Retiree Account Dipped Below 800,000. Now Forced To Leave.

[lopburi3]

The requirement is 800k in bank account two months for first extension of stay and three month thereafter (immediately prior to day you apply).

The income requirement is 65k per month (not $1800) and must be shown on Embassy paper. I would get within the week but new policy may allow use of same paper for up to three years (at least at some locations they are saying that).

If you use combined the total must be 800k per year and there is no seasoning requirement. There is an island 'nation' that does not seem able to follow rules however.

1. You must show passbook for bank account - and a bank letter of account balance (should be day or application or at least within the week) - if not same day you may be required to present an ATM slip from that day to confirm same balance. if you use only Embassy letter account book will probably not be asked for.

2. Pay/income are normally not required but you should have something to back up the Embassy letter if asked (some have been asked). An annual statement or such should be good.

3. Obtain Embassy paper just before you do the extension - there is no set time that anyone is aware of but best to be current.

4. Bank letter needs to be last minute - day before if not same day unless impossible.

5. Normal time frame is 30 days before expiration until expiration. Early is better as you have time to fix anything. If you have travel scheduled and show tickets they will often let you do earlier.

Edited August 9, 2009 by lopburi3

[allane]

If I am understanding what the OP said, it raises a couple of questions in my mind, pertaining to those retirees who are using the "bank account only option":

1. Does anyone know of anyone who has been required to leave, because of this change in interpretation of the rules regarding the length of the required "seasoning period" for the "top-up money", i.e. the money that is brought to Thailand to restore the visa holder's bank account to 800,000 baht. ?

2. If people are being told to leave while they still have, say, 700,000 baht in their bank account, are they able to send this money out of Thailand before their required departure date ?

3. Or, in the alternative, are they being given a reasonable time to top up their bank account ? I suppose "reasonable" here depends on the size of the deficiency.

As a matter of general policy, I don't want to live in (or even visit) a country where I am not wanted.

[Jingthing]

Does this mean it will be "3MONTHS" for subsequent renewals

First extension using 800K in the bank-- 2 months seasoning

Subsequent extensions using 800K in the bank-- 3 months seasoning

Samui requiring money seasoning for people using the COMBO method (embassy letter PLUS bank account) is a deviation, the rule is NO money seasoning if using the combo method

Enforcement variations have occurred, as stated before Pattaya for some years has been public in their policy that NO money seasoning was required for subsequent extensions, but as of 1 August, they are now enforcing based on the national rule (3 months)

I would not suggest telling porkies to your embassy to get a letter (especially Americans as immigration knows of their liberal policy and has the right to require further documentation). I am sure if the OP had a pension, he would already have been using embassy letters as another poster suggested ... Many of us have no pensions (yet anyway), especially the younger retirees. So we use the 800K in the bank method which requires money seasoning. Cheers.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Jingthing

[lopburi3]

As a matter of general policy, I don't want to live in (or even visit) a country where I am not wanted.

1. There is no interpretation - the rule is set out in official document. And yes, the poster is being required to leave. But he can come back with a visa exempt entry, a tourist visa, a new non immigrant O visa.

2. Thai ATM cards can be used anywhere. But he can come back the same day - he is not being banned from entry.

3. The requirement is 3 months without going below - if you want to extend again you must meet that requirement again. It will be the same paperwork so nothing lost except a few month having to wait and using a visa entry to cover that time.

Edited August 9, 2009 by lopburi3

[dutch]

Don't retire (here) without a retirement PLAN.

A plan should be

*A load of money and I mean a big load

or

*A regular retirement income (state pensions and so on) and an healthinsurance cover.

or

*a regular retirement income and a big sum of money (to cover health issues).

The regular income should cover at least 800.000 baht a year.

Without above,I would not really feel safe to retire in Thailand.

Sorry,but that is reality

[Jingthing]

Dutch, if you own your home here, you don't need that much. It really depends on your PERSONAL spending patterns. I don't accept there is a specific amount you will need, we are all different.

That said, for retired people, money is very important, OK, along with health the most important thing, as you have stopped working.

