435 Bangkok Schools To Close July 15-19

[beerchang]

I agree with posters saying closing schools won't help. Just how many thousands of students are now free to go to the mall, the cinema and the internet shops to cough and sneeze on the general public. Also works the other way... general public can cough and sneeze on all of those students that are off school.

How would you like it if your child caught this virus while off school and at the mall instead?

On another note... I read x amounts of deaths from this flu. Anybody actually know what age groups seem worse off. I know a 6 yr old and a doctor died in UK recently but no idea how old the doc was.

[hardy1943]

Hi.

Stupid question. But what's all this "washing hands" do to a virus that is spread exclusively through the air, i.e. via coughing and sneezing..?? And i highly doubt that those silly masks have any effect on this virus. They can't even hold Diesel soot out, i've tried it.

Best regards.....

Thanh

Those are designed that you do not directly breeze on someone else, but otherwise they are worthless.

[NanaFoods]

The thing is that it seems that more people that catch this one are dying (some stats have it as high as 5% whilst common flu is below 1%). Therefore preventing the spread (or attempting too) is a rational step.

It may only be 5% in depressed areas, due to poor medical attention/access, and

More than 90,000 swine flu cases have been reported worldwide, including 429 deaths, the most recent WHO numbers from last week show.

That's less than 1/2 of 1% globally.

Any regional variances can most likely be explained by poor medical access.

Source AFP:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/artic...z6tOZ4fvGpk-eNQ

it could be as low as 0.2% (perhaps where medical access is good)

Siegel said 0.2% of swine flu cases are resulting in death, a mortality rate that suggests the virus is of mild to moderate virulence. In fact, Siegel said the mortality rate is probably even lower since most swine flu deaths are being reported, but many nonfatal cases are likely going unreported.

"I think there's a few million cases and the deaths are still in the hundreds," Siegel said.

[wrecker]

I understand that it is difficult for people to wash hands if they are not used to it. The virus however spreads indeed through coughing, and attaches itself to everything that way. So washing hands probably makes far more sense than closing schools. After all grown ups go to factories where people are treated like sardines just as in Thai offices where they have less space than in a concentration camp.

The bottom line is that commons sense cannot prevent the spread of the virus but at the best slow it down.

I am afraid however that this virus is a great money making opportunity for some in the government.

[Thai at Heart]

As I am not a virologist, I will throw this out into the forum.

Wouldn't it be sensible for them to quarantine every known infected but survivor of the bird flu for the next few months?

[bkkbrad]

Hi.

Stupid question. But what's all this "washing hands" do to a virus that is spread exclusively through the air, i.e. via coughing and sneezing..?? And i highly doubt that those silly masks have any effect on this virus. They can't even hold Diesel soot out, i've tried it.

Best regards.....

Thanh

The flu virus is not as potent when airborne as it is when it is resting on a hard surface, a stair handrail, a desk or work surface. The virus can be picked up if the hard surface is touched after someone who has the flu virus has sneezed into their hand and not washed it afterwards, then another person puts their hand on the same hard surface. If the 2nd person was to then rub their eyes they could possibly pick up the virus. And it is just general cleanliness to was your hands if you sneeze into them. It is also advisable to use paper tissues to blow your nose as these can be disposed of immediately, if you use a handkerchief the virus can stay upon the fabric and be transferred onto your skin which could spread the virus. The masks will not be of much use to people who do not have the virus, but would be a big help to those who do have the virus in that it could help prevent spores escaping into the air.

Going for a lie down now cos my head hurts after all that knowledge escaping in one go!!!

[mario299]

I agree that the biggest problem about this particular flu is the media attention. The gentleman from America (as I am from) stated correctly that the actual "damage done" is relatively small, and we are right next door to Mexico. Sure, travel make the spread easier, but the real bottom line is the media. They have a job...make money to stay in business. How better to stay in business than to have people listen to you and buy your advertising products, since that's what pays your bills anyway.

How best to make people listen to you? Be sensational, repeat SENSATIONAL...big problems, no solutions, the sky is falling. Oh, and by the way please buy my toilet paper.

God love you all, this is a great forum but please keep in mind that ordinary sanitary habits are, and have always been, the best methods of preventing problems like these. Take these precautions, stay away from people in crowds with bad sanitary habits, wash your hands all the time for crying out loud, and stop listening to the media's alarms with hidden agendas.

