Comment From A Thai - "we're Going To Get What We Deserve"

[Lopburi99]

One of the pillars of "Thai-ness" is the fact that the country was never colonized.

All of the neighboring countries were colonized, and while they expelled the people who are now described as "invaders", the imprint remains, and it is not all negative by any means.

In Vietnam, for example, there is still enormous implicit respect for the French and recognition of what they contributed during their 100-year influence. The impact has been very wide: organization, discipline, acceptance of foreign ways of working. If the dead hand of Communism is ever fully lifted from that country, it is going to zoom forward.

By contrast, Thailand follows its own way, believing that bumbling along, worshiping sanuk as the highest form of existence, not telling anyone what to do, and not expecting anyone to tell you what to do, will eventually work itself out.

I rather like this viewpoint, but it seems to be breaking down as it increasingly grinds against the demands of the globalized economy. You can be smiley, spontaneous and charming, or you can run an efficient industrialized economy. To achieve both simultaneously would be a unique achievement.

Good post. I agree completely.

[MJP]

When complete arrogance largely based on ignorance meets harsh reality of a 1929 type depression anything can happen. The big difference in Thailand, perhaps, that a huge segment of the population is used to and can survive on next to nothing in rural Thailand; part of the sense of being a Thai in Thailand is the abundance of "free" food albeit stuff that the average Westerner would throw up at the thought of eating. Expect loads of people to retreat back to their rural roots with the odd farang expected to fund whole villages taken along for the ride. If you are a farang not providing monetary largesse expect a good kicking! And as for rich tourists expect to be scammed every which way. Looks like the party is nearly over!

Although your post sounds alarmist, I think that all countries, during this recession/depression, will become,

1. More protectionist (as if that was actually possible for LOS)

2. More nationalistic

3. More aggressive/less tolerant towards foreign peoples resident in which ever country

This will certainly be the case in Thailand too.

I was speaking with a long, long term expat, who's made a nice life here. He's an old friend (one of my best friends actually) so I do listen to him. He remembers the 1992 coup and remembers how the farang took a lot of abuse from Thai's back then. "Farang's were getting spat at, attacked" were his words. He maintains that Thai's need to blame someone for their woes and this will very likely be expats.

I do feel more of a stranger in Thailand now. I feel safe, but I'm not sure how long it will be before we are not that welcome here. Which is a shame.

The recent relative success of the British National Party (far right wing) in the European elections in the UK is testament to how attitudes rapidly change during periods of economic duress.

Personally, although I've had recent marital issues (which were just as likely to happen should I have been married to a European) I love my little life here.

Although I'm off again soon (back to work ), once I return, if things are bad, I will stick to my usual routine where I'm recognised, known and liked. Basically the village and my usual trips round Roi-Et. Not really interested in anything else/other places/travelling anyway, so it makes little odds.

Edited June 29, 2009 by MJP

[jackdanielsesq]

Yup - KISS - keep it simple, stupid

BR>Jack

[myfriendyou]

Time to post a strict Forum rule:

"8) Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais."

This entire thread is on the verge of disappearing.

Its a good discussion why not just edit what you feel is OTT and let it continue, there is bound to be some one step over the line just because you have said you would delete it all from what I have seen so far..

[Lopburi99]

Yup - KISS - keep it simple, stupid

BR>Jack

Right Jack. In my prior life of being a go-getter over-achiever entrepreneur I would have gone nuts living in Thailand. Now, in my retirement, I just relax and concentrate on enjoying the positives about living here. The simple life works for me.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Lopburi99

[MJP]

Yup - KISS - keep it simple, stupid

BR>Jack

Right Jack. In my prior life of being a go-getter over-achiever entrepreneur I would have gone nuts living in Thailand. Now, in my retirement, I just relax and concentrate on enjoying the positives about living here. The simple life works for me.

Not in retirement yet, long way to go, I'm the same. High achiever in the West (knocks hel_l out of you), this place, this simple kinder life, spending time with Issan folks, really is the perfect antidote to Western stress.

Peaceblondie, please edit the bad stuff, but keep the thread.

[madjbs]

Considering that most small business start ups fail, it's logical to assume that most in Thailand also fail. That is bound to create quite a few farang businessmen failures, and of course, it was never their fault for being a lousy businessman, but all the Thais for ganging up on them blah blah blah.

