Merchant Of Death To Learn Fate Today

[animatic]

'Surface to air missiles' can take down passenger planes.

I don't care what anybody says, I do NOT want some mercenary bastards

selling these things on the free market to Al queda and their friends.

That is an interesting dilemma. US and European governments have been and are doing exactly what Victor has done, selling arms to various guerilla groups and governments. For more, the West has by force installed right-wing brutal dictators in Southern America, in Iraq AND in Iran. The hel_l with democracy and the will of the people. The biggest weapons dealers are USA and then EU on this planet. USA has de facto MERCENARY army. This is classic case of "do as we say, not as we do".

Even Osama is seen as a freedom fighter among some Muslims. He wants US troops out of Saudi-Arabia. There Americans support very brutal "government" which uses religion and modern American weapons (like Apache helicopters) to put down everybody daring to question their power. Beheadings and stoning to death as punishment methods. Even Saddam Hussein was not that hard against Iraqis. How is that in any way fair and decent thing to do?

Yes is certainly IS a dilemma...

and I don't approve of ANY of these arms transactions as such.

The CIA has done all sorts of harm out there, it has done some good too.

But the 'residual byproducts' often come back to haunt all of us.

Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20.

Osama and Taliban being classic examples.

Regardless of the governmental stupidities this guy Bout shouldn't be in this business.

Drinking Grape juice

Wife's watching Acadmy Fantasia

It is getting on to bedtime

As happens every night

Soupe de poulet a aile et poivre is good for the system

Keeps bright eyed and alert

I don't watch the whites of Vanna's eyes.

there is greater literature to peruse.

Infinite Jest is tonights tome dejour

As the war went so did most of our fathers,

and father's inlaw mine was french.

You must be confusing me with someone else.

Since you don't mention WHAT you call trash, no response is possible.

[Grey11]

For all you people who hate the U.S. so much. you probably aren't old enough to remember, but if the U.S. hadn't entered World War 2 when they did, you'd all be speaking German. I'm old enough to remember, I was there.

Is all this anti-American bullshit you're spreading in any way related to the original post.....I don't think so,

Without French involvement in the American independence war, you would be still be under British Crown. Well, that probably would have been an improvement for you anyway . Most Americans cannot even pinpoint London on a map nowadays.

Most Americans could pinpoint London on a map. But I doubt the 40% of Americans that are illegally in the country. They know little, nor care to know anything about the Western world. And, as for the others who "cannot even pinpoint London on a map nowadays" I think it shows just how for down the city and the nation has fallen rather than the ignorance of Americans. With all its colonies gone, England, has become a third rate power and an economic disaster because of its millions of non-English immigrants. The same has contributed greatly to bringing the U.S. down to its knees economically.

If London ever was the center of the world, it certainly is not now.

[henryalleman]

Funny, every time someone gets caught trafficking drugs here, its "hang 'em high" time on TV. Next time I'm gonna defend the guy (or woman) with the "yeah, but he's only carrying a product across a border - what happens after he delivers the heroin isn't up to him, and besides Thai politicians are involved in the drug trade so that makes him innocent of any crime" line. The guy was selling weapons to the highest bidder, no matter who it was. <deleted> him. Anyway, this wasn't a trial. It was an extradition hearing. Thailand better hope it doesn't need a favor any time soon. This will not be forgotten.

And I guess I'm naive, I never knew so much petty jealousy of the US existed here. A lot of repressed anger coming out it seems. I guess a few people miss their shrinks back home

And I guess I'm naive, I never knew so much petty jealousy of the US existed here. A lot of repressed anger coming out it seems. I guess a few people miss their shrinks back home

And yes I think that you are a litle bit naive to believe that the US is still popular, They ruined all the good will that people had for them. And I realy like to know what is their to be jealous off. Is it their educational system, health care, social and welfare system? Or is it the religious fanatism and hypocrisie that I should be jealous off? Please inform me

[A_Traveller]

And who supported Bin laden

The US did not support him, though ironically they both shared at that time a similar goal, the expulsion of the Soviets from Afghanistan. The key difference was that he saw a Muslim fundamentalist state replacing them.

He, bin Laden was never on US payroll, if only for the simple reason that he would have never accepted money or material from them, that was an anathema to his activities, and he didn't need them. He was after all trying to instil suitable religiosity and fervour in the ruling house of Saudi who were fervent backers of his [and others] activities at that time.

