I know some thai friends for many years now, but still:

You ask a question and their reaction is:

-1- No reaction at all

-2- long time silence

-3- "up to you", whenever if you insist on answer

-4- a reply what you want to hear, whenever you insist further for more clear answer

Never a clear "Yes" or "No" at first. And for sure, my friends know my actions, if their answer is "up to you", it equals "No" to me, and therefor they gain nothing and surely not gain my full joy/fun to the party (bad me, I am always suspiscious).

But otherway around, if they ask me a question, my thai friends demand a clear "Yes" or "No" on the spot.

I still have no clue, don't you feel so insignificant if their next action is:

-5- Do, what they want to do, and not tell you what is going on to be done. And for sure, the action is different as the compromise you had in mind.

For me, I have:

-6- Always a little disappointment, because compromise is not held

-7- Enjoy time, because of happiness and .....

-8- Less joy as outsider, because of .....

Please, can you fill out the blanks ..... for me

Maybe they simply dont understand ya - I am having a hard time, although the answers look familiar and

annoying. It might simply mean that ya need to ask if they understood the question. If they do and still

answer up to you, move or get new friends.

BR>Jack

I know some thai friends for many years now, but still:

You ask a question and their reaction is:

-1- No reaction at all

-2- long time silence

-3- "up to you", whenever if you insist on answer

-4- a reply what you want to hear, whenever you insist further for more clear answer

Never a clear "Yes" or "No" at first. And for sure, my friends know my actions, if their answer is "up to you", it equals "No" to me, and therefor they gain nothing and surely not gain my full joy/fun to the party (bad me, I am always suspiscious).

But otherway around, if they ask me a question, my thai friends demand a clear "Yes" or "No" on the spot.

I still have no clue, don't you feel so insignificant if their next action is:

-5- Do, what they want to do, and not tell you what is going on to be done. And for sure, the action is different as the compromise you had in mind.

For me, I have:

-6- Always a little disappointment, because compromise is not held

-7- Enjoy time, because of happiness and .....

-8- Less joy as outsider, because of .....

Please, can you fill out the blanks ..... for me

In Thailand it all has to do with "face". Thais do not like to give a direct "yes" or "no" answer. If you are their superior, they will lose "face" by criticising your decidion. Therefore they try to avoid giving a direct answer to a direct question. If you live in Thailand for any period, you just have to get used to this, and learn how to deal with it.

So you have to learn how to phrase your questions so that a direct yes/no answer is not required.

As you said, you have to learn how to read the 'tone' of their answers.

When they answer hesitantly...or don't want to answer...or remain silent...they are saying no, don't do it that way, but I'd rather not criticse your choice directly.

My Thai girlfirend is a fine example. If i ask her do you want us to do (action), and she answers, "Do whatever you want." then I understand that as NO, DON't DO THAT.

It takes time to learn the verbal hints and body language clues to know what they want you to do.

Just like in a marriage...it takes time to understand your spouse's real meaning.

Edited June 28, 200917 yr by IMA_FARANG

it takes time to understand your spouse's real meaning.

Some times they are even able to say the opposite of what they really want.Up to you not to fall into the trap.

Best Regards, Jack

But answer "up to you" can only be replied to simple questions, to which I certainly not have to ask again "if they understood the question".

F.e. "Can I visit you to have food/drink together". Clear to answer "Yes" or "No" to that question.

Some-times I think the word question and answer are not even understood, even though I explain question mark "?" and the meaning of "yes" and "no".

Thanks to make clear to me again any differences:

Start Quote:

In Thailand it all has to do with "face". Thais do not like to give a direct "yes" or "no" answer. If you are their superior, they will lose "face" by criticising your decidion

End Quote

I explained (by word and action) my friends extensively for years:

- I am a friend and NOT a superior

- I not care about face (no-one face lost, both way, to admit doing wrong, because we now say "sorry" and "thank you" to eachother)

- Talk direct and clear (because I can't read mind)

As much I hate "up to you", I hate this standard phrase "lose face". Because it not apply to friendship.

