Sale Of Alcoholic Drinks Are Banned For Religious Holidays.

[robblok]

Ex-Kaaskop.... S.A?

Nope Dutch.

Now i know why ppl think that because South africa was a colony of the Dutch and the ex would be about the separation.

I mean with ex that i left Holland

Edited July 3, 2009 by robblok

[G54]

Ban alcohol but not ban working?

If they want to make these truly religious holidays why do they not stop people working for the days too? Give the people a proper holiday. But it seems it is OK for the Banks, Government offices and the like to stop working, but not the general populace.

I cannot really see how they can allow one part of the people to be allowed to buy drink and another not be able to. So they would need to make a blanket ban on the sales of alcohol for everyone.

IMHO though, it does seem crazy to ban the sales of alcohol on these days in pubs, clubs and restaurants. That forces many places to close and the workers in those places to do without any pay for those days while others continue to be able to have a wage for the day.

You penalise the tourists and a section of the workers whose establishments close and others who would like to go out and have a drink because it is a 'holiday'.

Yet they are not banning drinking??? (Impossible to do). That does seem crazy.

[webfact]

Is not only a matter of banning alcohol. Its power play IMHO

The legislative body must not turn into henchman for any religious interests.

Is Buddhism state religion in Thailand? Not yet! Equal freedom of religion for all is guaranteed and protected by His Majesty the King.

So Christians, Muslims - every religion is equal and could come up with similar demands.

Will their demands treated equally?

Edited July 3, 2009 by webfact

[robblok]

Is not only a matter of banning alcohol. Its power play IMHO

The legislative body must not turn into henchman for any religious interests.

Is Buddhism state religion in Thailand? Not yet! Equal freedom of religion for all is guaranteed and protected by His Majesty the King.

So Christians, Muslims - every religion is equal and could come up with similar demands.

Will their demands treated equally?

Whole problem all over the world is that atheist can't come up with demands because if your religious your always treated better.

[slapout]

Doubt if the proposal is a law yet (What laws are observed by the Thai populace in this age anyway?) I have lived in countries where booze, non essential stores including petrol pumps where closed on holidays and even Sundays, but life went on its merry way. I seem to remember Thailand, at one time, had no drinking laws for holidays and election days but it was not enforced in tourist hangouts and the establishments would not sell to Thai's during those times. Reckon someone is getting in a gottcha as maybe they were turned away back then.

[DP25]

The thing that bothers me about these alcohol bans, is that the only people it affects are tourists. It's always easy for Thais to get alcohol on these days, whether it's from a corner shop, a khao tom restaurant that doesn't stop selling, or by stocking up before hand. The only place that the alcohol ban is strictly enforced is in the tourist areas, elsewhere the ban is loosely enforced and the alcohol continues to flow.

[Scott]

The comparison between the US and Thailand is not thei issue. Different states have different laws and a large % of the population live with easy distance of a border where they can drink freely every Sunday if they wish. The point is that the US doesn't put itself out as a tourist destination and it doesn't depend on tourism revenue anywhere to the extent that Thailand does.

It makes no difference to me if they allow alcohol or don't allow alcohol on any given day, but it does seem absurd that you try to attract tourists and then deny many of them the opportunity to engage in activities that they enjoy. This is especially true for many Europeans where alcohol consumption with meals etc. is very much a part of the culture and is considered normal.

They might want to either set up or enforce their entertainment zones that they had some time back and allow them to be open. But, hey, I guess it's their country and we can all head to the Casinos in Cambodia for the holiday (God, I hope they haven't lost the plot as well).

[oldsparrow]

The one forbidding sale of alcohol between 2-5 PM says to the rest of the world

They used to do this exact same thing in England a number of years ago, the bars would close for a few hours and then reopen later. Suddenly for some reason they changed it though, I have no idea why.

This 2-5 PM alcohol ban is an forgotten law and had not been enforceed for some decades until Thaksin admin. brought it up.

I think it's very pointless law and think most Thai think so, except some ideal activists. The present gov. should drop it ASAP but they may be too busy trying to survive.

Alcohol ban on election day may serve some point. I believe that when the Thai citizens must have clear head just to vote for their representatives, the representatives themselves must also never drink at all during their term as they have to be responsible to the things greater than themselves.

[robblok]

I think it's very pointless law and think most Thai think so, except some ideal activists. The present gov. should drop it ASAP but they may be too busy trying to survive.

Alcohol ban on election day may serve some point. I believe that when the Thai citizens must have clear head just to vote for their representatives, the representatives themselves must also never drink at all during their term as they have to be responsible to the things greater than themselves.

I agree about the alcohol ban on voting days, i can see the logic of that.