It is said that he offered fighters to the the Saudi royal family to both protect the kingdom and expel Iraq from Kuwait but the King decided to accept the offer of the collation.

Regards

PS This has remarkably little to do with the subject.

[TAWP]

For all you people who hate the U.S. so much. you probably aren't old enough to remember, but if the U.S. hadn't entered World War 2 when they did, you'd all be speaking German. I'm old enough to remember, I was there.

Is all this anti-American bullshit you're spreading in any way related to the original post.....I don't think so,

Without French involvement in the American independence war, you would be still be under British Crown. Well, that probably would have been an improvement for you anyway . Most Americans cannot even pinpoint London on a map nowadays.

Most Americans could pinpoint London on a map. But I doubt the 40% of Americans that are illegally in the country. They know little, nor care to know anything about the Western world. And, as for the others who "cannot even pinpoint London on a map nowadays" I think it shows just how for down the city and the nation has fallen rather than the ignorance of Americans. With all its colonies gone, England, has become a third rate power and an economic disaster because of its millions of non-English immigrants. The same has contributed greatly to bringing the U.S. down to its knees economically.

If London ever was the center of the world, it certainly is not now.

Your off-topic xenophobia is cute, but during Jay-walking (Tonight Show, Jay Leno) I don't see many illegals...

[henryalleman]

Of course Thailand has so many gangster , illegal activities within its own borders. Usually by those with Political or economic power. Bout maybe can be used to front an operation.

PS All the Anti American Jerks on here. They just like to see these sort of court decisions , Simply because of the Failure to uphold a US extradition application, . Why we surprised , Thai Courts are the nearest thing to gambling there is. (Thai Law can never be sure to be upheld)

In my country we have a saying

Knowing you are right is not meaning you are getting right in court.

This is so for every courtcase in the world. Like it or not. You denigrating remarks about the Thai court I regarded it as an regretable juvenal remark.

[henryalleman]

I hope he manages to fight the charges and is set free.

Given politics however, who knows how the court case will go.

It seems if any other country in the world wanted to extradite this arms dealer except the U.S. the Europeans would be in favor of him being extradited. Many posts on here are just anti-U.S. That's what it comes down to.

If Bout was arrested in the EU it would be impossible to extradite him, simpley because the EU jurisdical system don't allow extraditions to countries where he risk capital punishment.

[edh]

Relax, get a life of worries of other things...

'Surface to air missiles' can take down passenger planes.

I don't care what anybody says, I do NOT want some mercenary bastards

selling these things on the free market to Al queda and their friends.

That is an interesting dilemma. US and European governments have been and are doing exactly what Victor has done, selling arms to various guerilla groups and governments. For more, the West has by force installed right-wing brutal dictators in Southern America, in Iraq AND in Iran. The hel_l with democracy and the will of the people. The biggest weapons dealers are USA and then EU on this planet. USA has de facto MERCENARY army. This is classic case of "do as we say, not as we do".

Even Osama is seen as a freedom fighter among some Muslims. He wants US troops out of Saudi-Arabia. There Americans support very brutal "government" which uses religion and modern American weapons (like Apache helicopters) to put down everybody daring to question their power. Beheadings and stoning to death as punishment methods. Even Saddam Hussein was not that hard against Iraqis. How is that in any way fair and decent thing to do?

Yes is certainly IS a dilemma...

and I don't approve of ANY of these arms transactions as such.

The CIA has done all sorts of harm out there, it has done some good too.

But the 'residual byproducts' often come back to haunt all of us.

Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20.

Osama and Taliban being classic examples.

Regardless of the governmental stupidities this guy Bout shouldn't be in this business.

Drinking Grape juice

Wife's watching Acadmy Fantasia

It is getting on to bedtime

As happens every night

Soupe de poulet a aile et poivre is good for the system

Keeps bright eyed and alert

I don't watch the whites of Vanna's eyes.

there is greater literature to peruse.

Infinite Jest is tonights tome dejour

As the war went so did most of our fathers,

and father's inlaw mine was french.

You must be confusing me with someone else.

Since you don't mention WHAT you call trash, no response is possible.

