Bangkok Airways Crash in Koh Samui

[george]

Samui Airport remains closed:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Samui-Airpor...ed-t285945.html

[Heng]

Wow, this one strikes a nerve. Chills when I heard it. We fly this route, and likely this very plane, 6-7 times a year on average. Have to admit that I am a bit concerned at times that their pilots are a bit youngish (apparently many are US inter-Thais... as they even mimick a Texas drawl when they are having fun) and seem to cowboy around a bit (particularly doing that 'I don't have to come to a complete stop before starting my takeoff run' thing), but apparently this wasn't the issue in this case.

[geriatrickid]

For those speculating on the weather conditions, please note the METAR data at time of crash

VTSM 040700Z 29015KT 9000 FEW020TCU SCT120 BKN300 31/25 Q1007 A2974 TCU-NW

VTSM 040600Z 29012KT 9999 FEW020 SCT120 32/25 Q1007 A2976

VTSM 040400Z 24004KT 9999 FEW020 SCT120 31/24 Q1008 A2979

VTSM 040300Z 27008KT 9999 FEW020 SCT120 SCT300 31/24 Q1008 A2979

VTSM 040200Z 27010KT 9999 FEW020 SCT120 30/24 Q1008 A2979

I'll leave it for those with weather and flight skills to provide their opinions.

[Stuart8]

Yes Stuart8 i understand your post. But surely there is a difference between "Training" and "Experiencing" . I would have thought that the 2nd pilot would have to be fully trained before he got his licence to fly passenger planes, and then he gets the experience, often flying smaller aircraft etc.

Only guesswork on my behalf, but i am thinking of taking the train the next time. lolololol

Believe me the most dangerous situation is where you have two senior captains flying together: 'Oh! I thought you had control'

Indeed the 2nd pilot is fully trained and fully licenced on the aircraft type. Experience is another thing entirely. The captain will fly the approach if the weather conditions are marginal. The safety of the passengers is always top priority. Where the copilot needs the experience of a difficult approach it will always be only with a senior training captain where he is monitored very carefully. Normal line captains cannot allow a copilot to fly the approach in difficult conditions.

Flying is generally very safe. You will hear about it if it is not! Your train on the other hand ...

[Scott]

My condolences to the pilot's family, friends and colleagues. My wishes for a speedy recovery to those injured.

[Sumittra]

Bangkok Airways plane skids out of runway at Samui Airport

KOH SAMUI: -- A Bangkok Airways plane caught fire Tuesday afternoon after it skidded out of and crashed into the Control Tower building while landing at its Samui Airport Tuesday afternoon.

The accident happened at 2:30 pm.

The flight arrived from Krabi.

Several passengers were injured.

-- The Nation 2009-08-04

Thai News said the pilot was die and some passenger were arm/legs broken. Most of the passenger are foreigner.

Too sad

[reallyok]

I am still a little worried as i thought it was safer to fly to Samui rather than take the VIP Coach !

A passenger aircraft crashes anywhere in the world and we all hear about it. How many coach crashes, or car crashes, are there that we never hear about?

I am now in the UK but I heard about this crash. It is even on the BBC news. I wouldn't expect to hear if your VIP coach crashed though!

Hi Stuart8 ..............about the VIP Coach, all said with "tongue in cheek". But that mode of transport can be very 'hairy' in Thailand, especially when two of them are racing two abreast for the next blind bend.............believe it !

[SueRSA]

A plane has crashed into a control tower on landing at Koh Samui airport in Thailand, killing at least one person.

Strong winds and rain caused the ATR-72 jet to veer off course and hit the control tower which is used as a car park for fire engines.

According to the 'Bangkok Post', the pilot was killed, while other reports say that 41 passengers were injured and have been rushed to hospital.

The Bangkok Airways flight PG 266 was due to land on the holiday island at 2pm local time from the paradise of Krabi near Phuket.

There were 68 passengers and four crew members on board. The nationalities of the victims are not yet known, but the island is popular with tourists.

After the crash, Thai Airways International cancelled two flights to Koh Samui, which left more than 200 passengers stranded.

Koh Samui airport has been closed.

[NanLaew]

Condolences to the family of the Captain and best wishes and prayers for those injured.