[MJP]

Just come across this from my usual forum (nothing to do with expats). It's a thread discussing where to go from the UK to weather the economic storm.

Interesting thread as this is something I have done on and off over the last few years...

Surprised no one has mentioned NZ - 9 month tourist visas for Brits and not too hard to emigrate if you have skills. Only 4m people and same size as UK but alas far far away and a little bit backward too.

Australia - visas would be the issue here although it is possible to get a 12 month tourist visa that does not mean you have to leave every three months. Great place for a short while though but the climate will make it a ghost continent in the future.

Thailand I'd avoid now, increasingly expensive, bitter locals, unrest, chavs everywhere from UK/Europe.

Malaysia Not as cheap as you'd imagine but friendly people, lots to do and see, English widely spoken, great as a base for rest of Asia with KL being budget airline hubs.

Bali is a great place but short visas means flying in and out.

South America / Central - much more dangerous than Asia, even developed places like Argentina can be dodgy.

So I would stick to the EU where you can work legally and live, buy property and do as locals do.

Language would not be an issue in the EU if you are prepared to get off your backside and learn the local language or alternatively live a crap existence on the Costas with all the gin and tonic soaked, sunburned whingers from Britain.

[madjbs]

Protectionism doesn't work and it only hurts the country that tries it.

Not true. Many countries, both large and small, have used various forms of protectionism to protect fledgling industries that later succeeded. I

Just because the industry succeeded in the end does not mean that the protectionism was successful. The labour force and capital would most likely have been better used to produce something in an industry which that particular country has a competitive advantage in. By doing that, the country is able to consume a greater number of all goods than before, through production and trade. This however, does not please the rich who hold the cards, as they will be unable to easily make huge profits as they are able to under restrictive trade rules. It might also be unpopular with the working class as well, as initially jobs will be lost and labour would have to be reallocated. But, for the country as a whole, free trade is best.

The idea that Thailand is implementing lots of protectionist policies is silly anyway. There are many new free trade agreements in place and being organised, which have a much greater importance than whether Bob or John can legally own a house in Isaan.

Edited June 29, 2009 by madjbs

[Datsun240Z]

When complete arrogance largely based on ignorance meets harsh reality of a 1929 type depression anything can happen. The big difference in Thailand, perhaps, that a huge segment of the population is used to and can survive on next to nothing in rural Thailand; part of the sense of being a Thai in Thailand is the abundance of "free" food albeit stuff that the average Westerner would throw up at the thought of eating. Expect loads of people to retreat back to their rural roots with the odd farang expected to fund whole villages taken along for the ride. If you are a farang not providing monetary largesse expect a good kicking! And as for rich tourists expect to be scammed every which way. Looks like the party is nearly over!

Although your post sounds alarmist, I think that all countries, during this recession/depression, will become,

1. More protectionist (as if that was actually possible for LOS)

2. More nationalistic

3. More aggressive/less tolerant towards foreign peoples resident in which ever country

The perfect ingredient for WWIII

[mahtin]

The idea that Thailand is implementing lots of protectionist policies is silly anyway. There are many new free trade agreements in place and being organised, which have a much greater importance than whether Bob or John can legally own a house in Isaan.

Well, I'll be a lot happier when mahtin can get Beer Lao in the local 7-11

[MJP]

When complete arrogance largely based on ignorance meets harsh reality of a 1929 type depression anything can happen. The big difference in Thailand, perhaps, that a huge segment of the population is used to and can survive on next to nothing in rural Thailand; part of the sense of being a Thai in Thailand is the abundance of "free" food albeit stuff that the average Westerner would throw up at the thought of eating. Expect loads of people to retreat back to their rural roots with the odd farang expected to fund whole villages taken along for the ride. If you are a farang not providing monetary largesse expect a good kicking! And as for rich tourists expect to be scammed every which way. Looks like the party is nearly over!

Although your post sounds alarmist, I think that all countries, during this recession/depression, will become,

1. More protectionist (as if that was actually possible for LOS)

2. More nationalistic

3. More aggressive/less tolerant towards foreign peoples resident in which ever country

The perfect ingredient for WWIII

Thanks to Dr. Oppenheimer there will be no WWIII. Mutually Assured Destruction.

There will be localised fighting, perhaps an increase of that we see today.