The OP didn't say he didn't have money. He said he experienced a technical glitch of dipping below the 800K during the seasoning period. It can easily happen. It is very hard to predict the future of your expenses for a three month period if a big emergency expense comes up.

BTW, I strongly think the 3 month seasoning is SILLY for long term stayers. In fact, I believe it REDUCES the amount of money such retirees SPEND in Thailand. Spending money in Thailand is the reason we are tolerated here, so this rule is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE. Why is this? Think about the psychology. If you are topping up SO EARLY you estimate your expenses for that 3 month period, being careful to have enough so that you won't dip under 800K. However, you know 3 months is a long time and surprise expenses can pop up anytime. So during that time, you are unusually THRIFTY, spending LESS money than you normally would if you were not under the watchful eyes of Thai immigration.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Jingthing

[jfchandler]

Jing, as a fellow American, I agree with your advice below, of course. Better to be safe than sorry, if you can manage it.

However, I can't say that I recall seeing/reading any recurring accounts of Americans being singled out to show extra proof (U.S. bank or pension statements, etc.) of their retirement income at Thai immigration - beyond the normal Embassy letter.

My understanding is yes, that can happen occasionally, at the whims of Immigration. But that in general, a valid U.S. Embassy letter would be accepted as sufficient proof of monthly income.

If that's not the general situation, someone should advise on that....

PS - As a side issue, I remember this question being posed elsewhere here, but not clearly answered as far as I could see.

If you're getting a U.S. Embassy letter and listing/reporting your monthly income in U.S. $, what exchange rate should you (the applicant) use to know you're meeting the 65,000 baht requirement. Or more to the point, what exchange rate will Thai immigration use in making THEIR calculation???

I would not suggest telling porkies to your embassy to get a letter (especially Americans as immigration knows of their liberal policy and has the right to require further documentation).

[jfchandler]

Regarding the question posed above about some adjoining country cities getting "burned out" for issuance of tourist visas to Thailand...

I believe what the poster was referring to was the practice that some Thai consulates in adjoining countries have sometimes employed.... to put red stamps in the passports of frequent tourist visa applicants to their office saying... no more will be issued to that individual at that consulate.... or.... this one is the last one you will be issued here.

That was causing a lot of consternation among the folks who were staying in Thailand on repeat tourist visas... because suddenly the city/consulate they had been repeatedly going to was saying ... no more. If you got one of those red stamps, supposedly, it meant you could no longer go to that particular Thai consulate for further tourist visas.

I've never used tourist visas for my stay here. So I haven't followed that issue particularly closely. So I can't advise on what the status of that issue is now with the different Thai consulates in adjoining countries.

[Jingthing]

Where is the OP? No comment on all these comments?

[gdhm]

Don't retire (here) without a retirement PLAN.

A plan should be

*A load of money and I mean a big load

or

*A regular retirement income (state pensions and so on) and an healthinsurance cover.

or

*a regular retirement income and a big sum of money (to cover health issues).

The regular income should cover at least 800.000 baht a year.

Without above,I would not really feel safe to retire in Thailand.

Sorry,but that is reality

Hi Dutch

What is "safe" or "reality" is surely subjective and each has different circumstances. A poor man in the West may be comfortably well off here even if not meeting your suggested minimums.

By your definition, my reality is that I am not safe having only a regular income of 600,000 Baht per annum (after tax) (with current GBP-Baht Exchange rates) and needed to cover Thai wife and stepson. To be fair my income will increase in 8 years time when my UK State Pension is due to kick in.

Tell you what though Dutch. Try living on that in the UK. Here I can easily and with a much higher standard of living.

We live here in our fully paid for own home and have few costs. We have no loans, no mortgage and no Visa card debts and neither of us work . How many in the West can say that BUT many would consider themselves richer or better off than us. Are many of them, in reality??

few living in the West are as financially secure as the the levels you suggest all retires should have for living here in Thailand

I admit without Health insurance which would be unavailable to me (and too costly) that I worry about an unexpected Health issue, but the UK NHS is not a great as it used to be.

e.g I saw a report today of those diagnosed with Prostate cancer

In the US 100% are alive 5 years later

In Canada 85% are alive 5 years later

In the UK only 77% are alive 5 years later.