Regards samuijacks eye-witness account. It appears that the plane had already touched down and was well down the runway when it veered off and collided with the building.

As well as flaps and brakes, turbo-props also use reverse pitch on the props to decelerate rapidly once on the runway. It's possible here that the starboard props did not actually reverse pitch and when power was increased for engine braking, the forward thrust induced by the normal pitch starboard props counteracted the weaker reverse thrust from the port engine props, turning the plane off the runway.

[Stuart8]

Wow, this one strikes a nerve. Chills when I heard it. We fly this route, and likely this very plane, 6-7 times a year on average. Have to admit that I am a bit concerned at times that their pilots are a bit youngish (apparently many are US inter-Thais... as they even mimick a Texas drawl when they are having fun) and seem to cowboy around a bit (particularly doing that 'I don't have to come to a complete stop before starting my takeoff run' thing), but apparently this wasn't the issue in this case.

6 or 7 times a year and you've not had an accident yet? Just think how many others have flown the route and not had accidents either.

By the way when you are cleared to takeoff you enter the runway 'stand up' the throttles, check the power comes up on both engines and the t's and p's (temperatures and pressures) are good and off you go. Stopping only means you have to get going again. Nothing unsafe about a rolling takeoff.

[reallyok]

Yes Stuart8 i understand your post. But surely there is a difference between "Training" and "Experiencing" . I would have thought that the 2nd pilot would have to be fully trained before he got his licence to fly passenger planes, and then he gets the experience, often flying smaller aircraft etc.

Only guesswork on my behalf, but i am thinking of taking the train the next time. lolololol

Believe me the most dangerous situation is where you have two senior captains flying together: 'Oh! I thought you had control'

Indeed the 2nd pilot is fully trained and fully licenced on the aircraft type. Experience is another thing entirely. The captain will fly the approach if the weather conditions are marginal. The safety of the passengers is always top priority. Where the copilot needs the experience of a difficult approach it will always be only with a senior training captain where he is monitored very carefully. Normal line captains cannot allow a copilot to fly the approach in difficult conditions.

Flying is generally very safe. You will hear about it if it is not! Your train on the other hand ...

Just kidding Stuart8. I love flying ever since my first long haul in an old Avro York back in the early 50's .

Colombo-London, 8000ft all the way, stopped every night, took about 5 days ! Flight deck crew 5. Cabin staff 2 full completment of passengers 26.

These days i fly a microlight for fun. (seat of the pants)

[Crash999]

Two airbus aircraft took off on runway 35 in short succession, at the same time as the ATR72 reported downwind for runway 35 and asked for a wind check. The tower informed him the wind as 300/15kts. The pilot reported turning base and was given the wind as 290/18kts and cleared to land. At this time it began to rain heavily and I was interested to see the landing. The pilot seemed to make a textbook landing and continued down the centerline of the runway ,slowing down, to a point apposite the terminal building (maybe 500 meters) when it seemed he applied the brakes and the plane turned 90 degrees left (as if the right hand brakes failed) colliding head on into the old tower building. This area which is concrete and set back from the runway, was a few years ago where the passengers would alight to be taken to the terminal by tram style busses.

Very interesting, thanks Samuijack. From the photos on manager.co.th you can see that the landing gear and tires on the left-rear of the aircraft is intact, so not a blowout or gear collapse.

Was reading a few articles on airline discussion forums. Seems losing nose wheel steering is fairly common, but the plane should be controllable via braking. Also it seems that losing brakes on one side of the aircraft would be difficult as there are apparently two hydraulic systems on larger aircraft- one for the inboard and out for the outboard braking systems. But of course something happened so I'm sure we'll find out sooner or later what the issue was.

[Stuart8]

As well as flaps and brakes, turbo-props also use reverse pitch on the props to decelerate rapidly once on the runway. It's possible here that the starboard props did not actually reverse pitch and when power was increased for engine braking, the forward thrust induced by the normal pitch starboard props counteracted the weaker reverse thrust from the port engine props, turning the plane off the runway.