Any, that's another topic.

[Datsun240Z]

When complete arrogance largely based on ignorance meets harsh reality of a 1929 type depression anything can happen. The big difference in Thailand, perhaps, that a huge segment of the population is used to and can survive on next to nothing in rural Thailand; part of the sense of being a Thai in Thailand is the abundance of "free" food albeit stuff that the average Westerner would throw up at the thought of eating. Expect loads of people to retreat back to their rural roots with the odd farang expected to fund whole villages taken along for the ride. If you are a farang not providing monetary largesse expect a good kicking! And as for rich tourists expect to be scammed every which way. Looks like the party is nearly over!

The recent relative success of the British National Party (far right wing) in the European elections in the UK is testament to how attitudes rapidly change during periods of economic duress.

In The Netherlands also the right wing is allready the highest -> Peoples Freedom Party. This means everybody in the world is really SICK of being sucked empty and played with. Your prediction could come true Mike.

[MJP]

The idea that Thailand is implementing lots of protectionist policies is silly anyway. There are many new free trade agreements in place and being organised, which have a much greater importance than whether Bob or John can legally own a house in Isaan.

Well, I'll be a lot happier when mahtin can get Beer Lao in the local 7-11

I like Issan Beer. Not very strong. But okay. They must export it, because I struggle to find it here . . . smack bang in the middle of Issan!

[Datsun240Z]

When complete arrogance largely based on ignorance meets harsh reality of a 1929 type depression anything can happen. The big difference in Thailand, perhaps, that a huge segment of the population is used to and can survive on next to nothing in rural Thailand; part of the sense of being a Thai in Thailand is the abundance of "free" food albeit stuff that the average Westerner would throw up at the thought of eating. Expect loads of people to retreat back to their rural roots with the odd farang expected to fund whole villages taken along for the ride. If you are a farang not providing monetary largesse expect a good kicking! And as for rich tourists expect to be scammed every which way. Looks like the party is nearly over!

Although your post sounds alarmist, I think that all countries, during this recession/depression, will become,

1. More protectionist (as if that was actually possible for LOS)

2. More nationalistic

3. More aggressive/less tolerant towards foreign peoples resident in which ever country

The perfect ingredient for WWIII

Thanks to Dr. Oppenheimer there will be no WWIII. Mutually Assured Destruction.

There will be localised fighting, perhaps an increase of that we see today.

Any, that's another topic.

Mike,

I think the generations that had the good life from the late 60's to the late 80's also the baby boomers, maxed out the economy, most of them have allready filled pockets a good life,house or retirement plan, they filled their pockets, the new generation is left in the shit, what it is today.

[MJP]

The perfect ingredient for WWIII

Thanks to Dr. Oppenheimer there will be no WWIII. Mutually Assured Destruction.

There will be localised fighting, perhaps an increase of that we see today.

Any, that's another topic.

Mike,

I think the generations that had the good life from the late 60's to the late 80's also the baby boomers, maxed out the economy, most of them have allready filled pockets a good life,house or retirement plan, they filled their pockets, the new generation is left in the shit, what it is today.

Still no reason to vapourise everything in a fraction of a second.

[Datsun240Z]

That's true, guess it's in our own hands!

[MJP]

That's true, guess it's in our own hands!

If you've no work, dude, go and do a Master's degree or something. Although this recession will be a long and deep one, make the best of your time. Those who do, will come out of this doing quite well.

[Heng]

Everyone gets what they deserve anyway. It's just important to remember that just wanting something doesn't mean you deserve it.

[wolfmanjack]

When complete arrogance largely based on ignorance meets harsh reality of a 1929 type depression anything can happen. The big difference in Thailand, perhaps, that a huge segment of the population is used to and can survive on next to nothing in rural Thailand; part of the sense of being a Thai in Thailand is the abundance of "free" food albeit stuff that the average Westerner would throw up at the thought of eating. Expect loads of people to retreat back to their rural roots with the odd farang expected to fund whole villages taken along for the ride. If you are a farang not providing monetary largesse expect a good kicking! And as for rich tourists expect to be scammed every which way. Looks like the party is nearly over!

A lot of the free "vegetables" are quite good. On the wat to the MIL my wife had me stop on the side of the road so she could gather leaves from trees. When we got to the village we had them for lunch and they tasted a bit like spinach but better. Granted the other "vegetable" she gathered along the road was rather nasty tasting to me but all the thais enjoyed it.

