What Good Does Moaning Do? Honestly!

[Drew Aitch]

I haven't posted this to stir up a hornets' nest, and to be honest I rarely get involved in the angry threads on TV. But after logging on here to see threads like Tuk Tuks Trying It On, Khao Soi Ripoff, Apartment Rental Problems, and other such threads, I wonder why folks bother to post to begin with? This is not a direct pop at the afore mentioned, but to pick up on such threads generally.

Maybe some foreigners think they are giving a good service to others by warning of the perils and pitfalls of living in Thailand as an expat? Or perhaps they are just letting off steam by putting virtual pen to virtual paper as it were? Who knows, but it's usually the case that if you hang on to your anger or discontentment, then it typically gets worse, never better, until you mange to let it go.

When I first came here and started up a business in Bkk, I got so uptight and disgruntled on a daily basis that I thought my head was going to blow up on some days. I'd happily say things like, "Oh, if this was in the UK, they would never be allowed to get away with this or that!, and other such daft one-liners.

One night as I lay in bed after another stressful day in the office, it dawned on me that Thailand was not the UK, never will be the UK, and nothing or nobody is going to change it so that it more resembles the culture of the UK. I realised that I couldn't change anything around me other than me myself. In other words, my attitude.

So I had but 2 choices with no compromise in-between!

1) Sod off home and call it a day before I had a nervous breakdown

2) Learn to go more with the flow of things and to stop finding fault at every given opportunity.

I chose the latter and both my attitude and outlook with regards to living as a foreigner in Thailand have changed for the better. Because of the nature of the place, I never expect anything to go according to 'my plan' and if it does it's a bonus.

Moaning about Thais and Thailand, however justified it might be, or might seem to be at the time, is not going have the Thais adapt their way of doing things for the sake of the expat.

London cabby's are notorious for ripping off foreigners, at airports and train stations, so trying to get a bit of extra money from a fare is by no means unique to the Thais. The Pakistanis and Bangladeshi's are sick to the back teeth with British law and are currently protesting for a change which will allow them to adopt sharia law within their own communities.

So the pattern seems to be that anyone living as an 'alien' (for want of a better word) in a foreign country, fits into one of two categories. 1) The disgruntled 2) The contented. The latter have their ups and downs of course, but deal with their gripes locally, and let them pass before they have the chance to grow into huge resentments with a long life expectancy. The former refuse to let go of a grievance as they attempt to spread their misery to anyone who will lend them their ear and join their gang of happy complainers. The 'disgruntled' ones generally tend to be repeaters and if they're not moaning about one thing they're moaning about another…

It's like my old grandmother used to say, god rest her soul, if you can't stand the heat of the kitchen lad, then get out!!

Aitch

Edited July 16, 2009 by Drew Aitch

[philw]

You are dead right mate.

Talk about moaning minnies......................

Amusing if not so pathetic.

Phil.

[Drew Aitch]

This post has been moved but to be honest it was aimed at the gripes that come out of the Chiang Mai forum, hence the post in that particular room. I can't speak for other forums or locations on TV as I rarely visit them. Therefore, it makes the opening comments invalid as this piece was not aimed at the larger demographic.

Aitch

[IanForbes]

Good post, Aich. I agree. My brother and I are totally unalike. He sees things in either black or white. There is no grey in his world. I see everything in shades of grey and understand there are two sides to every story. My brother is always complaining and it's always been somebody else's fault for any of his many problems. I'm the opposite. I can see something positive even in the case of some tragedies. I CHOOSE to be happy and not care too much about what happens. Certainly things are not going to go right some times. That just goes with the ebb and flow of life. Luck runs both hot and cold and you have to know when let it go.

You can choose to be happy or choose to be sad. It's all up to you. Unfortunately, after a lifetime of complaining it's hard for some people to let go and change. It makes a mockery of all their previous years of self induced misery.

[buffalobob]

Nice post mate. Totally agree with you on everything.

We all know that this country can be infuriating at times but then again so is the UK.

