seen a Tsunami of cash wash across its shores. Thai people have begun to take this for granted and almost consider it a god given right. However, since the power of the internet has given consumers more knowledge about travel destinations and the pros/cons of those places we all now have considerable options. Good for us but not so good for the rip-off merchants, scammers, BIB mafia et al.

Given the strength of convictions on why Thailand's tourism business is in the toilet, I see more and more following suit and making for safer shores. As a consequence, Thailand's main tourist hubs are in serious trouble and perhaps it will only take another 'high season?' like the last one with its political turmoil, hostage situations, street rioting, constant alchohol bans on high days and holidays to seal its fate, so to speak. It may well get a lot, lot more dangerous for both tourists/expats and Thais as Thai people dependant on tourism get a lot, lot more desparate.

Edited June 21, 2009 by bungy007

[andyc2006]

Eventually she realized and said, "we're not going to see any waterfalls, are we?" Nope -- all the Thai waterfalls are just inside the entrances to national parks -- "som nam na" for being Thai and thinking that it's ok to price like this.

i feel sorry for your wife.

u think u made an impact with your little revolt

on the 10-20 baht an hour ticket stand workers?

the only one u affected was your wife

who spent 4 days in a car with you hoping

to see some waterfalls.

dont think of farang price

as a price hike for the farangs.

its a discount for the poor Thais

who would like to see the wonders

of their country.

No need to feel sorry for my wife. She doesn't know it yet (and hopefully won't until I'm dead), but she's the wealthiest Thai she's ever met -- maybe that you've ever met.

We also had quite a lovely vacation, visiting fruit fields (we both love to do that) and relaxing on Kho Chang, so I'm not worried about missing some waterfalls. She's seen bigger and better ones in Yosemite and throughout the rest of California.

What have I changed? I don't know. Maybe nothing. I know that I made an impact with my wife and the 5 or 6 people she's called to explain it to. And when 1/2 those national-park employees are unemployed, maybe they'll reflect on it too. You can't change anybody, but you can get some people to think about things. My wife has since concluded that double-pricing is wrong. For whatever reason ;-)

As far as how to think of it -- you don't need to tell me how to think of it. You have your way, I have mine.

But with my money, I make my rules.

And here's my way to think of it -- but I wouldn't dare tell you that it should be your way too...

When I enter national parks, I behave as I was taught as a child: take only pictures, leave only footprints.

When I enter a Thai national park, many of my footsteps need to dodge broken glass left by the Thais, and I need to aim my camera in ways to avoid the heaps of garbage left by vacationing Thais.

For that, I'm expected to pay 5 times more than the Thais pay. No thanks. I will no longer support that system, though I admit to having done so in the past.

In my country, my wife is treated equally as a human, and has a clear, legal path to equality as a citizen or permanent resident. For me, in Thailand... well, we all know that story.

It's funny reading all these TV threads, with one group of people pointing out the quite legitimate issues with Thailand, and another group responding (also quite legitimately) that it's their country, their rules, leave if you don't like it. I find myself agreeing with both sides. Which is why I'm about 80% certain I'll be leaving when my lease expires. That'll make 2 years in Thailand, and I just don't see myself having the tolerance that some of you long-term expats have.

I'd suggest that you direct your sympathy to all other Thai people instead of my wife, but frankly, they deserve what they're going to get, and also, I wouldn't presume to tell you how to think of things. So instead, feel welcome to continue feeling sorry for my wife. But do it with the realization that she's one of the most fortunate Thai people alive.

[loong]

It's not a perfect system, but it apparently it worked well enough for millions of entries the past few years. Current, accurate information is out there, (Consulates, Embassies, airlines, travel agents) if a tourist can't figure out how to get here, that's their problem.

I'm so glad that you cleared that up.

" if a tourist can't figure out how to get here, that's their problem."

Now the TAT have all the answers. the lower tourist numbers are not a problem for Thailand, it's a problem for the tourists that no longer come here.

You and the TAT and the government won't accept that the rule changes and amendments have put off some people coming here. You just stubbornly stick to your opinion no matter what. I know for a FACT that some people are now in Cambodia instead of Thailand because they're fed up with not knowing what amendments they will make to the rules next month.

I agree with you that the rules are not too difficult to understand, but I can see that other people are confused. Why can't you accept that?

Incidently, I do check the immigration websites occasionally and when they do amend the rules, there is often no mention of the changes. I find out about the rule changes by reading the Visa forum.

Example from the Thailand Ministry of Foreign Affairs......You are required to have an air ticket out of Thailand (fully paid) to enter Thailand with a Tourist Visa.....You can only stay in Thailand for a total of 90 days in a 6 month period using Visa Exempt entries.......Tourist and other visas can be extended at Bangkok, Soi Suan Plu, it doesn't mention that extensions can be granted at any immigration office. Visa exempt entry at land border - 15 days, no mention that there is a maximum of 4 consecutive entries.

[andyc2006]

I went with a girl at Jenny Star bar about a month ago, very nice girl.

