More Airbus Woes - Now Made In China!

[isanb]

Here come the jack

fasten your seat belt

jack you can provide me with a decoder, please

Edited June 24, 2009 by isanb

[jackdanielsesq]

Ya gotta be kidding moi ?! Thats rich, coming from this crowd !!

BR>Jack :D

If you tried to speak in plain english, it would be easier for us (non english speakers) to understand what you mean.

[Orac]

For those concerned about safety/quality in the Chinese Aerospace industry the attached link is from Boeing regarding their suppliers in China.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/news/2005...nr_050602g.html

[MJP]

. . . more European economy woes. Airbus is a major employer.

[isanb]

For those concerned about safety/quality in the Chinese Aerospace industry the attached link is from Boeing regarding their suppliers in China.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/news/2005...nr_050602g.html

don't put this kind of information in this topic please

Jack is going to have a heart attack if he learns that boeing have some chinese suppliers

[LaoPo]

For those concerned about safety/quality in the Chinese Aerospace industry the attached link is from Boeing regarding their suppliers in China.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/news/2005...nr_050602g.html

Thanks! That's an interesting message by Boeing and even from some 4 years ago.

"Today, (in 2005! - LP) more than 3,500 Boeing airplanes -- one third of Boeing's world fleet -- have major parts and assemblies built in China. Examples of major parts and assembliesod built for Boeing by the Chinese industry include the 737 horizontal stabilizer from Shanghai Aircraft Corporation, 737 vertical fin from Xian Aircraft Corporation and 737 tail section mules from Shenyang Aircraft Corporation.

Boeing is China 's largest commercial aviation partner. Over the next 20 years, Boeing forecasts that China will need 2,300 jetliners, becoming one of the world's largest airplane markets. Boeing has offered free training to more than 27,000 Chinese aviation professionals since 1993 including pilots, maintenance, flight operations, quality and manufacturing personnel, executives and managers."

I wonder HOW our friend Jack will know, looking at the outside of the plane, if the plane has Chinese spare parts or not....

Better don't fly anymore Jackdanielesq

LaoPo

[Carib]

For those concerned about safety/quality in the Chinese Aerospace industry the attached link is from Boeing regarding their suppliers in China.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/news/2005...nr_050602g.html

Thank you for that Orac, I didn't really want to be the one to do this since I already pointed out how and where the Boeing 787 as far as the main parts will be made.

It is hard to post these truth`s without immediately being called a US basher. The truth about nowadays manufacturing still seems to be hard to grasp for US nationals and by pointing that out to them, it is immediately seen as bashing.

I have said it before on this topic and will say it again: Boeing and other US firms have been bullshitting the public for a very very long time already about their products being `homemade`.

It seems to hurt the national pride and patriotic feelings. This attitude is one of covering up things, not to let the public know about how things really are.

If any country has ever tried to be dominant in various ways, and by doing so sawing globalisation, it has been the US.

But when acting "globalised" there still feel the need to deny that things are not real american.

You cannot have it both ways, the forces behind the dwindling US industry know that, act accordingly, but hush up...

[skippybangkok]

Ya gotta be kidding moi ?! Thats rich, coming from this crowd !!

BR>Jack :D

If you tried to speak in plain english, it would be easier for us (non english speakers) to understand what you mean.

Who knows, maybe Airbus denied him a job or something, and is pissed off ever since.

[isanb]

Ya gotta be kidding moi ?! Thats rich, coming from this crowd !!

BR>Jack

If you tried to speak in plain english, it would be easier for us (non english speakers) to understand what you mean.

Who knows, maybe Airbus denied him a job or something, and is pissed off ever since.

airbus always need people like him for crash test

[skippybangkok]

airbus always need people like him for crash test

Nah, head to thick, not representative of the normal population.

[Datsun240Z]

Nice they moved the production that way, another steps forward for the East, another step backwars for the West.

[nonthaburial]

Just a little bit more. The first China built A320 is scheduled for its first commercial flight today

[Latindancer]

Just a little bit more. The first China built A320 is scheduled for its first commercial flight today

Oh.....this is going to be good ! But I wonder what it'll be like when a little fatigue sets in?

Ok.....lets separate the issues :

.......Some products are bought by Western companies from "tin pot" Chinese companies are complete garbage.

........Some products are MADE by Western companies in China and the quality is as high as in the West, because the company has it's own staff supervising the poorly-paid workers. Sometimes they do a good job, sometimes not. Though I suspect that mostly they do, if they "stand over" the workers enough. Sony make things in China, and they want to keep their reputation.

