Getting A Bad Reputation

[G54]

When, through no deliberate fault of your own, you get a bad reputation locally because a small sector of people decide they like to stir the sh*t, for whatever reason, be it jealousy, being overlooked, ignored, their face put out because you do not want to know them, or for petty revenge because you refused to date them or have dumped them because of excessive demands.

They start to talk and make up stories you yourself know to be untrue. Even start to get to people you have long friendships with and make life difficult for them also and it is starting to affect your social life and also any future prospects you may have locally, what do you do?

The obvious and easy answer seems to be to move on.

That means moving the car, the m/c, furniture and all the other sundry items you have acquired over time.

You can sell the car and the m/c but at reduced cost especially when they see a Farang owner and they want to give you as little as possible.

Things like the fridge freezer, washing machine, computer, bed and furniture are not so easy to sell here. Do you either take them with you and that means an unfurnished place or dump them? Also means finding an unfurnished place that is suitable when it might be easier for the future to be in a furnished place so you can simply 'up and go'.

Or do you hang on in there. Put up with or ignore the sh*t and get on with life and hope the stirrers find another target for their gossip and innuendo?

[JohnGotti]

Grow a pair?

[redscouse]

spread a rumour that you have a 12 inch penis, that always works for me

[joskydive]

Stay there and smile. There is nothing more irritating than when the object of someone's petty whinging is getting on with their life with a smile on his face and hasn't got a care in the world.

[Lost in LOS]

spread a rumour that you have a 12 inch penis, that always works for me

yeah, but we all heard it was just an unsubstantiated rumor

[apetley]

spread a rumour that you have a 12 inch penis, that always works for me

I not folding mine in half for anything.

[Scott]

Sticks and stones.... I know if I moved because of gossip, I'd have to get a mobile home. Just stick it out. Like a wildfire, it dies down in time.

[rak sa_ngop]

spread a rumour that you have a 12 inch penis, that always works for me

...and you use it as a rule?

[Scottish Thailander]

Moving and selling up? Drastic move and unfair. You could always apply the Thai way of dealing with it....Might shut them all up, even the threat of action might stop further comments.

Sorry this is a bit long (copied from elsewhere on TV (TV lawyers advice) but forgotten the link......

Defamation of Character

Criminal Liability

Criminal liability for defamation is covered by Sections 326 to 333 of the Thai Penal Code, which provide for punishment by imprisonment not exceeding one year or a fine not exceeding Baht 20,000, or both. The Penal Code also provides that any imputation made upon a deceased person to a third party, which is calculated to impair the reputation of his/her father, mother, spouse, or child, or to expose the deceased to hatred or contempt, is an offense. Defamation committed by means of publication of a document, drawing, painting, cinematograph, picture, or letters made visible by any means, gramophone record, or any other recording or broadcast is punishable by imprisonment not exceeding two years and a fine not exceeding Baht 200,000.

The Thai Civil and Commercial Code (CCC) has defamation provisions, but does not distinguish between libel and slander. In the chapter on Wrongful Acts, Section 423 of the CCC, it states that any person who, contrary to the truth, asserts or circulates as a fact that which is injurious to the reputation or credit of another, or his earnings or prosperity in any manner, shall compensate the injured party for any resulting damage. Being unaware that a statement is false does not constitute a defense, provided the person ought to have known it was false. Section 447 of the CCC gives the Court a right, upon application of the aggrieved party, to order other measures, either instead of or in addition to payment of damages, for the rehabilitation of the injured party’s reputation.

Claims for damages arising from defamation are barred after one year from the date the wrongful act and person responsible became known to the injured person, or ten years from the day when the wrongful act was committed (Section 448). If, however, damages claimed arise from a wrongful act which is also punishable under criminal law for which a longer period is prescribed, then such period also applies to the civil action. For the purpose of achieving faster results, criminal actions are filed much more frequently than civil suits. Defamation actions are often reported in the press.

Defense Against Criminal Libel

There are three defenses to a charge of criminal libel:

• The statement is true, unless the defamatory imputation is of a personal nature and would not be of benefit to the public.
  