Getting your knickers in a twist about everything does no good at all, this is not the UK, never has been and never will be, thank God.

I too hate all the whingers and actually feel sorry for them.

[sanmiguellight]

I couldnt read the full op post as ive a short attention span, but if complaining about something that is wrong gets it changed for the better then its a good thing isnt it?

[Tod Daniels]

Moaning about Thais and Thailand, however justified it might be, or might seem to be at the time, is not going have the Thais adapt their way of doing things for the sake of the expat.

I strongly disagree with that all encompassing blanket statement (something I usually hear made by foreign sock-puppets who have embraced their “thai-ness” in one way or another). Which is in my mind like expecting nothing and every once in a while having the thais exceed those expecations.

Moaning, complaining, and trying to 'raise the bar' here DOES have a significant impact. Granted it may not have any impact on a predominantly foreign populated, english language only forum which is read and/or comprehended by maybe a handful of thai nationals. However one need only to look at the international companies who operate here to international standards to see that this country and its indigenous population can be compelled to change. If there is sufficient incentive and/or financial penalty to them continuing to pretend its the "thai way or the highway" or will stop them from hiding behind their meaningless yet seemingly all encompassing phrase “you don’t understand thai culture” they WILL change. I have found if you hurt the thais enough financially they will change, even if you have to almost forcibly drag them kicking and screaming into changing.

I also believe venting on this forum is a good way to stop foreigners from "going postal" (an Americanism; go look it up).

Everyone needs to blow off steam once in a while. If an anonymous internet forum is their chosen venue who are you to either discount their opinion or judge their take on all things thai.

Realize this is a very small, very insignificant, third world S/E Asian country which most people couldn't find on the map of the world. While I fully accept things are not as they would be in say the US or UK, I have no problem holding people to a higher standard, rather than 'going with the flow'. Accepting a situation as just another oxymoronic thing here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" without trying to address the root problem; thais unwillingness to change, does little good.

I see nothing wrong with posting about scams, voicing disgust at the blatant lies and erroneous information. Most people who post or read the forum are at least semi-mature enough to judge for themselves if something warrants merit, is just a rant or is out and out thai bashing (of which I have been guilty of in the past, but thankfully have developed into a kinder gentler Tod).

Great post, (albeit just as much of a rant as the posts you mentioned) …

Keep up the great work, maybe a career in motivational speaking or something

(edited for sa-pelling)

Edited July 16, 2009 by tod-daniels

[mauGR1]

Yes,sometimes moaning is boring,but if i had known Thaivisa Forum back in 2004,when i decided to live in LOS,i could have spared myself a broken heart and a lot of money(sick buffalo again) .This Forum is fantastic,lot of useful information in many different topics,and the great majority of the forumers IMO are interesting people i would like to talk with.

[yabaaaa]

Im a moaner always will be, nothing wrong with moaning Thais are taught to "accept" too much, many take it as the norm , never complain never do anything, close the door pretend its not there.

That said it doesnt drive me mad I wont let it nag away forever.

[neverdie]

Sounds like the OP is having a MOAN about MOANING! Theres nothing like going with the flow of it !

[wilsongbrown]

I haven't posted this to stir up a hornets' nest, and to be honest I rarely get involved in the angry threads on TV. But after logging on here to see threads like Tuk Tuks Trying It On, Khao Soi Ripoff, Apartment Rental Problems, and other such threads, I wonder why folks bother to post to begin with? This is not a direct pop at the afore mentioned, but to pick up on such threads generally.

Maybe some foreigners think they are giving a good service to others by warning of the perils and pitfalls of living in Thailand as an expat? Or perhaps they are just letting off steam by putting virtual pen to virtual paper as it were? Who knows, but it's usually the case that if you hang on to your anger or discontentment, then it typically gets worse, never better, until you mange to let it go.

When I first came here and started up a business in Bkk, I got so uptight and disgruntled on a daily basis that I thought my head was going to blow up on some days. I'd happily say things like, "Oh, if this was in the UK, they would never be allowed to get away with this or that!, and other such daft one-liners.