Just to let EVERYONE know I would and could never go with a lady boy,

If you don't realize that those statements are mutually exclusive, you might want to re-calibrate your beer goggles, or ask yourself why so many ladyboys seem to target you, or maybe just google "jenny star bar pattaya" and do a little research. Here, I'll help:

http://www.google.co.th/search?rlz=1C1GGLS...tar+bar+pattaya

Just to let EVERYONE know I would and could never intentionally, knowingly go with a lady boy,

There, I fixed it for you.

It is getting DANGURIOUS in Pattaya.

If you want to come here keep your guard up, big time!

You bring up good points, though, they're not limited to Thailand. Crime and economic conditions are inherently correlated. Since I'm one of those doom-and-gloomers who thinks the world economy is going to continue to tank for a couple more years, I also suspect that crime will increase too -- everywhere. Be careful everybody.

[andyc2006]

again, all of these things are specific to people who live here. they are not the things which are putting off the farang who want a fortnight on the beach.

To StevieH and all the others who make the same point -- yes, you're correct, expats and tourists have different concerns.

Yes, no tourist cares that we have awful cable selection and slow Internet, nor that we spouses of Thais need to do jump through silly visa hoops to remain here and support our Thai families.

Just as no expat cares about taxi scams at the airports, or the "Grand Palace is closed today, let me drive you elsewhere" tuk-tuk scam.

BUT...

many concerns overlap (such as double-pricing), and it's not as if expats don't contribute to the Thai economy (I suspect that per person, per annum, they contribute more than tourists).

AND...

most expats also are tourists, at times. For example, I reside in Bangkok and don't spend as a tourist here, but become a tourist when I go to other parts of Thailand, which I do frequently.

Conceding that your point is accurate, I still wonder, what's your point?

The expat laundry list of Thai issues contains many items that apply to tourists too, and the other items on the list also result in driving (expat) money out of Thailand.

At best, your point argues that some items on the list of expat concerns is off-topic... for this multi-hundred post thread. But... so what?

Edited June 21, 2009 by ajc1970

[brahmburgers]

Let me tell you about my night out last night in Pattaya, for all that want to know. I’VE LIVED HERE 3.5 YEARS AND I CAN TELL YOU ALL, IT’S GETTING VERY DANGERIOUS HERE.

I went out about 10:30 PM Sunday June 21st, my usual, get something to eat (kabob Gai corner Pattaya Dtai (S. Pattaya) and 3rd road, then ride down Soi 7 & 8 to look at the girls. I went with a girl at Jenny Star bar about a month ago, very nice girl. She always tries to stop me and get me to take her again. When I stopped I felt sorry for some twisted lady boy that works at the bar with her so I included her in the conversation and somehow I ended up in almost in a physical confrontation with her in about two minutes. It was outright aggression, I speak Thai fairly well so there was no language misunderstanding. Thankfully my girl got me out of it by blocking my assailant and shooing me along the Soi (thank god I was on my motorbike which assured a quick exit).

Then I pulled up behind Walking Street on Soi 14 were parking is free and some girls at a bar next to where I parked tried to get me to pay the 20 baht to park there. I said I’ve been parking here for three years and I know it’s free. They seemed not to care and we started talking. When I told them I was going to Happy (a go go bar) they got angry and started shouting kee neow at me (that means your tight with your money one of the most awful things you can be called in Thai culture). So I got on my bike and moved some ware else (as they will damage your bike if they don’t like you).

Then I met some friends and went to Happy and Living Dolls, no problems. Then my friends went home and I went for a walk down Walking Street about 2:00 AM. I met some girls on Walking Street and started talking to them when another lady boy came up to me and as usual started forcing herself on me. This one seemed like a nice person so I talked to her out of friendship only, (not trying to be rude) Just to let EVERYONE know I would and could never go with a lady boy, if you live here you know what I mean they are every ware and you are forced to deal with them. After about 5 minutes I tried to leave and she went ballistic! (Because I wouldn’t go with her) She punched me hard in the chest and scratched me across the chest drawing blood. (in case you don’t believe me attached is a picture of my blood stained shirt) (**Sorry I can't figure out how to attach the file**) I know it’s a losing battle to fight with a Thai as they will just gang up on you and beat you into a hospital bed, so I just ran away as fast as I could down Walking Street and down Soi 14 to my motorbike on 3rd road. She stopped chasing me so I was free at which time I walked to my motorbike and drove home.

The police have been arresting the lady boys and the girls on the beach almost every other night, 100 or more people at a time. They are trying to change the beach into a more “Family Destination”. This is causing those people to move into the mainstream areas of Walking Street and Soi 7 & 8. There are no tourists here at all compared to the last three years and it causing desperation. These people are, I believe facing increasing problems just being able to put food in their bellies and are now being flushed into the mainstream areas where we are being forced to deal with them. It is getting DANGURIOUS in Pattaya.

Don’t were any jewelry or carry a handbag here it is DANGEROUS. If you’re riding a motorbike they come up behind you and rip it off your neck or out of your arm. It can through you off balance and you can really get hurt. These people are getting desperate and I don’t think it’s going to get better anytime soon.

Don’t count on the Police to help you (they are paid virtually nothing and it seems they consider it their right to shake down anyone from another country as an perk considered acceptable with their job) they are almost always going to try to shake you down especially if it’s late at night. You are better off on your own, just deal with it and try to get out of it before the Police come or it will cost you 3 times as much.