[wolfmanjack]

Everyone gets what they deserve anyway. It's just important to remember that just wanting something doesn't mean you deserve it.

I know a lot of people that do a lot of bad things and only good things happen to them so the only way they get what they deserve is if there is an afterlife they get punished in.

[wolfmanjack]

That's true, guess it's in our own hands!

If you've no work, dude, go and do a Master's degree or something. Although this recession will be a long and deep one, make the best of your time. Those who do, will come out of this doing quite well.

How do you propose he pays for the tuition and money to live on while he is getting his masters if there are no jobs ?

[wolfmanjack]

Time to post a strict Forum rule:

"8) Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais."

This entire thread is on the verge of disappearing.

Why does the thread always have to be closed when some of the posters break the rules ??? Wouldn't it make more sense to give the posters that break the rules a vacation instead of punishing all of the other posters that are following the rules ?

[wolfmanjack]

As a Thai (and Thai Chinese), I think opening up the entire playing field would be excellent.

Please explain in what way ? would like to see your point of view on this topic.

[Birdman]

Sign of the times? Don't watch Thai TV that much, but every time a have a glimpse I see all the beautiful, young actors at the usual TV operas screaming like aggressive maniacs and threatening each other with guns now. At lot of hate, aggressive jealousy and violence is involved.

It seems, that the main subliminal education system here, soap operas at prime TV time that is, is more aggressive then ever.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Birdman

[wolfmanjack]

they have seen what the monster Dollar juggernaut can do

Yet they crave the almighty $$ above everything else. It always amazes me how easily daughters are sold into prostitution. The love of money disgusts me here. This is the country where everything is for sale.

Climb up and stagger out of the bar and run; you've spent too long in Soi Cowboy!

Apart from the red light areas ask ANYONE that has had busines dealings with thais what its like,.......for retirees and those with their head in the sand life is grand,.

I have had business dealing with thais for 10 years.For the most part I don't see them treating me any different than thais. Occasionally i get someone that says this business is only for thai people but ALL of my suppliers are thai and most of them will give me 30 days credit when i need it at no interest. The only discrimination i feel is from the government. I have to follow the rules more than the thai companies do which in turn cost me more money to do the same business.

[thaihome]

"I think we deserve to suffer to show us what we've done"

Was discussing the changes in Land Department policies on Thai wife's owning land and company structures owning land basically making it much harder.

...

What I find most amazing about this thread is the fact that the post that started all of it is misleading. There as been no changes in his wife's right to own land and the rule on company structures, i.e. nominees, was issued in 2006.

TH

[wolfmanjack]

"I think we deserve to suffer to show us what we've done"

Was discussing the changes in Land Department policies on Thai wife's owning land and company structures owning land basically making it much harder.

...

What I find most amazing about this thread is the fact that the post that started all of it is misleading. There as been no changes in his wife's right to own land and the rule on company structures, i.e. nominees, was issued in 2006.

TH

Not a change in the actual law but a change in the implementation of the law has the same effect.

[Jungian]

The truth is if we were allowed to buy land and do with it as we please the average Thai person would never be a home owner and wind up squatting. Face it Thailand would be turned into a rich mans playground and the average price per rai would be $250,000. I'm not happy about not being able to own land either but I guess the answer to that is to become a Thai citizen which is not hard providing you are not a criminal and can read, write and speak Thai.

[Johpa]

It is just silly how many people fails to see that if you have no money, you will go to great lengths to get some. It is easy for a guy loaded with money to be generous, honest and respectable because he can afford to be. Look at other less developed countries, and I must honestly say that Thailand comes out comparably very, very well. Seems like the biggest whiners here have just experienced western Europe and Thailand. If you want to see really hard ass attitudes, scamming and crime you dont have to go further than Eastern Europe. I travel extensively through the world, and the more I travel, the more respect I get for Thailand.

WB

Alas one only need to look at the true axis of evil, NYC, Boston and Greenwich in the USA to see " hard ass attitudes, scamming and crime" where you can also see people, with very large amounts of money indeed. who will continue to go to great lengths to get even more wealth at any expense to others and who have no interest whatsoever in being generous, honest, or respectable.