Even For A Nation Of Thieves.it's Never Too Late

[churchill]

Last week, an Abac Poll of 1,228 households in 17 provinces across Thailand found that 84.5% of respondents regarded cheating as a normal business practice and 51.2% said corruption by government officials was acceptable as long as it improved their living conditions. Similar surveys conducted over the past few years reached essentially the same conclusions regardless of respondents' geographical regions. Such findings clearly point out that Thailand is a nation made up largely of thieves who will cheat at every opportunity.

continued at http://www.bangkokpost.com/print/19913/eve...-never-too-late

-- Bangkok Post 09/07/09

[sheikxhoni]

continued at http://www.bangkokpost.com/print/19913/eve...-never-too-late

-- Bangkok Post 09/07/09

This excellent article goes on to say that there are four Thai characteristics that inhibit development and they are corruption (the subject of the article) and also laziness, ostentatiousness, and jealousy. I would add androgeny to that list. I am not sure how to explain the way this impacts development but I see a problem. On the one hand it is good that Thailand does not have issues regarding sexual preferences that can lead to violence in many other countries. But, on the other hand, some kind of traditional manliness is helpful regarding productivity, management and national defense. A huge number of young Thai men -if not gay - are very feminine with bouffont hair and girly shirts. (No wonder older farang men are popular.) Where else do you walk down the street and your head spins when you realize a woman who just walked past or the woman selling som can on the street is actually a man. There is another thread here that says that kathoeys got their own bathrooms in a school. Fine, except at some point this kind of break from the standards of the rest of the world will have an impact on Thai business. Maybe someday the entire world will be like Thailand. Maybe an unusually high percentage of men all over the world will openly want to be women. But for now Thailand stands alone as far as I know. This androgeny - along with monks - results in artificial skewing of the ratio of men to women. I believe this is partially explains for the high rate of prostitution and the popularity of farang men. Thai women suffer the consequence of an imbalance of acceptable Thai male partners - and they "settle". COMMENTS - -

[robblok]

This excellent article goes on to say that there are four Thai characteristics that inhibit development and they are corruption (the subject of the article) and also laziness, ostentatiousness, and jealousy. I would add androgeny to that list. I am not sure how to explain the way this impacts development but I see a problem. On the one hand it is good that Thailand does not have issues regarding sexual preferences that can lead to violence in many other countries. But, on the other hand, some kind of traditional manliness is helpful regarding productivity, management and national defense. A huge number of young Thai men -if not gay - are very feminine with bouffont hair and girly shirts. (No wonder older farang men are popular.) Where else do you walk down the street and your head spins when you realize a woman who just walked past or the woman selling som can on the street is actually a man. There is another thread here that says that kathoeys got their own bathrooms in a school. Fine, except at some point this kind of break from the standards of the rest of the world will have an impact on Thai business. Maybe someday the entire world will be like Thailand. Maybe an unusually high percentage of men all over the world will openly want to be women. But for now Thailand stands alone as far as I know. This androgeny - along with monks - results in artificial skewing of the ratio of men to women. I believe this is partially explains for the high rate of prostitution and the popularity of farang men. Thai women suffer the consequence of an imbalance of acceptable Thai male partners - and they "settle". COMMENTS - -

Sounds like you have a katoi phobia and link it to other issues. I don't see a problem with gays and katoi's.

Corruption that is a big problem and has nothing to do with what your rattling on about.

[verydumbubba]

Thailand is just fine - the other more 'developed' Asian countries simply have a larger, Caucasian rug.

Bubba

[IanForbes]

I tend not to worry about averages or statistics. With one foot in boiling water and one foot in ice water the average says you should be comfortable. I deal with everyone at face value, one on one, and not trust anyone with anything I can't afford to lose and walk away from. I don't worry about cheats. If a deal looks too good to be true then it probably is. I only gamble with what I EXPECT to lose... and consider it the price of playing the game.

I don't care HOW many katoy there are, or how many cheating hookers, or how many time share salesmen. If I get burned it's only because I've been foolish. I can't alter my own countries decisions so I certainly can't expect to have any effect on a foreign countries decisions... no matter how foolish they may appear. Right now I enjoy Thailand for what it offers me personally. I can't concern myself with its policies no matter how much they might affect me in the future.

[geriatrickid]

This excellent article goes on to say that there are four Thai characteristics that inhibit development and they are corruption (the subject of the article) and also laziness, ostentatiousness, and jealousy. I would add androgeny snip". COMMENTS - -

Nice try at stirring up the masses.

Yes corruption is bad and it is ingrained into the woodwork. It's the grease that makes the wheels roll and is why Thailand, despite having a large population will never be taken seriously or pose a threat to world peace. From the perspective of alot of nations that works just fine. No need for another competitor.

[JohnGotti]

i learned a new word.

funny post., sheik.

[ThaiLife]

Any one know if this article is in Thai any where , so I can let my wife read it

[tomyamgoong]

555555 sheick

I can not imagine that your post is anything other than a hoax, congrats, I almost bought it.

If its not, i wonder from what country you were born form, and how you mind works, because your thinking seems an auwful lot more primitive than that of the fine people of this upstanding society of Thailand.

The statesmen of many "developed" countries seek to improve the tolerance and acceptance of its' own citizens towards these minorities in their respective countries, and see Thailands' Bhuddist driven tolerance as a premium example of how we could achieve that.

So if your post is not a joke, you better pack your firestones and stone axe, and move to an even deeper hole in the ground.

[Scott]

In nature there is probably a well established reason for a balance in the sexes and this no doubt affects social norms. I think that is really the topic of a whole different debate, however. If we follow this thinking it would lead us to the conclusion that men are somehow more honest/less corrupt. This is because manliness is largely absent from Thai society. I doubt this is true and it could lead to a senseless debate between the superiority of men to women or vice versa.