[A_Traveller]

^^ Incorrect. Article 13 of the aforementioned US EU MLAT states

Where the offence for which extradition is sought is punishable by death under the laws in the requesting State and not punishable by death under the laws in the requested State, the requested State may grant extradition on the condition that the death penalty shall not be imposed on the person sought, or if for procedural reasons such condition cannot be complied with by the requesting State, on condition that the death penalty if imposed shall not be carried out. If the requesting State accepts extradition subject to conditions pursuant to this Article, it shall comply with the conditions. If the requesting State does not accept the conditions, the request for extradition may be denied.

Regards

Edit /format & add emphasis //

Edited August 11, 2009 by A_Traveller

[jrincon17]

Funny, every time someone gets caught trafficking drugs here, its "hang 'em high" time on TV. Next time I'm gonna defend the guy (or woman) with the "yeah, but he's only carrying a product across a border - what happens after he delivers the heroin isn't up to him, and besides Thai politicians are involved in the drug trade so that makes him innocent of any crime" line. The guy was selling weapons to the highest bidder, no matter who it was. <deleted> him. Anyway, this wasn't a trial. It was an extradition hearing. Thailand better hope it doesn't need a favor any time soon. This will not be forgotten.

And I guess I'm naive, I never knew so much petty jealousy of the US existed here. A lot of repressed anger coming out it seems. I guess a few people miss their shrinks back home

That sounds like typical American sour grapes because the USA didn't get thier own way. Good on you Thailand for standing up to the worlds dictator. I am sure now there are a lot of people in the USA who will now be proclaiming Thailand as a terrorist state because they lost and will be wanting to rally the forces to get even. Don't worry the rest of the world will be with you not the USA

Stupid!

[tropo]

Congratulations to all the "anti-American" posters on this board. You should all be diplomats from your respective home countries.

Do you REALLY think all the facts have been disclosed in this case ? Since you don't know what the hel_l you're talking about why don't you keep your phuckin mouth shut till you DO know the facts, and can make a fair judgement. They ought to call you "robin", you're all mouth and ass.

For all you people who hate the U.S. so much. you probably aren't old enough to remember, but if the U.S. hadn't entered World War 2 when they did, you'd all be speaking German. I'm old enough to remember, I was there.

Is all this anti-American bullshit you're spreading in any way related to the original post.....I don't think so,

Stop waving your little flag around buddy.

We are not anti-American. We just don't like how the Americans meddle in affairs all around the world and use their clout to do whatever they please.

The US only entered WW2 when they themselves felt threatened. There was absolutely nothing altruistic about it, so get off your high horse.

If they'd entered the war when they should have it would have been a much shorter war.

[a99az]

I hope he manages to fight the charges and is set free.

Given politics however, who knows how the court case will go.

Do you have any idea what he is accused of? What about the liberties of the thousands he alleged to be responsible for the death of? However I don't see why usa has to continue to be the worlds self appointed police, the UN should really get there finger out and take control.

Let’s be honest here many government sell arms and many of the arms they sell end up being used against friendly army’s. Look at France for example they supplied exocet missiles to Argentina used against British ships in the Falklands, sure this is not a first, bet we could draw up a great list between us. So this guy did it free lance and made a killing is he so different?

[henryalleman]

Congratulations to all the "anti-American" posters on this board. You should all be diplomats from your respective home countries.

Do you REALLY think all the facts have been disclosed in this case ? Since you don't know what the hel_l you're talking about why don't you keep your phuckin mouth shut till you DO know the facts, and can make a fair judgement. They ought to call you "robin", you're all mouth and ass.

For all you people who hate the U.S. so much. you probably aren't old enough to remember, but if the U.S. hadn't entered World War 2 when they did, you'd all be speaking German. I'm old enough to remember, I was there.

Is all this anti-American bullshit you're spreading in any way related to the original post.....I don't think so,

You don't even know our history and then trying to educate us what would have happened (...we would perhaps be speaking Russian, since they turned the eastern front).

WW2 would have been won without the US, it only would have taken much longer time.

