More Airbus Woes - Now Made In China!

[Carib]

Its not about China bashing. It is really about Airbus. And bad timing. And lousy hardware & software manufacture, plus a myriad

of other instances that all helped contribute to a deadly Air France 447 wreck, as explained throughout this thread.

If anyone - perish the thought that they would for a moment quit the incessant bashing - has any reasonable, logical, thought or

reasonable contribution to the root cause, please drop it on us.

Just for one magnanimous moment, place yourself in any family's shoes, who only want closure, to move on, and for it not to happen

to others. I have not flown an Airbus in +2 years, for much the same reasons. Plus its my God given right.

Boeing's fine, even if the make silly little spoons, flaps & doors in Timbuktu. So long as they assemble/build it in Seattle.

When they quit that part, there's always Gulfstream, and my boat. Y'all can fly here - I will buy dinner & drinks.

BR>Jack

See bold underlined part above.

You are right Jack that it is not about China, the soft and hardware of the fly by wire system of the crashed airbus was made by Honeywell which happens to be American. In the case of the Qantas bird which experienced jolts in flight it was made by Grumman/Northrop.

With Boeing it is no different than with any other aircraft manufacturer, much of it is made in China, not just the the plastic spoons. You would be surprised how much of it is Chinese. Think Chinese every time you hear the landingear go down or the flaps or the steering parts move and so on.

The 787 will be made for at least 3/4 in Japan and Italy. Much of the rest of that bird will come from..Sorry Jack, but it is China.

Stop dreaming that homemade dream, it doesn't exist anymore. Not for the US nor for any other country.

What I did notice is that you changed your mantra to: So long as they assemble/build it in Seattle.

You are slowly getting the picture there. Seattle has become an assembly plant, for the parts which are made world wide.

If Boeing wants to survive in their current set up, they will just have to.

Anyone who says that an aircraft manufacturer is making money nowadays, and I am talking big bird manufacturers, is a liar.

Airbus builds and assembles in China. Boeing would love to do that too, but only politics and false patriotism forbid it.

Don`t try to turn the tables Jack by now saying that others are bashing. You are the one who opened a topic about " More Airbus woes", and not just here, but in all related topics you have done nothing else but being negative about anything that is/ was not American made, as far as you at least still "thought " it was American made.

[scorecard]

Its not about China bashing. It is really about Airbus. And bad timing. And lousy hardware & software manufacture, plus a myriad

of other instances that all helped contribute to a deadly Air France 447 wreck, as explained throughout this thread.

If anyone - perish the thought that they would for a moment quit the incessant bashing - has any reasonable, logical, thought or

reasonable contribution to the root cause, please drop it on us.

Just for one magnanimous moment, place yourself in any family's shoes, who only want closure, to move on, and for it not to happen

to others. I have not flown an Airbus in +2 years, for much the same reasons. Plus its my God given right.

Boeing's fine, even if the make silly little spoons, flaps & doors in Timbuktu. So long as they assemble/build it in Seattle.

When they quit that part, there's always Gulfstream, and my boat. Y'all can fly here - I will buy dinner & drinks.

BR>Jack

And do cars actually assembled in US manufacturing plants never have recalls?

Has there never been a car designed/manufacturer in the US which has been a flop?

[Latindancer]

Edit for remark. I think you could also have just a language /edeting/and quoting problem. Positive to you I mean. Mix ups do have a simple basis sometimes. Work on it.

Ok Carib, here's what I think happened in our little "misunderstanding", from an objective viewpoint : You expected me to state clearly my position : whether I think Airbuses are going to be as good as before (now they are made in China), or whether they will be worse. You indicate this by saying "but you do not seem to know how to write something, or to make it clear what you exactly mean to achieve by it". That's ok, but reality is not always black and white. My post you objected to was simply clarifying what everyone else had been saying.......that ALL degrees of quality are made in China. Though I did also state that my opinion was that good stuff is made by international companies, under supervision by their staff. This is, I believe, YOUR position on the matter.

I just threw a spanner in the works by making a flippant cynical remark about the first Airbus about to be test-flown.

This irritated and confused you as to my actual position on the matter.

I know that crappy stuff is still made there, and I hate the mentality of the Chinese government.....specifically it's human rights abuses. Chinese people can be lovely.....but the mentality of the people in power horrifies me. So I make cynical comments about them, and products made in China ( which have sometimes been made in forced labour camps, by people who have been jailed for saying democratic things). Sure, mix-ups often have a simple basis. Just tone down your reaction, please. You must have been having a bad day. Ok....we're all only human.......