ADDITIONALLY if one must find funds for medical treatment I think few would argue it is cheaper in Thailand than many other countries (especially leading Western countries).

JMHO

Regards, Dave

[piewarmer]

I am thinking about the retirement extention, Does anyone have experience with getting the bank letter

from a branch far away. I live in Chiang Mai but my branch is in Phuket.

This may or may not be a problem...Maybe it would be wise to move the account.

[dutch]

Hi Dutch

What is "safe" or "reality" is surely subjective and each has different circumstances. A poor man in the West may be comfortably well off here even if not meeting your suggested minimums.

By your definition, my reality is that I am not safe having only a regular income of 600,000 Baht per annum (after tax) (with current GBP-Baht Exchange rates) and needed to cover Thai wife and stepson. To be fair my income will increase in 8 years time when my UK State Pension is due to kick in.

Tell you what though Dutch. Try living on that in the UK. Here I can easily and with a much higher standard of living.

We live here in our fully paid for own home and have few costs. We have no loans, no mortgage and no Visa card debts and neither of us work . How many in the West can say that BUT many would consider themselves richer or better off than us. Are many of them, in reality??

few living in the West are as financially secure as the the levels you suggest all retires should have for living here in Thailand

I admit without Health insurance which would be unavailable to me (and too costly) that I worry about an unexpected Health issue, but the UK NHS is not a great as it used to be.

e.g I saw a report today of those diagnosed with Prostate cancer

In the US 100% are alive 5 years later

In Canada 85% are alive 5 years later

In the UK only 77% are alive 5 years later.

ADDITIONALLY if one must find funds for medical treatment I think few would argue it is cheaper in Thailand than many other countries (especially leading Western countries).

JMHO

Regards, Dave

Hi Dave,

My simple point is that if....for whatever reason your money is not enough,they will send you home.

Most common reason (as we grow old and need health care) is health costs and no insurance.

I know people around me who are left with no bank account balance because of health costs.

If.........the euro will exchange for less baht or.......the monthly amount (by immigration law)will be increased,they are lost !!

[sassienie]

The imposed Immigration department laws for retirement in Thailand is as follows:

1. Have to be a minimum age of 50 years.

2. 800000 baht invested with a Thai bank in baht for a period of 2 months on inception then 3 months prior to visa application.

3. A pension income of 65000 baht per month.

4. A combination of funds invested with a Thai bank and pension income totalling to an amount of 800000 baht.

There is no exceptions to these rules under any circumstances, except for those who have obtained permanent visas.

Edited August 9, 2009 by sassienie

[Arkady]

This thread should be compulsory reading for all the naysayers who say they can't see any benefits from applying for permanent residence when they have the chance.

[sassienie]

Another option that may be available for the OP, is to apply for a non (o) immigrant visa based on marriage to a Thai wife (that is if he is married to a Thai of course).

This only requires a minimum of 400000 baht per annum invested with a Thai bank.

Edited August 9, 2009 by sassienie

[Jingthing]

This thread should be compulsory reading for all the naysayers who say they can't see any benefits from applying for permanent residence when they have the chance.

There is NO PATH towards permanent residence for those who start their stay in Thailand on retirement extensions. None. Therefore, I find your suggestion rather irrelevant to the class of people we are talking about. On retirement extensions, the first year, the thirtieth year, you have the same TEMPORARY status. Very Buddhist really ...

There is no exceptions to these rules under any circumstances, except for those who have obtained permanent visas.

Correction. There have indeed been many reports (including mine) of exceptions to the money seasoning rules for subsequent extensions; in some cases these were a grace period kind of thing, at Pattaya, it was POLICY. However, they are back to enforcing the national rules.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Jingthing

[samran]

This thread should be compulsory reading for all the naysayers who say they can't see any benefits from applying for permanent residence when they have the chance.

the naysayers will tell you that as retiree's, they aren't eligble for PR.

The ones I really feel sorry for are the people married here with families, who really should be given fast track to PR and work rights so long as it can be shown it isn't a sham relationship.