Different societies have different ways of attempting to control behavior. In much of Asia, control is seen as external and in many Western countries, it's seen as internal. Westerners are brought up to believe that stealing is wrong and it is up to me not to steal whether I am being watched or not. In Asia, it's up to the watchers to prevent theft (corruption and whatever other evils people tend to do). This is a very simplistic way of looking at it, I know.

[christcourt]

This excellent article goes on to say that there are four Thai characteristics that inhibit development and they are corruption (the subject of the article) and also laziness, ostentatiousness, and jealousy. I would add androgeny to that list. I am not sure how to explain the way this impacts development but I see a problem. On the one hand it is good that Thailand does not have issues regarding sexual preferences that can lead to violence in many other countries. But, on the other hand, some kind of traditional manliness is helpful regarding productivity, management and national defense. A huge number of young Thai men -if not gay - are very feminine with bouffont hair and girly shirts. (No wonder older farang men are popular.) Where else do you walk down the street and your head spins when you realize a woman who just walked past or the woman selling som can on the street is actually a man. There is another thread here that says that kathoeys got their own bathrooms in a school. Fine, except at some point this kind of break from the standards of the rest of the world will have an impact on Thai business. Maybe someday the entire world will be like Thailand. Maybe an unusually high percentage of men all over the world will openly want to be women. But for now Thailand stands alone as far as I know. This androgeny - along with monks - results in artificial skewing of the ratio of men to women. I believe this is partially explains for the high rate of prostitution and the popularity of farang men. Thai women suffer the consequence of an imbalance of acceptable Thai male partners - and they "settle". COMMENTS - -

Sounds like you have a katoi phobia and link it to other issues. I don't see a problem with gays and katoi's.

Corruption that is a big problem and has nothing to do with what your rattling on about.

Way to go "Robblok" Nice One!!

[JR Texas]

This excellent article goes on to say that there are four Thai characteristics that inhibit development and they are corruption (the subject of the article) and also laziness, ostentatiousness, and jealousy. I would add androgeny to that list. I am not sure how to explain the way this impacts development but I see a problem. On the one hand it is good that Thailand does not have issues regarding sexual preferences that can lead to violence in many other countries. But, on the other hand, some kind of traditional manliness is helpful regarding productivity, management and national defense. A huge number of young Thai men -if not gay - are very feminine with bouffont hair and girly shirts. (No wonder older farang men are popular.) Where else do you walk down the street and your head spins when you realize a woman who just walked past or the woman selling som can on the street is actually a man. There is another thread here that says that kathoeys got their own bathrooms in a school. Fine, except at some point this kind of break from the standards of the rest of the world will have an impact on Thai business. Maybe someday the entire world will be like Thailand. Maybe an unusually high percentage of men all over the world will openly want to be women. But for now Thailand stands alone as far as I know. This androgeny - along with monks - results in artificial skewing of the ratio of men to women. I believe this is partially explains for the high rate of prostitution and the popularity of farang men. Thai women suffer the consequence of an imbalance of acceptable Thai male partners - and they "settle". COMMENTS - -

Sounds like you have a katoi phobia and link it to other issues. I don't see a problem with gays and katoi's.

Corruption that is a big problem and has nothing to do with what your rattling on about.

Way to go "Robblok" Nice One!!

Without question Thailand is ignoring any moral base it has with regard to corruption and cheating.....when the larger public accepts corruption as a way of life, the entire society deserves to suffer the negative consequences.

The solution, I think, begins with parents. They have to teach their children about right and wrong. Having said that, when people (not all of course) fall into extreme poverty, morality tends to take second stage to selfishness.

Survival instincts kick in.......behaviors that once seemed unthinkable start falling into the realm of rationality. And Thais are experts at rationalizing negative behavior.

[brianinbangkok]

" Even For A Nation Of Thieves.it's Never Too Late"

Forum rules:

8) Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais.

Even if its a quote from BKK Post ?

Edited July 10, 2009 by brianinbangkok

[norwayeagle]

This excellent article goes on to say that there are four Thai characteristics that inhibit development and they are corruption (the subject of the article) and also laziness, ostentatiousness, and jealousy. I would add androgeny to that list. I am not sure how to explain the way this impacts development but I see a problem. On the one hand it is good that Thailand does not have issues regarding sexual preferences that can lead to violence in many other countries. But, on the other hand, some kind of traditional manliness is helpful regarding productivity, management and national defense. A huge number of young Thai men -if not gay - are very feminine with bouffont hair and girly shirts. (No wonder older farang men are popular.) Where else do you walk down the street and your head spins when you realize a woman who just walked past or the woman selling som can on the street is actually a man. There is another thread here that says that kathoeys got their own bathrooms in a school. Fine, except at some point this kind of break from the standards of the rest of the world will have an impact on Thai business. Maybe someday the entire world will be like Thailand. Maybe an unusually high percentage of men all over the world will openly want to be women. But for now Thailand stands alone as far as I know. This androgeny - along with monks - results in artificial skewing of the ratio of men to women. I believe this is partially explains for the high rate of prostitution and the popularity of farang men. Thai women suffer the consequence of an imbalance of acceptable Thai male partners - and they "settle". COMMENTS - -

Sounds like you have a katoi phobia and link it to other issues. I don't see a problem with gays and katoi's.

Corruption that is a big problem and has nothing to do with what your rattling on about.

Way to go "Robblok" Nice One!!

Ditto!

[norwayeagle]

" Even For A Nation Of Thieves.it's Never Too Late"

Forum rules:

8) Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais.

Even if its a quote from BKK Post ?

The forumrules are like the Bible and Kouran.It depends on who reads them.Every1 have their own

Interpretation.Obviously.

[revive]

@Churchill (original poster) Great posting !

@sheikxhoni - Finally, someone who 'tells it like they see it'. I couldn't agree more that the men here need to be more like 'men',. respecting their women - not degrading and abusing them, they need to loose the girlie shirts and tight black jeans, lead their families and be men of their words.