• A fair comment was made in good faith -
  

1. By way of self-justification or defense.
   
2. For the protection of any legitimate interest.
   
3. Upon the status of an official in the exercise of his functions.
   
4. By way of fair report in the proceedings of any.
   

• The opinions or statements expressed during proceedings were by the parties involved, their lawyers, or their witnesses.
  

Under Section 332 of the Penal Code, the Court may order destruction of the defamatory matter and that publication of the Court’s judgment be made in one or more newspapers once or several times at the expense of the guilty party.

Civil Liability

There are two defenses to a civil action for defamation:

• Justification, where the defendant in a civil action may escape liability if he/she can prove that the statement was substantially justified, i.e. true, but more than just true. There has to be a valid reason for having made the statement even if true. It is not an absolute defense to a criminal prosecution for libel to prove that the statement was simply true.
  
• Privileged communication, where a person may make a communication in good faith to persons having a rightful interest in it, even though the information given may later be found to be erroneous. For example, in Dika (Supreme) Court Case No. 938/2519, the Thai Bankers Association circulated a notice to its members warning them that the action of a group of persons which included the plaintiff might be damaging to the members’ business.
  

The action of the Thai Bankers Association was held to be a valid protection of a legitimate interest.

Opinions or statements expressed during court proceedings are privileged.

Another form of privileged communication involves statements made by members of the Senate or the House of Representatives of the National Assembly when stating facts or opinions or in casting votes. No charge or other manner of action can be brought against such legislative members. This privilege extends to printers and publishers of the Legislative Minutes and to persons permitted by the presiding member to give statements of fact or opinion at such sittings.

Insult to Character

There is another offense under the Penal Code, namely insult, as provided for under Section 393 of the Penal Code stating that whoever insults any person in his presence or by publication shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one month or a fine not exceeding Baht 1,000, or both.

Insult is also one of several grounds for divorce.

Defamation is more serious than mere insult. Defamation must involve publication to third parties and must lower the plaintiff in the eyes of right-thinking members of society. However, insult does not have such an effect and need not take place before any person other than the plaintiff.

The need for insult provisions in the law is better appreciated with some knowledge of the Thai language and of the Thai mental approach to life and social relations. It is a characteristic of Thais that they are particularly sensitive to personal abuse, which is taken very seriously. The Thai language contains many colorful expletives which, while not defamatory, are exceedingly hurtful to the sensitive Thai. Such phrases lose their significance in translation and might seem comparatively innocuous to westerners.

Examples include aye sat, meaning “you are such a base and low creature”, or aye haa, meaning “you are physically sick”, while aye baa means “you are mentally sick”.

For many reasons, but principally because of the delay and cost of litigation in Thailand, courts see few insult actions except as a basis for divorce. Insults, however, can lead to nasty altercations and confrontations, so being polite at all times cannot be stressed often enough.

While damages awarded in defamation cases are minimal, the time and expense consumed in prosecuting or defending these actions can be massive.It is important to realize that in Thailand nothing detrimental to any business or individual is permissible because of Thailand's strong laws against negative comments about individuals, businesses or officials. Defamation is both a civil and criminal offense in Thailand.

The final judgment can be ANY amount which the court approves, including jail time. It is in line with the perceived amount that the defamatory statements have cost the business. So, if the business claims you have cost them 2 million baht in lost business and reputation, they can then claim this in a civil suit.

[pattaya_girl]

Stay there and smile. There is nothing more irritating than when the object of someone's petty whinging is getting on with their life with a smile on his face and hasn't got a care in the world.

My thoughts as well, make a whole new bunch of friends, new hobby's ect ect.. Show them, there is life and anjoyment, after them.

[Carib]

Moving and selling up? Drastic move and unfair. You could always apply the Thai way of dealing with it....Might shut them all up, even the threat of action might stop further comments.

Sorry this is a bit long (copied from elsewhere on TV (TV lawyers advice) but forgotten the link......