When I got home I realized I had my pocket picked of all my money about $2,000 baht. This is getting to be a problem for me here its happened now three times in the last six months, it’s never happened to me any where else but Walking Street. he first time I lost a 10,000 baht phone. It’s always Lady Boys and their really good at it so be careful when they approach you. Usually they approach you two or three at a time on Walking Street, one will come up and try to distract you while they are all grabbing you asking to to take them home. I thought after 3.5 years I knew the game here, I was wrong!

I thought I was going to stay the rest of my life here. I’ve booked a flight back to the USA for August 1st. I am thinking about relocating to the Philippines, I have many friends that moved there and Cambodia as well. I have another month and a half to see if this was just an unlucky night. I hope it was.

If you want to come here keep your guard up, big time!

R…..

sobering story, thanks. I'll give Pattaya a miss, next time I plan to get randy and footloose.

You're nicer than I am - in regard to ladyboys in such venues. I don't even want them near me. If they get too close, I move away. I don't even pretend to fraternize (sororitize?) with them. Some of them are mean as soi dogs.

[beechguy]

It's not a perfect system, but it apparently it worked well enough for millions of entries the past few years. Current, accurate information is out there, (Consulates, Embassies, airlines, travel agents) if a tourist can't figure out how to get here, that's their problem.

I'm so glad that you cleared that up.

" if a tourist can't figure out how to get here, that's their problem."

Now the TAT have all the answers. the lower tourist numbers are not a problem for Thailand, it's a problem for the tourists that no longer come here.

You and the TAT and the government won't accept that the rule changes and amendments have put off some people coming here. You just stubbornly stick to your opinion no matter what. I know for a FACT that some people are now in Cambodia instead of Thailand because they're fed up with not knowing what amendments they will make to the rules next month.

I agree with you that the rules are not too difficult to understand, but I can see that other people are confused. Why can't you accept that?

Incidently, I do check the immigration websites occasionally and when they do amend the rules, there is often no mention of the changes. I find out about the rule changes by reading the Visa forum.

Example from the Thailand Ministry of Foreign Affairs......You are required to have an air ticket out of Thailand (fully paid) to enter Thailand with a Tourist Visa.....You can only stay in Thailand for a total of 90 days in a 6 month period using Visa Exempt entries.......Tourist and other visas can be extended at Bangkok, Soi Suan Plu, it doesn't mention that extensions can be granted at any immigration office. Visa exempt entry at land border - 15 days, no mention that there is a maximum of 4 consecutive entries.

It's only a problem for people whining and moaning, and can't be bothered with the facts. Even with the 90 days in six months limit, it was clearly specified, that it only applied to visa exempt entries. If that wasn't enough time, tourist visas were and still are, easily available.

Apparently, it wasn't too difficult for the millions of successful entries that have occured the past few years.

[SurfRider]

"still no decent taxis available in Pattaya"

After 40+ years of running people around town in the back of filthy pick-up trucks without shock-absorbers, the local baht-bus mafia has finally attempted an experiment and are offering a few "Bangkok Style" Taxis.

However, they're hard to find and the driver won't use the meter if you happen to find one.

I had to go on a brief two mile jaunt recently -- a motor-bike taxi would be 60 Baht, but none were immediately available.

A Pattaya Taxi came along and offered to take me there for 400 Baht!

I pointed out that I could go on a two-hour trip, 90 miles to Bangkok, in a same-same Taxi for only 800 Baht, and he said "OK, 300 Baht"

Needless to say, I waited a few minutes for the motor bike [ TiT ]

.

[RobertPattaya]

I went with a girl at Jenny Star bar about a month ago, very nice girl.

Just to let EVERYONE know I would and could never go with a lady boy,

If you don't realize that those statements are mutually exclusive, you might want to re-calibrate your beer goggles, or ask yourself why so many ladyboys seem to target you, or maybe just google "jenny star bar pattaya" and do a little research. Here, I'll help:

http://www.google.co.th/search?rlz=1C1GGLS...tar+bar+pattaya

Just to let EVERYONE know I would and could never intentionally, knowingly go with a lady boy,

There, I fixed it for you.

It is getting DANGURIOUS in Pattaya.

If you want to come here keep your guard up, big time!

You bring up good points, though, they're not limited to Thailand. Crime and economic conditions are inherently correlated. Since I'm one of those doom-and-gloomers who thinks the world economy is going to continue to tank for a couple more years, I also suspect that crime will increase too -- everywhere. Be careful everybody.

Yes that's good "intentionally" thanks for the correction! I met this girl in Marine Disco I have never been to that bar. Jenny Star is 50/50 Lady Boys and Girls, its right on Soi 7 so when you drive down the Soi all the girls sit in front of the bar, she sees me and stops me every time to talk. I'm just being friendly to a person I know.