@ robblok, christcourt, norwayeagle - if you don't see a problem with the Katoys,.. you need to open your eyes. Being something you're not, whether it's a masculan-wanna-be-male lesbian or a danty-feminine-lady-boy is damaging to any countries social standards. (norwayeagle - you especially need to seek some help my friend)

@ verydumbubba - well, I think your name says it all... well chosen.

@ IanForbes - get real. Yes, averages and statisitics can be misleading.. but come on, the point of this post is that people here don't see what the effects of some of their actions are. See below ..

@ geriatrickid - great point about the corruption... and well said. It's sad that Thailand is continued to be viewed as a struggling-3rd-world-country.. when it could be so much more.. and I do NOT mean more commercialized, I mean more Thai,.. more of what the Thai people are 'said' to stand for..

@ tomyamgoong - first of all, learn how to write in ENGLISH, on an english board. Secondly, your simply ignorant if you can sit there and honestly say that there's not rroom for serious improvement in these two areas - corruption and feminine men. If that is truly your position, then maybe it is you who is in the deepest hole of all..

@ Scott - you have some good points.. and I think mainly, making sure this ISN'T a 'senseless debate between the superiority of men to women or vice versa'.. is very valid. However, no one said anything about superiority.. the OP and second poster are referring to CHARACTER.. the character of men in this country is, by all definitions in the world, has been very acceptable to be feminine and corrupt - maybe not in the same person mind you . They are two extremes, the katoy character is denying the responsibility of being a supporter and leader by being feminine and 'soft', the corrupt character is excercising a power and control kick to take advantage of people to their own benefit.. both are equally damaging.

@ JR Texas - couldn't have said it better myself.. parents need to take responsiblity for educating their children about morals, ethics, etc.. Gotta start somewhere..

The truth of the matter is Thais could care less if the government is corrupt as long as it improves their way of life... this shows a MAJOR opportunity for improvement in the thought processes of these people. Thailand is a beautiful country, with a wonder culture and great people.. they deserver to live a better life - even if they don't know what that means, what it 'looks like' or how to get there. Take, for example, the concept of accepting a corrupt government as long as it improves your personal way of life.. sounds great.. EXCEPT, when YOU end up on the other end of that corruption.. not so fun. Not working out as you had planned. Hence, a little education on the effects of some of their actions and choices, especially when intended to help improve that same way of life, should be offered when possible. Couple this with the widely acceptable femininity of males.. and you have a social development problem.. which you can see effects of almost anywhere in Thailand. If the men here were more honorable, respectable and 'took care of business',.. the women wouldn't be flogging themselves at every foreigner that walks by. It's not like this in other coutries, EVEN WHERE PROSTIUTION IS LEGAL! So, you can't put it off on, 'They just do it to make money, etc.'. No, they do it for lack of a decent selection in the local 'dating pool' !

I would apologize for the rant, or if this offends someone, but to be blunt... I don't mind if it offends you, as long as you can see that there is truly a problem here,.. that maybe you, I or someone we know will have the opportunity to help these wonderful people truly improve their lives and relationships. All in all... I think the intention of everyone on this board, aside from those less endowed with mental ability, is to HELP Thailand.. not hurt it.

Cheers

[norwayeagle]

@Churchill (original poster) Great posting !

@sheikxhoni - Finally, someone who 'tells it like they see it'. I couldn't agree more that the men here need to be more like 'men',. respecting their women - not degrading and abusing them, they need to loose the girlie shirts and tight black jeans, lead their families and be men of their words.

@ robblok, christcourt, norwayeagle - if you don't see a problem with the Katoys,.. you need to open your eyes. Being something you're not, whether it's a masculan-wanna-be-male lesbian or a danty-feminine-lady-boy is damaging to any countries social standards. (norwayeagle - you especially need to seek some help my friend)

@ verydumbubba - well, I think your name says it all... well chosen.

@ IanForbes - get real. Yes, averages and statisitics can be misleading.. but come on, the point of this post is that people here don't see what the effects of some of their actions are. See below ..

@ geriatrickid - great point about the corruption... and well said. It's sad that Thailand is continued to be viewed as a struggling-3rd-world-country.. when it could be so much more.. and I do NOT mean more commercialized, I mean more Thai,.. more of what the Thai people are 'said' to stand for..

@ tomyamgoong - first of all, learn how to write in ENGLISH, on an english board. Secondly, your simply ignorant if you can sit there and honestly say that there's not rroom for serious improvement in these two areas - corruption and feminine men. If that is truly your position, then maybe it is you who is in the deepest hole of all..

@ Scott - you have some good points.. and I think mainly, making sure this ISN'T a 'senseless debate between the superiority of men to women or vice versa'.. is very valid. However, no one said anything about superiority.. the OP and second poster are referring to CHARACTER.. the character of men in this country is, by all definitions in the world, has been very acceptable to be feminine and corrupt - maybe not in the same person mind you . They are two extremes, the katoy character is denying the responsibility of being a supporter and leader by being feminine and 'soft', the corrupt character is excercising a power and control kick to take advantage of people to their own benefit.. both are equally damaging.

@ JR Texas - couldn't have said it better myself.. parents need to take responsiblity for educating their children about morals, ethics, etc.. Gotta start somewhere..

