Chinese Money Lenders

[Rolo Tomazi]

Hi, I'm new to the forum and have a question I can't find any answers for through the search engine. My girlfriend of almost four years borrowed 23.000 Baht from a chinese loan shark 16 months ago which blossomed into a debt of 42.000 Baht by now. Is there any advice out there, any other possibility than paying it back to get rid of that problem, or do I have to bite the bullett?

[toastwars]

bite the bullit, you are on a hiding to nothing trying to wriggle out of it.

it sounds like you should have thought it through a bit more 16 months

ago and if she didn't consult you about it then why are you having to bail

her out now?

[Oleg_Rus]

try to re-negotiate with sharks to pay partially by installments or kind of. Any cash flow is better than none.

don't try to cheat them - wouldn't work, can bring troubles.

cheers

[aletta]

It will be impossible to get the loan shark off her back if they know she has a farang boyfriend,the assumption being you have pots of cash.

[Heng]

Just don't pay it back. I'd say at most you'll have to deal with is some mean words. You're not going to catch any real flak for that small amount of money unless the lender is some newbie to the biz who has one client (you).

p.s. people default all the time just like with the banks. don't be under the impression that no one can default.

Edited February 26, 2005 by Heng

[HarryHacker]

If you can, pay up and move on, live and learn. Do not run away from it.

[thaiflyer1]

p.s.  people default all the time just like with the banks.  don't be under the impression that no one can default.

Too true thats why the rates are so high, i/m surprised she got the money so cheap 2 baht interest per 100 baht per day is the norm around my neck of the woods for such an amount.

[Heng]

Around here (in Bangkok and in Cholburi)... it's between 3-5% per month, secured with land deed. 15-20% per month unsecured.

[thaiflyer1]

Around here (in Bangkok and in Cholburi)... it's between 3-5% per month, secured with land deed.  15-20% per month unsecured.

Put your prices up Heng! .............i/m in Chonburi. Given the members who lurk about in this forum i should point out thats its a chinese/thai friend of mine who's in the buisness and not myself..........

Edited February 26, 2005 by thaiflyer1

[JacknDanny]

Just don't pay it back.  I'd say at most you'll have to deal with is some mean words.  You're not going to catch any real flak for that small amount of money    unless the lender is some newbie to the biz who has one client (you). 

p.s.  people default all the time just like with the banks.  don't be under the impression that no one can default.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dont listen to this advice. Pay it off, learn by your mistake and move on. Defaulters generally turn up in a klong or if you are lucky, minus the odd limb or three

[Braccobaldo]

...best is to pay as soon as possible...my opinion

[p_brownstone]

Definitely pay up.

Loan sharking is a serious business here, and the lender cannot afford to be seen as weak, let one borrower default without penalty and others will assume they can too.

In Thailand there are specialist individuals / Companies who “reng rat nee” – chase up debts on behalf of borrowers for a fee or a percentage of whatever is recovered; methods range from standing outside your house and shouting out details of your situation, visits to your Office to cause embarrassment all the way to physical assault and, in extreme cases, murder.

Your Loan Shark will definitely know how to get hold of these people.

For such a small amount it really is not worth it for you to try to default.

Patrick

Edited February 27, 2005 by p_brownstone

[Heng]

Definitely pay up.

Loan sharking is a serious business here, and the lender cannot afford to be seen as weak, let one borrower default without penalty and others will assume they can too.

In Thailand there are specialist individuals / Companies who “reng rat nee” – chase up debts on behalf of borrowers for a fee or a percentage of whatever is recovered; methods range from standing outside your house and shouting out details of your situation, visits to your Office to cause embarrassment all the way to physical assault and, in extreme cases, murder.

Your Loan Shark will definitely know how to get hold of these people.

For such a small amount it really is not worth it for you to try to default.

Patrick

Definitely pay up is good advice all around.... but easier said than done for a flat broke farang with (likely) no assets to speak of. Agree with the 'standing outside your house, publicly shouting out how you are in debt' as a common tactic of collectors. It's these situations that often show for both locals and foreigners alike, face is a real issue (whether they admit it or not on the web).

Edited February 27, 2005 by Heng

[Thetyim]

Agreed. Pay up first and then tackle your second problem....your GF.

