Thai Health Experts Tell People To Avoid Public Places

[robokop]

Two things:

1) close the theaters? Here in Chiang Mai they may be the safest place! You seldom see the cinemas approach 20% capacity.

2) While the schools are closed "a major clean-up operation" will occur? What are they planning to do? Wash the blackboards?

Okay, three things. It is my educated opinion the cheap face masks being worn are of absolutely no protective value and may, in fact, increase your chances of becoming infected. HOWEVER, since YOU wearing a mask DOES protect ME from your sneezing, I encourage people to wear them. I do not wear one. But, then, I'm not sneezing and know how to use a handkerchief when I do.

In the USA, about 750 people die each year from eating and having food then getting caught in airway, causing person to suffocate. Suffocating from eating. So I would say it is safer to go into public places and expose yourself to a lower risk of dieing from the flu, just do not eat anything so you do not run the risk of suffication. PS wear your helmet if you ride a motorbike on your way to a public place, much higher chance of dieing before you catch the flu. All this panic over this flu is pure BS.

[caf]

This situation is beginning to get very scary. I think the closing of places of entertainment should be seriously considered, also any other places where a large number of people gather in one confined space. Of course it begs the question, what about supermarkets, bars, restaurants, airports etc. I would not want to be the minister who activated closure of these places too, but if a two week closure would see the dramatic reduction of infections we are told would occur, and possibility a swifter end to this 36 month plague, we should bite the bullet and do it.

Of course there is the question of compensation for lost revenue. But should money speak louder than human lives? Again I would not want to be the minister making that decision either.

P&M

While i agree with you that some public places should be closed, closing all would be risky and not only a matter of lost revenue. i would say, close:

- schools and universities (this should really have been done last week or so already)

- entertainments places (bars, theatres, massage parlors, internet cafes, concerts, etc.)

- possibly restaurants

- demonstrations (red shirts, yellow shirts, etc.), as they are also mass gathering of people which could 'help' the flu in spreading

of course, the people working there or the owners would have to be supported financially by the government - it's not just a matter of lost revenue, but some people - epsecially the workers in these restaurants, and small foodstall or small restaurant owners, are dependent on their daily income to survive)...

to close down other public places which - i agree - could be transmission points is very risky, and NOT only regarding lost revenue:

- supermarkets and maybe also food markets: where will people get their food then, especially in cities?

- airports, railway stations, public transport: there ARE definitely situations in which people need to travel, and which are not 'only' for business or holiday reasons...

- bank's branches counter services outlets like bank branches counter services, utilities services outlets, etc.: quite impossible to do that...

so, while surely something HAS to be done (while working on a vaccine/prevention AND also of course on effective cures for a possibly mutating virus which can get resistant to current treatments too), methods applied have to be selected carefully. while of course a spread of the flu should be minimized, on the other side you surely would not like to see a total breakdown of the country and it's society... because following this health care services could also break down and that would be counterproductive...

also, of course free treatment and free vaccines would have to be provided at least to people who would financially suffer from the temporary shutdown of their work and income place/sources...

And the money for all this comes from.......where?

[jayceenik]

I went swimming at the Queen's Park Friday morning. A pack of Thai kids showed up for initial pool lessons. I felt something coming to me soon after I left the pool. Sure enough I've been in bed since then. Slowly improving today but I'm still grounded and only got some little food in for the first time in four days. Was it the kids and the dreaded H1N1 or overexposition to the sun? Friday AM was pure blue sky but I already have a suntan and didn't get any sunburn that day.

[liloldspirut]

Hi all, I am a new member of forum

Welcome on board.

[robbiecia]

Sanan to propose that all schools close

<snip>

he will propose to the cabinet meeting the closure of all schools nationwide for two to four weeks to help curb the flu outbreak.

it was not necessary to shut down entertainment venues for the time being.

would like to know why one must close the other can stay open?! Just wondering

In the first case no tea money is involved

[KhunOr]

One snippet from the article I referenced above. Take note:

Please realize that Tamiflu is NOT a safe drug Serious side effects include convulsions, delirium or delusions, and 14 deaths in children and teens as a result of neuropsychiatric problems and brain infections Japan actually banned Tamiflu for children in 2007.