The truth of the matter is Thais could care less if the government is corrupt as long as it improves their way of life... this shows a MAJOR opportunity for improvement in the thought processes of these people. Thailand is a beautiful country, with a wonder culture and great people.. they deserver to live a better life - even if they don't know what that means, what it 'looks like' or how to get there. Take, for example, the concept of accepting a corrupt government as long as it improves your personal way of life.. sounds great.. EXCEPT, when YOU end up on the other end of that corruption.. not so fun. Not working out as you had planned. Hence, a little education on the effects of some of their actions and choices, especially when intended to help improve that same way of life, should be offered when possible. Couple this with the widely acceptable femininity of males.. and you have a social development problem.. which you can see effects of almost anywhere in Thailand. If the men here were more honorable, respectable and 'took care of business',.. the women wouldn't be flogging themselves at every foreigner that walks by. It's not like this in other coutries, EVEN WHERE PROSTIUTION IS LEGAL! So, you can't put it off on, 'They just do it to make money, etc.'. No, they do it for lack of a decent selection in the local 'dating pool' !

I would apologize for the rant, or if this offends someone, but to be blunt... I don't mind if it offends you, as long as you can see that there is truly a problem here,.. that maybe you, I or someone we know will have the opportunity to help these wonderful people truly improve their lives and relationships. All in all... I think the intention of everyone on this board, aside from those less endowed with mental ability, is to HELP Thailand.. not hurt it.

Cheers

Hehe.why you say like that ?What u know? Nothing really.Yes we all got "help",but in my case it ended up with talking about the problems of the Military psychiatric.He also said what u have gone thru most people would be insane looong time ago...Living in another world 2 u My "friend" ...

[tomyamgoong]

@Churchill (original poster) Great posting !

@sheikxhoni - Finally, someone who 'tells it like they see it'. I couldn't agree more that the men here need to be more like 'men',. respecting their women - not degrading and abusing them, they need to loose the girlie shirts and tight black jeans, lead their families and be men of their words.

@ robblok, christcourt, norwayeagle - if you don't see a problem with the Katoys,.. you need to open your eyes. Being something you're not, whether it's a masculan-wanna-be-male lesbian or a danty-feminine-lady-boy is damaging to any countries social standards. (norwayeagle - you especially need to seek some help my friend)

@ verydumbubba - well, I think your name says it all... well chosen.

@ IanForbes - get real. Yes, averages and statisitics can be misleading.. but come on, the point of this post is that people here don't see what the effects of some of their actions are. See below ..

@ geriatrickid - great point about the corruption... and well said. It's sad that Thailand is continued to be viewed as a struggling-3rd-world-country.. when it could be so much more.. and I do NOT mean more commercialized, I mean more Thai,.. more of what the Thai people are 'said' to stand for..

@ tomyamgoong - first of all, learn how to write in ENGLISH, on an english board. Secondly, your simply ignorant if you can sit there and honestly say that there's not rroom for serious improvement in these two areas - corruption and feminine men. If that is truly your position, then maybe it is you who is in the deepest hole of all..

@ Scott - you have some good points.. and I think mainly, making sure this ISN'T a 'senseless debate between the superiority of men to women or vice versa'.. is very valid. However, no one said anything about superiority.. the OP and second poster are referring to CHARACTER.. the character of men in this country is, by all definitions in the world, has been very acceptable to be feminine and corrupt - maybe not in the same person mind you . They are two extremes, the katoy character is denying the responsibility of being a supporter and leader by being feminine and 'soft', the corrupt character is excercising a power and control kick to take advantage of people to their own benefit.. both are equally damaging.

@ JR Texas - couldn't have said it better myself.. parents need to take responsiblity for educating their children about morals, ethics, etc.. Gotta start somewhere..

The truth of the matter is Thais could care less if the government is corrupt as long as it improves their way of life... this shows a MAJOR opportunity for improvement in the thought processes of these people. Thailand is a beautiful country, with a wonder culture and great people.. they deserver to live a better life - even if they don't know what that means, what it 'looks like' or how to get there. Take, for example, the concept of accepting a corrupt government as long as it improves your personal way of life.. sounds great.. EXCEPT, when YOU end up on the other end of that corruption.. not so fun. Not working out as you had planned. Hence, a little education on the effects of some of their actions and choices, especially when intended to help improve that same way of life, should be offered when possible. Couple this with the widely acceptable femininity of males.. and you have a social development problem.. which you can see effects of almost anywhere in Thailand. If the men here were more honorable, respectable and 'took care of business',.. the women wouldn't be flogging themselves at every foreigner that walks by. It's not like this in other coutries, EVEN WHERE PROSTIUTION IS LEGAL! So, you can't put it off on, 'They just do it to make money, etc.'. No, they do it for lack of a decent selection in the local 'dating pool' !

I would apologize for the rant, or if this offends someone, but to be blunt... I don't mind if it offends you, as long as you can see that there is truly a problem here,.. that maybe you, I or someone we know will have the opportunity to help these wonderful people truly improve their lives and relationships. All in all... I think the intention of everyone on this board, aside from those less endowed with mental ability, is to HELP Thailand.. not hurt it.

Cheers

I wonder what Devine Power gave you the right to "HELP" Thailand. I smell imperialism.

[norwayeagle]

@Churchill (original poster) Great posting !

@sheikxhoni - Finally, someone who 'tells it like they see it'. I couldn't agree more that the men here need to be more like 'men',. respecting their women - not degrading and abusing them, they need to loose the girlie shirts and tight black jeans, lead their families and be men of their words.

@ robblok, christcourt, norwayeagle - if you don't see a problem with the Katoys,.. you need to open your eyes. Being something you're not, whether it's a masculan-wanna-be-male lesbian or a danty-feminine-lady-boy is damaging to any countries social standards. (norwayeagle - you especially need to seek some help my friend)

@ verydumbubba - well, I think your name says it all... well chosen.

@ IanForbes - get real. Yes, averages and statisitics can be misleading.. but come on, the point of this post is that people here don't see what the effects of some of their actions are. See below ..

@ geriatrickid - great point about the corruption... and well said. It's sad that Thailand is continued to be viewed as a struggling-3rd-world-country.. when it could be so much more.. and I do NOT mean more commercialized, I mean more Thai,.. more of what the Thai people are 'said' to stand for..

