Thong Lor Police

[smylz]

Hi all,

I am posting here for some advice.

Last night, after a few drinks with friends, I made a bad decision to go about 50 metres the wrong way up the road to get to the previous soi to go home, when I should have gone the right way and waited for a U-turn sign.

As I did this, 2 BiBs drove past me on their bike and ofcourse followed me to stop.

The "P" of the 2 got off the bike accusing me of trying to aim for his bike and kill him. I admitted what I did was wrong, but in no way was I trying to kill him etc.

This is isn't the first time I have had a BiB shakedown, so I was polite, patient and waited for the inevitable "tea" money donation, but he wouldn't accept anything less than me admitting I tried to kill him.

He called his captain and they drove me to Thong Lor police station.

I was taken to a room and accused of being drunk and trying to kill him and they wanted me to sign their statement.

As I had just finished my last beer when they stopped me, I blew into the machine and was over the limit.

I refused (all the time being polite and patient) because it was only a traffic violation and I can't read Thai to know exactly what he is accusing me of.

I know this is the part where everyone will think I deserved what I got, and that is ok if you do, the truth is, I wasn't drunk, but had had my last beer within 20 minutes of the breathalizer machine, a total of 5 beers for the night.

In my country, the police have to take into account a few scientific facts, being sex, weight and time of last drink before they can accurately measure your alcohol intake. I tried to ask them if that was the same case in Thailand because I genuinally don't know. They said no to any questions I asked, it doesnt matter, I have to use the breathalizer.

In the mean time, some friends had come to help me out (1 being a respected thai business woman) to talk about it and translate for me. But we weren't allowed to read the statement and if I wouldn't sign it, she would have to give her ID card and sign the statement to say that she translated it and I understood otherwise they would lock me up until the court date. Again I refused to sign it and told my friend not to sign anything because we don't know what I am admitting to, (though at this point, he said I wasn't trying to kill him, but still couldn't see the statement).

I asked to see the Thai law book and show me how a this road violation was a crime punishable by being put in prison until court and paying 40,000 baht bail money. They said they didn't have a book of law there and if I wanted to see it i would have to go to the internet and look myself.

(I did asked sheepishly if they would let me go now to research it - the respectively declined)

Finally, they did have a law book handy in Thai for my friend to read, and apparently it said what I had done was illegal, which I never denied. Then I asked when the book was published/updated and if their new laws of using the breathalizer machine were stated in that book, and if not, to see the actual law guidelines of how the police were to use the machine (again my point being they should have waited to test me, not straight away).

At that point I had 6 or 7 police around me pressuring me to sign it, telling my friend they won't talk about it anymore, if I dont sign it and/or pay the bail money, I was to be locked up until the court date and then I can argue the law and get my bail money back then, if I win.

We didnt sign anything and so they locked me up. They told me to take off my shoes, belt and possessions, not told anything about how long or anything at all, and sent me to the cell.

A few hours later, my friends came back, and I was released. Apparently, the arresting officer was ok to accept 7000 baht as a sorry for trying to kill him, so they just paid him and now I am posting here.

I am not a crusader for rights over here, I get the basic drift that to live here, the BiB's are just a way of life and we all do our best to avoid them at all costs. Occasionally they are going to do this exact thing and, again, im not trying to change how things are, but I would like to know other peoples opinion on what happened and people who know the Thai law to please tell me if what I did by refusing to sign things was just foolish or the right thing to do at that moment.

A friend of mine was punched by a group of policemen a few weeks back on Petchaburi Rd because he had all the right paperwork/licence etc and also knew his rights, so when they couldn't charge him, they attacked him. My friend took it a lot further and made official complaints (which was followed by deaththreats by the police to him and his gf) but regardless, he got a public appology from those officers and moneys returned.

In my case is it worth pursuing with a complaint? I know I have no evidence of the night except that I was their to experience it.

I am ok to let it go, but again that is what I am asking other TV peoples opinion and to hear other experiences.

Thanks all for listening.