Yes. World War II would have been won without the Americans. Germany would have won the war. Germany could have walked across both England & France in one week had not the Americans intervened from the west & got their allies the Russian Communists to squeeze Germany from the East. History shows that England & France begged the U.S. to intevene to save them from the Germans. Pres. Roosevelt, himself coming from English stock, was itching to join his allies the English at a time when many Americans were against intervening in wars in Europe. Until FDR, what is called "isolationism" was the rule in the U.S. passed down from the wise policies of Presidents Washington & Jefferson. Interventionism & policing the world have been U.S. policy ever since WWII. Personally I am against fighting wars and millions of American dying and wounded fighting for other countries (Israel) and in other foreign countries. Seems that the many Anti-Americans on Thai Visa paint all Americans as demons when Americans just like other countries do not necessarily support their government. The U.S. only has two political parties that are capable of ruling and there is not a dime's worth of difference. The military industrial complex is the strongest lobby group (paying off politicians and buying the office of the President of the U.S. The vast majority of Americans have no voice in the affairs of the Government. It is a rigged system.

I'm sure you are an honnest and aimable man, but you are not the slightest hindred by military historical knowledge to say the least. The moment that the US interveened on the European and African front, the war was already on a turning point. All started with defeat of the Luftwaffe in the Blitz. On the African front you just have to recall El Alamein and Tobruk. The RAF was already bombing Germany on a large scale.

And may I add that the Brits only asked arms and airplanes from the US who they paid till the last dime, even all the weapons delivered after the US entered WW2. The same time they have to give up their naval base in the Bahama's and other countries. Its thank's to the Pommies that we don't speak German this with the help off the Aussies and Canadians and other Common Wealth troops. Wthho stand strong from day number one.

And its thanks to FDR that Eastern Europe suffered more than 50 years under Communism.

I know all off this is , but I just had to to reply to the hoax that without the US we all speak German.

PS: I make a difference between the common American citizen and their government. But the so called American patriots given me the shiffers.

[henryalleman]

I find interesting the fine definitions between sting and entrapment. In one case, a gold miner from Kalgoorlie (AUS) found an add for a Mexican hotel on a paedophile web-site, which said they could supply children to your specifications. He booked a room with 2 girls between the ages of 8-10.

Can't fly direct to Mexico from Aus, so he went via L.A. where he was arrested IN THE TRANSIT LOUNGE by the FBI, who run the add. Found guilty as he had paid a deposit, with his Amex no less.

In Thailand, if a police officer offers to sell you drugs, and you take them in your hand, you are guilty of possession. Bleeding heart liberals will tell you this is morally wrong, but it is also a cheap and effective way of apprehending persons with criminal intent.

Victor Bout was attempting to sell surface-to-air missiles. The shoulder launched versions are ineffective against military jets, better against helicopters, and far too good when it comes to civilian aircraft in take-off or landing. The possession of such a weapon is illegal in every country, perhaps not in combat zones.

When it comes to stopping some-one flogging these to all and sundry (hey FARC are nice guys) I'm all for whatever works. If politicaly correct extradition doesn't, next meeting blow his brains out

Do you have one? Laverda I mean

[cumtotysoon]

Maybe I have been watching too much Mission Improbable, but shirley, the spooks or even Jason Bond could keep this out of the courts - or at least give him an ultimatum - 'want to be bourne again?'

How about a little 'rendition' of that old song - by Jim Morrison?

i find it strange, for the last century USA have been selling arms, or even giving them away to the side they thought more righteuos than the other, in reality, they supplied the people they thought they could get the most out of. U cant leave the uk, dutch, german, japanese and many countires out of this, but one russian sels a few pop guns and bang, he's f----d. Come on US, give him a break, aint it true that the US even made ontracts for him to sell his bad gear?????

[peecee]

I hope he manages to fight the charges and is set free.

Given politics however, who knows how the court case will go.

Staggering ignorance! Just look how many countries law enforcement are after him!!

[peecee]

Congratulations to all the "anti-American" posters on this board. You should all be diplomats from your respective home countries.

Do you REALLY think all the facts have been disclosed in this case ? Since you don't know what the hel_l you're talking about why don't you keep your phuckin mouth shut till you DO know the facts, and can make a fair judgement. They ought to call you "robin", you're all mouth and ass.

For all you people who hate the U.S. so much. you probably aren't old enough to remember, but if the U.S. hadn't entered World War 2 when they did, you'd all be speaking German. I'm old enough to remember, I was there.