@ tomyamgoong - first of all, learn how to write in ENGLISH, on an english board. Secondly, your simply ignorant if you can sit there and honestly say that there's not rroom for serious improvement in these two areas - corruption and feminine men. If that is truly your position, then maybe it is you who is in the deepest hole of all..

@ Scott - you have some good points.. and I think mainly, making sure this ISN'T a 'senseless debate between the superiority of men to women or vice versa'.. is very valid. However, no one said anything about superiority.. the OP and second poster are referring to CHARACTER.. the character of men in this country is, by all definitions in the world, has been very acceptable to be feminine and corrupt - maybe not in the same person mind you . They are two extremes, the katoy character is denying the responsibility of being a supporter and leader by being feminine and 'soft', the corrupt character is excercising a power and control kick to take advantage of people to their own benefit.. both are equally damaging.

@ JR Texas - couldn't have said it better myself.. parents need to take responsiblity for educating their children about morals, ethics, etc.. Gotta start somewhere..

The truth of the matter is Thais could care less if the government is corrupt as long as it improves their way of life... this shows a MAJOR opportunity for improvement in the thought processes of these people. Thailand is a beautiful country, with a wonder culture and great people.. they deserver to live a better life - even if they don't know what that means, what it 'looks like' or how to get there. Take, for example, the concept of accepting a corrupt government as long as it improves your personal way of life.. sounds great.. EXCEPT, when YOU end up on the other end of that corruption.. not so fun. Not working out as you had planned. Hence, a little education on the effects of some of their actions and choices, especially when intended to help improve that same way of life, should be offered when possible. Couple this with the widely acceptable femininity of males.. and you have a social development problem.. which you can see effects of almost anywhere in Thailand. If the men here were more honorable, respectable and 'took care of business',.. the women wouldn't be flogging themselves at every foreigner that walks by. It's not like this in other coutries, EVEN WHERE PROSTIUTION IS LEGAL! So, you can't put it off on, 'They just do it to make money, etc.'. No, they do it for lack of a decent selection in the local 'dating pool' !

I would apologize for the rant, or if this offends someone, but to be blunt... I don't mind if it offends you, as long as you can see that there is truly a problem here,.. that maybe you, I or someone we know will have the opportunity to help these wonderful people truly improve their lives and relationships. All in all... I think the intention of everyone on this board, aside from those less endowed with mental ability, is to HELP Thailand.. not hurt it.

Cheers

I wonder what Devine Power gave you the right to "HELP" Thailand. I smell imperialism.

Hm Revive, i send u a mail about why u insult me,and u say am flaming the poster ,Hm In what way?.I say ditto,n about Rules Translation and example the Bible and Kouran.whats "flaming" about that? Tell me ,i cant see it,U Divinegiven man ,( that may b Flaming 2 say) Hm

[revive]

@Churchill (original poster) Great posting !

@sheikxhoni - Finally, someone who 'tells it like they see it'. I couldn't agree more that the men here need to be more like 'men',. respecting their women - not degrading and abusing them, they need to loose the girlie shirts and tight black jeans, lead their families and be men of their words.

@ robblok, christcourt, norwayeagle - if you don't see a problem with the Katoys,.. you need to open your eyes. Being something you're not, whether it's a masculan-wanna-be-male lesbian or a danty-feminine-lady-boy is damaging to any countries social standards. (norwayeagle - you especially need to seek some help my friend)

@ verydumbubba - well, I think your name says it all... well chosen.

@ IanForbes - get real. Yes, averages and statisitics can be misleading.. but come on, the point of this post is that people here don't see what the effects of some of their actions are. See below ..

@ geriatrickid - great point about the corruption... and well said. It's sad that Thailand is continued to be viewed as a struggling-3rd-world-country.. when it could be so much more.. and I do NOT mean more commercialized, I mean more Thai,.. more of what the Thai people are 'said' to stand for..

@ tomyamgoong - first of all, learn how to write in ENGLISH, on an english board. Secondly, your simply ignorant if you can sit there and honestly say that there's not rroom for serious improvement in these two areas - corruption and feminine men. If that is truly your position, then maybe it is you who is in the deepest hole of all..

@ Scott - you have some good points.. and I think mainly, making sure this ISN'T a 'senseless debate between the superiority of men to women or vice versa'.. is very valid. However, no one said anything about superiority.. the OP and second poster are referring to CHARACTER.. the character of men in this country is, by all definitions in the world, has been very acceptable to be feminine and corrupt - maybe not in the same person mind you . They are two extremes, the katoy character is denying the responsibility of being a supporter and leader by being feminine and 'soft', the corrupt character is excercising a power and control kick to take advantage of people to their own benefit.. both are equally damaging.

@ JR Texas - couldn't have said it better myself.. parents need to take responsiblity for educating their children about morals, ethics, etc.. Gotta start somewhere..

The truth of the matter is Thais could care less if the government is corrupt as long as it improves their way of life... this shows a MAJOR opportunity for improvement in the thought processes of these people. Thailand is a beautiful country, with a wonder culture and great people.. they deserver to live a better life - even if they don't know what that means, what it 'looks like' or how to get there. Take, for example, the concept of accepting a corrupt government as long as it improves your personal way of life.. sounds great.. EXCEPT, when YOU end up on the other end of that corruption.. not so fun. Not working out as you had planned. Hence, a little education on the effects of some of their actions and choices, especially when intended to help improve that same way of life, should be offered when possible. Couple this with the widely acceptable femininity of males.. and you have a social development problem.. which you can see effects of almost anywhere in Thailand. If the men here were more honorable, respectable and 'took care of business',.. the women wouldn't be flogging themselves at every foreigner that walks by. It's not like this in other coutries, EVEN WHERE PROSTIUTION IS LEGAL! So, you can't put it off on, 'They just do it to make money, etc.'. No, they do it for lack of a decent selection in the local 'dating pool' !