[lopburi3]

The imposed Immigration department laws for retirement in Thailand is as follows:

1. Have to be a minimum age of 50 years.

2. 800000 baht invested with a Thai bank in baht for a period of 2 months on inception then 3 months prior to visa application.

3. A pension income of 65000 baht per month.

4. A combination of funds invested with a Thai bank and pension income totalling to an amount of 800000 baht.

There is no exceptions to these rules under any circumstances, except for those who have obtained permanent visas.

2. There is no investment - you need a savings account with 800k for a period of two month for first extension of stay and three months for further extensions of stay if using that method.

3. The word used in current regulations seems to be income - it does not have to be a formal penson plan payment.

There are exceptions and they are listed in the regulations (grandfathered at lower financial levels).

[fishhooks]

piewarmer:

The "letter" has to come from the branch where your account is held.

Been there, done that.

Although on one lucky occasion when I was in Korat and my account was in Chaiyaphum, the Chaiyaphum Bank Manager who lived in Korat some of the time, delivered the required letter to me in Korat.

Howz that for service? SCB

[spidermike007]

What these government clowns do not get is that every time they come up with another one of their harebrained "anti- fareng campaigns" they are

sabotaging the local economy. I know many people who have been here for many years, and they are starting to leave. They are traveling, and

researching alternatives to Thailand. These are people who on average, spend about $30,000 per year here (1,000,000 baht). How does that

compare to what the average Thai spends per year? Is there no regard for this contribution? I believe there are way to regulate foreigners, and

still remain respectful to them, and allow them to maintain their dignity. In Thailand it amazes me how foreigners are made to feel like 2nd class

citizens. We are not able to do anything as well as Thais, we are not as intelligent, creative, ingenious, industrious, honest, or capable as Thais.

We have not interest in building this country, nor contributing to it, and therefore we should be watched, and regulated. The Thai people cannot

seem to avoid shooting themselves in the foot, at every opportunity. Their country needs so much help at this point. Between the collapse of

the tourism industry, the appreciation of the baht, the world economy, their political problems and perceived instability, and a host of other

problems, you would think this might be the time to show more flexibility, and ease visa requirement, and maybe lower the bar for retirement

visas. While most of their neighbors are encouraging foreigners to invest, to buy land, homes, building for businesses, and offering reasonable

and flexible visa policies, what is Thailand doing? Marching vociferously in the other direction. They are digging the grave of their long term

financial well being. And as farengs, it is no fault of ours. I had a great deal of hope in Abhisit, hoping he was going to usher in a new era of

Thai politics, and progressive policy. I was sure naive about that one.

8 Aug 2009

Read Topic

[Jingthing]

Another exception, Pattaya is still allowing a week or two fudge period for the money seasoning requirement (source: Pattaya Today via immigration spokesperson).

[lopburi3]

piewarmer:

The "letter" has to come from the branch where your account is held.

Been there, done that.

Although on one lucky occasion when I was in Korat and my account was in Chaiyaphum, the Chaiyaphum Bank Manager who lived in Korat some of the time, delivered the required letter to me in Korat.

Howz that for service? SCB

The letter can also come from the head office - so any branch can obtain that for you. And I have done so with Bangkok Bank.

[Jingthing]

The letter can also come from the head office - so any branch can obtain that for you. And I have done so with Bangkok Bank.

This varies from bank to bank. Anyone with this concern needs to visit their local bank and ask them directly. There have been reports of people needing to travel long distances to get this letter. The other issue with this is that immigration needs the bank letter to be fresh. How fresh is subjective from the same day to no longer than a week.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Jingthing

[greenway]

Do you have any kind of pension income that your Embassy could write a letter confirming? That would removed the 3 month requirement and you would not have to leave. All you need is the total to be 800k for the year. If you mean you can no longer meet the requirements for extension of stay you would have to use visa entry and in the local area that would likely only be single entry non immigrant O for a 90 day stay or tourist visas for 60 day stays. Border crossing is only 15 days now. The closest place to be sure of getting a multi entry non immigrant O visa valid for a year of 90 day visits would probably be Perth.