I don't know if you live here or not but its almost impossible to walk up and down Soi 6,7,8, Walking Street, or the Beach without encountering a lot of Lady Boys. They have always been a problem here most hotels won't allow them in, their very volatile people. What I'm seeing is a already bad situation getting worse. Desperate people do desperate things, I've never seen it this dead here before, there is not a lot out there for them here right now. I believe as you do its going to get a lot worse worldwide before it gets better and that its most likely happening in other places too.

If your out late here be careful its much more dangerous better to start a little earlier and go home early. If your around any Lady Boys be extra cautious.

R...

[loong]

Incidently, I do check the immigration websites occasionally and when they do amend the rules, there is often no mention of the changes. I find out about the rule changes by reading the Visa forum.

Example from the Thailand Ministry of Foreign Affairs......You are required to have an air ticket out of Thailand (fully paid) to enter Thailand with a Tourist Visa.....You can only stay in Thailand for a total of 90 days in a 6 month period using Visa Exempt entries.......Tourist and other visas can be extended at Bangkok, Soi Suan Plu, it doesn't mention that extensions can be granted at any immigration office. Visa exempt entry at land border - 15 days, no mention that there is a maximum of 4 consecutive entries.

It's only a problem for people whining and moaning, and can't be bothered with the facts. Even with the 90 days in six months limit, it was clearly specified, that it only applied to visa exempt entries. If that wasn't enough time, tourist visas were and still are, easily available.

Apparently, it wasn't too difficult for the millions of successful entries that have occured the past few years.

"can't be bothered with the facts"

Is this your favourite phrase? It's very strange coming from someone who is totally uninterested in facts that don't support his own arrogant opinion.

You say that people can do research and find out the FACTS about the entry requirements to Thailand. The FACTS are that the official government websites are NOT kept up to date and do NOT have all the correct information. I have pointed this out to you and PROVED IT AS FACT, citing examples.

THE FACTs are that many people are confused by the regulations and regular amendments. The FACT is that there are many people who post questions in the Visa section, why do they post these questions? Because of the FACT that they don't understand the requirements.

I also note that you in FACT seem to think that you have the right to tell people that 90 days is plenty of time for a tour and somehow this FACT justifies the government website giving inaccurate information.

I'm sure that you will follow this with another of your pathetic self opinionated posts totally unsupported by any real FACTS to dispute what I have said. Go ahead, but I will not waste my time to respond to any more of your moronic posts that you just keep repeating the same old Krap. I guess in your infantile mind you will be happy to have the last word.

[RobertPattaya]

Let me tell you about my night out last night in Pattaya, for all that want to know. I’VE LIVED HERE 3.5 YEARS AND I CAN TELL YOU ALL, IT’S GETTING VERY DANGERIOUS HERE.

I went out about 10:30 PM Sunday June 21st, my usual, get something to eat (kabob Gai corner Pattaya Dtai (S. Pattaya) and 3rd road, then ride down Soi 7 & 8 to look at the girls. I went with a girl at Jenny Star bar about a month ago, very nice girl. She always tries to stop me and get me to take her again. When I stopped I felt sorry for some twisted lady boy that works at the bar with her so I included her in the conversation and somehow I ended up in almost in a physical confrontation with her in about two minutes. It was outright aggression, I speak Thai fairly well so there was no language misunderstanding. Thankfully my girl got me out of it by blocking my assailant and shooing me along the Soi (thank god I was on my motorbike which assured a quick exit).

Then I pulled up behind Walking Street on Soi 14 were parking is free and some girls at a bar next to where I parked tried to get me to pay the 20 baht to park there. I said I’ve been parking here for three years and I know it’s free. They seemed not to care and we started talking. When I told them I was going to Happy (a go go bar) they got angry and started shouting kee neow at me (that means your tight with your money one of the most awful things you can be called in Thai culture). So I got on my bike and moved some ware else (as they will damage your bike if they don’t like you).

Then I met some friends and went to Happy and Living Dolls, no problems. Then my friends went home and I went for a walk down Walking Street about 2:00 AM. I met some girls on Walking Street and started talking to them when another lady boy came up to me and as usual started forcing herself on me. This one seemed like a nice person so I talked to her out of friendship only, (not trying to be rude) Just to let EVERYONE know I would and could never go with a lady boy, if you live here you know what I mean they are every ware and you are forced to deal with them. After about 5 minutes I tried to leave and she went ballistic! (Because I wouldn’t go with her) She punched me hard in the chest and scratched me across the chest drawing blood. (in case you don’t believe me attached is a picture of my blood stained shirt) (**Sorry I can't figure out how to attach the file**) I know it’s a losing battle to fight with a Thai as they will just gang up on you and beat you into a hospital bed, so I just ran away as fast as I could down Walking Street and down Soi 14 to my motorbike on 3rd road. She stopped chasing me so I was free at which time I walked to my motorbike and drove home.

The police have been arresting the lady boys and the girls on the beach almost every other night, 100 or more people at a time. They are trying to change the beach into a more “Family Destination”. This is causing those people to move into the mainstream areas of Walking Street and Soi 7 & 8. There are no tourists here at all compared to the last three years and it causing desperation. These people are, I believe facing increasing problems just being able to put food in their bellies and are now being flushed into the mainstream areas where we are being forced to deal with them. It is getting DANGURIOUS in Pattaya.