I would apologize for the rant, or if this offends someone, but to be blunt... I don't mind if it offends you, as long as you can see that there is truly a problem here,.. that maybe you, I or someone we know will have the opportunity to help these wonderful people truly improve their lives and relationships. All in all... I think the intention of everyone on this board, aside from those less endowed with mental ability, is to HELP Thailand.. not hurt it.

Cheers

I wonder what Devine Power gave you the right to "HELP" Thailand. I smell imperialism.

You should have your nose checked.. this ISN'T about me, or you.. it's about helping others.. Heck, even if you want to be totally self seeking here do it for that fact that what goes around comes around.. either way,.. you got to look at the intention here.. the orig poster and second poster have valid points.. whether you choose to see that or not, is your decision. And for what it's worth, half of my family is Thai..so, yes, I am familiar with the Thai and the Farang side of these issues.. and it does effect everyone..

[norwayeagle]

@Churchill (original poster) Great posting !

@sheikxhoni - Finally, someone who 'tells it like they see it'. I couldn't agree more that the men here need to be more like 'men',. respecting their women - not degrading and abusing them, they need to loose the girlie shirts and tight black jeans, lead their families and be men of their words.

@ robblok, christcourt, norwayeagle - if you don't see a problem with the Katoys,.. you need to open your eyes. Being something you're not, whether it's a masculan-wanna-be-male lesbian or a danty-feminine-lady-boy is damaging to any countries social standards. (norwayeagle - you especially need to seek some help my friend)

@ verydumbubba - well, I think your name says it all... well chosen.

@ IanForbes - get real. Yes, averages and statisitics can be misleading.. but come on, the point of this post is that people here don't see what the effects of some of their actions are. See below ..

@ geriatrickid - great point about the corruption... and well said. It's sad that Thailand is continued to be viewed as a struggling-3rd-world-country.. when it could be so much more.. and I do NOT mean more commercialized, I mean more Thai,.. more of what the Thai people are 'said' to stand for..

@ tomyamgoong - first of all, learn how to write in ENGLISH, on an english board. Secondly, your simply ignorant if you can sit there and honestly say that there's not rroom for serious improvement in these two areas - corruption and feminine men. If that is truly your position, then maybe it is you who is in the deepest hole of all..

@ Scott - you have some good points.. and I think mainly, making sure this ISN'T a 'senseless debate between the superiority of men to women or vice versa'.. is very valid. However, no one said anything about superiority.. the OP and second poster are referring to CHARACTER.. the character of men in this country is, by all definitions in the world, has been very acceptable to be feminine and corrupt - maybe not in the same person mind you . They are two extremes, the katoy character is denying the responsibility of being a supporter and leader by being feminine and 'soft', the corrupt character is excercising a power and control kick to take advantage of people to their own benefit.. both are equally damaging.

@ JR Texas - couldn't have said it better myself.. parents need to take responsiblity for educating their children about morals, ethics, etc.. Gotta start somewhere..

The truth of the matter is Thais could care less if the government is corrupt as long as it improves their way of life... this shows a MAJOR opportunity for improvement in the thought processes of these people. Thailand is a beautiful country, with a wonder culture and great people.. they deserver to live a better life - even if they don't know what that means, what it 'looks like' or how to get there. Take, for example, the concept of accepting a corrupt government as long as it improves your personal way of life.. sounds great.. EXCEPT, when YOU end up on the other end of that corruption.. not so fun. Not working out as you had planned. Hence, a little education on the effects of some of their actions and choices, especially when intended to help improve that same way of life, should be offered when possible. Couple this with the widely acceptable femininity of males.. and you have a social development problem.. which you can see effects of almost anywhere in Thailand. If the men here were more honorable, respectable and 'took care of business',.. the women wouldn't be flogging themselves at every foreigner that walks by. It's not like this in other coutries, EVEN WHERE PROSTIUTION IS LEGAL! So, you can't put it off on, 'They just do it to make money, etc.'. No, they do it for lack of a decent selection in the local 'dating pool' !

I would apologize for the rant, or if this offends someone, but to be blunt... I don't mind if it offends you, as long as you can see that there is truly a problem here,.. that maybe you, I or someone we know will have the opportunity to help these wonderful people truly improve their lives and relationships. All in all... I think the intention of everyone on this board, aside from those less endowed with mental ability, is to HELP Thailand.. not hurt it.

Cheers

I wonder what Devine Power gave you the right to "HELP" Thailand. I smell imperialism.

You should have your nose checked.. this ISN'T about me, or you.. it's about helping others.. Heck, even if you want to be totally self seeking here do it for that fact that what goes around comes around.. either way,.. you got to look at the intention here.. the orig poster and second poster have valid points.. whether you choose to see that or not, is your decision. And for what it's worth, half of my family is Thai..so, yes, I am familiar with the Thai and the Farang side of these issues.. and it does effect everyone..

Who is flaming who? You better stay away,it comes nothing good out of ur comments.!

[MaiChai]

Its quite scary that even as Thailand modernizes, the old ways of thinking are ingrained. Compare to countries like Malaysia and Singapore where modern rational/logical thinking is part of the education system (as well as being taught about technology, science, students are also taught to think logically/reason). What worries me is that young people are being brought up in this way, which means you won't see an improvement in the next generation of Thais.

I also have this problem with my kids; I have taken them away from my wife, and she has brought them up in 'the Thai way'. Its a real battle trying to get them to tell the truth or be honest! Not to mention the step daughter an Uni who lies to me all the time about why she needs money, that I don't believe a word she says now. I am starting to believe only my gf is the honest Thai in Thailand (there are some honest/straight people about)!

I don't want to criticize Thais, but thats the way it is!