Remember, Tamiflu went through some rough times not too long ago, as the dangers of this drug came to light when, in 2007, the FDA finally began investigating some 1,800 adverse event reports related to the drug.

Additionally common side effects of Tamiflu include:

• Nausea
  
• Vomiting
  
• Diarrhea
  
• Headache
  
• Dizziness
  
• Fatigue
  
• Cough
  

All in all, the very symptoms you're trying to avoid.

Additionally, Tamiflu has been reported to be ineffective against seasonal flu outbreaks, and may not be sufficient to combat an epidemic or pandemic.

But making matters worse, some patients with influenza are at HIGHER risk for secondary bacterial infections when on Tamiflu. And secondary bacterial infections, as I mentioned earlier, was likely the REAL cause of the mass fatalities during the 1918 pandemic!

But here’s the real kicker.

When Tamiflu is used as directed (twice daily for 5 days) it can

ONLY

reduce the duration of your influenza symptoms by 1 to 1 ½ days

, according to the official data

.

Why on earth would anyone want to take a drug that has a chance of killing you, was banned in Japan, is loaded with side effects that mimic the flu itself, costs over $100, and AT BEST can only provide 36 hours of SYMPTOM relief. Just doesn't make any sense.

Please recognize that there is serious revenue in Tamiflu. The Financial Times reports that governments around the world have previously stockpiled 220 million doses in preparation for a pandemic that has yet to appear. The cost of this preparation is $7 billion dollars.

[paulandmaneerat]

Having read all the comments and the responses to my own, I am amazed that some people can be so casual - even satirical, about the potential threat. It is not true to say that this is an old story in the western media, they are very wisely concerned, and even this morning, The Daily Mail lead story was concerning two more deaths in the UK.

The fact is, nobody knows for sure what the best precautions are, what the consequences will be or what the remedy is. But this epidemic is like a gun that is pointing directly at us and which may or may not be fired. Nobody in their right mind should dismiss this threat, any more than they would idly dismiss the threat of a gun against their own head.

Constructive personal opinions are valuable since they may produce a solution, but those who choose to ignore or trivialise a potential world-wide death dealing plague (as happened after WW1), are playing a dangerous game indeed. Let's hope it runs out of steam very soon.

P&M

[verydumbubba]

Clearly there is pause for great concern - simply look at the Bangkok Posts Breaking News Page

There is no single magic bullet - its the sum of the parts

Bubba

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews

[backsoon]

Geee, 10M Bt + 70M Bt = 80 M Bt! Not sure about the flu, but it will make a lot of happy rich people in LOS...

[sassienie]

The problem is that as usual there are many questions and hardly any answers.

For example, if they close the schools and certain other public places, how long would this be before they declare these places safe again?

What about the bars and massage parlours? I would have thought that these should be the first to be shut down for obvious reasons.

Does the vaccine work? When will it be available?

For what period is this worldwide flu epidemic estimated to last?

Thousands of people probably die from so called regular influenza worldwide every year, so how much more serious is this new strain of flu and should we all now be panicking or not?

[backsoon]

Having read all the comments and the responses to my own, I am amazed that some people can be so casual - even satirical, about the potential threat. It is not true to say that this is an old story in the western media, they are very wisely concerned, and even this morning, The Daily Mail lead story was concerning two more deaths in the UK.

The fact is, nobody knows for sure what the best precautions are, what the consequences will be or what the remedy is. But this epidemic is like a gun that is pointing directly at us and which may or may not be fired. Nobody in their right mind should dismiss this threat, any more than they would idly dismiss the threat of a gun against their own head.

Constructive personal opinions are valuable since they may produce a solution, but those who choose to ignore or trivialise a potential world-wide death dealing plague (as happened after WW1), are playing a dangerous game indeed. Let's hope it runs out of steam very soon.