One night as I lay in bed after another stressful day in the office, it dawned on me that Thailand was not the UK, never will be the UK, and nothing or nobody is going to change it so that it more resembles the culture of the UK. I realised that I couldn't change anything around me other than me myself. In other words, my attitude.

So I had but 2 choices with no compromise in-between!

1) Sod off home and call it a day before I had a nervous breakdown

2) Learn to go more with the flow of things and to stop finding fault at every given opportunity.

I chose the latter and both my attitude and outlook with regards to living as a foreigner in Thailand have changed for the better. Because of the nature of the place, I never expect anything to go according to 'my plan' and if it does it's a bonus.

Moaning about Thais and Thailand, however justified it might be, or might seem to be at the time, is not going have the Thais adapt their way of doing things for the sake of the expat.

London cabby's are notorious for ripping off foreigners, at airports and train stations, so trying to get a bit of extra money from a fare is by no means unique to the Thais. The Pakistanis and Bangladeshi's are sick to the back teeth with British law and are currently protesting for a change which will allow them to adopt sharia law within their own communities.

So the pattern seems to be that anyone living as an 'alien' (for want of a better word) in a foreign country, fits into one of two categories. 1) The disgruntled 2) The contented. The latter have their ups and downs of course, but deal with their gripes locally, and let them pass before they have the chance to grow into huge resentments with a long life expectancy. The former refuse to let go of a grievance as they attempt to spread their misery to anyone who will lend them their ear and join their gang of happy complainers. The 'disgruntled' ones generally tend to be repeaters and if they're not moaning about one thing they're moaning about another…

It's like my old grandmother used to say, god rest her soul, if you can't stand the heat of the kitchen lad, then get out!!

Aitch

I agree with the gist of your post, but here we go again: It's not a case of Thais v farang, Thais get just as frustrated with the slowness, the lack of response to legitimate complaints, shoddiness, re goods and services, the rip offs, (yes, even Thais rip off/lie to other Thais ). And given the kreng jai nature of Thai culture, I think they appreciate the very non 'kreng jai' of the odd farang willing to kick up a bit now and again, much like some Thais take it upon themselves to do.

Yes, don't get out of your pram, have a cow, over someone who's 5 minutes late, been 'economical with the truth' over some aspects of business practice here, but on the other hand, don't roll over just because you think 'it's the Thai Way', it's not necessarily and going with the flow with a firm hand on the tiller the best way forward for ALL who live and work in this country. I think.

Edited July 17, 2009 by soundman
Fixed formatting. Take care with your quote tags please.

[wilsongbrown]

I agree with the gist of your post, but here we go again: It's not a case of Thais v farang, Thais get just as frustrated with the slowness, the lack of response to legitimate complaints, shoddiness, re goods and services, the rip offs, (yes, even Thais rip off/lie to other Thais ). And given the kreng jai nature of Thai culture, I think they appreciate the very non 'kreng jai' of the odd farang willing to kick up a bit now and again, much like some Thais take it upon themselves to do.

Yes, don't get out of your pram, have a cow, over someone who's 5 minutes late, been 'economical with the truth' over some aspects of business practice here, but on the other hand, don't roll over just because you think 'it's the Thai Way', it's not necessarily and going with the flow with a firm hand on the tiller the best way forward for ALL who live and work in this country. I think.

[geriatrickid]

Think of it as therapy. Face it, we all have Thai friends or family (or at least those that aren't too miserable have) and it's better to do it in here than with them. I make faces when frustrated and my friends have ripped into me for that. I store up all my angst and unhappiness and release it in here. Sort of like visiting the loo after you have had a few beers with your friends down at the pub. You can let loose discreetly. No toilet seat to put down and hence no wrath from the missus.

BTW, did you see the news release a day or so ago that indicated that swearing was beneficial when one was in pain? It was a release mechanism. Same same here.

[getgoin]

I for one would like to moan about this topic and the moaners and groaners.