[webfact]

The one forbidding sale of alcohol between 2-5 PM says to the rest of the world

They used to do this exact same thing in England a number of years ago, the bars would close for a few hours and then reopen later. Suddenly for some reason they changed it though, I have no idea why.

This 2-5 PM alcohol ban is an forgotten law and had not been enforceed for some decades until Thaksin admin. brought it up.

I think it's very pointless law and think most Thai think so, except some ideal activists. The present gov. should drop it ASAP but they may be too busy trying to survive.

Alcohol ban on election day may serve some point. I believe that when the Thai citizens must have clear head just to vote for their representatives, the representatives themselves must also never drink at all during their term as they have to be responsible to the things greater than themselves.

I am tempted to give a comment on that bold marked line... but I hold my horses. Watch Thai TV... Cheers!

[Harcourt]

Is not only a matter of banning alcohol. Its power play IMHO

The legislative body must not turn into henchman for any religious interests.

Is Buddhism state religion in Thailand? Not yet! Equal freedom of religion for all is guaranteed and protected by His Majesty the King.

So Christians, Muslims - every religion is equal and could come up with similar demands.

Will their demands treated equally?

Spurious argument. You're suggesting that there should be no holidays in the name of any one religion, unless there are also holidays in the name of other religions. Not practical, and not suited to the majority in a democracy.....unless there were near equal followers of the various religions. It is democratic, not political.

It is also traditional. Many secular countries continue to follow the traditions of the majority, ie, hold public holidays on the religious festivals that the forebears held seriously. Christmas is observed as a holiday in many secular countries of Christian heritage. Id is observed in secular predominantly Muslim countries.

[oldsparrow]

The one forbidding sale of alcohol between 2-5 PM says to the rest of the world

They used to do this exact same thing in England a number of years ago, the bars would close for a few hours and then reopen later. Suddenly for some reason they changed it though, I have no idea why.

This 2-5 PM alcohol ban is an forgotten law and had not been enforceed for some decades until Thaksin admin. brought it up. I think it's very pointless law and think most Thai think so, except some ideal activists. The present gov. should drop it ASAP but they may be too busy trying to survive. Alcohol ban on election day may serve some point. I believe that when the Thai citizens must have clear head just to vote for their representatives, the representatives themselves must also never drink at all during their term as they have to be responsible to the things greater than themselves.

I am tempted to give a comment on that bold marked line... but I hold my horses. Watch Thai TV... Cheers!

I can't stand Thai TV, have not watched it for almost 15 years apart from coup announcement or political discussion (I am a Thai). For government contribution I know they now go to silly point and blur the bottle, smoking and sword play in period drama when it is too close to the neck. It was very much disappointed that they blur some scene throat cutting and bottle in the film Sweney Todd.

[webfact]

Is not only a matter of banning alcohol. Its power play IMHO

The legislative body must not turn into henchman for any religious interests.

Is Buddhism state religion in Thailand? Not yet! Equal freedom of religion for all is guaranteed and protected by His Majesty the King.

So Christians, Muslims - every religion is equal and could come up with similar demands.

Will their demands treated equally?

Spurious argument. You're suggesting that there should be no holidays in the name of any one religion, unless there are also holidays in the name of other religions. Not practical, and not suited to the majority in a democracy.....unless there were near equal followers of the various religions. It is democratic, not political.

It is also traditional. Many secular countries continue to follow the traditions of the majority, ie, hold public holidays on the religious festivals that the forebears held seriously. Christmas is observed as a holiday in many secular countries of Christian heritage. Id is observed in secular predominantly Muslim countries.

Did I say that in any of my posts?

I said "The legislative body must not turn into henchman for any religious interests.". And this will happen if the Buddhists pressure for an alcohol ban enforced by the government (a law), then Jews might request to ban driving on a Friday and so on... I was not talking about religious holidays.

[oldsparrow]

I think it's very pointless law and think most Thai think so, except some ideal activists. The present gov. should drop it ASAP but they may be too busy trying to survive. Alcohol ban on election day may serve some point. I believe that when the Thai citizens must have clear head just to vote for their representatives, the representatives themselves must also never drink at all during their term as they have to be responsible to the things greater than themselves.

I agree about the alcohol ban on voting days, i can see the logic of that.

I think that reasonable enough to ban sale on election day although I can't think of the problem when they didn't ban it. I think the ban has been introduced just in the last decade.

Yes, atheist has no ground to demand for the ceremony for their belief. In this point it's more let go of the world and can be even more effective for objective of some religion. I am not a believer and when the religion effect comes up I regard it as the social/political force.

[sbk]

Thanks for the very helpful non-answer, answer SBK....

I live in Thailand, and I know how they "try" to handle alcohol sales on Buddhist holidays....