...........Some products are bought by Western companies from Chinese companies who have sold them good quality things in the past, and they think this is going to continue......but the manager has decided to occasionally cut corners and use crappy materials......

Why do people insist on arguing that only ONE of these scenarios....THEIR version of reality...... is correct ?

Sometimes being in this forum is like being in a bar where people get more pig-headed as they drink more.

ALL these scenarios happen.......

[Pierrot]

40 years ago we use to make fun of the products made in Japan

20 years ago they teach us what quality in manufacturing means

Nowadays Japan stand for top notch quality (when buying a TV, computer or other electronic appliances, people pay a premium for products made in Japan, not in Europe or the USA)

If you want a glimpse of what the future will bring us, just have a look at the last name of some of the "american" top scientist, most of them are from China or India, and the remaining from East Europe.

Edited June 25, 2009 by Pierrot

[Tinkelbell]

Quoted from 'latindancer'........

Chinese companies who ha.......Some products are bought by Western companies from "tin pot" Chinese companies are complete garbage.

........Some products are MADE by Western companies in China and the quality is as high as in the West, because the company has it's own staff supervising the poorly-paid workers. Sometimes they do a good job, sometimes not. Though I suspect that mostly they do, if they "stand over" the workers enough. Sony make things in China, and they want to keep their reputation.

...........Some products are bought by Western companies from ve sold them good quality things in the past, and they think this is going to continue......but the manager has decided to occasionally cut corners and use crappy materials......

.......................................................................

You said it best.

Totally agree!

[LaoPo]

40 years ago we use to make fun of the products made in Japan

20 years ago they teach us what quality in manufacturing means

Nowadays Japan stand for top notch quality (when buying a TV, computer or other electronic appliances, people pay a premium for products made in Japan, not in Europe or the USA)

If you want a glimpse of what the future will bring us, just have a look at the last name of some of the "american" top scientist, most of them are from China or India, and the remaining from East Europe.

I agree. Many people seem to forget how huge India and China are.

As an example: every year, more than 6 million (!) students graduate from top universities in China alone.

It's extremely....extremely difficult for a Chinese student to even get access to any mainland university. They have long waiting lists and only the best students will make it. The exams to get access are very very tough.

Just think of it.......6 million graduated students - per year !

Next to that many students speak, or are studying, English. The average student in China realizes that his/her parents worked very hard to let them study and will do everything possible to show them they can succeed.

Most of them don't drink any alcohol and don't smoke, unlike many of their western counterpart-students.

LaoPo

[jackdanielsesq]

Indeed - it boggles the mind - nobody speaks/comprehends English

All that good plastic milk gone to waste. Plastic Protein... OMG!!

All that fine lead/led/red paint on all those silly little child toys or was it on an Airbus?

Gee ... lets see if we glued that wing-tip on correctly or did we use a cheap Chinese fastener and not the more expensive German one that we seem to have so many of?!

No matter - we will sell them to someone for more money - the stupid Caucasians wont know the difference.

Hey Kim, anyone speak any English here?

Need to interpret some EADS blueprint software instructions from the stupid French HQ?

Mil-spec ?? Whats that? Oh Milk Spec? Gotcha. Fixed that last year already.

Test flight tomorrow?! What?! Me?! Ya Kidding right!! I'm never going up in that thing - I only fly American!!

BR>Jack

Just think of it.......6 million graduated students - per year !

[dizbukhapeter]

It used to be "if it ain't Boeing, I ain't going". But times are a changing. Boeing uses Chinese produced landing gears and other essential structural components, they've been doing this for the past fifteen years. Chances are, the last Airbus, Boeing, or Embraer you flew on, landed on Chinese produced landing gears and was held together by Chinese produced airframe components. The Chinese have a good track record in terms of aviation engineering. They have a fairly long history of producing their own aircraft and are major contractors for the large western firms. If Chinese produced aircraft and components weren't safe, they wouldn't be flying, the aviation industry is no joke about that stuff. Rest assured that Airbus and Boeing run companies are stringent about the quality of their products in their Chinese factories.

Edited June 26, 2009 by dizbukhapeter

[Latindancer]

The Chinese aren't the only people on earth to mess things up.

Chech out what happened to THIS airbus ! ( Attached file )

Etihad was scheduled to take possession of a brand new Airbus 340-66.