[anothertorres]

oh-hoh, tough night, eh? i'm guessing you're thinking it's probably easier to call it a loss and a good story to tell your friends back home. and, i think you might be right.

[TexasRanger]

Well, you know you fcuked up big time by drinking and driving and going the wrong way up a street but you can't win here and you know it.

Leave it. What possible good can come from shaking the tree further? Consider the money paid your fine for doing a dumb thing, learn from that and stay safe.

[webfact]

You had good luck! Only 7K. They could have asked for more...

In the "west" a court of law must prove you are guilty beyond doubts - in this country

you must prove to the court that you are not guilty. Take it as an advise: keep quiet

and no further action. Otherwise you are going to lose.

/added word

Edited June 28, 2009 by webfact

[smylz]

Thanks for the replies. I dont want to pursue it, i am ok to let it go, pride and principle mean nothing here.

I am always try to build up my experience bank for living here, so good or bad comments about what happened are appreciated.

Do you think me asking for those things (law and translation etc ) was a bad idea? i mean i didnt have 40,000 to give them, so i figured it was my only shot to ask for thos things and in the end, give them what i could to be let go.

[ukrules]

There appears to be more and more reports of this kind of corruption by the police coming in these days.

[TerryLH]

What are you going to complain about? That you got caught driving the wrong way after consuming enough beer to put you over the limit? That you didn't understand them?

I don't know where you come from, but I don't know of anyplace that gives you a 'time out' before they give you a blood alcohol test.

You were right not signing something you didn't understand.

They were within their rights to keep you because you didn't sign. Since you don't know what it was, it's hard to comment on it, but it could have simply been a 'promise to appear', AKA ticket, to take care of the case in court.

[metisdead]

Thanks for the replies. I dont want to pursue it, i am ok to let it go, pride and principle mean nothing here.

I am always try to build up my experience bank for living here, so good or bad comments about what happened are appreciated.

Do you think me asking for those things (law and translation etc ) was a bad idea? i mean i didnt have 40,000 to give them, so i figured it was my only shot to ask for thos things and in the end, give them what i could to be let go.

I don't think that was a bad thing, (asking for the translations, etc.) main thing is you don't sound like you got carried away and made a scene. One other thing to consider, and you'll have to work out the logistics yourself, if you're planning on having a drink or 3, leave the car parked, taxi is cheaper. (my car stays home if I'm thinking of drinking somewhere).

[slapout]

And it seems the reports of this type of harassment seem to increase when international/national attention is brought to the front on similar threads. Without third party,friend and police interview I will remain skeptical.

[trogers]

Now you know why I do not stay in Thonglor.

[TheLaughingMan]

The Thonglor police are particularly evil, I and several friends have all had horrible extortion or threat experiences with them. Not to mention the many threads on this board about the very same police station.

[Pierrot]

There appears to be more and more reports of this kind of corruption by the police coming in these days.

That what I was thinking. Less than 10 posts, an unbelievable story, a few hours of fame on top of the list of the general forum of TV, then get banned.

It's not easy to be a troll these days.

[HagenvonTronje]

I know this is the part where everyone will think I deserved what I got, and that is ok if you do, the truth is, I wasn't drunk, but had had my last beer within 20 minutes of the breathalizer machine, a total of 5 beers for the night.

[JohnGotti]

Driving the wrong way on the street drunk... I pity you dude.

[Mobi]

There appears to be more and more reports of this kind of corruption by the police coming in these days.

Farangs are becoming more and more their targets. They don't speak Thai, don't understand the law, are terrified of ending up in jail, even more than Thais are, and of course, most importantly - are perceived to have more money to pay them off.

Time was, in the dim and distant past, that farangs were never hassled by the cops, in fact we were all treated with the utmost respect. But those days are long gone, and the word has got around amongst the Mafia BIB that we are an easy and rich mark. Few of us, if any , have any real friends of "influence" that can come to our aid, unlike rich Thais, who will always know someone who knows someone.

As for Thong Lor being notoriously corrupt, it may well be, but wherever you are in Thailand you must be prepared for this kind of thing happening. I have heard of farangs being unjustly shaken down from Nong Kai, to Chiang Mai to Pattaya to Phuket. They are are the same everywhere, so beware.