[robblok]

@ robblok, christcourt, norwayeagle - if you don't see a problem with the Katoys,.. you need to open your eyes. Being something you're not, whether it's a masculan-wanna-be-male lesbian or a danty-feminine-lady-boy is damaging to any countries social standards. (norwayeagle - you especially need to seek some help my friend)

You are really narrow minded, i like the way Thailand is katoi, gays and all. I hate it when people tell others how to behave especially if they are narrow minded.

Personally i could never be attracted to either a gay or katoi but that doesnt mean they dont have a right to be what they want to be. They dont bother anyone. Sure there are some anoying ones around but there are a lot more idiot farangs around.

[norwayeagle]

@ robblok, christcourt, norwayeagle - if you don't see a problem with the Katoys,.. you need to open your eyes. Being something you're not, whether it's a masculan-wanna-be-male lesbian or a danty-feminine-lady-boy is damaging to any countries social standards. (norwayeagle - you especially need to seek some help my friend)

You are really narrow minded, i like the way Thailand is katoi, gays and all. I hate it when people tell others how to behave especially if they are narrow minded.

Personally i could never be attracted to either a gay or katoi but that doesnt mean they dont have a right to be what they want to be. They dont bother anyone. Sure there are some anoying ones around but there are a lot more idiot farangs around.

Well said Robblok

[BusyBee123]

'With such a mindset, no further explanation should be needed as to why Thailand has not been able to attain the level of development achieved by other Asian countries such as Japan and South Korea despite having relatively more natural resources'

yes japan has had a wonderful last 20 years

if thailand can't be bothered hiding it's corruption it doesn't make it any worse than western countries that do. I applaud thailand for not giving a shit sometimes.

As for the Bangkok Post

[robbo1]

@ robblok, christcourt, norwayeagle - if you don't see a problem with the Katoys,.. you need to open your eyes. Being something you're not, whether it's a masculan-wanna-be-male lesbian or a danty-feminine-lady-boy is damaging to any countries social standards. (norwayeagle - you especially need to seek some help my friend)

You are really narrow minded, i like the way Thailand is katoi, gays and all. I hate it when people tell others how to behave especially if they are narrow minded.

Personally i could never be attracted to either a gay or katoi but that doesnt mean they dont have a right to be what they want to be. They dont bother anyone. Sure there are some anoying ones around but there are a lot more idiot farangs around.

Totaly agree robblok they have never done me any harm in fact they put on some great shows which is usually full with tourists

[tomyamgoong]

@Churchill (original poster) Great posting !

@sheikxhoni - Finally, someone who 'tells it like they see it'. I couldn't agree more that the men here need to be more like 'men',. respecting their women - not degrading and abusing them, they need to loose the girlie shirts and tight black jeans, lead their families and be men of their words.

@ robblok, christcourt, norwayeagle - if you don't see a problem with the Katoys,.. you need to open your eyes. Being something you're not, whether it's a masculan-wanna-be-male lesbian or a danty-feminine-lady-boy is damaging to any countries social standards. (norwayeagle - you especially need to seek some help my friend)

@ verydumbubba - well, I think your name says it all... well chosen.

@ IanForbes - get real. Yes, averages and statisitics can be misleading.. but come on, the point of this post is that people here don't see what the effects of some of their actions are. See below ..

@ geriatrickid - great point about the corruption... and well said. It's sad that Thailand is continued to be viewed as a struggling-3rd-world-country.. when it could be so much more.. and I do NOT mean more commercialized, I mean more Thai,.. more of what the Thai people are 'said' to stand for..

@ tomyamgoong - first of all, learn how to write in ENGLISH, on an english board. Secondly, your simply ignorant if you can sit there and honestly say that there's not rroom for serious improvement in these two areas - corruption and feminine men. If that is truly your position, then maybe it is you who is in the deepest hole of all..

@ Scott - you have some good points.. and I think mainly, making sure this ISN'T a 'senseless debate between the superiority of men to women or vice versa'.. is very valid. However, no one said anything about superiority.. the OP and second poster are referring to CHARACTER.. the character of men in this country is, by all definitions in the world, has been very acceptable to be feminine and corrupt - maybe not in the same person mind you . They are two extremes, the katoy character is denying the responsibility of being a supporter and leader by being feminine and 'soft', the corrupt character is excercising a power and control kick to take advantage of people to their own benefit.. both are equally damaging.

@ JR Texas - couldn't have said it better myself.. parents need to take responsiblity for educating their children about morals, ethics, etc.. Gotta start somewhere..

The truth of the matter is Thais could care less if the government is corrupt as long as it improves their way of life... this shows a MAJOR opportunity for improvement in the thought processes of these people. Thailand is a beautiful country, with a wonder culture and great people.. they deserver to live a better life - even if they don't know what that means, what it 'looks like' or how to get there. Take, for example, the concept of accepting a corrupt government as long as it improves your personal way of life.. sounds great.. EXCEPT, when YOU end up on the other end of that corruption.. not so fun. Not working out as you had planned. Hence, a little education on the effects of some of their actions and choices, especially when intended to help improve that same way of life, should be offered when possible. Couple this with the widely acceptable femininity of males.. and you have a social development problem.. which you can see effects of almost anywhere in Thailand. If the men here were more honorable, respectable and 'took care of business',.. the women wouldn't be flogging themselves at every foreigner that walks by. It's not like this in other coutries, EVEN WHERE PROSTIUTION IS LEGAL! So, you can't put it off on, 'They just do it to make money, etc.'. No, they do it for lack of a decent selection in the local 'dating pool' !

I would apologize for the rant, or if this offends someone, but to be blunt... I don't mind if it offends you, as long as you can see that there is truly a problem here,.. that maybe you, I or someone we know will have the opportunity to help these wonderful people truly improve their lives and relationships. All in all... I think the intention of everyone on this board, aside from those less endowed with mental ability, is to HELP Thailand.. not hurt it.

Cheers

I wonder what Devine Power gave you the right to "HELP" Thailand. I smell imperialism.