However I get your drift in general

Edited June 28, 200917 yr by vreemd13

LOL

Ever since Asia became vogue, this loss of face or gain big face has become a catchall copout.

BOSSMAN - Do ya wanna work for me - I can only pay you $5,000 per week, plus a RR & gas?

THAI - Up to you. Yeah right. Get real.

BR>Jack

Hello fellow dutchmen, they are thai, they are different accept it. There are not use westeners. Although I talked with alot of Thai guys and didn't see much of a problem. It depends on the person I think.

Thanks to make clear to me again any differences:

Start Quote:

In Thailand it all has to do with "face". Thais do not like to give a direct "yes" or "no" answer. If you are their superior, they will lose "face" by criticising your decidion

End Quote

I explained (by word and action) my friends extensively for years:

- I am a friend and NOT a superior

- I not care about face (no-one face lost, both way, to admit doing wrong, because we now say "sorry" and "thank you" to eachother)

- Talk direct and clear (because I can't read mind)

As much I hate "up to you", I hate this standard phrase "lose face". Because it not apply to friendship.

However I get your drift in general

Yes but this is a fact in thai culture and you have to deal with it.

Some times just the fact that you pay most of the bills when you go out or just because you are farang will induce this notion of superiority.

But most of it is just because of the thai culture and have nothing to do with friendship.

At the beginning of my relationship with my wife,i was upset every times a was asking something and she was not answering.

Now i know that the meaning is "do what you want I have no opinion"

Edited June 28, 200917 yr by isanb

Hello fellow dutchmen, they are thai, they are different accept it. There are not use westeners. Although I talked with alot of Thai guys and didn't see much of a problem. It depends on the person I think.

Ah, that explains it. I knew from the OP's questions that he wasn't English.

Yes, Thai people ARE different, but like Europeans and North Americans there is no rule that fits everyone.

In many ways it IS like a marriage where two people take a long time getting to know each other. It is also a common problem between men and women in general in every country.

Europeans and North Americans are usually direct in their questions and answers. Asians are not. And, it's not a case of honesty. It's just a different way of doing things.

A simple question such as "Are we going out for supper tonight?" might have several replies of which none are correct. The easiest way is to go with the flow and not make any plans other than for your own personal immediate needs.

Totally forget about making any long range plans that involve anyone else but yourself. If you want to go on a holiday somewhere then make plans for just yourself and inform your partner when you are leaving and when you expect to return. Tell them you'd like to have them along and then leave it up to them if they want to come or not. Most often they will decide one way or the other at the last possible moment.

I have three good friends who have devoted, loving Thai wives. All their wives are exactly the same. They all change their minds at the last possible moment. It may be irritating, but there's no need to get upset. It is what it is and you can't change it.

I don't have that problem, I'm not sure I ever did. I make sure when speaking to a non-native English speaker in general to speak slowly and clearly.

IanF:

Probably true, it can't be changed,

When people change their mind at the last moment without any notice: it is annoying, irritating and makes you upset, this make you feel you are not important for anything.

It just shows sellfish and chauvinistic behaviour.

What about communication prior to the last minute change?

Jungian:

My OP -8- STEP's are very clear for over 3 years to my non-native English speaking friends, BTW they speak and understand Englisch for over 10 years. Thus, talk slow english, will not solve my problem.

Edited June 28, 200917 yr by vreemd13

Thanks to make clear to me again any differences:

Start Quote:

In Thailand it all has to do with "face". Thais do not like to give a direct "yes" or "no" answer. If you are their superior, they will lose "face" by criticising your decidion

End Quote

I explained (by word and action) my friends extensively for years:

- I am a friend and NOT a superior

- I not care about face (no-one face lost, both way, to admit doing wrong, because we now say "sorry" and "thank you" to eachother)

- Talk direct and clear (because I can't read mind)

As much I hate "up to you", I hate this standard phrase "lose face". Because it not apply to friendship.

However I get your drift in general

My experience is quite different. Whenever I ask my employees a question, they would almost always answer yes when they don't know or need to check before they tell me. I've learned that I must always check myself and not rely on them for an honest report on what is happening.