My question was, what actual days are the "ban" days next week...and the entire Nation article makes no mention of the actual days... Good journalism...speaking as a former journalist...

For the record, the two Buddhist holidays next week are Tues and Weds., July 7 and 8.

Here's the link to TV's list of all the Thai holidays for 2009....

So what exact days are they talking about here.... Nice that the Nation article doesn't even bother to say...

I didn't quote the entire article but anyone who lives in Thailand would be aware that it is all major Buddhist holidays, such as the upcoming Khao Phansa.

"For the record", those are the days they are not allowed to sell alcohol. Amazing what you can find when you look it up yourself

On Koh Phangan the Full Moon Party is delayed every major Buddhist holiday (to the following day--so, this month it will be delayed two days) and "technically" bars are not allowed to sell alcohol on these days. And this has been in effect for several years now.

[Harcourt]

Is not only a matter of banning alcohol. Its power play IMHO

The legislative body must not turn into henchman for any religious interests.

Is Buddhism state religion in Thailand? Not yet! Equal freedom of religion for all is guaranteed and protected by His Majesty the King.

So Christians, Muslims - every religion is equal and could come up with similar demands.

Will their demands treated equally?

Spurious argument. You're suggesting that there should be no holidays in the name of any one religion, unless there are also holidays in the name of other religions. Not practical, and not suited to the majority in a democracy.....unless there were near equal followers of the various religions. It is democratic, not political.

It is also traditional. Many secular countries continue to follow the traditions of the majority, ie, hold public holidays on the religious festivals that the forebears held seriously. Christmas is observed as a holiday in many secular countries of Christian heritage. Id is observed in secular predominantly Muslim countries.

Did I say that in any of my posts?

I said "The legislative body must not turn into henchman for any religious interests.". And this will happen if the Buddhists pressure for an alcohol ban enforced by the government (a law), then Jews might request to ban driving on a Friday and so on... I was not talking about religious holidays.

Public holidays are legislated, including religious holidays. Many, if not most, public holidays in every country are religious....and legislated for.

Tie that in with what you wrote...

When you say, "The legislative body must not turn into henchman for any religious interests." , you are saying that they should not declare holidays on religious grounds.

You then follow with, "...Is Buddhism state religion in Thailand? Not yet! Equal freedom of religion for all is ...", and then suggest that other religions could make simmilar demands...... you are implying that the legislators should not pronounce a holiday for any one particular religion.

That's how I read your words, anyway.

I guess you are saying that the holiday itself is ok, but not the enforced behaviour of the public on that particular day.....and I can see your point there.... to a point.

What's the point of the religious holiday if not to observe the precepts of the religion?

As an atheist, I say legislate 12 (say) public holidays per year, and let them have no religious significance.....but as an atheist, I am a minority in many countries.

The reality is that the vast majority of Thailand is Buddhist. I respect that.

[bungy007]

I think the statement made by Prakit saying ""How can tourists can enjoy their holiday in Thailand without drinking?" is a bit over the top. It would mean that without drinking one cannot enjoy things. Sounds strange to me.

To answer the question: If Thailand forbids to drink on these days on religious grounds, than that is a part of Thailand, so as a visitor you will have to accept that too.

It's a fair point and another reason for those who come to Thailand for some much needed r&r to soul search before committing to the Kingdom. Do you really want to spend some of your precious holiday time observing alchohol bans on a religion you do not subscribe to? Better to choose a more tourist friendly destination without having to cope with yet another Thai hurdle.

[daoyai]

Never had a problem getting around the restrictions, just go to mom and pop store, wait until you are the only customer and and the they will probably sell. Or look for a bar or restaurant where everybody seems to be drinking coffee in big mugs, the beer bottle will be under the table. Govts. will always be....... we must function in spite of them.

[Jungian]

A lot of bars in the USA are still closed on Sunday and you can't buy alcohol in many states on Sunday, with the exception of South Dakota where you can buy all the beer you want just nothing hard... I think the law now is that food sales have to be equal or higher than alcohol sales and the bar can be opened (in most states). So, no it applies to everyone tourists are not exempt what would you do anyway to prove you are a tourist? I'm sure if you look closely you will find opened bars.

So because the good ol USA does it its a good thing ? Forcing religions dogma's onto others is wrong period.

No where in anything I posted does it say it is a good thing, I personally think it is down right ignorant. If you are in anyway implying I am religious I would give Professor Dr. Richard Dawkins a run for his money. In Thailand the primary reason they ban alcohol sales today is because of the amount of death caused by drinking and driving on holidays in general.

[darkstar1943]

We don't need a bunch of drunken, alcoholic tourists who can't go 2 days without drinking.

Let them go to Cambodia or wherever. Better to go into re-hab.