[isanb]

Boeing would love to do that too, but only politics and false patriotism forbid it.

And jack also

Edited June 28, 2009 by isanb

[jackdanielsesq]

Come on man, stay on topic - we are talking major air wreck here, not a couple Pintos in a fender-bender

BR>Jack

And do cars actually assembled in US manufacturing plants never have recalls?

[jackdanielsesq]

Sorry guys - missed the point here, or wasnt there one, as per usual??!!

BR>Jack

And jack also biggrin.gif

[scorecard]

Sorry guys - missed the point here, or wasnt there one, as per usual??!!

BR>Jack

And jack also biggrin.gif

Well Mr Jackdaniels you started the comments about 'have to be made in

Seattle', etc.

So cop the flack.

[LaoPo]

If the OP can't find any proper answers anymore he answers in one-liners.

Real backed facts are hard for him to find, if there are any...

He's a specialist in negative bashing and that's pathetic.

What he should try and do is buying a book:

"How do I become a positive person"

LaoPo

[isanb]

If the OP can't find any proper answers anymore he answers in one-liners.

Real backed facts are hard for him to find, if there are any...

He's a specialist in negative bashing and that's pathetic.

What he should try and do is buying a book:

"How do I become a positive person"

LaoPo

LaoPo

first we still do not know if he can read correctly

a book may be too much, what about a cartoon

[jackdanielsesq]

Guys und Gals

Been busy with some serious html, hope y'all missed me.

Dont know what caused the ruckus, but surely my opinion has scant bearing on the Airbus matter.

Opinions are a little like sphincters, we all have them. If ya wanna strip tidbits out of an an argument, so be it.

It dont change the material facts, nor perceptions & fears - which is kinda the nub here.

Simply making loud noises, badmouthing fact, trashing people & countries is hardly an argument based on merit.

It really smacks of 'methinks the lady doth protest too much'

Keep on rocking, Seattle!!

BR>Jack

[Carib]

Edit for remark. I think you could also have just a language /edeting/and quoting problem. Positive to you I mean. Mix ups do have a simple basis sometimes. Work on it.

Ok Carib, here's what I think happened in our little "misunderstanding", from an objective viewpoint : You expected me to state clearly my position : whether I think Airbuses are going to be as good as before (now they are made in China), or whether they will be worse. You indicate this by saying "but you do not seem to know how to write something, or to make it clear what you exactly mean to achieve by it". That's ok, but reality is not always black and white. My post you objected to was simply clarifying what everyone else had been saying.......that ALL degrees of quality are made in China. Though I did also state that my opinion was that good stuff is made by international companies, under supervision by their staff. This is, I believe, YOUR position on the matter.

I just threw a spanner in the works by making a flippant cynical remark about the first Airbus about to be test-flown.

This irritated and confused you as to my actual position on the matter.

I know that crappy stuff is still made there, and I hate the mentality of the Chinese government.....specifically it's human rights abuses. Chinese people can be lovely.....but the mentality of the people in power horrifies me. So I make cynical comments about them, and products made in China ( which have sometimes been made in forced labour camps, by people who have been jailed for saying democratic things). Sure, mix-ups often have a simple basis. Just tone down your reaction, please. You must have been having a bad day. Ok....we're all only human.......

Thank you Latindancer for clarifying your point of view. I really appreciate it.

You just as I do, seem to have a `drive` which is also fired by secondary issues which touch us, or which make our personal picture of a subject more complete / heavier / lighter.

Although not mentioned in the discussion, they are a part of the answer. For you, it is for a part human rights abuse, for me it is the perception of how people look at the aircraft industry as a whole, and sometimes just seem to blabber away. And yes I fell for the wrong remark.

We both reacted with those hidden messages also putting in weight, apart from the usual mix up which does occur in these discussions. I was a bit harsh, I am sorry for that. We have some differences, but at least we both have an opinion, and in hind site the differences are not worth the paper it is written on.

See you around on `whatever topic/subject`.

[isanb]

Been busy with some serious html, hope y'all missed me.

BR>Jack

H.T.M.L

Hot True Male Lover

[jackdanielsesq]

Thats all ya got?! Thats real bottom of the barrel, sexist drivel.

Frankly, I am little surprised. The other guys showed real class by comparison.

Shame on your pathetic, trashmouth.

BR>Jack

Hot True Male Lover

[isanb]

come on, jack : keep cool

since the beginning we don't have the same opinion.I cannot convice you

and you cannot convice me (drivel and trashmouth : you are not bad either).