With friends, it's is a little different. I'm often able to get direct replies from them. Only problem is, they seldom live up to their promises. When I ask them to suggest a place to dine, they will often give a good suggestion. If the answer is "tam jai", it means that they are not in the mood to go.

Another thing would be their fear of proper nouns. This applies to both friends and workers. Equipment and instruments have proper names. You can tell them 100 times what that big thing, that round thing, that black thing, that red thing is called. They still call it the big thing, that round thing, that black thing, that red thing.

Thanks to make clear to me again any differences:

Start Quote:

In Thailand it all has to do with "face". Thais do not like to give a direct "yes" or "no" answer. If you are their superior, they will lose "face" by criticising your decidion

End Quote

I explained (by word and action) my friends extensively for years:

- I am a friend and NOT a superior

- I not care about face (no-one face lost, both way, to admit doing wrong, because we now say "sorry" and "thank you" to eachother)

- Talk direct and clear (because I can't read mind)

As much I hate "up to you", I hate this standard phrase "lose face". Because it not apply to friendship.

However I get your drift in general

Losing face is a very convenient explanation used by Farangs who don't understand some aspects of Thai behaviour, but it's not always the case.

Next, this "superior"-"inferior" thing should not be taken for granted. A Thai employee would speak to me with a lowered head and subservient tone, but I must also be careful not to scold them even when they have made mistakes. When something goes wrong and I'm too aggressive with my interrogation and search for the truth, the one at fault may turn violent.

Face is not always an issue. I think very often, it has more to do with restraint, avoidance of debates, arguments or even intelligent discussions, bottling up of emotions - all leading to a lack of ability to deal with conflicts and criticism. That's why all my Thai friendships are so superficial and so necessarily so.

it's all about NOT losing face!

I never ask anything. I know everything there is to know

Whenever I get up to you I give some ridiculous suggestion. They say no. I then say not up to me. You choose. I dont always get a decision but usually get a smile of recognition and we are then into some form of negotiation. Try it its fun

Whenever I get up to you I give some ridiculous suggestion. They say no. I then say not up to me. You choose. I dont always get a decision but usually get a smile of recognition and we are then into some form of negotiation. Try it its fun

Ok....my head has stopped spinning now....I will give a translation of that posting.

Whenever I get "up to you", I give some ridiculous suggestion. They say "no". I then say "not up to me. You choose".

I dont always get a decision, but usually get a smile of recognition and we are then into some form of negotiation.

Try it........ its fun.

No disrespect meant, sgunn65, it just makes it a lot easier to read.

Long ago, I abandoned all hope of getting answers from Thais. Many don't answer other Thais. Face, schmace. The B/F said something to me an hour ago, in fluent English, that I didn't understand. I ignored him and he walked off, happy. No communication at times. Never mind; doesn't matter.

errr... not only Thai people say that though, often got that one from the friend when out eating.

- What u wanna eat?

- dunno, What u wanna eat?

- up to you

- hmmm... i dunno are you hungry?

-yeh a lil bit

-So what u wanna eat?

-i dunno....

it's kinda fun lol

errr... not only Thai people say that though, often got that one from the friend when out eating.

- What u wanna eat?

- dunno, What u wanna eat?

- up to you

- hmmm... i dunno are you hungry?

-yeh a lil bit

-So what u wanna eat?

-i dunno....

it's kinda fun lol

That explains your avatar

The B/F said something to me an hour ago, in fluent English, that I didn't understand. I ignored him and he walked off, happy.

???????

And you really don't want to know what he asked you?

I was going to give the OP an answer, but wasn't sure what he wants to hear, so my answer is up to him.

Long ago, I abandoned all hope of getting answers from Thais. Many don't answer other Thais. Face, schmace. The B/F said something to me an hour ago, in fluent English, that I didn't understand. I ignored him and he walked off, happy. No communication at times. Never mind; doesn't matter.

Isn't that the sort of generalisation you were warning people about on another thread? I get answers from many Thais, and I'm sure others do too. Imagine the bigger mess the country would be in if no one gave any answers:

"Which runway shall I land the plane on?" "Up to you."