Is all this anti-American bullshit you're spreading in any way related to the original post.....I don't think so,

I though the US entered WW2 after the Jap's attacked them in Dec' 1941. By then the Gerries were in retreat in North Afrika & the Italians were ready to chuck it in: This was achieved by British, Auatralian, SA, NZ & Indian troop's. Adolf's decision to attack Russia almost lead to most of europe speaking russian not german! The US, Canada and Britain were the largest contributors to the invasion of France in '44 but many nations joined in to free Europe! The descision to carve up Europe after the war was were it all went wrong; after all it was France & Britain's effort to keep Poland free that started it!!

[Boo]

you were fully informed by the moderator concerned why your previous post was moderated, so if you wish to discuss it then pm them.

Any public discussion of it will result in a suspension.

[hardy1943]

I hope he manages to fight the charges and is set free.

Given politics however, who knows how the court case will go.

Do you have any idea what he is accused of? What about the liberties of the thousands he alleged to be responsible for the death of? However I don't see why usa has to continue to be the worlds self appointed police, the UN should really get there finger out and take control.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with selling arms.

If it was, let's drag US, UK, Germany, Russia, China, and a whole lot more countries infront of an international court and convict all the politicians approving it.

Seeing it happen yet?

Fact of the matter is that the case brought up to get him extradited is a bogus one. It's not even on the level of getting Capone for tax-evasion, it is much lower.

They are actually charging him with intent - no deal in writing was ever made, he only agreed to meet and possibly sell - arms to a 'Terrorist group', that was nothing more than American Agents posing as South American representatives of one of the many militias in the region.

So it was an entrapment that never even went into conclusion.

He is a merchant of arms and in a true free world he would be allowed to sell to anyone and any country he wishes.

Please give me someting what you been smoking

[AskTheCPT]

So there is no law against arms dealing across national borders in Thailand?

Seems rather illogical.

Most countries would not condon destabilizing another country from on their soil

Let him go. As many said before, all countries deal arms to others, if he has access to them, he can sell them.

Also, Lord of War was the only 1/2 way decent Nick Cage movie in the past 15 years, keep this guy free to make enough material for a sequel.

[ScubaBuddha]

TAWP, Marsteele and others, please, for your own sake, stop embarrassing yourselves by bringing up what America did 60 years ago in WWII as somehow relevant in this discussion, and inexplicably comparing the US's covert support of Afganistan in the 80's and other such irrelevancies when trying to rationalize the behavior of a truly evil profiteer that selectively orchestrated arms sales to both sides of a conflict causing huge suffering and death out of sheer boundless greed. Has the US sold arms, (and even personnel to advise and train military), to ONE side of a conflict in the name of "preserving liberty", and stemming the spread of communism? Yes, but that was a different time and there was a different mindset both in the US and abroad. AND the US didn't supply BOTH sides just to make money! Now if you want to talk about Bush/Cheney's illegal war in and Iraq...that's a whole 'nother issue.

[TAWP]

TAWP, Marsteele and others, please, for your own sake, stop embarrassing yourselves by bringing up what America did 60 years ago in WWII as somehow relevant in this discussion, and inexplicably comparing the US's covert support of Afganistan in the 80's and other such irrelevancies when trying to rationalize the behavior of a truly evil profiteer that selectively orchestrated arms sales to both sides of a conflict causing huge suffering and death out of sheer boundless greed. Has the US sold arms, (and even personnel to advise and train military), to ONE side of a conflict in the name of "preserving liberty", and stemming the spread of communism? Yes, but that was a different time and there was a different mindset both in the US and abroad. AND the US didn't supply BOTH sides just to make money! Now if you want to talk about Bush/Cheney's illegal war in and Iraq...that's a whole 'nother issue.

Selling to Saddam was -84-86 etc, hardly 60 years ago.

But whatever, you think it still doesn't happen.

Currently American companies, French and a Swedish/British (iirc) is fighting over 25 billion dollar contract to Brazil for fighter jets.

But they are 'the nice guys' atm, so it is alright.

It is just merchandise.

But some are more allowed than others.

[LaoPo]

This is an interesting but also fascinating case, both inherited by new world leaders: Obama and Medvedev but in fact, old cases from GW Bush and his friend Putin.

Thailand must have been under immense pressure from both sides and it's remarkable that they (read: Judge of the criminal court...right ?) were able to push off the US pressure, so far.