Best to you all, and thank you for this forum.

[george]

Update:

PM to go on TV 8:30 pm to pacify public on A (H1N1) flu

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva will go on Channel 11 at 8:30 pm Tuesday in an effort to pacify the panicked public following the type-A (H1N1) influenza outbreak.

The prime minister will address the public together with senior doctors from the Public Health Ministry.

-- The Nation 2009-07-14

[norwayeagle]

I think it is wise that people should carry round the anti-bacterial hand wash with them, you can use it like hand lotion you don not need water, when you go on the childrens ward and they even have it at the side of patients beds in the hospital in the UK you have to use this on your hands before entering the ward. You can buy it in Boots and I would even consider buying a tube and putting it in my childs school bag.

Yes thats a smart thing 2 do.Not only because of "swineflu" Done that years ago

[webfact]

Update:

PM to go on TV 8:30 pm to pacify public on A (H1N1) flu

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva will go on Channel 11 at 8:30 pm Tuesday in an effort to pacify the panicked public following the type-A (H1N1) influenza outbreak.

The prime minister will address the public together with senior doctors from the Public Health Ministry.

-- The Nation 2009-07-14

to pacify the panicked public

took a long time to realize that! too long IMHO

and why only Cannel 11 - why not nationwide????

Edited July 14, 2009 by webfact

[Joe1241]

This is gonna cause lots of PANIC if it already hasn't. The Hysteria this is going to cause is going to be Madness. What's Next? Closing the Shopping Malls and Supermarkets. It is gonna cause more Violence then what happened in April with the Red Shirts. The Media Attention on this in Thailand is Absurd.I know a Thai Person at work with this knowledge taking so seriously like is the end of the world like in the movie Outbreak. Too much scaremonging..

[reallyok]

Hi.

Stupid question. But what's all this "washing hands" do to a virus that is spread exclusively through the air, i.e. via coughing and sneezing..?? And i highly doubt that those silly masks have any effect on this virus. They can't even hold Diesel soot out, i've tried it.

Best regards.....

Thanh

It is a well proven fact that washing hands particularly after have visited the dunny is a must especially for people handling/preparing food.

BUT Thai's are very poorly disciplined when it comes to washing hands either after using the bathroom or prior to cooking food.

AND when it comes to the hand sterilising gels that are available in most other countries on the planet just try buying some in the realm. Pharmacists don't even know what you are talking about.

Thailand remains a 4th world country and will remain so for the appreciable future.

To be perfectly honest, i don't really recall seeing anybody, anywhere washing their hands in Thailand. Especially around foodstalls and restauraunts

What did the bible say "forgive them for they know not what they do"

[Thai at Heart]

I agree that the biggest problem about this particular flu is the media attention. The gentleman from America (as I am from) stated correctly that the actual "damage done" is relatively small, and we are right next door to Mexico. Sure, travel make the spread easier, but the real bottom line is the media. They have a job...make money to stay in business. How better to stay in business than to have people listen to you and buy your advertising products, since that's what pays your bills anyway.

How best to make people listen to you? Be sensational, repeat SENSATIONAL...big problems, no solutions, the sky is falling. Oh, and by the way please buy my toilet paper.

God love you all, this is a great forum but please keep in mind that ordinary sanitary habits are, and have always been, the best methods of preventing problems like these. Take these precautions, stay away from people in crowds with bad sanitary habits, wash your hands all the time for crying out loud, and stop listening to the media's alarms with hidden agendas.

Best to you all, and thank you for this forum.

Forget being sensational so far. These people are not stupid. So far there is almost no mention from China. For a country that has in recent history been the source of most of the nasty viral outbreaks. Hold onto your hats.

America has a very good and organised health system. The CDC is the fountain of knowledge. Thailand is a 2 1/2 world country with a 3rd world health system and it is spreading fast. Just wait till it takes hold in China and then it spreads it's mutant version back.

During all the previous major flu outbreaks, the world wasn't connected. One mutation too far and............................

Just to sum up the absurdity of it all.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/swine-fl...ectrocuted.html

First Chinese swine flu fatality "was electrocuted"

A 34-year-old woman who became the first swine flu victim to die in China may have actually been electrocuted in the hospital toilet, it has emerged.

Well isn't that convenient

Edited July 14, 2009 by Thai at Heart

[cyborg22]

On reading this article it looks more like there are closing the schools to sanitize them more than anything.