To the OP, you were very lucky to get away with 7K. You weren't wrong to question the law with them.. that may have even helped your situation, as they could see you might be a trouble later on. But then again, they could have just made you "commit suicide" if you upset them too much. It's a fine line. If you had been placed in a remand prison, some are so bad, that many farangs get very ill and some even die.

Edited June 28, 2009 by Mobi

[TheLaughingMan]

There appears to be more and more reports of this kind of corruption by the police coming in these days.

That what I was thinking. Less than 10 posts, an unbelievable story, a few hours of fame on top of the list of the general forum of TV, then get banned.

It's not easy to be a troll these days.

If its easier for you to disbelieve all the ill and unjust happenings to falangs here then so be it, whatever keeps you happy, with your head in the sand.

[isanb]

Move on to other things and the next time you want to drink, take a taxi.

you are really lucky on this one

[Scott]

How smart someone is seems to be measured by how quickly they can learn a lesson. I only had to have one lesson (and got by very lucky). Here's what I learned:

1. Don't drive after drinking (I now never even have a swallow of beer if I am driving.) Taxi's are pretty cheap.

2. Follow the traffic rules as you should, not as you want.

3. If you break rule # 1 don't break rule # 2.

[JohnGotti]

What was your mindset when you were driving drunk on the wrong side of the road? Was it something like, "Well, if I get stopped I know the consequences will be minor! Haha! I would never do this backhome, but in Thailand I can buy my way out of it"... Cause, while that would not excuse the cop from trying to say you tried to kill him, it would help us understand the nature of the cop and yourself, two pees in a pod.

[Datsun240Z]

Just wave around with this one, they will go away

Edited June 28, 2009 by Datsun240Z

[smylz]

Thanks for the dad speech from some people.

im not looking for your pity, forgiveness or anything, i never said or implied that.

If some think i am a troll, arent you just fueling the fire of something you dislike by responding to the post?

i merely asked for other peoples experiences and if asking to see the law is within my rights.

so again, im ok with anyones comments, good or bad, if you feel you have to make your judgements (non constructive or off topic), that is fine too, thatis what forums are for and i leave myself open to them.

im not suprised the claws come out from some people, thats the nature of the world full of perfect people right?

[TheLaughingMan]

What was your mindset when you were driving drunk on the wrong side of the road? Was it something like, "Well, if I get stopped I know the consequences will be minor! Haha! I would never do this backhome, but in Thailand I can buy my way out of it"... Cause, while that would not excuse the cop from trying to say you tried to kill him, it would help us understand the nature of the cop and yourself, two pees in a pod.

His mindset was probably derived from watching Thai men do the same or much worse on motorbikes and never get called on it. The lack of law here makes people do foolish and dangerous things, why every day I ride on the back of some insane motorcycle taxis bike without a helmet. Its just luck I don't get killed but I don't stop using the same service every day. Just a matter of time.

[Mobi]

His mindset was probably derived from watching Thai men do the same or much worse on motorbikes and never get called on it. The lack of law here makes people do foolish and dangerous things, why every day I ride on the back of some insane motorcycle taxis bike without a helmet. Its just luck I don't get killed but I don't stop using the same service every day. Just a matter of time.

It's not only motorbikes. there are plenty of cars, pick-ups and trucks who also blatantly drive down the wrong side of roads.

I just did a round trip to Sa Kaeo today, a round trip distance of around 400 kms, and I must have seen at least a dozen 4 wheeled vehicles driving down the wrong side of the road. OK, most of them drive along the hard verge at the left hand side of the road, still dangerous but we are kind of used to it. But then you get them driving against the traffic on the right hand side of the road - the MIDDLE OF THE ROAD. I encountered several today, and one was driving so dangerously that I flashed my head lights at him non stop and he panicked and ended up in a hole in the centre of the road between the four lanes.! I laughed my head off and hoped he had learnt a lesson, but I doubt it.

As far as the OP is concerned, yes he shouldn't have broken the law, but come on - he was accused of attempted murder!