Defamation of Character

Criminal Liability

Criminal liability for defamation is covered by Sections 326 to 333 of the Thai Penal Code, which provide for punishment by imprisonment not exceeding one year or a fine not exceeding Baht 20,000, or both. The Penal Code also provides that any imputation made upon a deceased person to a third party, which is calculated to impair the reputation of his/her father, mother, spouse, or child, or to expose the deceased to hatred or contempt, is an offense. Defamation committed by means of publication of a document, drawing, painting, cinematograph, picture, or letters made visible by any means, gramophone record, or any other recording or broadcast is punishable by imprisonment not exceeding two years and a fine not exceeding Baht 200,000.

The Thai Civil and Commercial Code (CCC) has defamation provisions, but does not distinguish between libel and slander. In the chapter on Wrongful Acts, Section 423 of the CCC, it states that any person who, contrary to the truth, asserts or circulates as a fact that which is injurious to the reputation or credit of another, or his earnings or prosperity in any manner, shall compensate the injured party for any resulting damage. Being unaware that a statement is false does not constitute a defense, provided the person ought to have known it was false. Section 447 of the CCC gives the Court a right, upon application of the aggrieved party, to order other measures, either instead of or in addition to payment of damages, for the rehabilitation of the injured party's reputation.

Claims for damages arising from defamation are barred after one year from the date the wrongful act and person responsible became known to the injured person, or ten years from the day when the wrongful act was committed (Section 448). If, however, damages claimed arise from a wrongful act which is also punishable under criminal law for which a longer period is prescribed, then such period also applies to the civil action. For the purpose of achieving faster results, criminal actions are filed much more frequently than civil suits. Defamation actions are often reported in the press.

Defense Against Criminal Libel

There are three defenses to a charge of criminal libel:

• The statement is true, unless the defamatory imputation is of a personal nature and would not be of benefit to the public.
  
• A fair comment was made in good faith -
  

1. By way of self-justification or defense.
   
2. For the protection of any legitimate interest.
   
3. Upon the status of an official in the exercise of his functions.
   
4. By way of fair report in the proceedings of any.
   

• The opinions or statements expressed during proceedings were by the parties involved, their lawyers, or their witnesses.
  

Under Section 332 of the Penal Code, the Court may order destruction of the defamatory matter and that publication of the Court's judgment be made in one or more newspapers once or several times at the expense of the guilty party.

Civil Liability

There are two defenses to a civil action for defamation:

• Justification, where the defendant in a civil action may escape liability if he/she can prove that the statement was substantially justified, i.e. true, but more than just true. There has to be a valid reason for having made the statement even if true. It is not an absolute defense to a criminal prosecution for libel to prove that the statement was simply true.
  
• Privileged communication, where a person may make a communication in good faith to persons having a rightful interest in it, even though the information given may later be found to be erroneous. For example, in Dika (Supreme) Court Case No. 938/2519, the Thai Bankers Association circulated a notice to its members warning them that the action of a group of persons which included the plaintiff might be damaging to the members' business.
  

The action of the Thai Bankers Association was held to be a valid protection of a legitimate interest.

Opinions or statements expressed during court proceedings are privileged.

Another form of privileged communication involves statements made by members of the Senate or the House of Representatives of the National Assembly when stating facts or opinions or in casting votes. No charge or other manner of action can be brought against such legislative members. This privilege extends to printers and publishers of the Legislative Minutes and to persons permitted by the presiding member to give statements of fact or opinion at such sittings.

Insult to Character

There is another offense under the Penal Code, namely insult, as provided for under Section 393 of the Penal Code stating that whoever insults any person in his presence or by publication shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one month or a fine not exceeding Baht 1,000, or both.

Insult is also one of several grounds for divorce.

Defamation is more serious than mere insult. Defamation must involve publication to third parties and must lower the plaintiff in the eyes of right-thinking members of society. However, insult does not have such an effect and need not take place before any person other than the plaintiff.