[reallyok]

Back here in the US the swine flu is all but forgotten. Nobody running around wearing masks. And we border Mexico where is started.

Cases in border states:

Texas - 900 cases, 3 deaths

California - 553 cases

Arizona - 520 cases, 2 deaths

New Mexico - 97 cases

United States total - 6,552 cases, 9 deaths

Hysteria in the only pandemic going on here. The 1976 Swine Flu vaccine killed 25 US whereas the Swine Flu only claimed 1 life.

I agree, there is too much hysteria. However, your reported figures are shocking! What is your source?

Whilst here in OZ ( population 22 million) we have approx 95000 reported cases and approx 20 deaths. Not a lot compared with other types of flue !

http://www.who.int/csr/don/2009_07_06/en/index.html

As of 6 July the United States of America had reported 33,902 cases of Swine flu and 170 had died. Still not that serious, but somewhat more than the 9 deaths you reported.

[toptuan]

In the UK, and I suppose other countries, it was stressed that washing hands WITH soap was effective. I haven't seen much soap in wash rooms in shops, bus stations etc out here. So is just putting hands under running water any use?

Yeah, I was struck with a similar thought: Ever try to find a place in public to wash your hands (with soap in a dispenser)?

That's the reason I toss a little bag of "handi-wipes" (antiseptic wet towelettes) into my backpack now and then. Comes in very handy, and I would imagine more so in this current pandemic.

Bangkok could well learn from Hong Kong. During the SARS epidemic, you could find little portable hand-washing stations (with wet antiseptic towelettes) everywhere. Didn't look too fancy or expensive, but did the job.

Edited July 14, 2009 by toptuan

[tigermonkey]

This has all been a shameful display of competition for attention between the media and the WHO since it began. Now all levels of Thai government want to get into the act -- first they talk about closing the borders -- now they want to close the schools in BKK. More publicity -- MORE PANIC !

Why wait until July 15 to close the schools ? -- and why close them for only 5 days ? -- the accepted quarantine period for influenza is 2 weeks. Everyone wants to look good , but they only create more panic.

Some facts from WHO ( who declared this pandemic) -- last year there were about 1.1 billion infections of airborn influenza ( all strains of A and B virus) across the world -- and this resulted in between 400,000 and 500,000 deaths ( ,04% to .05%).

A(H1N1) according to WHO, has almost 1,000,000 infections ( a WHO official said one million at a press conference this week ) . The mortalities are almost 400. Strange !!! -- this is only .04% to .05% again.

Yes, A(H1N1) shows greater ability to replicate in the lungs, but each influenza strain has it own characteristics.

The real danger is two fold --- panic and misuse of medication. There are only two effective treatments for influenza, Relenza and Tamiflu. These are being used indiscriminately against A(H1N1) in low risk cases, and very soon A(H1N1) will become resistant to them. Soon we may have a problem. We will have created the problem with our panic. We wil have no treatment for the seriously ill patients.

Retired doctor in Lamphun

[baht&sold]

Cabinet approves Bt850 million to combat A(H1N1) pandemic

BANGKOK, July 14 (TNA) - The Thai Cabinet on Tuesday approved a Bt850 million budget to fight the influenza A(H1N1) pandemic which has killed at least 24 Thais, while infecting more than 4,000 others across the country.

Deputy Public Health Minister Manit Nopamornbhodi revealed that Bt650 million will be spent on procurement of two million doses of anti-H1N1 vaccines to inject health officials and at-risk patients.

Another Bt250 million, Mr. Manit said, will be used for 10 million antiviral Oseltamivir tablets to be distributed to hospitals nationwide.

Mr. Manit added that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajijva will address the nation on television Channel 11 at 8.30 pm Tuesday to brief the public regarding the status of the H1N1 pandemic in Thailand to create better understanding on the issue.

The Cabinet on Tuesday also resolved not to temporarily close schools to control the H1N1 outbreak.

Deputy Education Minister Chaiwut Bannawat said that the Cabinet, however, resolved that students who contract the new virus and their parents are allowed to stay at home for self-quarantine. The missing days of parents and children will not be considered as an absence.

Mr. Chaiwut said that concerned ministries will cooperate with private companies to allow the H1N1-infected employees, as well as parents of the infected students to take leave without medical certificates.