Why did she borrow money, did you know about it ?

She will do the same thing again unless you take action now.

[lopburi3]

Definitely pay up.

Loan sharking is a serious business here, and the lender cannot afford to be seen as weak, let one borrower default without penalty and others will assume they can too.

In Thailand there are specialist individuals / Companies who “reng rat nee” – chase up debts on behalf of borrowers for a fee or a percentage of whatever is recovered; methods range from standing outside your house and shouting out details of your situation, visits to your Office to cause embarrassment all the way to physical assault and, in extreme cases, murder.

Your Loan Shark will definitely know how to get hold of these people.

For such a small amount it really is not worth it for you to try to default.

Patrick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Definitely pay up is good advice all around.... but easier said than done for a flat broke farang with (likely) no assets to speak of. Agree with the 'standing outside your house, publicly shouting out how you are in debt' as a common tactic of collectors. It's these situations that often show for both locals and foreigners alike, face is a real issue (whether they admit it or not on the web).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Poster made no claim to being a flat broke farang and to compare with defalt on a bank loan or credit card is foolish IMHO. This whole thing is illegal so do not expect those engaged in it to honor legal means. Arrange for payment - she owes the money - if you have to make several payments so be it - do not risk the alternatives in a place you do not know. As said this is very serious.

[Pattaya_Fox]

Hi, I'm new to the forum and have a question I can't find any answers for through the search engine. My girlfriend of almost four years borrowed 23.000 Baht from a chinese loan shark 16 months ago which blossomed into a debt of 42.000 Baht by now. Is there any advice out there, any other possibility than paying it back to get rid of that problem, or do I have to bite the bullett?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pay it off before it escalates further...

Speak to your girlfriend....and make sure that she does not borrow again.

[phazey]

Pay it off in such a way your GF does not do it again. like, buying the loan, but still having your GF liable for it. Get her to pay you a few hundred baht a week - when it's all done, have a nice holiday on it (with her of course). I know this sounds calous, but if there is one thing i know, it's how some thais cannot manage money. You are not a get out of jail free card. Have your GF learn from this experiance in a gentle way, as opposed to you getting your or her face kicked in...

[SEAtramp]

Be very careful of how much you get involved with your girlfriends debt. If they see that you are in anyway involved & see you as having potential to pay, then you will almost certainly be approached. IE if you own a bar or G/house or anything that they could intimidate against you as a lever, it will be used.

Just don't pay it back. I'd say at most you'll have to deal with is some mean words. You're not going to catch any real flak for that small amount of money unless the lender is some newbie to the biz who has one client (you).

So very wrong. While the amount may not be a huge sum, that becomes secondary to the loss of face taken from the lender. You borrow from these guys in Thailand, YOU PAY BACK, end of story.

I had this happen to a friend of mine, same thing girlfriend borrowed to pay gambling debts. Cut a long story short, her farang boyfriend lost his bar,G/house and now resides in Cambodia. To return to Thailand would be very unhealthy for him.

[Heng]

Not repaying a debt doesn't cause a loss of face per se. It's bragging about not paying someone back, using impolite words while refusing to pay, etc. that causes those sudden falls from high places and multiple self inflicted gunshot wounds to the head and groin, not necessarily in that order.

[chaiyapoon]

A good friend of mine has a girlfriend who got into serious debt from gambling.

She came to him to get her out of trouble apparently not for the first time.She had run up unsecured debts to loan sharks,friends,and relatives all over town at mostly 10% per month.The total with interest was 300,000baht!

He looked at who was owed what and paid off the Loan sharks warning them he will never pay off any more loans . He refused to pay back the friends and relatives to teach her a lesson.The friends and relatives gave her a very hard time as they could not realy afford the loans long term.He has not paid some of them even a year later.She can't get credit anywhere and he has warned her he will end the relationship if the gambling continues.

He told me that some of the Loan Sharks were little old ladies, but with eyes of steel,and usually several sons to back up their claims.

It is unwise to let a debt run in Thailand. A 10,000b debt will have doubled to 20,000b in 10 months.Totally crazy to me!!! Just wish I could get 10% ayear.