Darkstar

[sanook2me]

The Thai government should be embarrassed by the laws it makes regarding drinking. The one forbidding sale of alcohol between 2-5 PM says to the rest of the world, "Our people are like irresponsible children who won't stay at work/school and do what they're supposed to do, so we have to make draconian laws to ensure that they won't shirk their responsibilities and get drunk instead."

I disagree i am young enough to remember English pubs having to close in the afternoon and i was a teenager when they changed the rules in the 90's to open all day.

Now look at the problems on the streets that the police and ambulance service cannot deal with as they are short staffed and under funded.

Just pop to a moma and poppa shop they will sell the stuff its only Big C, 7-11 etc the multi chains who cannot sell.

Thats the fun of living here - some laws are just meant to be broken or ignored by the public

[MrHammer]

Anyone who can't go a few days without alchohol, thai or foreigner, needs to consider professional help.

[jackr]

I disagree i am young enough to remember English pubs having to close in the afternoon and i was a teenager when they changed the rules in the 90's to open all day.

Now look at the problems on the streets that the police and ambulance service cannot deal with as they are short staffed and under funded.

Can't blame opening hours all on that. One needs to also look at the mindset of the youth in the UK today

[Vang2x]

Alcohol ban on religious holidays

By Suchat Sritama

Kwanchai Rungfapaisarn

The Nation

Published on July 1, 2009

The government was dealing another severe blow to the already-battered tourism and entertainment industry by suddenly banning booze during Buddhist holidays next week, business leaders complained yesterday.

"This is the same old issue - the government rising up to destroy tourism. This does not parallel its tourism policy of increasing the number of visitors coming into the country," said Thai Hotels Association (THA) president Prakit Chinamourphong.

Enforcement of the decree would hurt tourism venues, especially clubs and restaurants located in hotels, as well as general tourist attractions.

"How can tourists can enjoy their holiday in Thailand without drinking? Like Phuket or Pattaya, they're coming for beaches and fun. They like to have beers and some drinks on the beach. If we ask them not to do so, they won't be happy," Prakit said.

The government should have communicated the order well in advance to foreign tourists, so they could plan their activities and celebrations better while staying in the country.

"I think it's good for locals to stop drinking during that time, but tourists will be upset," Prakit said.

Rest of article here:

The Nation

How do you think this should be handled for tourists? Should it be banned for tourists as well? Should they be able to drink in their hotels and guesthouses?

Is one law for locals and another law for guests feasible?

I know on Koh Phangan, that many places have ignored this requirement and I wonder if it will now be more strictly enforced?

I'm not sure what's the statistics in Thailad whether the crime increases in result to alcohol drinking but I do know there are more accidents on holidays. These accidents are generally on the road. When it's holiday, some people drink alcohol and many of them drive perhaps from their hometown. Fatalities happen along the way. Maybe the banning is to prevent accidents. That is aside from the fact if I heard it right, drinking is actually not recommended in Buddhist teaching.

[angiud]

I always wondering how alcohol related posts rise a so big dust. Like Mr Hammer said before: "Anyone who can't go a few days without alcohol, thai or foreigner, needs to consider professional help"

And one more thing: in my island, but I guess everywhere in Thailand, the many fund rising 1 week parties in the temple areas, are one of the main events where thai people drink. Inside the buddist temples! I see a contraddiction, but, I forgot, in the name of the holy baht...

[DaleBlue]

My bf make sure that the fridge is stock up before long holiday, election etc.

Bulk buy from Tesco.

[G54]

So much for the ban today.

On Saturday I am told the bars/clubs in a major hotel here are shut Tuesday and Wednesday.

Last night I am told it is business as usual. They are open and selling drinks.

First time I have known this to happen when there is a general ban on alcohol sales.

[mysterybkk]

So much for the ban today.

On Saturday I am told the bars/clubs in a major hotel here are shut Tuesday and Wednesday.

Last night I am told it is business as usual. They are open and selling drinks.

First time I have known this to happen when there is a general ban on alcohol sales.

i went out last night. i forgot about the holiday. i was served whiskey from a sprite bottle. they were kind enough to pour it in there so that my drinking would not be affected.... so much for adhering to the laws....

[geriatrickid]

I am delighted by this restriction for Lent. Last night, I walked down Bangla and onto the Beach Rd. It's as peaceful as Patong has ever been. Did not see any of the typical bars breaking the law and didn't see the usual beer guzzlers on the beach after lunch. Haven't seen or heard any tourists upset either. maybe they are too busy doing something that doesn't involve public drinking.

i don't see how this wrecked anything or spoiled anyone's vacation. if someone can't go 2 days without a drink, he or she has a bigger problem.

And btw, I drink and am an agnostic.

[babuhavas]

i guess many bars on sukhumvit soi 4 must be selling it.any info?