Meanwhile, Sidivachr Cheewarattananaporn, president of the Thai-Chinese Tourism Alliance Association (TCTA), revealed Tuesday that a number of Chinese tourists have cancelled their planned trips to the kingdom due to fear of H1N1.

Mr. Sidivachr urged the government to carefully report the situation of H1N1 outbreak in the country as the released figures of the infected cases by 'those who are not involved' has terrified some tourists.

"Tourists feel insecure. Our tourism industry is 'totally dead'. The news reports have impacted the overall economy as many people presented exaggerated information. I think only those who are in charge of this matter such as prime minister, deputy prime minister and the health minister should discuss the situation with the press," the TCTA president said. (TNA)

Political News : Last Update : 17:58:11 14 July 2009

Article link

[Pappiklon]

Why are they in a panic? Those who died have their previous diseases other than H1N1.

There are more deaths with other diseases in other countries, such as dengue fever.

The main concern about this one is the kill ratio that it currently appears to have. Common Flu is far more widespread for the moment, and therefore appears to kill a lot more, and like Dengue fever therefore appears to be of greater concern. The thing is that it seems that more people that catch this one are dying (some stats have it as high as 5% whilst common flu is below 1%). Therefore preventing the spread (or attempting too) is a rational step. The WHO are saying that its too late to prevent it though, so it does seem like this is a reaction after the horse has not only bolted, but has made it to the next field, mated, raised a championship winning foal and is now off to glue factory.

Do you have a link to those stats, Nowhere have I heard that 1 in 20 people are dying from swine flu or 1 in 100 from normal flu, if that was the case the streets would be littered with bodies!

[ukrules]

Hi.

Stupid question. But what's all this "washing hands" do to a virus that is spread exclusively through the air, i.e. via coughing and sneezing..?? And i highly doubt that those silly masks have any effect on this virus. They can't even hold Diesel soot out, i've tried it.

Best regards.....

Thanh

Agreed, those face masks are just a way for the government to look as though it is doing something and that it cares about the people. They do nothing

to stop the spread of a virus. They are about as useful as wearing a raincoat to stop radiation poisoning.

There are different types of face masks, the loose fitting surgical masks only absorb some of the outgoing virus when someone sneezes or coughs, they offer no protection at all to the wearer. You can get respirator masks like the FFP3 rated ones which offer proper protection.

Someone mentioned N95 masks / respirators, these are only FFP2 rated so they let in more particles of a smaller size than an FFP3 does which means they offer less protection.

[gentaro]

Back here in the US the swine flu is all but forgotten. Nobody running around wearing masks. And we border Mexico where is started.

Cases in border states:

Texas - 900 cases, 3 deaths

California - 553 cases

Arizona - 520 cases, 2 deaths

New Mexico - 97 cases

United States total - 6,552 cases, 9 deaths

Hysteria in the only pandemic going on here. The 1976 Swine Flu vaccine killed 25 US whereas the Swine Flu only claimed 1 life.

[AsiaCheese]

This is what happens when you put 25-30% of an entire nation's population all into 1 big city. Not very smart, but Thailand is never known for their great scientists or ability to plan things well and in an organized manner.

Hardly a question of anyone "putting" lots of people in the big city... they migrated there by themselves... Happens all over the place... look at London, Mexico City, Los Angeles (the list goes through the floor)

[Thai at Heart]

This has all been a shameful display of competition for attention between the media and the WHO since it began. Now all levels of Thai government want to get into the act -- first they talk about closing the borders -- now they want to close the schools in BKK. More publicity -- MORE PANIC !

Why wait until July 15 to close the schools ? -- and why close them for only 5 days ? -- the accepted quarantine period for influenza is 2 weeks. Everyone wants to look good , but they only create more panic.

Some facts from WHO ( who declared this pandemic) -- last year there were about 1.1 billion infections of airborn influenza ( all strains of A and B virus) across the world -- and this resulted in between 400,000 and 500,000 deaths ( ,04% to .05%).

A(H1N1) according to WHO, has almost 1,000,000 infections ( a WHO official said one million at a press conference this week ) . The mortalities are almost 400. Strange !!! -- this is only .04% to .05% again.

Yes, A(H1N1) shows greater ability to replicate in the lungs, but each influenza strain has it own characteristics.

The real danger is two fold --- panic and misuse of medication. There are only two effective treatments for influenza, Relenza and Tamiflu. These are being used indiscriminately against A(H1N1) in low risk cases, and very soon A(H1N1) will become resistant to them. Soon we may have a problem. We will have created the problem with our panic. We wil have no treatment for the seriously ill patients.