Sometimes America plays a strange role. On one hand they think they can ask for extradition of a Russian in a third country (Thailand this time) who they accuse of planning to sell weapons to Colombia (rebels) but at the same time they do not recognize the International Criminal Court* in The Hague.

It is in fact even more absurd: If an American or more Americans would be brought to the International Criminal Court in The Hague, the USA told the Court they will have (read: take) the right to storm the beaches of The Hague/The Netherlands and recapture this particular American or Americans...whether found guilty (by the Court) or not.

108 states are member of this Court, apart from the USA; fairness tells me that also China, India and Russia are critics of this Court.

Would America deliver a (war)-criminal to a nation who asks to extradite this particular individual(s) ?..Thailand maybe, Russia or Mexico ? hmmmm

Something to chew on.

* The International Criminal Court (ICC or ICCt) is a permanent tribunal to prosecute individuals for genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes, and the crime of aggression (although it cannot currently exercise jurisdiction over the crime of aggression)

LaoPo

[ScubaBuddha]

TAWP, Marsteele and others, please, for your own sake, stop embarrassing yourselves by bringing up what America did 60 years ago in WWII as somehow relevant in this discussion, and inexplicably comparing the US's covert support of Afganistan in the 80's and other such irrelevancies when trying to rationalize the behavior of a truly evil profiteer that selectively orchestrated arms sales to both sides of a conflict causing huge suffering and death out of sheer boundless greed. Has the US sold arms, (and even personnel to advise and train military), to ONE side of a conflict in the name of "preserving liberty", and stemming the spread of communism? Yes, but that was a different time and there was a different mindset both in the US and abroad. AND the US didn't supply BOTH sides just to make money! Now if you want to talk about Bush/Cheney's illegal war in and Iraq...that's a whole 'nother issue.

Selling to Saddam was -84-86 etc, hardly 60 years ago.

Currently American companies, French and a Swedish/British (iirc) is fighting over 25 billion dollar contract to Brazil for fighter jets.

But they are 'the nice guys' atm, so it is alright.

It is just merchandise.

But some are more allowed than others.

If you really wanted to make your point you should have mentioned that we also sold F-14 Tomcats and other weapons to Iran in 1976. You would have had a point there, but still there is a big difference, as we weren't supplying both sides simultaneously fueling a war to make a buck, or a billion bucks as our "merchant of death" here has done repeatedly. I think that is an important distinction which makes your argument falls flat.

[ScubaBuddha]

This is an interesting but also fascinating case, both inherited by new world leaders: Obama and Medvedev but in fact, old cases from GW Bush and his friend Putin.

Thailand must have been under immense pressure from both sides and it's remarkable that they (read: Judge of the criminal court...right ?) were able to push off the US pressure, so far.

Sometimes America plays a strange role. On one hand they think they can ask for extradition of a Russian in a third country (Thailand this time) who they accuse of planning to sell weapons to Colombia (rebels) but at the same time they do not recognize the International Criminal Court* in The Hague.

It is in fact even more absurd: If an American or more Americans would be brought to the International Criminal Court in The Hague, the USA told the Court they will have (read: take) the right to storm the beaches of The Hague/The Netherlands and recapture this particular American or Americans...whether found guilty (by the Court) or not.

108 states are member of this Court, apart from the USA; fairness tells me that also China, India and Russia are critics of this Court.

Would America deliver a (war)-criminal to a nation who asks to extradite this particular individual(s) ?..Thailand maybe, Russia or Mexico ? hmmmm

Something to chew on.

* The International Criminal Court (ICC or ICCt) is a permanent tribunal to prosecute individuals for genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes, and the crime of aggression (although it cannot currently exercise jurisdiction over the crime of aggression)

LaoPo

Yes I remember when that came out..but wouldn't it be more accuarate to say "The Bush and Chaney Administration" intead of "The USA"? The reason they came out with this position is because they were worried about reprecussions from the Iraq debacle. Personally I would love to see them all get banged up at The Haugue.

[sassienie]

The rise and fall of Russia's 'Merchant of Death'

Posted Fri Mar 7, 2008 10:01am AEDT

Viktor Bout sits at the Crime Suppression Bureau in Bangkok following his arrest on charges of attempted mass murder. (AFP)

Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout, who was arrested on Thursday in Bangkok following a US sting operation, has been linked to civil wars in Africa, the Taliban militia, Al Qaeda and Marxist rebels in South America.