Don’t were any jewelry or carry a handbag here it is DANGEROUS. If you’re riding a motorbike they come up behind you and rip it off your neck or out of your arm. It can through you off balance and you can really get hurt. These people are getting desperate and I don’t think it’s going to get better anytime soon.

Don’t count on the Police to help you (they are paid virtually nothing and it seems they consider it their right to shake down anyone from another country as an perk considered acceptable with their job) they are almost always going to try to shake you down especially if it’s late at night. You are better off on your own, just deal with it and try to get out of it before the Police come or it will cost you 3 times as much.

When I got home I realized I had my pocket picked of all my money about $2,000 baht. This is getting to be a problem for me here its happened now three times in the last six months, it’s never happened to me any where else but Walking Street. he first time I lost a 10,000 baht phone. It’s always Lady Boys and their really good at it so be careful when they approach you. Usually they approach you two or three at a time on Walking Street, one will come up and try to distract you while they are all grabbing you asking to to take them home. I thought after 3.5 years I knew the game here, I was wrong!

I thought I was going to stay the rest of my life here. I’ve booked a flight back to the USA for August 1st. I am thinking about relocating to the Philippines, I have many friends that moved there and Cambodia as well. I have another month and a half to see if this was just an unlucky night. I hope it was.

If you want to come here keep your guard up, big time!

R…..

sobering story, thanks. I'll give Pattaya a miss, next time I plan to get randy and footloose.

You're nicer than I am - in regard to ladyboys in such venues. I don't even want them near me. If they get too close, I move away. I don't even pretend to fraternize (sororitize?) with them. Some of them are mean as soi dogs.

You are absolutely right, I’m to kind; I treat them like I would anyone else but no more. I don't want them near me, I'm finished talking with them, I won't even make eye contact with them.

It's really too bad I hate having to be hateful to anyone, but it is what it is.

[Samuian]

Expat Community and Tourism are 2 pair of shoes!

Expats who live here on a tourist Visa is another pair of slippers!

And some will never ever get it - they think because THEY decided to

move their tents here - someone owes them something -

I think this is what is wrong with their attitude!

Tourism is battered yes - but this will hopefully correct somethings as the

\terrible transport Taxi-Songtheaw exploitation situation and the way too

high Bangkok Airways fees..Park Fees - general attitude "foreigner ha money, can pay"..

[loong]

Expats who live here on a tourist Visa is another pair of slippers!

Of course Expats who live here on tourist visas are included in the tourism figures. Not only included, but as they will generally make 4 Visa runs a year, each expat tourist will be included 4 times.

[beechguy]

Incidently, I do check the immigration websites occasionally and when they do amend the rules, there is often no mention of the changes. I find out about the rule changes by reading the Visa forum.

Example from the Thailand Ministry of Foreign Affairs......You are required to have an air ticket out of Thailand (fully paid) to enter Thailand with a Tourist Visa.....You can only stay in Thailand for a total of 90 days in a 6 month period using Visa Exempt entries.......Tourist and other visas can be extended at Bangkok, Soi Suan Plu, it doesn't mention that extensions can be granted at any immigration office. Visa exempt entry at land border - 15 days, no mention that there is a maximum of 4 consecutive entries.

It's only a problem for people whining and moaning, and can't be bothered with the facts. Even with the 90 days in six months limit, it was clearly specified, that it only applied to visa exempt entries. If that wasn't enough time, tourist visas were and still are, easily available.

Apparently, it wasn't too difficult for the millions of successful entries that have occured the past few years.

"can't be bothered with the facts"

Is this your favourite phrase? It's very strange coming from someone who is totally uninterested in facts that don't support his own arrogant opinion.

You say that people can do research and find out the FACTS about the entry requirements to Thailand. The FACTS are that the official government websites are NOT kept up to date and do NOT have all the correct information. I have pointed this out to you and PROVED IT AS FACT, citing examples.

THE FACTs are that many people are confused by the regulations and regular amendments. The FACT is that there are many people who post questions in the Visa section, why do they post these questions? Because of the FACT that they don't understand the requirements.

I also note that you in FACT seem to think that you have the right to tell people that 90 days is plenty of time for a tour and somehow this FACT justifies the government website giving inaccurate information.

I'm sure that you will follow this with another of your pathetic self opinionated posts totally unsupported by any real FACTS to dispute what I have said. Go ahead, but I will not waste my time to respond to any more of your moronic posts that you just keep repeating the same old Krap. I guess in your infantile mind you will be happy to have the last word.

Fact: At no time in recent history has it been impossible for people, from approximately 40 countries to get "Visa Exempt" entries. For a short time, it was limited to 90 days in six months, but still available.

Fact: If a 30 day entry isn't enough time to complete a holiday, tourist visas are available. By most accounts, double or even triple entry available in their home country.

Fact: To enter any other country, you will be required to comply with a procedure, simliar to entering Thailand.

I gave alternative sources of information. It's their choice if they want to do the required research, or have uninformed opinions. Again, to come to Thailand is not beyond the capabilities of the majority, as proven by the millions of successful entries. Infantile mind, perhaps I have one, but still was sufficient to obtain a visa and come to Thailand.

