Thai Electrics

[Socket]

OK,I've found a few helpful snippets of info and a very good link by the user Crossy,but nothing specific to my needs.

I'm gonna buy a bungalow type home in Thailand,I have previously rented and lived in it,but am in the UK at the moment.

My ultimate plan is to ship all my household goods to this property and that will include a free standing electric oven/hob,LCD TV,HiFi,computer equipment.....you know,the usual goods one accumulates along the way.Anyway my question is, that the current wiring in this property is 2 core with cheap nasty 2 pin outlets that let anything that's plugged in fall straight out.What is the best option for me to have the electrics capable of running all my UK appliances,3 pin plug.

What I'd like to do is to take all the necessary items to turn the wiring into a UK compatible set up.I would buy the Fuse Box,plug sockets and anything else needed from the UK.Is that a feasible option??.I realise that this will/may entail having the whole property rewired,which I dont mind being done....can I do this,I keep reading about earthing problems and earth rods,is that gonna affect me.I don't plan on doing the work myself but just want to know if it's possible.

Any help would be appreciated

Thanks

[Crossy]

No need to rewire to fit BS1363 (13A) outlets

Bring some UK standard sockets and back-boxes and simply replace the local ones with the UK (or you can get UK outlets in Malaysia when you do a visa run), you will end up with radial wiring with 20A breakers which will be more than adequate unless you intend using lots of heaters on a single circuit. You will need to add ground wires if your existing sockets are unearthed. Particularly do not install UK style ring-mains, the local outlets are not suitable for this arrangement and whilst you won't have any issues future local occupants of your house who replace your UK outlets with local ones will create a hazardous situation.

Don't replace all your sockets as any appliances you buy here will have Thai style plugs

There are 'universal' outlets which will accept UK plugs, great to guarantee a plug fitting but not up to high current loads. Haco type U-132 http://www.hacothailand.com/product-engsho...&txtsearch=

We have local (US), Schuko (Euro) and UK sockets installed together with no issues

[Socket]

Thanks for the quick reply Crossy,

Just a few things still not clear to me.

Can you explain in laymans terms (if you haven't already lol) if it's a good idea to bring a UK Fuse Box with me with all the breakers to replace the Thai one(I don't have a pic but from memory it didn't pleasing to the eye).What size breakers would I need to have for all my appliances??

If the existing sockets contain no earth wire do I need to run Earth wires to every socket,and from where does the earth wire run.....fuse box....will I need an earth rod???

What about the cooker,how would I incorporate that into the wiring,I'll bring a cooker socket/back box with me,does the cooker run it's own circuit from the fuse Box and what size breaker would that need??

Also I will eventually install Aircon so how would that put into the set up??

I trust the electricity supply coming into the house is adequate to deal with the demand??.

Sorry for the questions,but you seem to be the one who knows what I need to know.Your help is greatly appreciated.

PS. You're not living around SiSaket are you.....lol

[QED]

I was in the same situation and brought all the things you mention, apart from the cooker which is a separate issue.

I am no electrician, and the pro's will probably tell you not to do this, but here is what I did.

Bought half a dozen 1 m 4 way UK extension cords and fitted adapter plugs. No rewiring needed, 3 years later all my appliances still work fine, and I still have plenty of sockets for all the Thai appliances I have accumulated along the way.

Visitors from the UK find the UK sockets useful for their phones, razors, hair dryers etc.

I know there is no earth, and that is dangerous apparently, but if you're careful you likely won't have a problem.

[Crossy]

We're in Pathum Thani, a bit far to come

Anyway. If you want to bring a UK Consumer Unit do so, don't get a "17th Edition" unit (with 2 RCDs), locate a split-service one which has one RCD and a non-RCD main switch. That said, the big names all supply UK style units here so you should actually have no problem, Square-D (Schneider) are readily available and stylish.

Cable sizes and breaker ratings here http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/Circuit%20types.html even if using UK outlets stick to these sizes and ratings to avoid confusing the local sparks.

You need to run a ground wire from every grounded outlet back to the CU ground bar and from there to a ground rod. Twin + earth cable is still rare, even if you actually re-wire you're likely going to end up using twin plus a separate ground wire.

Cooker needs its own circuit, check the rating plate of the cooker to determine the load and size the cable and breaker to suit (6mm² cable and a 32A breaker should do the trick). Same with aircon units and water heaters.