Known as the 'Merchant of Death', his career took off with the collapse of the Soviet Union and his cheap arms and planes fuelled conflicts world-wide until his high-profile image proved to be his undoing.

His notorious career inspired a Hollywood film - the Nicholas Cage vehicle Lord of War - and the moustachioed former pilot has become a target for arms control pressure groups and law enforcement agencies from several countries.

Bout was born in the Tajikistan capital Dushanbe in 1967 and studied several languages - including English, French and Portuguese - at Moscow's military institute for foreign languages before joining the Soviet air force.

He has repeatedly denied suggestions that he was a former member of the KGB, but in a 2003 interview with the New York Times he admitted that in 1992 he bought three Antonov transport planes for $US120,000 ($129,700).

The fall of the Soviet Union spelt a windfall for Bout, allowing him to buy Soviet-era weaponry, aircraft and helicopters at throwaway rates and supply them to fighters in some of the world's bloodiest conflict zones.

The planes and helicopters as well as the crew manning them were hardy, low-maintainance and above all, very cheap.

Former British foreign minister Peter Hain dubbed him the 'Merchant of Death' and rights watchdog Amnesty International has alleged that at one time he operated a fleet of more than 50 planes ferrying weapons around Africa.

The British press has also linked him to Al Qaeda and to Afghanistan's extremist Taliban movement. Bout is also suspected of smuggling arms to former Liberian president Charles Taylor, who was subject to an UN arms embargo.

Journalist Douglas Farah, who co-authored a book on Bout, has called him "a unique creature born of the end of Communism and the rise of unbridled capitalism when the Wall came down in the early 1990s".

"He saw ... abandoned aircraft on the runways from Moscow to Kiev, no longer able to fly because of lack of money for fuel or maintenance; huge stores of surplus weapons that were guarded by guards suddenly receiving little or no salary; and the booming demand for those weapons from traditional Soviet clients and newly emerging armed groups from Africa to the Philippines," Mr Farah said.

"He simply wedded the three things, taking aircraft for almost nothing, filling them with cheaply purchased weapons from the arsenals, and flying them to clients who could pay."

But the head of the Africa program at Britain's Royal Institute of International Affairs, Alex Vines, says Bout's notoriety ultimately led to his arrest at a Bangkok luxury hotel in a sting operation by US agents posing as Colombian rebels.

"He became a celebrity in a sense because of NGOs and UN reporting about him," Mr Vines said.

"He became the brand name for sanction-busting, but there are plenty of others who can offer the same services. It contributed to his problems, that he was a brand to be recognized.

"This is a business that doesn't do well with this kind of recognition."

[chiangdan]

Its only one way for him: extradition. It will happen sooner or later as US is much stronger on the ground in Thailand than Russia.

Do you want to say that if "US is much stronger on the ground in Thailand than Russia", it means that CIA and FBI can do whatever they want in Thailand and give orders to Thai government? Thai government has never obeyed orders from the US.

Thailand government is clever enough to balance between Russia and US.

US is the self appointed ruler of the world and they think they can do what ever they want where ever they want to who ever they want. Good on you thailand for standing up and not being intimidated by this bully. They will want thier revenge tho.

[LaoPo]

This is an interesting but also fascinating case, both inherited by new world leaders: Obama and Medvedev but in fact, old cases from GW Bush and his friend Putin.

Thailand must have been under immense pressure from both sides and it's remarkable that they (read: Judge of the criminal court...right ?) were able to push off the US pressure, so far.

Sometimes America plays a strange role. On one hand they think they can ask for extradition of a Russian in a third country (Thailand this time) who they accuse of planning to sell weapons to Colombia (rebels) but at the same time they do not recognize the International Criminal Court* in The Hague.

It is in fact even more absurd: If an American or more Americans would be brought to the International Criminal Court in The Hague, the USA told the Court they will have (read: take) the right to storm the beaches of The Hague/The Netherlands and recapture this particular American or Americans...whether found guilty (by the Court) or not.

108 states are member of this Court, apart from the USA; fairness tells me that also China, India and Russia are critics of this Court.

Would America deliver a (war)-criminal to a nation who asks to extradite this particular individual(s) ?..Thailand maybe, Russia or Mexico ? hmmmm

Something to chew on.