The need for insult provisions in the law is better appreciated with some knowledge of the Thai language and of the Thai mental approach to life and social relations. It is a characteristic of Thais that they are particularly sensitive to personal abuse, which is taken very seriously. The Thai language contains many colorful expletives which, while not defamatory, are exceedingly hurtful to the sensitive Thai. Such phrases lose their significance in translation and might seem comparatively innocuous to westerners.

Examples include aye sat, meaning "you are such a base and low creature", or aye haa, meaning "you are physically sick", while aye baa means "you are mentally sick".

For many reasons, but principally because of the delay and cost of litigation in Thailand, courts see few insult actions except as a basis for divorce. Insults, however, can lead to nasty altercations and confrontations, so being polite at all times cannot be stressed often enough.

While damages awarded in defamation cases are minimal, the time and expense consumed in prosecuting or defending these actions can be massive.It is important to realize that in Thailand nothing detrimental to any business or individual is permissible because of Thailand's strong laws against negative comments about individuals, businesses or officials. Defamation is both a civil and criminal offense in Thailand.

The final judgment can be ANY amount which the court approves, including jail time. It is in line with the perceived amount that the defamatory statements have cost the business. So, if the business claims you have cost them 2 million baht in lost business and reputation, they can then claim this in a civil suit.

Yeah right, ...snigger..

[mrtoad]

Moving and selling up? Drastic move and unfair. You could always apply the Thai way of dealing with it....Might shut them all up, even the threat of action might stop further comments.

Sorry this is a bit long (copied from elsewhere on TV (TV lawyers advice) but forgotten the link......

Defamation of Character

Criminal Liability

Criminal liability for defamation is covered by Sections 326 to 333 of the Thai Penal Code, which provide for punishment by imprisonment not exceeding one year or a fine not exceeding Baht 20,000, or both. The Penal Code also provides that any imputation made upon a deceased person to a third party, which is calculated to impair the reputation of his/her father, mother, spouse, or child, or to expose the deceased to hatred or contempt, is an offense. Defamation committed by means of publication of a document, drawing, painting, cinematograph, picture, or letters made visible by any means, gramophone record, or any other recording or broadcast is punishable by imprisonment not exceeding two years and a fine not exceeding Baht 200,000.

The Thai Civil and Commercial Code (CCC) has defamation provisions, but does not distinguish between libel and slander. In the chapter on Wrongful Acts, Section 423 of the CCC, it states that any person who, contrary to the truth, asserts or circulates as a fact that which is injurious to the reputation or credit of another, or his earnings or prosperity in any manner, shall compensate the injured party for any resulting damage. Being unaware that a statement is false does not constitute a defense, provided the person ought to have known it was false. Section 447 of the CCC gives the Court a right, upon application of the aggrieved party, to order other measures, either instead of or in addition to payment of damages, for the rehabilitation of the injured party’s reputation.

Claims for damages arising from defamation are barred after one year from the date the wrongful act and person responsible became known to the injured person, or ten years from the day when the wrongful act was committed (Section 448). If, however, damages claimed arise from a wrongful act which is also punishable under criminal law for which a longer period is prescribed, then such period also applies to the civil action. For the purpose of achieving faster results, criminal actions are filed much more frequently than civil suits. Defamation actions are often reported in the press.

Defense Against Criminal Libel

There are three defenses to a charge of criminal libel:

• The statement is true, unless the defamatory imputation is of a personal nature and would not be of benefit to the public.
  
• A fair comment was made in good faith -
  

1. By way of self-justification or defense.
   
2. For the protection of any legitimate interest.
   
3. Upon the status of an official in the exercise of his functions.
   
4. By way of fair report in the proceedings of any.
   

• The opinions or statements expressed during proceedings were by the parties involved, their lawyers, or their witnesses.
  

Under Section 332 of the Penal Code, the Court may order destruction of the defamatory matter and that publication of the Court’s judgment be made in one or more newspapers once or several times at the expense of the guilty party.

Civil Liability

There are two defenses to a civil action for defamation:

• Justification, where the defendant in a civil action may escape liability if he/she can prove that the statement was substantially justified, i.e. true, but more than just true. There has to be a valid reason for having made the statement even if true. It is not an absolute defense to a criminal prosecution for libel to prove that the statement was simply true.
  