Supplies in Thailand come in several flavours:-

5/15 - 15Amp max total, good for a small hut.

15/45 - 45Amp max total, by far the most common, fine for a reasonable sized home.

30/100 - 100Amp max total, not available in all areas.

Also, domestic 3-phase, almost unheard of in the UK, is quite common particularly in remote areas where the higher current single phase supplies would put too much strain on the local infrastructure.

Consider solar water heaters (with an instant electric to top up if it's a bit chilly).

[Socket]

You are a diamond geezer.

For now I shall do some more research as to the info I have gleaned from you and read thru your excellent 'Thailand House Wiring Page'.......but if you don't mind,please keep an eye on the thread over the next few days as I will probably come back with some more questions.

Many thanks for your time and Knowledge my friend......you have been a great help.

oops I lied.....one last thing,this 'Ground rod'.....is that something I will have to put in place,will there not be a ground rod anywhere from the Thai set up??

@ QED - That did cross my find,but only as long as it took for fire to cross my mind,then I didn't think about it anymore.If I'm gonna do it then I really want it done safely.Just out of interest and a bit off topic what moving company did you use???.

Edited July 13, 2009 by Socket

[Crossy]

oops I lied.....one last thing,this 'Ground rod'.....is that something I will have to put in place,will there not be a ground rod anywhere from the Thai set up??

If your current installation has only 2 pin outlets you're unlikely to have a ground rod.

Readily available from your local electrical emporium, read my grounding page here http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/earthing.html

[lopburi3]

You say you are buying and use 'my' as if not married so just want to be sure you are Thai or have duty free import and know you can not buy land here.

Normal and good electric supplies are available here - just not often used. I suspect home will have only 5 amp meter so you will have to upgrade that - and that could involve investment in a power transformer as often there is not sufficient capacity in current lines. A rewire of house would not cost that much so is the way to go (rather than putting a ground here and there). I also highly advise using RCD protection here as you are often a very good conductor to ground (bare feet on cement/wet tile).

[Socket]

You say you are buying and use 'my' as if not married so just want to be sure you are Thai or have duty free import and know you can not buy land here.

Yeah...sorry for any confusion on that.I am married to a Thai and we have been in the UK for a 5yr stint and all Household goods will imported in her name and as she has been out of the country for more than 12mths there should be no duty.I know the home/land wont be in my name but I'm not concerned about that as we have kids,and as long as they have the roof over their heads that's all that matters.

Normal and good electric supplies are available here - just not often used. I suspect home will have only 5 amp meter so you will have to upgrade that - and that could involve investment in a power transformer as often there is not sufficient capacity in current lines. A rewire of house would not cost that much so is the way to go (rather than putting a ground here and there). I also highly advise using RCD protection here as you are often a very good conductor to ground (bare feet on cement/wet tile).

For the first bit of this quote,is that something the Thai electricity authority will be able to carry out if it's needed,or is that a job for a local spark??

I also see you recommend RCD protection,do you have any view on whether the UK consumer unit I bring is pre 17th edition or not.....does it matter,coz I have sourced a 17th edition CU with 2 RCD's,coz I'm a plant driver in the building game this sort of stuff find it's way into the boot of your car lol.Is that gonna be OK or do I need what Crossy mentioned above??.Will this give me any problems if I want to use Thai two pin sockets alongside UK sockets

Also,this maybe a silly question,but before I let anyone loose on a rewire/alteration I need to have some idea it's being done correctly,so can a RCD protect a radial circuit or does it have to a ring??

I really appreciate your advice guys.....

[toret]

Why would you want to haul an electric oven over here?

Electricity cost an arm and a leg, and gas gets the roast nice and juicy.

[Socket]

Why would you want to haul an electric oven over here?

Electricity cost an arm and a leg, and gas gets the roast nice and juicy.

Well I'm certainly open for advice,one thing I would have to factor in, is that I very much doubt I would find one locally to me and the logistics involved in getting one from Bangkok may just be too much hassle.How do they operate anyway,off the bottle,the same as those table top gas hobs???

Got any links to where I can browse some gas ovens,failing that option,I'm paying for half a container anyway so I may as well use up the space.As I remember it,the cost of electricity when I was last there was not expensive at all,can't be any more expensive than the UK.