I had this in one of my posts but after reading samuijack's excellent account I deleted it. It is clear the sudden veering off the runway occured toward the end of the landing roll. Any assymetric reverse would have occured just after touchdown. This looks like a braking problem where the pilot tried to stop the aircraft too quickly for the conditions while trying to avoid a back track.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Stuart8

[sabaijai]

However, it is a fact that Samui does not get Monsoons, as does Phuket. Phuket has a 6 month long, heavy rainy season. Samui has about 6 *WEEKS*. The monsoons are limited to the Phuket side, the Andaman Sea. See http://www.travelfish.org/weather_fish.php and note how much longer and heavier the rain is in Phuket than in Samui.

This storm on Samui today was very intense, very short, and very unusual.

Correction, the southwest monsoon affects the Andaman Sea, all of southern Thailand and the Gulf of Thailand, even into northeastern Thailand. Travelfish has it wrong if they claim otherwise.

Numerous Thai weather reports every day this time of year comment on, and map out, the path of the SW monsoon, which starts in the Indian Ocean and continues all the way to the Annamite Mountain chain.

As the Thai Meteorological Dept states in its current three-month forecast:

General Condition

In June, the low pressure trough will lie across northern and northeastern parts of Thailand in the first half of June and give rise to abundant rainfall over Thailand. After shifting northward to lie across southern China from the second half of June, rainfall amount and distribution over Thailand will until mid-July. From mid July to August, abundant rainfall will return when the low pressure trough move back to lie across northern, northeastern and central parts of Thailand and the southwest monsoon prominently prevail over Thailand and the Gulf of Thailand most of period.

http://www.tmd.go.th/programs%5Cuploads%5C...s_EN_090031.pdf

And the Dept's weekly forecast for Jul 7, 2009 - Aug 2, 2009:

The moderate southwest monsoon prevailing over the Andaman Sea, Thailand and the Gulf of Thailand strengthened since mid-week. In addition, the low pressure cell covered upper Vietnam and the low pressure trough lay across northern and upper northeastern parts of Thailand during weekend. These caused abundant rainfall over the Thailand almost the week especially in northern and northeastern parts.

Northern Part

http://www.tmd.go.th/en/climate.php?FileID...Time=2009-08-03

[Stuart8]

Very interesting, thanks Samuijack. From the photos on manager.co.th you can see that the landing gear and tires on the left-rear of the aircraft is intact, so not a blowout or gear collapse.

Was reading a few articles on airline discussion forums. Seems losing nose wheel steering is fairly common, but the plane should be controllable via braking. Also it seems that losing brakes on one side of the aircraft would be difficult as there are apparently two hydraulic systems on larger aircraft- one for the inboard and out for the outboard braking systems. But of course something happened so I'm sure we'll find out sooner or later what the issue was.

I am not familiar with the ATR72 systems but 'larger aircraft' have three hydraulic systems, not two. This accident would have nothing to do with the failure of a hydraulic system. It would have everything to do with poor contact between the right mainwheel tyre and the runway, or possibly both mainwheel tyres and the runway.

Aircraft performance calculations generally ignore reverse thrust and use braking efficiency only. Clearly a wet runway will reduce braking efficiency, by how much and on which tyre is the problem here.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Stuart8

[Baboonboy22]

A collection of photos from a friend of mine in Samui.. horrific I'm sure you'll all agree

[churchill]

list of injured passengers at Bangkok-Samui and Ban Don Inter Hospitals

List of injured passengers at Bangkok-Samui hospital

Linda Thongkorn, 28, crew member

Supanasa Namjit, 25, crew member

Mr Nicolas Havel, 39, Briton

Mr Panteli Pantelis, 39, Briton

Mrs Elodie Lacovangelo, 41, Swiss

Mrs Mirella Gastaldi, 39, Italian

Mr Thanawat Premrudee, 35, co-pilot

Miss Goosleng Joyce, 26, Briton

Miss Ballantye Claire, 38, Briton

List of injured passengers at Ban Don Inter Hospital

Mr Abreheam Gzaaf, 42, Dutch

Mr Lucar Gzaaf, 11, Dutch

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/30109...ok-Samui-and-Ba

-- The Nation 03/08/09

[RAZZELL]

A propeller plane ATR72 of Bangkok Airways veered off the runway shortly after touch down during heavy southwestern cross winds and heavy rain. It crossed a patch of grass and smashed with it's nose into the building of the airport fire fighters. Within seconds the fire fighters were laying a foam carpet over the plane, so there was no fire braking out.