Those who have been here a while you will know that you don't have to do anything wrong at all to be on the bad end of police extortion. Where the police may use a minor infringement as the basis of the scam , it is by no means a prerequisite. Anything from planting drugs, to inventing traffic misdemeanours to scamming motorcyclists in Pattaya for having a girl friend on the back with no helmet, when they were driving solo, but the girl,i n league with the police, jumps on the bike when the driver slows to turn the corner, and the cop is waiting, ready to pounce.

I was once done in Bangkok by a cop who told me my licence plate was too small. I knew he was talking rubbish, but paid up anyway. The next time I paid the annual tax, I asked the official at the traffic depot if there was anything wrong with the size of my number plate, as I would change it if there was. He assured me it was completely the right size and cop must have been deluded (or corrupt!)

So let's not start blaming farangs for these evil bastards. Yes it is wise advice to stay within the law, but we all make mistakes from time to time, and that doesn't excuse a system that is so corrupt that these days no farang is safe from their clutches.

Edited June 28, 2009 by Mobi

[Maizefarmer]

You were over the limit and driving the wrong way on the road - and thats exactly how the magistrate would have deal't with it (i.e. the facts) - but you got off with B7K!

Not withstanding that you did have all sorts of rights that were either not availed to you, or you did not understand how to go about ensuring you got, consider yourself lucky - call it day and put it down to experiance.

[salty]

Weren't Thong Lo police connected with the licensing of The Santika Night Club and the rigorous "investigation" in its aftermath?

[JohnGotti]

What was your mindset when you were driving drunk on the wrong side of the road? Was it something like, "Well, if I get stopped I know the consequences will be minor! Haha! I would never do this backhome, but in Thailand I can buy my way out of it"... Cause, while that would not excuse the cop from trying to say you tried to kill him, it would help us understand the nature of the cop and yourself, two pees in a pod.

His mindset was probably derived from watching Thai men do the same or much worse on motorbikes and never get called on it. The lack of law here makes people do foolish and dangerous things, why every day I ride on the back of some insane motorcycle taxis bike without a helmet. Its just luck I don't get killed but I don't stop using the same service every day. Just a matter of time.

Not all people. Lets display some personal responsibility at some point.

Edited June 29, 2009 by JohnGotti

[longstebe]

Most of us on here have probably drunk drive.

You know it was wrong but you where just unlucky to bump into them pr!cks.

Let it go mate.

[cpofc]

Thanks for the dad speech from some people.

im not looking for your pity, forgiveness or anything, i never said or implied that.

If some think i am a troll, arent you just fueling the fire of something you dislike by responding to the post?

i merely asked for other peoples experiences and if asking to see the law is within my rights.

so again, im ok with anyones comments, good or bad, if you feel you have to make your judgements (non constructive or off topic), that is fine too, thatis what forums are for and i leave myself open to them.

im not suprised the claws come out from some people, thats the nature of the world full of perfect people right?

Oh don't you just love people who get off by taking the moral high ground and deliver sermons on right and wrong whilst all the time avoiding the issue. Mate, I have been done for drink driving in my own country. Not proud of it and I certainly don't brag about it. I made a mistake. I paid for it, under the law, and I also made a pact with myself never to do it again! (drink driving was part of australian culture when I was young BTW). Yes, sure, you stuffed up. But this doesn't give the Coppers the right to convene their own Star Chamber.

Cop it sweet, take it on the chin. Yes, you did commit an offence, albiet, not attempted murder.

Noted. Even though your actions were not valid, your complaint about Police practices certainly is,

[JohnGotti]

you do realize that drinking and driving in the west will cost you a hundred thousand baht in legal fees + suspended license + arrest record/getting fired/getting kicked out of school + possible jail/probation time... right? if you think that drinking and driving is not a big issue and that people are preaching you are probably just another retard.

3/4 of the cars on the road after midnight are taxis.... try getting inside of one douchbag.

Edited June 29, 2009 by JohnGotti

[cpofc]

do I detect somewhat of a contradiction here?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gotti