You should have your nose checked.. this ISN'T about me, or you.. it's about helping others.. Heck, even if you want to be totally self seeking here do it for that fact that what goes around comes around.. either way,.. you got to look at the intention here.. the orig poster and second poster have valid points.. whether you choose to see that or not, is your decision. And for what it's worth, half of my family is Thai..so, yes, I am familiar with the Thai and the Farang side of these issues.. and it does effect everyone..

5555! Quiet an achievement I dare say. Many people's families on this forum are half Thai I am married to a Thai, for years already I live a Thai life amidst my Thai family of 12, in a totally Thai extremely modest fishermans' family accommodation far south, where I am happy to see no more than one farang every week.

Its' a chosen life : I still own 2 businesses, a house and an appartment in Europe, and a villa in Phuket, but I sleep on the floor with 16 others in a small one room house with no glass in the windows. All because I love my Thai family and friends more than anything else.

By the way, you don't live in Thailand, you live on Phuket that is referred to by Thai as "farang country". I have many Thai friends on Phuket, but I am sad to have to admit they all have become all half farang. It was such an alien place to my inlaws when i first showed them around. They see it as our(farang) province, and after the first days of excitement they didn't really like what they saw after all. They wanted to go home early.

For the record : At home there are many katoey too, they have been a part of Thai society for a thousand years. The Phuket katoey were not the reason the inlaws didnt like the island. But the -in their Thai eyes -loud, impolite, arrogant, bad mannered, bad mouthed, disrespectful and agressive farang were. It was all I heard during the ride home, and i was ashamed to be farang too. The inlaws were curious, have seen Phuket now, and will probably not return.

You and the likes, who try to influence the Thai ways, are the reason why farang are becoming increasingly impopular in Thailand, why we will never have the right to own land here, and why farang never will be granted the same rights as Thai. Thais do not like the fact that we are here if we do not embrace the Thai culture full heartedly, they merely only tolerate you because they can make money out of you. No wonder you dont like their ways.

If you want to turn this place into "little America", why did you come here in the first place? Why did you not retire to Texas? You are farang, and have no right to judge or interfere. That would be imperialism.

[Hunkpati]

I wounder who they learned from or model themselves after. I'm not sticking up for Thailand as I prefer my own country but lets call a spade a spade.

"corruption by government officials was acceptable as long as it improved their living conditions"

As long as it benefits me I don't care who you kill or whos land you take or what country you start a war with seems to be the Western worlds attitude.

"Thailand is a nation made up largely of thieves who will cheat at every opportunity"

What like AIG, Bernie Madoff, GM, Whitewater, Enron, etc., etc., etc.

"Government lottery tickets are sold out regularly at premium prices because a lot of Thais wish to attain a high income level without working for it".

You can buy them in any gas station in the USA, even instant winners and they are run by the state governments.

"Young Thai women marry retired foreigners whose pensions provide a road to an easy life".

What Americans don't? Anna Nicole was just a famous one but, how many trophy wives are there?

"Expensive German cars, Swiss watches, and French handbags all sell well in Thailand. Thais buy more luxury German cars than the Japanese, even though the latter have far more upper-income professionals".

They sell well in the USA too, put that on my card please because I can't really afford it, really I can finance a Benz for 10 years.

"Thais cannot work co-operatively for any length of time"

The South still waves Confederate flags and my brothers and sisters still live on reservations sure they get a free pair of running shoes and a blanket every year, Neo-Nazi party and the KKK, AIM, yep we all get along and work well together.

"Tens of thousands of Buddhist temples have been built, many practically next to each other, because the solution for disagreement among members of the congregation is to build another one".

I'm with Ben Franklin on this one, "Light houses are more useful than churches" but still we have too many, I bet the Vatican has enough wealth to buy every Buddhist temple in Thailand.

And let us keep in mind G.W. Bush doubled a national deficit that had 233 to accumulate in just 8 years.

[bungy007]

I tend not to worry about averages or statistics. With one foot in boiling water and one foot in ice water the average says you should be comfortable. I deal with everyone at face value, one on one, and not trust anyone with anything I can't afford to lose and walk away from. I don't worry about cheats. If a deal looks too good to be true then it probably is. I only gamble with what I EXPECT to lose... and consider it the price of playing the game.

I don't care HOW many katoy there are, or how many cheating hookers, or how many time share salesmen. If I get burned it's only because I've been foolish. I can't alter my own countries decisions so I certainly can't expect to have any effect on a foreign countries decisions... no matter how foolish they may appear. Right now I enjoy Thailand for what it offers me personally. I can't concern myself with its policies no matter how much they might affect me in the future.

WoW! Such detachment! How about considering others less fortunate than you? Those not blessed with such a 'nose' for thieves and are taken for all they've got - including their lives. I'm sure the British couple detained against their will at swampy could have used your help

[bungy007]

You and the likes, who try to influence the Thai ways, are the reason why farang are becoming increasingly impopular in Thailand, why we will never have the right to own land here, and why farang never will be granted the same rights as Thai. Thais do not like the fact that we are here if we do not embrace the Thai culture full heartedly, they merely only tolerate you because they can make money out of you. No wonder you dont like their ways.

This is a major reason why Thais and Thailand haven't capitalised on their assets and chances to stablise/improve their standard of living for the masses (which they are obviously troubled about as they wouldn't be facing off in their red and yellow armies if all was hunky dory in the realm). Given that most of the development that has taken place in Thailand has been the adoption of western solutions - be it transport in the shape of cars, buses, trains planes and motorbikes, shopping in the form of convenience stores, supermarkets and department stores, eating in the shape of fast food outlets, international cuisine or clothes in the shape of dress shirts, ties and suits, dresses, t-shirts, sneakers, jeans and education in the way of EPs and international schools, Thailand has realised that it can be advantageous to pay heed to those who are non-Thai. Kop khun