Retired doctor in Lamphun

Are you saying there is a possibility that some cynical people are trying to manipulate a situation that there will be an incurable flu? I am getting more into conspiracy theory by the minute.

In which case, wouldn't it be better to catch it and survive before it mutates into something incurable?

[ukrules]

Why are they in a panic? Those who died have their previous diseases other than H1N1.

As there is over 100 people a day seeing the Dr and confirming they have this flu, yesterday over 4,000 people in Thailand have this and it appears that recently people per day are dying per TV there has been 13 people since last Thursday, so 13 more dead in 4 days

please quote your source(s) before you quote the ether? There are no WHO figures to back up your figures.

regards.

You do realise that the WHO figures are only laboratory confirmed cases, in reality there are several orders of magnitude more cases, this is an accepted fact and is so due to the fact that not everyone who has this disease is tested.

Also from what I have read the virus can live on a surface for up to 48 hours depending on whether the surface if porous or polished, etc

[moe666]

Good old ThaiVisa the Thai government is damned if they do and damned if they don't. Do a bit of reading on the 1918 flu you may change your mind about how bad a flu can be. That flu disappeared for a while but came back as the grim reaper. One of the biggest out breaks was in Philidelphia after a big parade to boost war bonds.

People were so weak from the flu they couldn't get out of bed to remove the person next to them who had died.

50,000 soliders died from the flu in 1918 about the same number who died in 10 years in Vietnam.

[Pawpcorn]

Cabinet approves Bt850 million to combat A(H1N1) pandemic

BANGKOK, July 14 (TNA) - The Thai Cabinet on Tuesday approved a Bt850 million budget to fight the influenza A(H1N1) pandemic which has killed at least 24 Thais, while infecting more than 4,000 others across the country.

//snip//

The Cabinet on Tuesday also resolved not to temporarily close schools to control the H1N1 outbreak.

//snip//

Political News : Last Update : 17:58:11 14 July 2009

Article link

Now wait a sec... does this mean that the decision to close the schools has been REVERSED??? My public school I teach at ISN'T being closed???

...dazed and confused, and not from the flu (bug, that is)

[Ga-gai]

And I can confirm that the Thai population doesn't know how to protect themselves, nor how the virus is transfered.

One hour ago I went to the local pharmacy in order to buy some headache pills for my wife. I was curious to investigate what the top 10 most sold items were right now.

-Mouth protection, the clerk replied. -In fact my stock is actually sold out. -I don't have anymore to sell.

And what about protective gloves and antiseptic washing? How many haw you sold so far?

-Gloves, none. -Antiseptic, probably 3 bottles this week.

So the Thais think that all that's needed is mouth protection. Cleaning hands and face, is probably same as usual. What is the government doing in order to enlighten the population?

[Oneman]

Back here in the US the swine flu is all but forgotten. ... Hysteria in the only pandemic going on here.

...Thank you, GunnyD, for posting that.

Far more useful to have clear facts like those, rather than endless hand-wringing and speculation.

Oneman

- Chiangmai

[wolf5370]

Why do people keep mentioning 1918 Spanish Flu as a comparative - the world is a whole different place than it was then. Medical and health services were almost helpless back then, much of the world had been weakend by a world war and general health, hygene and nutrician was much poorer than now.

One question I have - comign from the "retired doctor's" post earlier - I know bacterial infections can become immune (resistant) to antibiotics, but cam virii become immune to anti-virals? - I mean they are a completely different concept aren't they

[liloldspirut]

Stupid question. But what's all this 'washing hands' do to a virus that is spread exclusively through the air, i.e. via coughing and sneezing..?? And i highly doubt that those silly masks have any effect on this virus.

The effectiveness of the masks depends on the model used, but mostly on the actual handling of it. The outside of the mask is potentially contaminated, so you shouldn't touch it, and if you do, wash your hands before touching eyes, mouth, or nose (that's also why washing hands frequently makes sense). If you're already (potentially) infected then wearing the mask protects others because it limits your ability to spread germs. The transmission paths are apparently not yet fully understood, it might spread airborne, but it definitely spreads through touching contaminated surfaces.

For more info, the wikipedia page is pretty exhaustive:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic

This should be mentioned to the powers to be, in panic mode.