What usually happens is they go to Toulouse in France a week before hand-over of the aircraft. Tests are run by Airbus and Etihad engineers and then the plane is handed over (even with a full tank of gas!).

However, last week Airbus were testing our new aircraft, they were scheduled to do some engine tests. So they put the brakes on, turn up the engines and test them (while the aircraft is stationary). However, someone didn't do their job right and the aircraft 'took off'.

The attached PDF shows the result. Basically the aircraft took off into a wall.

The cost of the 'cock-up', around $US 100,000,000. The aircraft is a write-off !!

Now what do you say if you are the guy who forgot the brakes, or forgot to check the brakes ?

I assume someone was in the cockpit ! You know that feeling you get immediately before a car accident when you know it's inevitable and that it's going to be VERY EXPENSIVE ? They must've had that in a big way. And in the minutes after, too, when their brains were trying to avoid accepting the reality. And the next morning, in the same way as after car crashes, when you wake up and look out the window, hoping it was all a dream.......

I have attached these photos as a PDF file, but in case that doesn't work, go to :

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthrea...=bad+day+airbus

Hmmm......it seems that this site doesn't accept downloaded PDF files.....I can't seem to get it to work.

Can some kind person possibly copy these photos from the website's PDF file and post them here ? I don't know how to.

This site has been down a lot lately in the middle of the day, and people clicking on the link may miss out on these astonishing pics.

I'm sure that when you see them, you will agree that they are real doozies, and spot on for this thread !

bad_day_at_a_Airbus.pdf

Edited June 26, 2009 by Latindancer

[Carib]

The Chinese aren't the only people on earth to mess things up.

Chech out what happened to THIS airbus ! ( Attached file )

Etihad was scheduled to take possession of a brand new Airbus 340-66.

What usually happens is they go to Toulouse in France a week before hand-over of the aircraft. Tests are run by Airbus and Etihad engineers and then the plane is handed over (even with a full tank of gas!).

However, last week Airbus were testing our new aircraft, they were scheduled to do some engine tests. So they put the brakes on, turn up the engines and test them (while the aircraft is stationary). However, someone didn't do their job right and the aircraft 'took off'.

The attached PDF shows the result. Basically the aircraft took off into a wall.

The cost of the 'cock-up', around $US 100,000,000. The aircraft is a write-off !!

Now what do you say if you are the guy who forgot the brakes, or forgot to check the brakes ?

I assume someone was in the cockpit ! You know that feeling you get immediately before a car accident when you know it's inevitable and that it's going to be VERY EXPENSIVE ? They must've had that in a big way. And in the minutes after, too, when their brains were trying to avoid accepting the reality. And the next morning, in the same way as after car crashes, when you wake up and look out the window, hoping it was all a dream.......

I have attached these photos as a PDF file, but in case that doesn't work, go to :

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthrea...=bad+day+airbus

Latin dancer, get your facts straight, about how it happened, when it happened and by who. You don't know shit about aircraft, your few pathetic postings have made that clear.

Also look into the airbus way of building aircraft in Europe, and than take look at the Chinese way, come back here and tell the difference.

This whole thing you are trying to do can be wiped of the slate by just one remark. : IF the Chinese airbus is of lesser or even dangerous quality, why did the FAA certify the plane.

IF Chinese aircraft parts and their quality standards are so low, I will expect to see a copy of a mail from you to the FAA/NTSB asking them to ground all Boeing planes, since the Chinese parts used in them are to many to even start counting.

All Boeing's must be in the red zone according to you, so act upon that !

Just stop this stupid unsubstantiated rambling.

[Latindancer]

The Chinese aren't the only people on earth to mess things up.

Chech out what happened to THIS airbus ! ( Attached file )

Etihad was scheduled to take possession of a brand new Airbus 340-66.

What usually happens is they go to Toulouse in France a week before hand-over of the aircraft. Tests are run by Airbus and Etihad engineers and then the plane is handed over (even with a full tank of gas!).

However, last week Airbus were testing our new aircraft, they were scheduled to do some engine tests. So they put the brakes on, turn up the engines and test them (while the aircraft is stationary). However, someone didn't do their job right and the aircraft 'took off'.

The attached PDF shows the result. Basically the aircraft took off into a wall.

The cost of the 'cock-up', around $US 100,000,000. The aircraft is a write-off !!

Now what do you say if you are the guy who forgot the brakes, or forgot to check the brakes ?