But having said that,you have got my attention so if you can tell me anymore details it would be appreciated.

Thanks

Edited July 14, 2009 by Socket

[longball53098]

Off topic but I also would like to know where you can shop for a gas oven. Everywhere I looked all I can find are electric models.

As for the local electrics I would consider the re-wire of the entire place as the most reliable way to go. This way you know what you have.

[lopburi3]

Sorry not being from the UK am not familiar with your electric terms or prices so will let Crossy advise. But I would not leave any two pin outlets - the Japanese sockets for three pin will accept flat or round two or three pin plugs - and as the new standard is a three pin plug here (although seldom found yet) you will be ready.

[Crossy]

Sorry not being from the UK am not familiar with your electric terms or prices so will let Crossy advise. But I would not leave any two pin outlets - the Japanese sockets for three pin will accept flat or round two or three pin plugs - and as the new standard is a three pin plug here (although seldom found yet) you will be ready.

To clarify, a "17th Edition" Consumer Unit is almost identical to the split-service unit shown on my website http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/Consumer.html except that both sides are RCD protected.

The latest UK regs require that ALL circuits be 30mA RCD protected. It is my opinion (and that of many pro's) that this latest requirement is way over the top, indeed many are reporting multiple nuisance trips caused by older, somewhat leaky (but still safe when correctly grounded) appliances.

In Thailand we have a much damper environment as well as many more motor equipped appliances (air-con, water pumps etc.). Motors tend to go leaky as they age so the usual advice is that aircons and water pump (along with your freezer and some lights) do not get an RCD or if you insist use a 100mA one.

That said, if our OP can 'win' a CU there is no reason why he shouldn't remove one RCD if he gets nuisance tripping

[Socket]

OK,I have now got the CU in my possession and it is a 'Memera 2000AD' and I've got 4 each of 6amp,16amp and 32amp breakers.It has a 80A/30mA RCD and a 100A Isolator switch,it does do split load so is this the same type as you mentioned earlier RCD/Non-RCD main switch??

If you get the time Crossy,could you tell me if this is suffice for the job,do I need different breakers??

Here's a link about the CU

http://www.electrika.com/products/m/man-02...-mem-2000ad.pdf

Would really appreciate it if you could take a look and let me know If I'll be OK with having this installed.

These japanese sockets mentioned by lopburi3,will they accept UK plugs and Thai plugs,if so where are they available??

All you guys.....I really appreciate your time and knowledge.

Many thanks.

[Crossy]

OK,I have now got the CU in my possession and it is a 'Memera 2000AD' and I've got 4 each of 6amp,16amp and 32amp breakers.It has a 80A/30mA RCD and a 100A Isolator switch,it does do split load so is this the same type as you mentioned earlier RCD/Non-RCD main switch??

If you get the time Crossy,could you tell me if this is suffice for the job,do I need different breakers??

These japanese sockets mentioned by lopburi3,will they accept UK plugs and Thai plugs,if so where are they available??

Looks like exactly what you need Have a look on my Consumer Unit page to see how a split service CU is wired http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/Consumer.html

If you can get some 20A breakers instead of the 6A ones then use:-

20A for power outlets and small aircon on 2.5mm² cable

16A for lighting on 1.5mm² cable

32A for cooker, water heater and big aircon on 6mm² cable

It accepts standard DIN rail mounting breakers, so you can get them here should you end up with the wrong combination.

The sockets lopburi is talking about are like these they take 2 and 3 pin US style, 2 pin round and the new Thai TIS166-2549 (2006) plug, they DON'T take UK plugs.

To take UK plugs you need these

Find them all on the Haco stand at HomePro http://www.hacothailand.com/index-eng.html

[lopburi3]

The normal outlets do not accept UK plugs - they are almost never used here. But there are outlet strips made primary for computer systems and sold in Carrefour (and better places) that do accept the UK plugs. And there is easy access to adapter plugs.

[lopburi3]

I have never mastered getting a plug into those outlets without removing the cover. It must be a UK skill.

[Socket]

Thanks guys,

Can I just ask you Crossy,after looking at your drawing for a split service CU,is it suffice to say that the 'Main circuit breaker' is the same as what I have in the 'Isolator switch',if so then does it matter if it's 100A, and the ELCB is the same as the RCD I have????