As for the real class, i don't know you and you don't know me and it's not a

topic about airbus which's going to do much for that.

Was just trying to make some humour (and i know i didn't eat a clown when i was

young) cause now on this topic there not much we can do

As you certainly understood, i'm french and a lot of what you said could have hurt

me also but i have taken your comment as second degree.

So please do the same.

and even if i have no class, if what i said displease you I am able to apologize.

but jack, you like provoking people accept in return to be provoque

[LaoPo]

ignore the OP and let the thread fade away into the trashcan where it belongs.

LaoPo

[jackdanielsesq]

Not to carp on MIC, but if they cannot build a couple apartments without it all falling down, then I definitely

wont be flying their aircraft anytime soon. Take a look see.

BR>Jack

Shanghai probes building collapse

Officials in Shanghai are questioning nine people as part of an investigation into why a nearly finished apartment building collapsed on Saturday. The building at Shanghai's "Lotus Riverside" apartment complex toppled over almost intact, killing one worker. The developers had sold 489 of the 629 flats in the 13-storey building, and owners of the flats are now demanding refunds or compensation. The event has sparked worries about construction safety in China.

The building, one of 11 in a wider project, fell over early on Saturday when pillars that were supposed to be buried deep under the earth were uprooted.

[Tinkelbell]

If the OP can't find any proper answers anymore he answers in one-liners.

Real backed facts are hard for him to find, if there are any...

He's a specialist in negative bashing and that's pathetic.

What he should try and do is buying a book:

"How do I become a positive person"

LaoPo

LaoPo

first we still do not know if he can read correctly

a book may be too much, what about a cartoon

Now I know why......"Well Posted ThaiVisa Members Who Fled The Scene ?"

[Carib]

Not to carp on MIC, but if they cannot build a couple apartments without it all falling down, then I definitely

wont be flying their aircraft anytime soon. Take a look see.

BR>Jack

Shanghai probes building collapse

Officials in Shanghai are questioning nine people as part of an investigation into why a nearly finished apartment building collapsed on Saturday. The building at Shanghai's "Lotus Riverside" apartment complex toppled over almost intact, killing one worker. The developers had sold 489 of the 629 flats in the 13-storey building, and owners of the flats are now demanding refunds or compensation. The event has sparked worries about construction safety in China.

The building, one of 11 in a wider project, fell over early on Saturday when pillars that were supposed to be buried deep under the earth were uprooted.

Jack, you behave like one, so you should be treated like one too. And when you are in there, take a good look, because that too was made in China..

[yabaaaa]

Not to carp on MIC, but if they cannot build a couple apartments without it all falling down, then I definitely

wont be flying their aircraft anytime soon. Take a look see.

BR>Jack

Shanghai probes building collapse

Officials in Shanghai are questioning nine people as part of an investigation into why a nearly finished apartment building collapsed on Saturday. The building at Shanghai's "Lotus Riverside" apartment complex toppled over almost intact, killing one worker. The developers had sold 489 of the 629 flats in the 13-storey building, and owners of the flats are now demanding refunds or compensation. The event has sparked worries about construction safety in China.

The building, one of 11 in a wider project, fell over early on Saturday when pillars that were supposed to be buried deep under the earth were uprooted.

Might be worth seeing where your laptop/computer was made?

[jackdanielsesq]

A Yemen Airbus just crashed

BR>Jack

A Yemeni airliner with 153 people on board has crashed in the Indian Ocean near the Comoros archipelago.

"We don't know if there are any survivors," Comoros Vice-President Idi Nadhoim told Reuters news agency.

The Airbus 310 was operated by the Yemeni state carrier Yemenia Air, and flying from the Yemeni capital Sanaa.

[Datsun240Z]

They are going down by bushes! Bad economy -> Bad maintenance.

[LaoPo]

jackdanielsesq:

You are either AIRBUS or CHINA bashing, all the way. You are mixing your own topic with other disasters and that's pathetic.

Do you think the Moderators would accept it if we started a thread bashing upon America ? We could fill an entire Forum with bashing posts about America.

That would be so easy but also cheap you know.

I know for a fact that the Mods will (rightly so) not accept so.

So, STOP your pathetic bashing

If you don't want to fly Airbus, fine; you've mentioned that now many times. We know now. So go ahead with your life and grow up.