[Scott]

I am a chronic moaner. I release a lot of my complaints here and it really makes life a lot easier for my co-workers. I can smile at them and think "when I get home, I'm going to post that stupid thing they did."

[garyh]

Sounds like the OP is having a MOAN about MOANING! Theres nothing like going with the flow of it !

He is from the UK.

[FD333]

Whilst Drew Aitch's well written post is not in the same vein as the imbecilic 'if you don't like it go home" variety, as with tod-daniels, I could not disagree more. Furthermore, I wish people would stop posting from this position as though it is some kind of philosophy, a way to live life. Its vacuous and meaningless.

I am a positive person and in fact do not complain much at all about anything. I believe in the power of a positive mental attitude and have prospered in Thailand. However, much as I love this country, wish to stay living here, the ability of Thais to surprise you with their warmth and generosity is counter balanced in their ability to underwhelm with acts of complete of utter folly amid an absense of logic.

As a large part of the Thai culture seems to be about keeping the status quo, Thais in many circumstances hold their tongue and do not complain, they feel they must take it and accept it. If anybody thinks that this is all with a 'mai pen rai' shrug of the shoulders, it isn't. However, the average Thai will not speak up and therefore endure a constant stream of inefficiences on many levels.

As foreigners, it should be regarded as a resposibility to speak up, to virtually confront at times and under varying circumstances to get something handled better. This has nothing to do with some old whinger at the bar-beer having a bitch about all and sundry. That is where this argument stems from. Everyone hates a whinger...but what in God's name has that got to do with the average foreigner pointing out some area which could do with improvement? How do you think, hospitals, banks, hotels would have improved over the years if someone at some point had not complained. That's life, people speaking up and pointing how to improve the life experience. This has nothing to do with assimilating into a country or accepting 'Thainess'.

As pointed out, ISO rated companies and their staff compete on an international level and you will find that Thais who work in such companies are a very motivated and proud bunch. An industry that has consistently produced world class workers is that of the hotel industry where 5 star hotels have full complements of industrious and commited individuals. However, drop down a few levels and it is astonishing how many hotels here are run with an appalling lack of interest at the guest experience.

After living here for 12 years, whilst there are always exceptions to the rule, I have generally seen service in stores and restaurants etc decline rather than improve. That said, if you ever want to see service and efficiency all you have to do is spot some high-so, connected, ranking person enter any business establishment and enjoy witnessing the politeness, the grace, the efficiency exhibited on their behalf by the staff. The first time I witnessed such behaviour I laughed at myself and my buying into the whole 'don't complain', don't be the rude foreigner nonsense. It's the same with exhibiting anger. Walk around like a bear with a sore head, angry all the time and you will be rightfully despised. On the other hand, on a daily basis if you are known for your patience and politeness, having a well timed, and deserved temper outburst once in a blue moon has produced some of my most efficient spells here.

[mrtoad]

Sounds like the OP is having a MOAN about MOANING! Theres nothing like going with the flow of it !

He is from the UK.

I recall a well known Aussie whinging last week, not just the Brits who moan.

[mj9945]