[Dakhar]

Let me tell you about my night out last night in Pattaya, for all that want to know. I'VE LIVED HERE 3.5 YEARS AND I CAN TELL YOU ALL, IT'S GETTING VERY DANGERIOUS HERE.

I went out about 10:30 PM Sunday June 21st, my usual, get something to eat (kabob Gai corner Pattaya Dtai (S. Pattaya) and 3rd road, then ride down Soi 7 & 8 to look at the girls. I went with a girl at Jenny Star bar about a month ago, very nice girl. She always tries to stop me and get me to take her again. When I stopped I felt sorry for some twisted lady boy that works at the bar with her so I included her in the conversation and somehow I ended up in almost in a physical confrontation with her in about two minutes. It was outright aggression, I speak Thai fairly well so there was no language misunderstanding. Thankfully my girl got me out of it by blocking my assailant and shooing me along the Soi (thank god I was on my motorbike which assured a quick exit).

Then I pulled up behind Walking Street on Soi 14 were parking is free and some girls at a bar next to where I parked tried to get me to pay the 20 baht to park there. I said I've been parking here for three years and I know it's free. They seemed not to care and we started talking. When I told them I was going to Happy (a go go bar) they got angry and started shouting kee neow at me (that means your tight with your money one of the most awful things you can be called in Thai culture). So I got on my bike and moved some ware else (as they will damage your bike if they don't like you).

Then I met some friends and went to Happy and Living Dolls, no problems. Then my friends went home and I went for a walk down Walking Street about 2:00 AM. I met some girls on Walking Street and started talking to them when another lady boy came up to me and as usual started forcing herself on me. This one seemed like a nice person so I talked to her out of friendship only, (not trying to be rude) Just to let EVERYONE know I would and could never go with a lady boy, if you live here you know what I mean they are every ware and you are forced to deal with them. After about 5 minutes I tried to leave and she went ballistic! (Because I wouldn't go with her) She punched me hard in the chest and scratched me across the chest drawing blood. (in case you don't believe me attached is a picture of my blood stained shirt) (**Sorry I can't figure out how to attach the file**) I know it's a losing battle to fight with a Thai as they will just gang up on you and beat you into a hospital bed, so I just ran away as fast as I could down Walking Street and down Soi 14 to my motorbike on 3rd road. She stopped chasing me so I was free at which time I walked to my motorbike and drove home.

The police have been arresting the lady boys and the girls on the beach almost every other night, 100 or more people at a time. They are trying to change the beach into a more "Family Destination". This is causing those people to move into the mainstream areas of Walking Street and Soi 7 & 8. There are no tourists here at all compared to the last three years and it causing desperation. These people are, I believe facing increasing problems just being able to put food in their bellies and are now being flushed into the mainstream areas where we are being forced to deal with them. It is getting DANGURIOUS in Pattaya.

Don't were any jewelry or carry a handbag here it is DANGEROUS. If you're riding a motorbike they come up behind you and rip it off your neck or out of your arm. It can through you off balance and you can really get hurt. These people are getting desperate and I don't think it's going to get better anytime soon.

Don't count on the Police to help you (they are paid virtually nothing and it seems they consider it their right to shake down anyone from another country as an perk considered acceptable with their job) they are almost always going to try to shake you down especially if it's late at night. You are better off on your own, just deal with it and try to get out of it before the Police come or it will cost you 3 times as much.

When I got home I realized I had my pocket picked of all my money about $2,000 baht. This is getting to be a problem for me here its happened now three times in the last six months, it's never happened to me any where else but Walking Street. he first time I lost a 10,000 baht phone. It's always Lady Boys and their really good at it so be careful when they approach you. Usually they approach you two or three at a time on Walking Street, one will come up and try to distract you while they are all grabbing you asking to to take them home. I thought after 3.5 years I knew the game here, I was wrong!

I thought I was going to stay the rest of my life here. I've booked a flight back to the USA for August 1st. I am thinking about relocating to the Philippines, I have many friends that moved there and Cambodia as well. I have another month and a half to see if this was just an unlucky night. I hope it was.

If you want to come here keep your guard up, big time!

R…..

I think that this is a fair point. Since the days of the Vietnam War, Hippy Trail and Lonley Planet, Thailand has seen a Tsunami of cash wash across its shores. Thai people have begun to take this for granted and almost consider it a god given right. However, since the power of the internet has given consumers more knowledge about travel destinations and the pros/cons of those places we all now have considerable options. Good for us but not so good for the rip-off merchants, scammers, BIB mafia et al.

Given the strength of convictions on why Thailand's tourism business is in the toilet, I see more and more following suit and making for safer shores. As a consequence, Thailand's main tourist hubs are in serious trouble and perhaps it will only take another 'high season?' like the last one with its political turmoil, hostage situations, street rioting, constant alchohol bans on high days and holidays to seal its fate, so to speak. It may well get a lot, lot more dangerous for both tourists/expats and Thais as Thai people dependant on tourism get a lot, lot more desparate.