I saw it happen from our terrace at about 14.13. After a few minutes the first emergency cars of the airport and a little bit later some ambulances from various hospitals arrived on the scene. I am sure there are quite many injuries since the plane was still quite fast when it hit the building.

Carlos

Looks like SKY have knicked your photo

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-New...oh_Samui_Island

I suggest giving them a call

RAZZ

Edited August 4, 2009 by RAZZELL

[Crash999]

I am not familiar with the ATR72 systems but larger aircraft have three hydraulic systems, not two. This accident would have nothing to do with the failure of a hydraulic system. It would have everything to do with poor contact between the right mainwheel tyre and the runway, or possibly both mainwheel tyres.

Aircraft performance calculations generally ignore reverse thrust and use braking efficiency only. Clearly a wet runway will reduce braking efficiency, by how much and on which tyre is the problem here.

I was going by the Canadair Regionaljet's system. Ok I found info on the ATR72's braking system:

The four main gear wheels are equipped with multidisc carbon brakes which are each operated by a set of hydraulically powered pistons. Normal braking is controlled by brake pedals which are part of the rudder pedals and permit the use of differential braking to assist with steering. The aircraft is fitted with an antiskid system which operates on all four main wheels at speeds above 10 kt. The system measures each wheel speed and moderates the pilot commanded brake pressure to obtain maximum stopping performance without skidding. The ATR 72 is not equipped with an autobrake system but, maximum brakingis possible without restriction down to a stop, regardless of runway condition, provided that antiskid is operative.

Seems like the anti-skid system should have kept the plane in a straight line if it was functioning correctly.

[dude007]

Nice work Carlos.

Carlos tres (Carlos III) is an excellent cognac in Spain, but Carlos Primeros is an excellent reporter in Thailand!

ThaiVisa, you are the best website in Thailand...

[khunmarc]

have just heard there has been some sort of incident at Samui airport. Plane off the runway or something.

anyone nearby see or heard anything ?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...ArqZVgD99S385G1

[thaibreaker]

I am amazed by the skills of some people in this thread, thanks for sharing with us.

I want to ask one question though:

Could it have been that the pilot, when he realized this would eventually be an accident, was at the last seconds aming for the unmanned control tower head on, to avoid a fire?

If the wings would hit, it might have been a fire, wouldn`t it? With perhaps more casualties?

Could it actually be that the pilot was steering the plane head on to save the situation?

As we know there were much fuel left for a return to Krabi.

Just a thought, just speculations, but maybe the pilot should be considered a hero after all.

[cdnvic]

REALLY?! try this on

SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATR_72-500#AT...8210A.2F212A.29

If you bother to do a little research you'd find the truth is a lot less gloomier than your overblown rhetoric. Follow your own links and do some reading.

[animatic]

I am amazed by the skills of some people in this thread, thanks for sharing with us.

I want to ask one question though:

Could it have been that the pilot, when he realized this would eventually be an accident, was at the last seconds aming for the unmanned control tower head on, to avoid a fire?

If the wings would hit, it might have been a fire, wouldn`t it? With perhaps more casualties?

Could it actually be that the pilot was steering the plane head on to save the situation?

As we know there were much fuel left for a return to Krabi.

Just a thought, just speculations, but maybe the pilot should be considered a hero after all.

Seems unlikely, everything behind is pretty lighty wooded, more tall brush.

And I doubt

A ) he had that much control at

the pretty high rate of speed at that point.

What never has been stated was this a landing from sea side

or the less typical over Chaweng landing.

If they came from over Chaweng then it is much less of a turn

from the sea the plane has lurched quiet a bit around,

but that could have been mass and momentum hitting a cement reinforced block house.

Seeing the wreckage I am surprised the Co-pilot made it.

Thank god it turned that direction because the other side...ooooohhh,

about the same distance is 2 passenger waiting terminals typically filled.

It would have plowed through them like a hot knife in butter before hitting anything substantial.

BUT would have ripped the piss out of the wings and tanks...

I am sure the pilot was doing what he could to save things,

He is a hero for efforts even if inefectual...