LaoPo

[jackdanielsesq]

Aparently the craft had previously been given a clean bill of health by Airbus. Seems there is even more confusion

amongst the airlines, let alone the folks who are being killed.

BR>Jack

PS Please check database for times

"The question we are asking... is whether you can collect people in a normal way on French territory and then put them in a plane that does not ensure their security. We do not want this to happen again." However, a spokesman for the airline said poor weather was more likely to have been a factor in the crash than the condition of the plane. Yemeni Transport Minister Khaled Ibrahim al-Wazeer also told Reuters that the plane had recently undergone a thorough inspection overseen by Airbus and conformed to international standards. The crash prompted the European Union to highlight its own concerns about Yemenia's safety record, proposing a world blacklist of those carriers deemed unsafe.

The EU already has its own list, and its transport commissioner, Antonio Tajani, said such a list would be a "safety guarantee for all". Another EU official told Reuters news agency there were concerns about the airline's "incomplete reporting procedure and incomplete follow-up" following 2007 tests on the aircraft that crashed, but that its record was improving.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8126576.stm

[jackdanielsesq]

Comores Airbus blackbox found - BBC - RSS

BR>Jack

[jackdanielsesq]

It has been called the 'most dangerous airline' in the world, yet France allowed its own citizens & wards, to be transshipped, onto a known defective plane. There were huge demonstrations in Marseilles & Paris, where protesters managed to keep 60 mainly French & French Yemeni passengers from boarding another Yemeni Aircraft.

BR>Jack

While airlines in developing nations are considered the most risky by regulators, some of the deadliest crashes happen with first-world carriers. The Air France crash on June 1 that killed 228 people involved a larger Airbus model, an A330-200. Indonesia, Democratic Republic of Congo and Swaziland are among more than 20 countries that don’t meet the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration’s safety standards. Those countries also have airlines on the EU’s banned list, created in 2006 with more than 90 carriers, mostly from Africa.

Young Survivor

Sources close to the Comoran rescue team say the only confirmed survivor, who has been named as Baya Bakari, was being treated in Moroni and her condition had improved. The Associated Press news agency quoted her father as saying she had been travelling with her mother to the Comoros from Paris to visit family. Kassim Bakari said she had been ejected from the plane when it came down and clung to debris for several hours until she was rescued. "She's a very timid girl, I never thought she would escape like that," he said, describing her as "fragile" and barely able to swim. He added that he was mourning the loss of his wife whilst overjoyed at his daughter's extraordinary escape. Doctors at the hospital said she had cuts to her face and a fractured collarbone, but was not in danger.

Angry Airport protest

France said the plane had been banned from its airspace. The French transport ministry had earlier said the Airbus 310 plane which crashed had been banned from France because of "irregularities". But Yemenia responded by criticising "false information and speculation about technical problems" on the plane. Several Comoran expatriates angry with what they see as the poor state of the company's aircraft tried to stop passengers from checking in for another Yemenia flight leaving Paris Charles de Gaulle airport for Sanaa. About 60 people failed to check in, reports said, but it was not clear how many did so as a result of the protest. The crash was the second involving an Airbus aircraft in recent weeks. On 1 June an Air France Airbus 330 travelling from Rio de Janeiro to Paris plunged into the Atlantic, killing all 228 people on board.

Banned_Airbus310.jpg

[Datsun240Z]

Lack of maintenance yes.

[jackdanielsesq]

Strangely one of the French? ministers attributed the wreck to 'definite weather' problems.

Is there a common thread here?

BR>Jack

[MrHammer]

I'm not going near any french airbus airliners thats for sure.

[isanb]

I'm not going near any french airbus airliners thats for sure.

The French transport ministry had earlier said the Airbus 310 plane which crashed had been banned from France because of "irregularities"

+

weather problems

+

Lack of maintenance

=

Crash

Mr Hammer, if you buy a superb american car, if you don't do the proper maintenance on it (change tires, brakes.......) are you going to blame the manufacturer of the car if you have an accident

By the way this plane was the property of ILFC (american company specialized in aircraf leasing located in Los Angeles)

[jackdanielsesq]

The French have reversed themselves - again - prolly an EPIRB

BR>Jack

A French government minister has reversed earlier claims that a "black box" recorder from a plane that crashed in the Indian Ocean has been found. French Minister for Co-operation Alain Joyandet said signals picked up by rescuers came from a distress beacon. Earlier, an official said fforts to retrieve one of the black box recorders would begin during the day. The plane, flying from the Yemeni capital Sanaa to the Comoros, came down in bad weather with 153 on board.