P&M

Dear Paul. Please, don't be so serious. The occasion is morbid enough. Some people are dead. More people die from many other reasons. So, people die... Big news!

[OzMick]

I went swimming at the Queen's Park Friday morning. A pack of Thai kids showed up for initial pool lessons. I felt something coming to me soon after I left the pool. Sure enough I've been in bed since then. Slowly improving today but I'm still grounded and only got some little food in for the first time in four days. Was it the kids and the dreaded H1N1 or overexposition to the sun? Friday AM was pure blue sky but I already have a suntan and didn't get any sunburn that day.

You swim in bacteria soup and you wonder why you are feeling sick? And I bet the little food you ate contained some animal products, chicken soup perhaps? Didn't you read the post telling you that all meat is contaminated with antobiotics? It's a wonder you're alive.

[wpcoe]

I went swimming at the Queen's Park Friday morning. A pack of Thai kids showed up for initial pool lessons. I felt something coming to me soon after I left the pool. Sure enough I've been in bed since then.

What is the incubation period for this flu (or flu in general)? Would you feel the symptoms that quickly, i.e. within minutes after exposure?

[barry]

I'm reminded of that wonderful line in woody allens movie "SLEEPER"

his character wakes up 200 years in the future and want to know what became of his friends.

When told they were dead, he replied: "How can that be ? They all ate organic rice".

[backsoon]

The problem is that as usual there are many questions and hardly any answers.

For example, if they close the schools and certain other public places, how long would this be before they declare these places safe again?

What about the bars and massage parlours? I would have thought that these should be the first to be shut down for obvious reasons.

Does the vaccine work? When will it be available?

For what period is this worldwide flu epidemic estimated to last?

Thousands of people probably die from so called regular influenza worldwide every year, so how much more serious is this new strain of flu and should we all now be panicking or not?

Sassienie, you've said it! More questions than answers.... 220m doses of Tamiflu stockpiled at a cost of 7bn. This makes a cost of 31.8 per fix. The fix dose is retailing at over 100 per fix.

Perhaps some of the answers to your rhitoric questions lies there?

Anyway, if no answers, why ask questions???

[QED]

Those of you that are antibiotic consumers, and by that I mean animal product eaters, you are the cause of your own demise. What's left after feeding animals antibiotics are the most antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria, and the human is pretty much defenseless because everybody knows, eat the same antibiotics everyday, and they don't work, for example penicillin. It's time for the self-indulgent sense gratification seeking human to clean up their act. Just my 50 satang.

What a stupid comment. The flu is a virus not a bacterial infection.

Please do not try and hijack this into some tree hugging, hippy, vegan, free love soapbox - you've just shown you are not worthy of any serious debate or conversation.

[Jimjim]

The following makes you wonder how they came up with the name Swine Flu?

"Virologists tested samples of the virus taken from patients in the United States as well as several seasonal flu viruses on mice, ferrets, macaque monkeys and specially-bred miniature pigs.

They found that A(H1N1) caused more severe lung lesions among mice, ferrets and macaques than the seasonal flu viruses.

But it did not cause any symptoms among the mini-pigs, which could explain why there has been no evidence that pigs in Mexico fell sick with the disease before the outbreak began among humans."

Doesn't really make me wonder. Pigs were thought to be the carriers of this particular flu strain, but this species itself showed no ill effects. Please, do some research. A species can carry a flu that becomes deadly to humans but won't show any effects themselves.

When the flu emerged, it was thought to be a strain of bird flu mutated by pigs and passed on to humans. However, the origins are still hazy but this strain of flu has elements of swine flu and bird flu and was thought, at least originally, to have been passed to humans from swine.

[Shiver]

I think it's pretty clear that the masks we see here won't do anything at all. Even N95 masks are said to be inadequate, and N100 may be, but the cost of those means uptake will be minimal to none, and it's a hefty piece of gear to be wearing until you handle some food and remove the mask just to get infected anyway....