* The International Criminal Court (ICC or ICCt) is a permanent tribunal to prosecute individuals for genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes, and the crime of aggression (although it cannot currently exercise jurisdiction over the crime of aggression)

LaoPo

Yes I remember when that came out..but wouldn't it be more accuarate to say "The Bush and Chaney Administration" intead of "The USA"? The reason they came out with this position is because they were worried about reprecussions from the Iraq debacle. Personally I would love to see them all get banged up at The Haugue.

Oh, absolutely, you're right; I didn't mean to bash upon the USA or it's population as such. It's more the system Washington DC/The Administration/the Military/CIA, or other entities who are responsible for this case as well as the follow up.

We shouldn't forget that we, as the people on the sidelines of the world stages, have to live with WHAT and HOW our governments serve the plates during dinner....THEY tell us WHAT they want us to know and when.

Upon those ingredients, served on those plates, we form our opinions...nothing more nothing less. The newspapers, the television networks, they ALL consume the same ingredients, whether lied upon by our governments (Iraq for instance) or not.

Our governments will NEVER tell us the entire truth. If they would they could not control the masses anymore.

Only in very rare cases the audience finds out (like Watergate). It's dirty in the offices of our governments, very dirty.

LaoPo

[Richard W]

Yes. World War II would have been won without the Americans. Germany would have won the war. Germany could have walked across both England & France in one week had not the Americans intervened from the west & got their allies the Russian Communists to squeeze Germany from the East.

The Russians only fought the Germans because the Germans attacked them. Up until then they had been dismissing British warnings of an imminent attack as lies.

The German frontal attack on Britain failed. American government assistance to Britain is more relevant to the Battle of the Atlantic. And, yes, I know there was private American support in the Battle of Britain - many nationalities supported, and later on there was even a Thai prince (Chirasakti Bhanubandh) killed in the Air Transport Auxiliary.

90 percent of the posts on this thread should be deleted for being totally OFF TOPIC. Please start a new thread called...WHY I HATE AMERICANS. There you can vent your hatred and not bore the 10 percent that want to discuss a killer selling arms to kill more people.

I believe that I have a right to, in my own country, spy on the US or plan the targeting of missiles against the US if my government so requests. I am against the principle that the US would have the right to extradite me from Thailand for such activities.

[chiangdan]

Indeed. Of the famous things about Victor was that he supposedly shipped not only weapons, but also food and even UN material with his planes and sometimes in both directions, i.e. the planes avoided flying empty. So they might point the fingers, but he was convinient to use when they needed help.

Make no mistake, the issue is not that he deals arms. Not even to war zones. The 'mistake' was being open to any customer, even those some countries didn't like. Or reportedly, sometimes to both sides of a conflict...

Oh, Victor, if only you would had made sure to only deal with the 'nice' rogue states and not the 'evil' ones. Even if the trick is that most countries list of who is who varies...ah, the dilemma.

What was the movie, Nicholas Cage, Lords of War,, has a ring about it,

If manufacturing countries were serious about stopping this sort of thing, then close down manufacturers, but hey there is way too much money in war,, ask IBM how they made mega million "supporting Hitler" with its early "computer card system". They operated through the embargo against Germany during WW2

Bin Laden says thankyou US for all the toys of destruction the US sent

Hussein bought from US , UK ,France, in fact anyone. He had to spend the Petro Dollars some how,, guns for oil

WE reap what you (US) sow

Yes very true. The US was instrumental in bringing Suddam Hussien to power because he was to be thier puupet. The US had a problem with Iran not bowing to thier demands so supplied tons of weapons to Irak to commence the Irak/Iran war used irak as thier puppet in the hope that they would defeat iran. US didn't want to get thier hands dirty. Then there is all in the conflicts in South America and who is supplying the arms there? The US. Lets not forget the African nations being supplied by the US. I recall a cargo ship packed full of US arms being hijacked off the African coast. The uS sent in it's forces eliminated the pirated to allow the shipment to go through. The don't interfer when the pirates hijack a shipment of aid or food tho.

Yes America is the biggest arms dealer in the world it is big business to them. They encourage conflict in 3rd world countries to support the industry. Without wars the American economy would slip even further. The US is the real criminal here not Victor and I say good on you Thailand for seeing through the crap that the US tried to feed you.