I know of guys that hook up with local girls just for protection.... meaning the girls keep them out of trouble, because they know the scams...

sad

[Jingthing]

The fluid and complex visa situation is good for this forum though! Anyone who has been caught in the middle of an instantly enforced change done with NO WARNING knows just how hazardous Thai immigration rules can be, indeed. Yes, it has happened to me ... totally not my fault, it would have been impossible to read their minds before they took the action.

Edited June 21, 2009 by Jingthing

[loong]

The fluid and complex visa situation is good for this forum though! Anyone who has been caught in the middle of an instantly enforced change done with NO WARNING knows just how hazardous Thai immigration rules can be, indeed. Yes, it has happened to me ... totally not my fault, it would have been impossible to read their minds before they took the action.

The people who have found Thaivisa are very lucky indeed. In fact I'd like to propose a vote of thanks for the few individuals and mods in the Visa section whose expertise and knowledge help so many people. Their unselfish and tireless work guide so many through the minefield of confusing regulations and keep us updated on the frequent amendments.

Thanks for everything people, many forget to show their appreciation.

[pepi2005]

Thanks for everything people, many forget to show their appreciation.

the TAT should reward them ... one of the few "Thai" institutions that are actually very helpful

and dedicated to help Non-Thais to survive here ...

Well I'm not as naive to think that the reward would be a share of the billions the TAT will receive

from the government for measures of unknown kind to "boost" tourism as mentioned above,

but maybe a free A/C taxi ride (!) to the Immigration Office for their next visa extension?

[Ulysses G.]

Let me tell you about my night out last night in Pattaya, for all that want to know. I'VE LIVED HERE 3.5 YEARS AND I CAN TELL YOU ALL, IT'S GETTING VERY DANGERIOUS HERE.

I am thinking about relocating to the Philippines

You are moving to the Phillipines because Thailand is "dangerous"? Bring a BIG F*CKING GUN!

[stub]

It's not a perfect system, but it apparently it worked well enough for millions of entries the past few years. Current, accurate information is out there, (Consulates, Embassies, airlines, travel agents) if a tourist can't figure out how to get here, that's their problem.

No, its Thailand's problem. The tourist can go somewhere else, and so does their money. The tourist has no problem. A tourist is a very precious commodity today, and the smart countries are doing everything they can to grab a bigger portion of the shrinking pie. Its a buyers market out there for the tourist, particularly if you are after a generic product like 'beach holiday'.

[beechguy]

It's not a perfect system, but it apparently it worked well enough for millions of entries the past few years. Current, accurate information is out there, (Consulates, Embassies, airlines, travel agents) if a tourist can't figure out how to get here, that's their problem.

No, its Thailand's problem. The tourist can go somewhere else, and so does their money. The tourist has no problem. A tourist is a very precious commodity today, and the smart countries are doing everything they can to grab a bigger portion of the shrinking pie. Its a buyers market out there for the tourist, particularly if you are after a generic product like 'beach holiday'.

If a tourist wanted to enter Thailand, there is nothing preventing them from coming here. Visa exempt entries and tourist visas have been and still are available. IF the tourist is unhappy about that, then that IS his problem.

But, as mentioned numerous times before, there are plenty of reasons to chose some other destination. Unfortunately, a number of the issues people complain about are also found in other countries as well. I hope they have a pleasant holiday wherever they choose.

Edited June 22, 2009 by beechguy

[henryalleman]

modern tourism is like a swarm of grasshoppers They find a nice and authentic place, overwhelming it and destroy the authenticity of it and than complain the place lost his attraction and than move on to some other place and leave the once so nice place completely destroyed.

IMHO there are just too much tourist and not enough travelers. I you know what I mean.

I do know what you mean, but you're not quite right.

I've never seen a tourist arrive with a cement mixer with the intention to smother the greenery with grey. It's actually the locals. They want to make money and can't recognise that tourist come because they like the place as it is. The locals change it into something that they think the tourists want. Sometimes they are right - sometimes wrong.

That's exactly what I mean. I saw this happening all over the world. My hometown is visitid by 2 million tourist each year, well the best spots are completely unknown by tourists( I thank to God for that)

[xminator]

It's not a perfect system, but it apparently it worked well enough for millions of entries the past few years. Current, accurate information is out there, (Consulates, Embassies, airlines, travel agents) if a tourist can't figure out how to get here, that's their problem.

No, its Thailand's problem. The tourist can go somewhere else, and so does their money. The tourist has no problem. A tourist is a very precious commodity today, and the smart countries are doing everything they can to grab a bigger portion of the shrinking pie. Its a buyers market out there for the tourist, particularly if you are after a generic product like 'beach holiday'.

If a tourist wanted to enter Thailand, there is nothing preventing them from coming here. Visa exempt entries and tourist visas have been and still are available. IF the tourist is unhappy about that, then that IS his problem.

But, as mentioned numerous times before, there are plenty of reasons to chose some other destination. Unfortunately, a number of the issues people complain about are also found in other countries as well. I hope they have a pleasant holiday wherever they choose.

If your not happy with the burger in BS1, and decide to buy it in BS2 instead, then its a very smal inconvinience for the customer, and a large problem for BS1. Mostly so if the reason for unhappyness is a general nosy attitude toward the customer (eg. you dont like it go somewhere else!).