Here's what I'll be doing; Keep a stock of vitamin D3, Sodium Chlorite, and avoid getting a flu jab at all costs. You can see how peoples immune system goes up and down with the seasons (D3 you can get from sunlight), so the next wave it likely to me more severe than this one (which is currently more mainstream media sensation than anything of substance). If the flu, or more importantly the next wave (which might actually even be dangerous!) causes the cytokine storm that causes the breathing difficulties, then I'll use the Sodium Chlorite, if not then D3. Basically D3 enhances the immune system, but if the immune response is what causes the difficulties in breathing then I don't want to enhance that, so instead use the chlorite which would work along side the immune system rather than boosting it.

It should also be borne in mind that most of the people dying aren't dying just of the flu, but as an additional complication, which doesn't appear to be documented.

I would just continue life pretty much as normal, but keep hygiene at the forefront (why does nobody wash their hands when they leave the toilet here?), and some assists on hand should you suspect the likelyhood or actually have symptoms.

[anon467367354]

I'm reminded of that wonderful line in woody allens movie "SLEEPER"

his character wakes up 200 years in the future and want to know what became of his friends.

When told they were dead, he replied: "How can that be ? They all ate organic rice".

and tobacco turned out to be the healthiest thing for you. Great movie!

[ban1dto]

Our immune systems protect us from the sea of germs/virus that we swim in daily. Healthy immune system-never catch colds, flu, etc. Run down immune system-catch everything flying by.

As previous posters pointed out, taking anti-virus drugs is mostly a placebo effect. On the other hand, vaccines to a specific virus stimulates an antibody response of the immune system, giving the person immunity.

At this point, to my knowledge, there is no vaccine for the swine flu, but keeping in good health, and washing hands and staying away from crowds should help.

[smokie36]

At the hospital I work at here in the UK many of the staff are being issued with special facemasks for dealing with patients who have contracted the virus.

So far we have had 1 serious case involving a patient needing ITU care. All staff involved in this case were advised to take a course of Tamiflu as a precaution.

This patient contracted the virus on a cruise ship along with several others on board. The patient who suffered most was unfit and extremely overweight.

None of the others required hospitalisation.

Just my tuppence worth.

Edited July 14, 2009 by smokie36

[RPCVguy]

One word SOAP

as i took a bus trip a couple days ago from lom sak to chaing mai for a small holiday and a border cross it accured to me I have never seen soap in a public bathroom here.. \

forget the face masks buy some soap

Just my opinion

Contaminants from hand contact to infected surfaces and then rubbing an eye or touching the mouth... this is generally the means of indiviual infection. Hand washing, frequently and thoroughly, is a major way to protect oneself!

That this strain is currently rather mild is good fortune only. The likelihood of a more fatal mutation evolving increases as the density of cases rises. IMHO, If humanity can slow the spread, through education and behavior care, it will not only give more people time to develop immunity through eventual exposure, but lessen the pandemic's risk globally of increasing the mortality rates. The immunity achieved to this strain will likely improve success in resisting the eventual related mutations. BUT first, we all help by slowing the current spread.

Oh, and I agree that the masks do more to protect those around the wearer, than for the wearer alone.

[iko]

This flu phobia is quite ridicolous. As much as people who, drinking 10 beers per day, smoking 2 packs of cigarettes, riding bikes with no helmet, and F^^^g thai girls with no condoms seem to be worried for a flu that so far caused less dead that coconuts falling.

[anon467367354]

Those of you that are antibiotic consumers, and by that I mean animal product eaters, you are the cause of your own demise. What's left after feeding animals antibiotics are the most antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria, and the human is pretty much defenseless because everybody knows, eat the same antibiotics everyday, and they don't work, for example penicillin. It's time for the self-indulgent sense gratification seeking human to clean up their act. Just my 50 satang.

What a stupid comment. The flu is a virus not a bacterial infection.