<br />I haven't posted this to stir up a hornets' nest, and to be honest I rarely get involved in the angry threads on TV. But after logging on here to see threads like Tuk Tuks Trying It On, Khao Soi Ripoff, Apartment Rental Problems, and other such threads, I wonder why folks bother to post to begin with? <b>This is not a direct pop at the afore mentioned, but to pick up on such threads generally.</b><br /><br />Maybe some foreigners think they are giving a good service to others by warning of the perils and pitfalls of living in Thailand as an expat? Or perhaps they are just letting off steam by putting virtual pen to virtual paper as it were? Who knows, but it's usually the case that if you hang on to your anger or discontentment, then it typically gets worse, never better, until you mange to let it go.<br /><br />When I first came here and started up a business in Bkk, I got so uptight and disgruntled on a daily basis that I thought my head was going to blow up on some days. I'd happily say things like, <i>"Oh, if this was in the UK, they would never be allowed to get away with this or that!</i>, and other such daft one-liners.<br /><br />One night as I lay in bed after another stressful day in the office, it dawned on me that Thailand was not the UK, never will be the UK, and nothing or nobody is going to change it so that it more resembles the culture of the UK. I realised that I couldn't change anything around me other than me myself. In other words, my attitude.<br /><br />So I had but 2 choices with no compromise in-between!<br /><br />1) Sod off home and call it a day before I had a nervous breakdown<br />2) Learn to go more with the flow of things and to stop finding fault at every given opportunity.<br /><br />I chose the latter and both my attitude and outlook with regards to living as a foreigner in Thailand have changed for the better. Because of the nature of the place, I never expect anything to go according to 'my plan' and if it does it's a bonus. <br /><br />Moaning about Thais and Thailand, however justified it might be, or might seem to be at the time, is not going have the Thais adapt their way of doing things for the sake of the expat. <br /><br />London cabby's are notorious for ripping off foreigners, at airports and train stations, so trying to get a bit of extra money from a fare is by no means unique to the Thais. The Pakistanis and Bangladeshi's are sick to the back teeth with British law and are currently protesting for a change which will allow them to adopt sharia law within their own communities. <br /><br />So the pattern seems to be that anyone living as an 'alien' (for want of a better word) in a foreign country, fits into one of two categories. 1) The disgruntled 2) The contented. The latter have their ups and downs of course, but deal with their gripes locally, and let them pass before they have the chance to grow into huge resentments with a long life expectancy. The former refuse to let go of a grievance as they attempt to spread their misery to anyone who will lend them their ear and join their gang of happy complainers. The 'disgruntled' ones generally tend to be repeaters and if they're not moaning about one thing they're moaning about another…<br /><br />It's like my old grandmother used to say, god rest her soul, if you can't stand the heat of the kitchen lad, then get out!!<br /><br />Aitch<br />

<br /><br /><br />

in some part you are in way correct

however only when it is petty nonsense subjects

, the type liked by many who post here, there will not be much of a change about the odd vendor, the rip taxi, etc

but to say that the west and westerners cannot change certain things about Thailand is wrong.

As an extreme example the British, with full permission of the USA bombed Bangkok for it non compliance to certain typical Thai style memory lapses over ww2 war policy.

The message being " forget our orders again- and forget Bangkok, or we will level you into dust"

The threats these days are far more economic than that, but nobody should really be under any illusion of who is really in control of this country.

Please do think it is a kind heated,well meaning certain gentleman who portrait is up in many places.

Thailand has since complied to each and every "directive"( read "order") from the west. The simple truth is- it has no choice.

I think too much moaning becomes boring, and is too petty, some is justified and Thailand, unfortunately is still like a child in that it still needs someone to watch over it.In so many ways, for its own good

[neverdie]

Sounds like the OP is having a MOAN about MOANING! Theres nothing like going with the flow of it !

He is from the UK.

I recall a well known Aussie whinging last week, not just the Brits who moan.

Take a week off Toad, the pressure is getting to you

[purplehaze]

The TV would be boring if it were full of nodding donkey's everyone is entitled to their opinion, I like sugar puffs you might like frosties etc were not clones.

[mrtoad]

Sounds like the OP is having a MOAN about MOANING! Theres nothing like going with the flow of it !

He is from the UK.

I recall a well known Aussie whinging last week, not just the Brits who moan.

Take a week off Toad, the pressure is getting to you

ND that particular Aussie isn't looking to happy again.

[neverdie]

^ sounds like a bit of bad luck then toad, som nom na springs to mind

[neverdie]

The TV would be boring if it were full of nodding donkey's everyone is entitled to their opinion, I like sugar puffs you might like frosties etc were not clones.

Never a truer statement!

[JimsKnight]

Not much in the long term. Good for a short spurt for letting off steam and that's about it.

Basically keep it real and not negative.

Neutral and positive is the key here.

You'll get bitter, end up a mental wreck if you let sht get you down.