[night_rider]

He told me that some of the Loan Sharks were little old ladies, but with eyes of steel,and usually several sons to back up their claims.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is my experience as well. My ex-fiancee's father lent money at 2-3 points per month and always with collateral. He never solicited the business but was approached with respect by people within this home town in Samut Songkhram. His son-in-law was a police officer but I got the impression it never came to this point. If there was a default he'd just take the collateral though he'd prefer the cash.

Anyway the view that there is a Chinese mafia of loan sharks out there may be accurate somewhere but not in my experience. They're just normal folks with a bit of money to lend servicing those who cannot get loans by other means.

[pluto_manibo]

Pay off her debt only as severance pay...That is to say, pay off the debt and walk away....

[Rolo Tomazi]

Thanks guys. Must say I really like this forum - good responses all around and a nice atmosphere. The only response I didn't like was criticized by others.

I left out some details since I was not sure if I want them in the open in a forum I didn't know. I was not aware of that loan and it's about the third time in almost four years that she "tricked" small amounts out of me. It's my experience that you can sink 10 grand a month into the family and after 2 years there's absolutelt nothing to show for it. When I met her, I took care of her immediate probs which cost me something like 60K. It's not my first time in Thailand and I am wawre of the fact that the girls wouldn't be working in a bar if they jadn't some serious financial problems. But after the initial fix-up (hospital bills for the birth of the baby the "husband" didn't pay aso) I sent her mother 2000 Baht amonth, told her that's it. They live far away and we have no contact. Then she hocked my motorcycle without my knowledge, had to bail it out. Then 16K for the sister. No big amounts. She says: "When I ask you, you say no" and that seems to be enough reason to steal - that's what it is. But I know the family pressures her, and she doesn't go out and gamble or drink or buy telefones or goldchains. She has to help the family. She is otherwise a very honest and hard working woman, and I love her and the daughter, now 5. So I forgive her as long as it doesn't escalate, and it didn't. Of course she promises she'll never do it again. Maybe I shouldn't be so stingy with her, but I'm trying to get by as an english teacher. We live a comfortable life but I can't support the family.

Basically I was looking for a way out, but guess I'll have to pay. So no new Honda Wave, but a donation to the poor of the Isaan. I can live with that.

[seahorse]

Looking for a way out? Just dump her. It's her debt, not yours.

[Heng]

Anyway the view that there is a Chinese mafia of loan sharks out there may be accurate somewhere but not in my experience. They're just normal folks with a bit of money to lend servicing those who cannot get loans by other means.

Exactly. Money lenders have feelings too. To be called a shark (a cold blooded killer only good for soup) hurts. It really does.

But seriously though, I'd say 99.725% of the business comes completely unsolicited. It's like the natives can sniff out where the dosh is, (never mind if they could just forego on the new motorcycle or truck for a couple of years, they'd have some savings themselves) not caring at all what their income stream is, and in many cases probably not understanding how interest compounds.

[Joey Boy]

sounds like shes takin you for a ride Rolo.. From what you say, this isnt the first time shes tryed to force/steal money from you, and its not gonna be the last!

Whats gonna happen if @ some time in the future, you get a house in her name etc? If its a condo, make sure yer on the ground floor

Get rid!

[COBBER]

But I know the family pressures her, and she doesn't go out and gamble or drink or buy telefones or goldchains. She has to help the family. She is otherwise a very honest and hard working woman

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rolo, this is very common amongst the less afluant famillies in thailand. There is allways one familly member who is picked on as the provider or to bail out other familly members when they get into difficulties. You see people of otherwise good character stoop to almost anything in order to fullfill there socalled family obligations. Unfortunately this absolute loyalty is so deeply ingrained i dont think you will ever see any change. I often wonder what would happen if the provider got into some difficulties. Would the other family members help to bail them out.

[HarryHacker]

Looking for a way out? Just dump her. It's her debt, not yours.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You may be sure but I think he meant he was looking for a way out of paying the debt, not the relationship.

[toastwars]

I think he should be looking for a way out of the relationship, She is running up debts, lying to him, selling his possesions...A real dream girl...wake up she will continue to rob you as long as you keep letting her.. get rid asap

[Kringle]

Wake up and smell the roses, you're just being used as a money machine and nothing else. Does someone need to hit you with a frying pan to get your attention, jeez and I thought jackasses were stupid. You are either a troll or one of the most gullible or stupid people I ever seen.