I assume someone was in the cockpit ! You know that feeling you get immediately before a car accident when you know it's inevitable and that it's going to be VERY EXPENSIVE ? They must've had that in a big way. And in the minutes after, too, when their brains were trying to avoid accepting the reality. And the next morning, in the same way as after car crashes, when you wake up and look out the window, hoping it was all a dream.......

I have attached these photos as a PDF file, but in case that doesn't work, go to :

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthrea...=bad+day+airbus

Latin dancer, get your facts straight, about how it happened, when it happened and by who. You don't know shit about aircraft, your few pathetic postings have made that clear.

Also look into the airbus way of building aircraft in Europe, and than take look at the Chinese way, come back here and tell the difference.

This whole thing you are trying to do can be wiped of the slate by just one remark. : IF the Chinese airbus is of lesser or even dangerous quality, why did the FAA certify the plane.

IF Chinese aircraft parts and their quality standards are so low, I will expect to see a copy of a mail from you to the FAA/NTSB asking them to ground all Boeing planes, since the Chinese parts used in them are to many to even start counting.

All Boeing's must be in the red zone according to you, so act upon that !

Just stop this stupid unsubstantiated rambling.

Now I know why some people who have posted on Thaivisa leave, never to post again. They expect support, cameraderie, help and good cheer. And sometimes they get this, but have to "run the gauntlet" of mentally or emotionally unstable members "flaming" them on the way.

Carib : read my 3 posts. The last ( about Etihad testing an Airbus in France ) happened on 15 November 2007. Google it.

My first two posts don't say what you claim they say at ALL ! I am quite plainly taking a position of there being SOME crappy things made in China, and some GOOD things......made by international companies. I say it quite clearly. Please take the trouble of at least concentrating when you are reading someone's posts before you start to insult them.

Your statement that I should stop my "stupid unsubstantiated rambling" is ludicrous. You are projecting on to me what you yourself are doing ! You tell me to "get my facts straight", but you haven't even bothered to read my posts. I have said that the standards in China are comparable to the West, not less than....as you seem to think I said.

In fact I said "Although there are many crappy-quality things made in China in locally-owned factories, when a huge multinational company moves in, they bring their own experts who constantly supervise every stage of production and quality of raw materials." Are you getting my posts confused with those of another member ?

Lastly, I don't claim to know anything about aircraft, but I do know how to treat people with simple good manners on a forum like this. Your post is quite over the top. Take a look at what I've actually said in my first 2 posts. I've affirmed that multinationals make good-quality stuff in China.

I did however throw in one flippant comment in response to the announcement that the first China built A320 was scheduled for its first commercial flight.

I said "Oh.....this is going to be good ! But I wonder what it'll be like when a little fatigue sets in?"

Haven't you ever seen/heard someone throw in one flippant comment in the negative after saying so much in the positive ?

Edited June 26, 2009 by Latindancer

[jackdanielsesq]

It might simply be latent ADD.

BR>Jack

[Latindancer]

Just a little bit more. The first China built A320 is scheduled for its first commercial flight today

Oh.....this is going to be good ! But I wonder what it'll be like when a little fatigue sets in?

Ok.....lets separate the issues :

.......Some products are bought by Western companies from "tin pot" Chinese companies are complete garbage.

........Some products are MADE by Western companies in China and the quality is as high as in the West, because the company has it's own staff supervising the poorly-paid workers. Sometimes they do a good job, sometimes not. Though I suspect that mostly they do, if they "stand over" the workers enough. Sony make things in China, and they want to keep their reputation.

...........Some products are bought by Western companies from Chinese companies who have sold them good quality things in the past, and they think this is going to continue......but the manager has decided to occasionally cut corners and use crappy materials......

Why do people insist on arguing that only ONE of these scenarios....THEIR version of reality...... is correct ?

Sometimes being in this forum is like being in a bar where people get more pig-headed as they drink more.

ALL these scenarios happen.......

Perhaps my comment in the this last paragraph of a previous post struck a little too close to the mark, though it was not aimed in his direction.....it was a general comment about a FEW people .....also the head-butting in other threads.

So he decided to put words in my mouth and head-butt me in return....?

[isanb]

Indeed - it boggles the mind - nobody speaks/comprehends English

All that good plastic milk gone to waste. Plastic Protein... OMG!!

All that fine lead/led/red paint on all those silly little child toys or was it on an Airbus?

Gee ... lets see if we glued that wing-tip on correctly or did we use a cheap Chinese fastener and not the more expensive German one that we seem to have so many of?!