Also, what should be wired on the RCD side, out of sockets,lighting,air-con,hot shower,water pump,outside socket,cooker, and the sockets can be done as a radial circuit on the RCD side??,and did I read somewhere to limit the amount of sockets on any one circuit???

I'm now thinking that if I want to future proof the electrics in case we sell to a local,then once it has an earth in the wiring, I could always use the universal sockets you posted a picture of,that would allow the use of both types of plugs wouldn't it??....and there must be a matching plug for that Haco socket that will have an earth pin,so could I just replace all the UK plugs on my appliances with those???

I tell you what guys,I've come a long way in a few days....you've still probably forgot more than I know,but what you have told me so far has been great and invaluable.

What can I say but thanks....but what I would really like to say, is that the drinks are on me.

[Donnyboy]

sorry to hijack the thread, but its partly related

i have Black and Decker electric mower for my small property. It has the moulded plug and a inbuilt 13amp fuse. The adaptor that came with it, that makes it fit into the 2 pin socket here, isnt helping me out much as the moulded plug slips out easy. And i cant bend the pins to make a snug fit.

Im wondering if I should cut off the moulded plug and just wire in a thai style plug (2 pin). The fuse is only for wire protection right if I run over it with the mower, causing a short? Or is the fused plug for overload protection?

I cant see the mower stressing from over heating as it doesnt get much overload, as it takes 5 mins to do all my lawns, and the grass isnt very long in any case.

[lopburi3]

You should be using a three pin outlet (with ground). That adapter should never be used for something like that (I know - they sell them like that here). If you do not have ground for house wiring I would get a dedicated outlet for that mower and a ground stake installed for it. Does your house at least have a RCD/Safe-T-Cut type device? What I worry about is grass/wet/short to chassis/you/ground/dead.

[Crossy]

You should be using a three pin outlet (with ground). That adapter should never be used for something like that (I know - they sell them like that here). If you do not have ground for house wiring I would get a dedicated outlet for that mower and a ground stake installed for it. Does your house at least have a RCD/Safe-T-Cut type device? What I worry about is grass/wet/short to chassis/you/ground/dead.

Most of these mowers are double-insulated and have only a 2 core flex, if this is the case then a 2-pin local plug will be fine, otherwise agreed, a grounded outlet and 3-pin plug is essential.

Agree on the RCD protection (even on a double-insulated machine), biggest danger from these machines is chopping the flex, then picking up the cut end to look at it

[Crossy]

Thanks guys,

Can I just ask you Crossy,after looking at your drawing for a split service CU,is it suffice to say that the 'Main circuit breaker' is the same as what I have in the 'Isolator switch',if so then does it matter if it's 100A, and the ELCB is the same as the RCD I have???? Yup same thing, the electricity authority should provide a suitable cutout device (usually a fuse) as shown in my drawing of the simple CU arrangement.

Also, what should be wired on the RCD side, out of sockets,lighting,air-con,hot shower,water pump,outside socket,cooker, and the sockets can be done as a radial circuit on the RCD side??,and did I read somewhere to limit the amount of sockets on any one circuit??? Non-RCD, stove, aircon, water pump, outlet for freezer, 50% of the lighting, smoke alarms. Put everything else on the RCD side. Limit to 4 double outlets per breaker although there is no legal requirement.

I'm now thinking that if I want to future proof the electrics in case we sell to a local,then once it has an earth in the wiring, I could always use the universal sockets you posted a picture of,that would allow the use of both types of plugs wouldn't it??....and there must be a matching plug for that Haco socket that will have an earth pin,so could I just replace all the UK plugs on my appliances with those??? The universals are handy, but I don't believe they are really up to large loads and regular use, limit them to places where you need to use UK plugs.

[CrossBones]

Why are Thai plugs so Cr@p?

They are half way up the wall so the weight of the wire will pull the plug out. And the plugs never stay in properly, cheap and nasty and I cant seem to find decent quality sockets anywhere

[djc45]

You should be using a three pin outlet (with ground). That adapter should never be used for something like that (I know - they sell them like that here). If you do not have ground for house wiring I would get a dedicated outlet for that mower and a ground stake installed for it. Does your house at least have a RCD/Safe-T-Cut type device? What I worry about is grass/wet/short to chassis/you/ground/dead.