If you haver the runds but just not seasoned long enough; before your current permitted to stay expires you need to leave and obtain a new visa to start again. I would get a single entry non immigrant O visa from a Thai Consulate in a nearby country. That will give you a 90 day entry and during the last 30 days you would make your normal yearly extension of stay. You will not have an extension to return to so you will not need a re-entry permit. Your visa ended six years ago so you do not have a multl entry visa.

Hello Lopburi,

I can cope with the demand 800,000 in the bank, OR a monthly income of baht 65,000, OR a combination of both.

Does the Embassy in Vientiane, as far as you know, ask for an income statement from my Embassy when I ask for an Non Immigrant O?

Or do they give without asking for an income proof a single entree Non Immigrant O for a period 3 month?

I am from the Netherlands and are here in Thailand on a 2 entree Tourist visa from Vientiane.

Thanks in advance

[lopburi3]

I will guess you mean being over age 50 and using the reason you wish to retire? Single entry I expect would be issued on the basis of your age alone. But don't recall any recent posts.

[sassienie]

The imposed Immigration department laws for retirement in Thailand is as follows:

1. Have to be a minimum age of 50 years.

2. 800000 baht invested with a Thai bank in baht for a period of 2 months on inception then 3 months prior to visa application.

3. A pension income of 65000 baht per month.

4. A combination of funds invested with a Thai bank and pension income totalling to an amount of 800000 baht.

There is no exceptions to these rules under any circumstances, except for those who have obtained permanent visas.

2. There is no investment - you need a savings account with 800k for a period of two month for first extension of stay and three months for further extensions of stay if using that method.

3. The word used in current regulations seems to be income - it does not have to be a formal penson plan payment.

There are exceptions and they are listed in the regulations (grandfathered at lower financial levels).

Any funds placed into a bank for any period of time, is an investment.

But however which way you wish to word it, doesn`t alter the facts about the imposed Immigration requirements and rules as I have already explained.

[tracer0]

Hi,

These are some pretty basic questions. I wish the search engine on Thaivisa worked better, I wouldn't have to bother you with them.

I have had a retirement non-immigrant "O-A" visa for almost 6 years, and have never left Thailand during that time. Due to health problems that are made worse by the rigors of travel, I avoid it. I had an emergency expenditure during the last 3 months which compromised my bank balance, which dipped below 800K baht. Immigration told me, "You gotta go!" BTW - The same happened last year (and was even worse, they photocopied all my bank books, and poured over the statements, then smiled at me, and renewed my visa.

Thanks again - Buzzer

Buzzer

Possible option here? Do you have an income from retirement funds in your home country? If so, might be possible for you to use the "income plus baht in the bank" option, which has to total up to baht 800,000.

The rule is baht 800,000 in the bank, OR a monthly income of baht 65,000, OR a combination of both.

If, for example, you have baht 400,000 in the bank and can show a monthly income of baht 32,500 via an affidavit from your embassy, that should work.

Mac

Does the Embassy affidavit have to be current for each declaration? In other words do you need a new Embassy letter every year you apply for a visa extension?

\

Yes, has to be done every year.

However there also seem to be ways to get your money added in but it costs money. No idea how good they work as

I never used them. You likely should ask some expats where you live... However I have 2 daughters in University and it cleaned out my 800000 baht as one had to goto China for learning better chinese and ended up in a week to get a 30000 baht bill for appendix removal...

I put the money back in ofcourse but its a painful thing to have it sitting there doing nothing so I likely will after my next visum extension use it again to pay their study.

[InterestedObserver]

Where is the OP? No comment on all these comments?

The OP is busy packing to return to America. Read some of his other posts.

[Jingthing]

Where is the OP? No comment on all these comments?

The OP is busy packing to return to America. Read some of his other posts.

OK fine, so I guess that makes this thread more or a free for all on the retirement extension topic rather than the specifics of the OP's previously stated concerns.

[Jingthing]

Any funds placed into a bank for any period of time, is an investment.

I disagree. Its not an investment. The money is not frozen. You can top up 3 months early, spend what you like as long as you don't go under 800K, then top up again the day before your immigration meeting. After that day, you can drain the account. Hardly an investment.