[Pawpcorn]

Never a dull moment in the LOS... And I hadn't even THOUGHT of this new way to "batter tourism"...

Latest and greatest blow: Nationwide strike halts all trains; Many passengers left stranded

Oh my... what's next???

[harleyclarkey]

Let me tell you about my night out last night in Pattaya, for all that want to know. I'VE LIVED HERE 3.5 YEARS AND I CAN TELL YOU ALL, IT'S GETTING VERY DANGERIOUS HERE.

I went out about 10:30 PM Sunday June 21st, my usual, get something to eat (kabob Gai corner Pattaya Dtai (S. Pattaya) and 3rd road, then ride down Soi 7 & 8 to look at the girls. I went with a girl at Jenny Star bar about a month ago, very nice girl. She always tries to stop me and get me to take her again. When I stopped I felt sorry for some twisted lady boy that works at the bar with her so I included her in the conversation and somehow I ended up in almost in a physical confrontation with her in about two minutes. It was outright aggression, I speak Thai fairly well so there was no language misunderstanding. Thankfully my girl got me out of it by blocking my assailant and shooing me along the Soi (thank god I was on my motorbike which assured a quick exit).

Then I pulled up behind Walking Street on Soi 14 were parking is free and some girls at a bar next to where I parked tried to get me to pay the 20 baht to park there. I said I've been parking here for three years and I know it's free. They seemed not to care and we started talking. When I told them I was going to Happy (a go go bar) they got angry and started shouting kee neow at me (that means your tight with your money one of the most awful things you can be called in Thai culture). So I got on my bike and moved some ware else (as they will damage your bike if they don't like you).

Then I met some friends and went to Happy and Living Dolls, no problems. Then my friends went home and I went for a walk down Walking Street about 2:00 AM. I met some girls on Walking Street and started talking to them when another lady boy came up to me and as usual started forcing herself on me. This one seemed like a nice person so I talked to her out of friendship only, (not trying to be rude) Just to let EVERYONE know I would and could never go with a lady boy, if you live here you know what I mean they are every ware and you are forced to deal with them. After about 5 minutes I tried to leave and she went ballistic! (Because I wouldn't go with her) She punched me hard in the chest and scratched me across the chest drawing blood. (in case you don't believe me attached is a picture of my blood stained shirt) (**Sorry I can't figure out how to attach the file**) I know it's a losing battle to fight with a Thai as they will just gang up on you and beat you into a hospital bed, so I just ran away as fast as I could down Walking Street and down Soi 14 to my motorbike on 3rd road. She stopped chasing me so I was free at which time I walked to my motorbike and drove home.

The police have been arresting the lady boys and the girls on the beach almost every other night, 100 or more people at a time. They are trying to change the beach into a more "Family Destination". This is causing those people to move into the mainstream areas of Walking Street and Soi 7 & 8. There are no tourists here at all compared to the last three years and it causing desperation. These people are, I believe facing increasing problems just being able to put food in their bellies and are now being flushed into the mainstream areas where we are being forced to deal with them. It is getting DANGURIOUS in Pattaya.

Don't were any jewelry or carry a handbag here it is DANGEROUS. If you're riding a motorbike they come up behind you and rip it off your neck or out of your arm. It can through you off balance and you can really get hurt. These people are getting desperate and I don't think it's going to get better anytime soon.

Don't count on the Police to help you (they are paid virtually nothing and it seems they consider it their right to shake down anyone from another country as an perk considered acceptable with their job) they are almost always going to try to shake you down especially if it's late at night. You are better off on your own, just deal with it and try to get out of it before the Police come or it will cost you 3 times as much.

When I got home I realized I had my pocket picked of all my money about $2,000 baht. This is getting to be a problem for me here its happened now three times in the last six months, it's never happened to me any where else but Walking Street. he first time I lost a 10,000 baht phone. It's always Lady Boys and their really good at it so be careful when they approach you. Usually they approach you two or three at a time on Walking Street, one will come up and try to distract you while they are all grabbing you asking to to take them home. I thought after 3.5 years I knew the game here, I was wrong!

I thought I was going to stay the rest of my life here. I've booked a flight back to the USA for August 1st. I am thinking about relocating to the Philippines, I have many friends that moved there and Cambodia as well. I have another month and a half to see if this was just an unlucky night. I hope it was.

If you want to come here keep your guard up, big time!

R…..

Geez Robert...a really nasty picture of a resort in rapid decline. I went to Pattaya once and left after 8 hours.....6 of those asleep ...alone!

Far too many drunken louts, shouting, looking for a fight. When you get a concentration of rowdy tourists you also attract the worst elements of Thai society. Would any sane tourist come back if this is now the norm? It takes time for the bad times and stories to filter through the tourist system and slow things down.

I am sure it was a lovely place some years ago.....what is the feeling of others to live there now???

As a matter of balance. I was robbed TWICE in Rome last year. I am street savvy, awake, was sober and the buggers got me! I managed to grab one of them a few streets away...but was told by locals to let him go....the cops won't bother to come! I gave him a few digs and dumped him.

Edited June 22, 2009 by harleyclarkey