I think you will find your mower will only have two wires going to the plug as it will be doubly insulated and would be better with a 2 pin plug here and if possible covered by an rcd cut out either at the outlet or the cu

[lopburi3]

Half way up the wall to keep the flood waters out and avoid stooping every time you unplug an appliance (most Thai do unplug when not used). The National/Panasonic outlets hold well but many cheapish brands do not. But if you mean hold like the battleship UK plugs that is not going to happen with flat or round pin types.

[djc45]

OK,I have now got the CU in my possession and it is a 'Memera 2000AD' and I've got 4 each of 6amp,16amp and 32amp breakers.It has a 80A/30mA RCD and a 100A Isolator switch,it does do split load so is this the same type as you mentioned earlier RCD/Non-RCD main switch??

If you get the time Crossy,could you tell me if this is suffice for the job,do I need different breakers??

These japanese sockets mentioned by lopburi3,will they accept UK plugs and Thai plugs,if so where are they available??

Looks like exactly what you need Have a look on my Consumer Unit page to see how a split service CU is wired http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/Consumer.html

If you can get some 20A breakers instead of the 6A ones then use:-

20A for power outlets and small aircon on 2.5mm² cable

16A for lighting on 1.5mm² cable

32A for cooker, water heater and big aircon on 6mm² cable

It accepts standard DIN rail mounting breakers, so you can get them here should you end up with the wrong combination.

The sockets lopburi is talking about are like these they take 2 and 3 pin US style, 2 pin round and the new Thai TIS166-2549 (2006) plug, they DON'T take UK plugs.

To take UK plugs you need these

Find them all on the Haco stand at HomePro http://www.hacothailand.com/index-eng.html

16amp for lighting is to big .. a 6 amp would be better depending on how many lights 16 amp for the outlets again depending on the load the only fuse protection is in the cu as there is no fuse at the plug as in the uk so most of the outlets could be coverd by a 10amp or even a 6amp at the cu better to go under with the fuse than over there are very little items used that need a 16am fuse

Up to 720 watts = 3amp fuse ie tv radio table lamps

720wats to 1200 watts = 5amp fuse ie audio hi-fi, pc, microwaves, most diy tools, fans

Over 1200 watts irons, kettles, fan heaters, washing machines

The best thing if you are unsure what fuse to use is all ways use a lower one than you think, better to blow the fuse than yourself

So if your appliances need a 13 amp fuse you would be better to use a 10amp than a 16amp at the cu

Edited July 16, 2009 by djc45

[lopburi3]

You should be using a three pin outlet (with ground). That adapter should never be used for something like that (I know - they sell them like that here). If you do not have ground for house wiring I would get a dedicated outlet for that mower and a ground stake installed for it. Does your house at least have a RCD/Safe-T-Cut type device? What I worry about is grass/wet/short to chassis/you/ground/dead.

I think you will find your mower will only have two wires going to the plug as it will be doubly insulated and would be better with a 2 pin plug here and if possible covered by an rcd cut out either at the outlet or the cu

The below from his post seem to indicate it has a three pin plug and that is what I based my reply on:

the adaptor that came with it, that makes it fit into the 2 pin socket here,

[djc45]

You should be using a three pin outlet (with ground). That adapter should never be used for something like that (I know - they sell them like that here). If you do not have ground for house wiring I would get a dedicated outlet for that mower and a ground stake installed for it. Does your house at least have a RCD/Safe-T-Cut type device? What I worry about is grass/wet/short to chassis/you/ground/dead.

I think you will find your mower will only have two wires going to the plug as it will be doubly insulated and would be better with a 2 pin plug here and if possible covered by an rcd cut out either at the outlet or the cu

The below from his post seem to indicate it has a three pin plug and that is what I based my reply on:

the adaptor that came with it, that makes it fit into the 2 pin socket here,

in the uk they fit a 3 pin plug to everything regardless of its needs the earth prong will be a blank but in the uk you need a 3 pin plug to fit into the outlet

[djc45]

Off topic but I also would like to know where you can shop for a gas oven. Everywhere I looked all I can find are electric models.

As for the local electrics I would consider the re-wire of the entire place as the most reliable way to go. This way you know what you have.

winner have gas ovens and home pro also i have a singer bought localy 10,000baht basic but works well 3 rings and an oven

as for the rewire if the wires you have are in a sound condition with no burning i would not go to that expenss