Edited August 4, 2009 by animatic

[phayao]

Bangkok Airways plane skids out of runway at Samui Airport

KOH SAMUI: -- A Bangkok Airways plane caught fire Tuesday afternoon after it skidded out of and crashed into the Control Tower building while landing at its Samui Airport Tuesday afternoon.

The accident happened at 2:30 pm.

The flight arrived from Krabi.

Several passengers were injured.

-- The Nation 2009-08-04

I've just got a picture of the accident.

Pilot confirmed dead, 40 injured.

[sassienie]

A Bangkok Airways plane skidded off the runway and crashed at Samui airport, resulting in at least one death and 41 injured.

Flight PG 266 crashed on arriving from Krabi province on a rainy and windy afternoon on Tuesday.

The pilot, Chartchai Pansuwan, was killed in the accident.

The twin engine propeller driven ATR72 plane swerved off the runway and crashed into an old control tower now being used as a parking space for fire engines.

Sixty-eight passengers and four cabin crew boarded the plane.

Thai Airways International had cancelled its TG 287 and TG 288 flights to Samui in Surat Thani following the accident.

(Courtesy of Bangkok Post)

[Heng]

Wow, this one strikes a nerve. Chills when I heard it. We fly this route, and likely this very plane, 6-7 times a year on average. Have to admit that I am a bit concerned at times that their pilots are a bit youngish (apparently many are US inter-Thais... as they even mimick a Texas drawl when they are having fun) and seem to cowboy around a bit (particularly doing that 'I don't have to come to a complete stop before starting my takeoff run' thing), but apparently this wasn't the issue in this case.

6 or 7 times a year and you've not had an accident yet? Just think how many others have flown the route and not had accidents either.

By the way when you are cleared to takeoff you enter the runway 'stand up' the throttles, check the power comes up on both engines and the t's and p's (temperatures and pressures) are good and off you go. Stopping only means you have to get going again. Nothing unsafe about a rolling takeoff.

Not worried about accidents, will continue to holiday there. Just chilling to have your regular plane have an incident.

Not worried about the safety about a rolling takeoff with experience either, especially out of a busy airport where I'm happy to get out of the intersection of tons of steel and aluminum, but when youngsters do it so that they seem more experienced, it's a concern. Especially when there's no need 'hurry' up to clear the runway at an airport like Trat, Samui, or Krabi. When you have time, a hold and roll is time to eyeball your checks again.

[limbos]

As has been pointed in this thread, the airport supposedly doesn't refuel, but 5 of these trucks with jet fuel where waiting outside the airport after the accident happened.

[OldgitTom]

I echo BkkJames. Pressure on pilots must be great. In dodgy conditions, extra fuel is used to divert or 'go round again & have another try'. Airlines are in cut-throat competition. Extra fuel may be the differance b/ween profit & loss. Pilots who do not land first try - do they get a black mark, or lose a fuel economy bonus? If you want to see how many aircraft land in severe weather, Google YouTube, 'cross-wind landings'. It's frightening.

Most of the time, most pilots get away with it, but it is still dangerous. As far as I know, the rule is that air traffic control informs pilots of local landing conditions, then it is up to the pilot to decide whether to land or not. Cop-out! ATC should know if landing conditions are dangerous or not. THEY should decide whether to close down an airfield.

I suspect airfield operators don't want to carry the decision can. I also suspect the insurance companies find it cheaper to lay the blame on 'pilot error' when an accident occurs. WRONG: the first priority should be passenger safety. This is not a Thai problem, it's global.

You get what you pay for. Cheapo airlines must trim their budgets somewhere. If you save $100 & end up dead, don't blame the pilot. Remember the BA plane that recently landed short at Heathrow, or the similar incident at Schipol?

My deep sympathy goes to the family of this dead pilot. He was very experienced. I only hope he doesn't get unfairly condemned. OldgitTom

[Nana]

In the afternoon 6th of march earlier this year, me and a friend landed with Bangkok air at U-Tapao airport coming up from Phuket. After the touchdown the plane veered heavily left and right 4 or 5 times before the pilot gained control again.

My first thought was that the plane was going to flip over. After the plane came to a halt, the cabin was dead quiet.

And there was no wind what so ever. I am not sure if it's the same type of plane. I'll let the experts deside.