Thailand is a fine country for living, but only if you give it respect.

[khundon]

I DON'T BELIEVE IT.

[tominchaam]

It seems to me like most of the complainers on this forum are people with little international experiences even if many have a lot of experiences from their home country. Those who have been expatriates in various countries seem to adapt more easily to the conditions here in Thailand and hereby are able to highlight more on the advantages than the disadvantages. I do meet quite a lot of people from various countries here as well and the pattern seems to stay the same.

But I might be wrong of course!

[G54]

A good venting is good for the system, why let the pressure build and suffer a blown gasket when we can let off steam here at times

[Misplaced]

Whining and complaining is fine but this site are full people who just love to embellished the truth to add excitement to their story. Many times the story gets to the point of ludicrous and disrespectful of their own partner, Thai women...etc...That's a bit much for me.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Misplaced

[mommysboy]

I haven't posted this to stir up a hornets' nest, and to be honest I rarely get involved in the angry threads on TV. But after logging on here to see threads like Tuk Tuks Trying It On, Khao Soi Ripoff, Apartment Rental Problems, and other such threads, I wonder why folks bother to post to begin with? This is not a direct pop at the afore mentioned, but to pick up on such threads generally.

Maybe some foreigners think they are giving a good service to others by warning of the perils and pitfalls of living in Thailand as an expat? Or perhaps they are just letting off steam by putting virtual pen to virtual paper as it were? Who knows, but it's usually the case that if you hang on to your anger or discontentment, then it typically gets worse, never better, until you mange to let it go.

When I first came here and started up a business in Bkk, I got so uptight and disgruntled on a daily basis that I thought my head was going to blow up on some days. I'd happily say things like, "Oh, if this was in the UK, they would never be allowed to get away with this or that!, and other such daft one-liners.

One night as I lay in bed after another stressful day in the office, it dawned on me that Thailand was not the UK, never will be the UK, and nothing or nobody is going to change it so that it more resembles the culture of the UK. I realised that I couldn't change anything around me other than me myself. In other words, my attitude.

So I had but 2 choices with no compromise in-between!

1) Sod off home and call it a day before I had a nervous breakdown

2) Learn to go more with the flow of things and to stop finding fault at every given opportunity.

I chose the latter and both my attitude and outlook with regards to living as a foreigner in Thailand have changed for the better. Because of the nature of the place, I never expect anything to go according to 'my plan' and if it does it's a bonus.

Moaning about Thais and Thailand, however justified it might be, or might seem to be at the time, is not going have the Thais adapt their way of doing things for the sake of the expat.

London cabby's are notorious for ripping off foreigners, at airports and train stations, so trying to get a bit of extra money from a fare is by no means unique to the Thais. The Pakistanis and Bangladeshi's are sick to the back teeth with British law and are currently protesting for a change which will allow them to adopt sharia law within their own communities.

So the pattern seems to be that anyone living as an 'alien' (for want of a better word) in a foreign country, fits into one of two categories. 1) The disgruntled 2) The contented. The latter have their ups and downs of course, but deal with their gripes locally, and let them pass before they have the chance to grow into huge resentments with a long life expectancy. The former refuse to let go of a grievance as they attempt to spread their misery to anyone who will lend them their ear and join their gang of happy complainers. The 'disgruntled' ones generally tend to be repeaters and if they're not moaning about one thing they're moaning about another…

It's like my old grandmother used to say, god rest her soul, if you can't stand the heat of the kitchen lad, then get out!!

Aitch

In all honesty mate I'd rather have the moaners. People like you don't cut it. Generally I distrust postings like this. They try to turn things in to black and white, either you're a good guy or not, it's black or white, your happy or your not, like it or lump it.

One truth: this is Thailand, you won't change it. Other than that there is a need to maintain standards otherwise you'll very likely be sucked in to the mire.

No offence but OP sounds like one of those guys who doesn't think beneath the surface!

Suggest he does a bit of research in to cutting geordian knots and perils that obtains.