No matter - we will sell them to someone for more money - the stupid Caucasians wont know the difference.

Hey Kim, anyone speak any English here?

Need to interpret some EADS blueprint software instructions from the stupid French HQ?

Mil-spec ?? Whats that? Oh Milk Spec? Gotcha. Fixed that last year already.

Test flight tomorrow?! What?! Me?! Ya Kidding right!! I'm never going up in that thing - I only fly American!!

BR>Jack

Just think of it.......6 million graduated students - per year !

hey jack "the sexy man" daniel.

I think you can do better than that !!!!

[jackdanielsesq]

I wouldnt sweat it too much - a lot of it is personal wind-up, simply emotional outbursts that have little or no relevance.

One often encounters that sort of reaction to technical queries or Q&A. Nothing cognitive, plenty badmouthing.

Everyone understand the China Syndrome - especially the aircraft industry, who, for the most part, have exemplary

track records. The rub (OP) being Airbus/AirFrance timing to market with an 'el-cheapo' assembled model.

Be interesting to see if they will perform another 'wall' brake test also. Betting hall to the left, please.

I dont believe there would be any contest if one were to query the general flying public, as to which craft they would prefer not to fly in. It would not be US/EU assembly, thats for sure. Once they start China GT assembly, its all over, methinks.

Remember the Brits early flying misadventures?!

BR>Jack

PS Why are we doing this anyway?! Surely not because of cheap labor?!

[Carib]

The Chinese aren't the only people on earth to mess things up.

Chech out what happened to THIS airbus ! ( Attached file )

Etihad was scheduled to take possession of a brand new Airbus 340-66.

What usually happens is they go to Toulouse in France a week before hand-over of the aircraft. Tests are run by Airbus and Etihad engineers and then the plane is handed over (even with a full tank of gas!).

However, last week Airbus were testing our new aircraft, they were scheduled to do some engine tests. So they put the brakes on, turn up the engines and test them (while the aircraft is stationary). However, someone didn't do their job right and the aircraft 'took off'.

The attached PDF shows the result. Basically the aircraft took off into a wall.

The cost of the 'cock-up', around $US 100,000,000. The aircraft is a write-off !!

Now what do you say if you are the guy who forgot the brakes, or forgot to check the brakes ?

I assume someone was in the cockpit ! You know that feeling you get immediately before a car accident when you know it's inevitable and that it's going to be VERY EXPENSIVE ? They must've had that in a big way. And in the minutes after, too, when their brains were trying to avoid accepting the reality. And the next morning, in the same way as after car crashes, when you wake up and look out the window, hoping it was all a dream.......

I have attached these photos as a PDF file, but in case that doesn't work, go to :

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthrea...=bad+day+airbus

Latin dancer, get your facts straight, about how it happened, when it happened and by who. You don't know shit about aircraft, your few pathetic postings have made that clear.

Also look into the airbus way of building aircraft in Europe, and than take look at the Chinese way, come back here and tell the difference.

This whole thing you are trying to do can be wiped of the slate by just one remark. : IF the Chinese airbus is of lesser or even dangerous quality, why did the FAA certify the plane.

IF Chinese aircraft parts and their quality standards are so low, I will expect to see a copy of a mail from you to the FAA/NTSB asking them to ground all Boeing planes, since the Chinese parts used in them are to many to even start counting.

All Boeing's must be in the red zone according to you, so act upon that !

Just stop this stupid unsubstantiated rambling.

Now I know why some people who have posted on Thaivisa leave, never to post again. They expect support, cameraderie, help and good cheer. And sometimes they get this, but have to "run the gauntlet" of mentally or emotionally unstable members "flaming" them on the way.

Carib : read my 3 posts. The last ( about Etihad testing an Airbus in France ) happened on 15 November 2007. Google it.

My first two posts don't say what you claim they say at ALL ! I am quite plainly taking a position of there being SOME crappy things made in China, and some GOOD things......made by international companies. I say it quite clearly. Please take the trouble of at least concentrating when you are reading someone's posts before you start to insult them.

Your statement that I should stop my "stupid unsubstantiated rambling" is ludicrous. You are projecting on to me what you yourself are doing ! You tell me to "get my facts straight", but you haven't even bothered to read my posts. I have said that the standards in China are comparable to the West, not less than....as you seem to think I said.