• Privileged communication, where a person may make a communication in good faith to persons having a rightful interest in it, even though the information given may later be found to be erroneous. For example, in Dika (Supreme) Court Case No. 938/2519, the Thai Bankers Association circulated a notice to its members warning them that the action of a group of persons which included the plaintiff might be damaging to the members’ business.
  

The action of the Thai Bankers Association was held to be a valid protection of a legitimate interest.

Opinions or statements expressed during court proceedings are privileged.

Another form of privileged communication involves statements made by members of the Senate or the House of Representatives of the National Assembly when stating facts or opinions or in casting votes. No charge or other manner of action can be brought against such legislative members. This privilege extends to printers and publishers of the Legislative Minutes and to persons permitted by the presiding member to give statements of fact or opinion at such sittings.

Insult to Character

There is another offense under the Penal Code, namely insult, as provided for under Section 393 of the Penal Code stating that whoever insults any person in his presence or by publication shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one month or a fine not exceeding Baht 1,000, or both.

Insult is also one of several grounds for divorce.

Defamation is more serious than mere insult. Defamation must involve publication to third parties and must lower the plaintiff in the eyes of right-thinking members of society. However, insult does not have such an effect and need not take place before any person other than the plaintiff.

The need for insult provisions in the law is better appreciated with some knowledge of the Thai language and of the Thai mental approach to life and social relations. It is a characteristic of Thais that they are particularly sensitive to personal abuse, which is taken very seriously. The Thai language contains many colorful expletives which, while not defamatory, are exceedingly hurtful to the sensitive Thai. Such phrases lose their significance in translation and might seem comparatively innocuous to westerners.

Examples include aye sat, meaning “you are such a base and low creature”, or aye haa, meaning “you are physically sick”, while aye baa means “you are mentally sick”.

For many reasons, but principally because of the delay and cost of litigation in Thailand, courts see few insult actions except as a basis for divorce. Insults, however, can lead to nasty altercations and confrontations, so being polite at all times cannot be stressed often enough.

While damages awarded in defamation cases are minimal, the time and expense consumed in prosecuting or defending these actions can be massive.It is important to realize that in Thailand nothing detrimental to any business or individual is permissible because of Thailand's strong laws against negative comments about individuals, businesses or officials. Defamation is both a civil and criminal offense in Thailand.

The final judgment can be ANY amount which the court approves, including jail time. It is in line with the perceived amount that the defamatory statements have cost the business. So, if the business claims you have cost them 2 million baht in lost business and reputation, they can then claim this in a civil suit.

In your dreams.

[Gary A]

Normally where there is smoke there's fire.

[mrtoad]

Normally where there is smoke there's fire.

Maybe he's been "smoked" out.

[EvilDrSomkid]

When, through no deliberate fault of your own, you get a bad reputation locally because a small sector of people decide they like to stir the sh*t, for whatever reason, be it jealousy, being overlooked, ignored, their face put out because you do not want to know them, or for petty revenge because you refused to date them or have dumped them because of excessive demands.

They start to talk and make up stories you yourself know to be untrue. Even start to get to people you have long friendships with and make life difficult for them also and it is starting to affect your social life and also any future prospects you may have locally, what do you do?

The obvious and easy answer seems to be to move on.

That means moving the car, the m/c, furniture and all the other sundry items you have acquired over time.

You can sell the car and the m/c but at reduced cost especially when they see a Farang owner and they want to give you as little as possible.

Things like the fridge freezer, washing machine, computer, bed and furniture are not so easy to sell here. Do you either take them with you and that means an unfurnished place or dump them? Also means finding an unfurnished place that is suitable when it might be easier for the future to be in a furnished place so you can simply 'up and go'.

Or do you hang on in there. Put up with or ignore the sh*t and get on with life and hope the stirrers find another target for their gossip and innuendo?

Yo G, could you please be a little more specific? Just nit noi. If you have a case of a woman scorned (as in hel_l hath no fury like), you might have trouble.