Please do not try and hijack this into some tree hugging, hippy, vegan, free love soapbox - you've just shown you are not worthy of any serious debate or conversation.

I forgot to leave out tree hugging, sorry you had to read that. I did mention hippy, and free love, I mean really, who needs another utility bill? We all know that there is no need for new antibiotics, because not even this mutating virus mutates, nor are they treating it with antibiotics. And one more note, every knows that a body weakened by the constant consumption of drugs would never get a virus, much less one that can mutate because they don't, right? So why did they suggest this virus originated from a farm? Why do weak pigs, like the closely related human get viruses when their immune systems are weakened? You are so right, way right. I am going to disregard the research and stick my head in the sand, I'll say hello when I see you there. No one's going to take your meat, or your alcohol, or your prescription drugs, you can relax, take a pill if you need to. cheers!

[imjustagirl]

Whilst washing of hands is never a bad idea, and should be encouraged more in Thai society, I wonder what the benefit is in combating flu, which in my humble opinion is spread through the air in tiny droplets from a cough or a sneeze. The wearing of a mask, use of a handkerchief or the palm of the hand in front of the nose or mouth seem the more appropriate solution.

P&M

I think washing hands frequently is because one of the biggest culprets of the spread is money. Guy with the virus coughs and rubs nose/mouth then reaches into pocket for money to pay fro something - virus passed to money receiver who then sells something to you and you are handed the virus covered cash. You then handle something and reach for your mouth ....bang virus way in.

Supermarkets/ shops/ markets/ bars are a great way to pass virus as money is so quickly rotated from person to person... not sure how long the virus can actually survive while airborne - not long i would think, so unless someone coughs in your face breathing is still ok

Just a thought on the face mask thing but if the point of access for the flu is the mouth, nose and eyes then surely wearing a mask would stop you inadvertantly putting your hands to your face without thinking and trigger you to wash your hands or use alcohol gel??? Kind of a reminder possibly more than direct airborne protection...

I haven't resorted to a mask but i am carrying gel around and washing hands frequently - especially after handling money

[kutjebu]

Whilst washing of hands is never a bad idea, and should be encouraged more in Thai society, I wonder what the benefit is in combating flu, which in my humble opinion is spread through the air in tiny droplets from a cough or a sneeze. The wearing of a mask, use of a handkerchief or the palm of the hand in front of the nose or mouth seem the more appropriate solution.

P&M

I think washing hands frequently is because one of the biggest culprets of the spread is money. Guy with the virus coughs and rubs nose/mouth then reaches into pocket for money to pay fro something - virus passed to money receiver who then sells something to you and you are handed the virus covered cash. You then handle something and reach for your mouth ....bang virus way in.

Supermarkets/ shops/ markets/ bars are a great way to pass virus as money is so quickly rotated from person to person... not sure how long the virus can actually survive while airborne - not long i would think, so unless someone coughs in your face breathing is still ok

Just a thought on the face mask thing but if the point of access for the flu is the mouth, nose and eyes then surely wearing a mask would stop you inadvertantly putting your hands to your face without thinking and trigger you to wash your hands or use alcohol gel??? Kind of a reminder possibly more than direct airborne protection...

I haven't resorted to a mask but i am carrying gel around and washing hands frequently - especially after handling money

[kutjebu]

What do you think about the Asean summit,this month.

Close that as well?Safe a lot of money,more then 10.000 security personel and a lot more flu victims.

[imjustagirl]

What do you think about the Asean summit,this month.

Close that as well?Safe a lot of money,more then 10.000 security personel and a lot more flu victims.

I do wonder with some of the thailand government safety announcements....is anyone going to turn up??? :D

[Jingthing]

ot sure how long the virus can actually survive while airborne

As long as two days on some surfaces but much shorter on PAPER. Public bathroom fixtures and doorknobs are a problem.

[george]

435 Bangkok Schools To Close July 15-19

435 schools, 200 nurseries and 13 occupational training centres to close

Full story:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/435-Bangkok-...15-t280294.html