In fact I said "Although there are many crappy-quality things made in China in locally-owned factories, when a huge multinational company moves in, they bring their own experts who constantly supervise every stage of production and quality of raw materials." Are you getting my posts confused with those of another member ?

Lastly, I don't claim to know anything about aircraft, but I do know how to treat people with simple good manners on a forum like this. Your post is quite over the top. Take a look at what I've actually said in my first 2 posts. I've affirmed that multinationals make good-quality stuff in China.

I did however throw in one flippant comment in response to the announcement that the first China built A320 was scheduled for its first commercial flight.

I said "Oh.....this is going to be good ! But I wonder what it'll be like when a little fatigue sets in?"

Haven't you ever seen/heard someone throw in one flippant comment in the negative after saying so much in the positive ?

You are right Latindancer, I did reacted to the general gist of your last post only.

Glanced over it and thought it was a high school journal and reacted accordingly. High school journals or tabloids tend to drag in unrelated incidents, to prove `something`and the general gist of your posting looked like that to me.

You start with: "The Chinese aren't the only people on earth to mess things up. Check out what happened to THIS airbus " ( Attached file ).

In other words: The Chinese do screw up, and so does airbus. Because that is what you are saying, right or wrong?

What do you expect, you bring up a more or less sensational sounding subject, and now you blame me for not going through your previous posts to debunk it again. Sorry, but that is a bit far fetched.

The incident has got nothing to do with quality of airbus aircraft wherever they are built, nor any other manufactures by the way. It was a big time screw up by guys who thought they knew it all.

I may be mentally and emotionally instable and flaming you, as you so kindly put it, but you do not seem to know how to write something, or to make it clear what you exactly mean to achieve by it, without now contradicting yourself or needing the reference to previous postings.

Each posting is a new one, do not expect me or others to go through your previous ones just to see if you really mean what it says in the last one, sorry but it doesn't work that way.

Regards

[Carib]

I wouldnt sweat it too much - a lot of it is personal wind-up, simply emotional outbursts that have little or no relevance.

One often encounters that sort of reaction to technical queries or Q&A. Nothing cognitive, plenty badmouthing.

Everyone understand the China Syndrome - especially the aircraft industry, who, for the most part, have exemplary

track records. The rub (OP) being Airbus/AirFrance timing to market with an 'el-cheapo' assembled model.

Be interesting to see if they will perform another 'wall' brake test also. Betting hall to the left, please.

I dont believe there would be any contest if one were to query the general flying public, as to which craft they would prefer not to fly in. It would not be US/EU assembly, thats for sure. Once they start China GT assembly, its all over, methinks.

Remember the Brits early flying misadventures?!

BR>Jack

PS Why are we doing this anyway?! Surely not because of cheap labor?!

Hahaha, yes, you should know about the windup thing Jack, well not falling for it . Have one on me !

[LaoPo]

PS Why are we doing this anyway?! Surely not because of cheap labor?!

Don't ask here; ask Boeing...ask Airbus.

You're indeed suffering from a China syndrome and obviously you've never been to China, otherwise you wouldn't be talking such nonsense.

And, like you said: "I only fly American" you better start hiding under a rock in the desert. Make sure you find an American rock...you never can tell these days .....if the plane and rock are 100% American

LaoPo

[Latindancer]

I wouldnt sweat it too much - a lot of it is personal wind-up, simply emotional outbursts that have little or no relevance.

(quote)

Ok....I won't sweat the small stuff too much.

Yes....the Chinese screw up, and so does Airbus.....or it's employees/mechanics. We're all only human. We ALL screw up sometimes. Wasn't it one of the first Airbuses that suddenly went into reverse thrust over Thailand in the middle of the nineties, and crashed ? Owned my Nicki Lauda ? And it will be very interesting to see what is revealed if the Air France black box is recovered from the Atlantic. Spaceships fail to function often ! Nothing is perfect....Murphy's Law rules often, unfortunately. This is just being realistic.

By the way, as it as an amusing incident, here are 2 of the Etihad crash photos again, in a different format, as attachments. Just imagine having been in the cabin ! Notice the ladder in the second pic !

Edited June 26, 2009 by Latindancer

[nonthaburial]

Found something of interest. I use Elong the online Chinese travel agency (who by the way are very good) go to their site and look at any domestic flight. Just recently they have started to announce the make/model of aircraft used on the route you are wanting.

I wonder why they would do that if the general mass chinese travellers didnt care a hoot for the aircraft they would be sitting in. Maybe the times are a changing