Do you know who is making you look bad? If yes, have it out with them. If no, you find out.

You will also find out who your real friends are in the town.

Move? It will just make you lose even more face.

Chohk dee khap.

[saintofsilence]

Move on and don't waste time being unhappy

[Texpat]

grow a pair.

[G54]

spread a rumour that you have a 12 inch penis, that always works for me

...and you use it as a rule?

Used mine as a hoe

[zzdocxx]

What on earth happened?

Or is that posted in another thread?

[G54]

Yo G, could you please be a little more specific? Just nit noi. If you have a case of a woman scorned (as in hel_l hath no fury like), you might have trouble.

Do you know who is making you look bad? If yes, have it out with them. If no, you find out.

You will also find out who your real friends are in the town.

Move? It will just make you lose even more face.

Chohk dee khap.

OK so the consensus is stay around. Fair enough.

Woman scorned? If I knew who then I might know if that is the case. All I do know is it is female and causing aggro wherever I go. I am pretty sure it is not an ex.

All the fun of the fair

[G54]

Ah, yes. 'Grow a pair'. That has nothing to do with it. But for some it is a typical response

[Gary A]

Actually I have found Thai women to be quite perceptive. I once met a guy on the plane on the way over here. I took him to my favorite bar and the girls ignored him. After he left for his hotel, the girls told me he was no good. It turned out they were right and I was wrong.

[BigSnake]

G54 Stand Fast DON'T let the bastards run you out/get you down, if you are a truly good person the truth will SHINE sooner or later, if you CUT and RUN you are (burning bridges) losing a few friends you might have in the area. STAND FAST!! tell them to Kiss your A#S

Edited June 18, 2009 by BigSnake

[longballlarry]

Run away and set camp in the jungle . Set explosive trip wires within a 50 metre radius of your now, live in, isolated shed

[G54]

G54 Stand Fast DON'T let the bastards run you out/get you down, if you are a truly good person the truth will SHINE sooner or later, if you CUT and RUN you are (burning bridges) losing a few friends you might have in the area. STAND FAST!! tell them to Kiss your A#S

I would rather kiss theirs

Sexxxxyyyy LOL.

Seriously, I appreciate the sentiments and I am tending to think the same.

Run away and set camp in the jungle . Set explosive trip wires within a 50 metre radius of your now, live in, isolated shed

An isolated shed? Not good. Isolation means no pussy to ........

[TBWG]

spread a rumour that you have a 12 inch penis, that always works for me

...and you use it as a rule?

Do you keep it in your pocket for safe measure?

TBWG

PS Stand your ground and smile a lot, they will soon get fed up find another cause to pursue. Good luck.

[timinchina]

hel_l hath no fury like a ladyboy scorned...

[Geekfreaklover]

I've lived in several provinces in Thailand and have been subject to gossip. some good. some bad. but gossip and rumors nevertheless. You can't can't move away from it. Being a farang you stick out like a sore thumb. But, and it is a big but, lets not forget that it's not just farangs who get a bad rep. Single mums, poor people, rich people, successful people, failures, kids and animals. They all get a dose. It's a national passtime. Folks love to look down on people to try and elevate themselves somewhere above their preconceived station. It's normally the ill educated beetlenut chewing generation without a pot to pee in that dish out the scandals, by the way. Most middle class working folk couldn't give a flying duck what you do.

If you keep living the life you live then you will have the same problems in a different location. I think people should do what they want to do (within reason) Don't move.

My advice? If you don't know the language then learn it. Confront who you think is spreading the bad reputation and watch them shrivel up to the size of a peanut when faced with the concept of confrontation.

Thais hate confrontation on their own terms. They really don't like it.

Don't let people get you down.

[IanForbes]

Greekfreaklover gave the best advice and explanation. If you are enjoying life where you are located then just continue doing what pleases you. If you bounce from woman to woman then it is only natural that you are going to piss of a few wherever you might be. Many Thai women get jealous, even the bar girls. Live with it and accept the consequences of YOUR own actions.