"Do you find the defendent guilty?" "Up to him."

"Shall we hold a coup to overthrow this corrupt administration?" "I don't care."

I'll admit, some questions are unanswerable at first though:

"How many morons dressed in red can we get in Sanam Luang?" "I don't know, let's hold a rally and find out."

They dont seem to be able to say "not sure" or " i dont know ".......and "up to you" is normally folowed silently by " your paying.....

They dont seem to be able to say "not sure" or " i dont know ".......and "up to you" is normally folowed silently by " your paying.....

Oooh, some recognition, however not always the case.

But "they" are often able only to expect back a clear answer from you. If "they" ask something, it often has to be a clear black/white answer: "No" or "Yes", and "they" will repeatedly ask you same, until you answer "No" or "Yes". In "their" case an acceptance of "Up to You" will be out of the question.

The B/F said something to me an hour ago, in fluent English, that I didn't understand. I ignored him and he walked off, happy.

???????

And you really don't want to know what he asked you?

I would want to know if it was a sarcasm remark or something else ... I would want to know what was going on?

And I don't accept an easy answer like: "you think to much". If some-body is able to back-talk about me, without knowing or asking my point of view of the subject, it is useless to continue.

Like Ballpoint quote:

" Isn't that the sort of generalisation you were warning people about on another thread? "

Lack of communication. Why, you give up return communication? Just to keep peace, PB? Or just to make BF happy?

Edited June 30, 200917 yr by vreemd13

The B/F said something to me an hour ago, in fluent English, that I didn't understand. I ignored him and he walked off, happy.

???????

And you really don't want to know what he asked you?

Living here has taught me: much of what farang and Thas say is mai bpen rai. If they think we didnt understand and they think an answer is needed, they'll repeat or clarify.

Added: I gave up on lots of small talk, or learning Thai.

I proposed 2 rules to our relationship as soon as my wife could understand enough English to comprehend my messages, which she accepted.

1. You will never lie to me and I will never lie to you. Untruths undermine trust and without trust there can be no close, loving relationship. This has been upgraded since with the addition of neither of us will keep silent over things that the other has a right or expectation to know. The sin of omission has same same effect as being openly untruthful.

2. Both of us have opinions and they should be aired. Disagreements may well occur but we will never allow them to degenerate into warfare. I am not the big boss - and neither are you. In all things I will take your opinion into consideration and I expect the same.

It has taken time for her to 'get off her knees in supplication' as she had been brainwashed into and she now acts more and more as an equal partner should. We both laugh when at times she tells me "I farang lady now." It may be fanciful but I feel it has been like bringing her out of the 'dark ages' and into the sunlight.

Other rules have include the banning of the phrase 'mai pen rai.' She now has the realisation that things do matter and it has been the driving force behind civilisation. 'Up to you' is never heard. (see 2 above)

This concept may not work for everybody but it certainly has for us - and has filtered down to my in laws.

I proposed 2 rules to our relationship as soon as my wife could understand enough English to comprehend my messages, which she accepted.

1. You will never lie to me and I will never lie to you. Untruths undermine trust and without trust there can be no close, loving relationship. This has been upgraded since with the addition of neither of us will keep silent over things that the other has a right or expectation to know. The sin of omission has same same effect as being openly untruthful.

2. Both of us have opinions and they should be aired. Disagreements may well occur but we will never allow them to degenerate into warfare. I am not the big boss - and neither are you. In all things I will take your opinion into consideration and I expect the same.

It has taken time for her to 'get off her knees in supplication' as she had been brainwashed into and she now acts more and more as an equal partner should. We both laugh when at times she tells me "I farang lady now." It may be fanciful but I feel it has been like bringing her out of the 'dark ages' and into the sunlight.

Other rules have include the banning of the phrase 'mai pen rai.' She now has the realisation that things do matter and it has been the driving force behind civilisation. 'Up to you' is never heard. (see 2 above)

This concept may not work for everybody but it certainly has for us - and has filtered down to my in laws.

I really like this! I wonder if it would be something my thai boyfriend would be down with....