"stop Hunting For 'foreign' Scapegoats"

[Mobi]

Stop hunting for 'foreign' scapegoats

Writer: Sanitsuda Ekachai, Bangkok Post.

Published: 13/08/2009 at 12:00 AM

It is one thing to nurse concern for small-scale farmers. It is another thing, however, to make foreigners the scapegoats. For the so-called backbone of the country, the lack of farmland indeed poses a serious problem to Thai farmers, who are also struggling with indebtedness from the high cost of farm investment amid chronically low prices, while their once fertile soil is rapidly dying due to intensive chemical farming. Should we focus on the root of their problems instead of resorting to xenophobia?

The recent spate of news on proxy ownership of rice farmland by rich foreign investors has stirred much public anxiety and nationalist fervour, although much of the news has been based on the news sources' concerns, rather than on concrete evidence. According to these news reports, the foreigners - mainly those from oil-rich Arab countries - are buying up rice paddies in the countryside and hiring the locals to till the land in order to ensure sufficient rice supply for their countries, and to benefit financially from the various rice support schemes offered by the government.

While this story is going nowhere, reportedly due to the farmers' fear to talk, the latest news angle focuses on the foreign husbands of Thai women who, through their wives, are buying up farmland in scenic areas in order to build resorts.

Yes, we should be concerned about the farmers' rapid loss of land. But aren't we pointing the finger in the wrong direction?

When the government launched the Green Revolution 40 years ago with an aim to make Thailand the world's biggest rice exporter, every farmer dreamed that the high-yield rice varieties and chemical rice farming would make them prosperous for good.No one knew that they would soon suffer from frequent pestilence as a result of mono-culture farming and a losing business. How could they survive when fluctuating rice prices in the world market just could not keep up with the skyrocketing prices of farm chemicals?

While the farmers wilt, intensive chemical farming destroys soil fertility, contaminates the waterways, causes various illnesses from chemical residue in the food chain, or simply maims and kills farmers from prolonged over-exposure to hazardous chemicals.

And now when the farmers feel they know better and are trying to switch to organic farming and herbal pesticides, guess who are their main opponents? Who else but the farm chemical giants - and our very own agricultural authorities.

Remember their efforts to list such medicinal herbs that are widely used for herbal pesticides as "hazardous" and thus subject to tight control? Guess why.

Amid the losing business of rice farming, many farmers decided to sell their land to speculators under rising demand from the tourism industry and the urban middle class' need for holiday homes. For those who wanted to keep the land, many experimented with contract farming with big business, only to find themselves in the same trap of chemical farming and empty promises.

Out of familial gratitude, many daughters of poor farmers entered the sex trade to support their families. Many are severely exploited. Many have died from work-related sicknesses. But some, too, found love and security through marrying foreigners. They set up families and started doing business, as all couples do. We should be happy for them, shouldn't we? Why should we harass them with this proxy land ownership fervour?

Is it because it is much easier to hassle them than take to task the big investors, Thai and foreign, who are paying the land officials big time to get prime resort locations illegally?

Or is it because they prefer to turn a blind eye to the inequitable land ownership system, knowing that the politically powerful landlords are here to stay, regardless of their political colours?

Have some guts. Deal with destructive farming. Deal with big landlords. Deal with corrupt officials.

If the government cannot address the real cause of landlessness, leave those women who now have a life with their foreign spouses alone.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Mobi

[mrtoad]

Yep, the insinuation that foreigners mainly marry sex workers.

Seems, that they can't help themselves at the moment.

[barrybankruad]

Yep, the insinuation that foreigners mainly marry sex workers.

Seems, that they can't help themselves at the moment.

Perhaps if we got Thaksin back who at least 'seemed' to have concern for the poor rice farmer and the plight he finds himself in, Thaksin may break the cycle! Of course it won't happen, that's why they got rid of him in the first place. He may well have been corrupt, but he was 'farting against thunder' when it came to trying to deal with the equally (or more) corrupt 'powers that be'.

[Moonrakers]

Yep, the insinuation that foreigners mainly marry sex workers.

Seems, that they can't help themselves at the moment.

Perhaps if we got Thaksin back who at least 'seemed' to have concern for the poor rice farmer and the plight he finds himself in, Thaksin may break the cycle! Of course it won't happen, that's why they got rid of him in the first place. He may well have been corrupt, but he was 'farting against thunder' when it came to trying to deal with the equally (or more) corrupt 'powers that be'.

[mrtoad]

Yep, the insinuation that foreigners mainly marry sex workers.

Seems, that they can't help themselves at the moment.

Perhaps if we got Thaksin back who at least 'seemed' to have concern for the poor rice farmer and the plight he finds himself in, Thaksin may break the cycle! Of course it won't happen, that's why they got rid of him in the first place. He may well have been corrupt, but he was 'farting against thunder' when it came to trying to deal with the equally (or more) corrupt 'powers that be'.

Can you please tell me, what Thaksin has got to do with this in the slightest? We have enough thread dominated by the fugitive without bringing him into it. As it is, just for information Thaksin was one of the most jingoistic and anti-farang politicans in Thailand. It was nice when they booted the criminal out of my country.

[cdnvic]

Yep, the insinuation that foreigners mainly marry sex workers.

Seems, that they can't help themselves at the moment.

Sounds like he was trying to make two seperate points but the two kind of got mashed together.

Well, at least the author's heart is in the right place on this one.

Too bad this will never be published in a Thai language paper.

[pavlovsdog]

I remember very well the report in the BKK Post several months ago - front page - which listed 15 natural items, including lemon grass, garlic and chillis (yes chillis) as hazardous substances. Thus making it illegal for farmers to use such items as natural peticides etc. The government were obviously quite happy to push this disgracefull lie on behalf the big chemical corps.

However, the farmers wouldn't take this without a fight and several days later the Government backed down. (Obvious who the Government represent - not the people!)

For anyone interested, this evil system is being forced upon farmers and the general public throughout the world - soon even common vitamins will be restricted. Just google 'codex alimentarious' or watch this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5266884912495233634

Edited August 14, 2009 by pavlovsdog

[dondraper]

Yep, the insinuation that foreigners mainly marry sex workers.

Seems, that they can't help themselves at the moment.

where do you see that?

[Lancelot]

I especially enjoy reading K. Sanitsuda's commentaries and this one was no exception. Actually it makes sense for some to beat the "Foreigners are buying up the country" drum because it shifts attention away from the real culprits - a few rich Thai property speculators. If there is more demand for land, the average Somchai might just get a fair price should he chose to sell.

Pity that things won't be changing but what can we expect in a society that refuses to acknowledge problems..

Jai yen na

[PattayaParent]

I remember very well the report in the BKK Post several months ago - front page - which listed 15 natural items, including lemon grass, garlic and chillis (yes chillis) as hazardous substances. Thus making it illegal for farmers to use such items as natural peticides etc. The government were obviously quite happy to push this disgracefull lie on behalf the big chemical corps.

However, the farmers wouldn't take this without a fight and several days later the Government backed down. (Obvious who the Government represent - not the people!)

For anyone interested, this evil system is being forced upon farmers and the general public throughout the world - soon even common vitamins will be restricted. Just google 'codex alimentarious' or watch this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5266884912495233634

I'm guessing you're American?

[Maizefarmer]

Yep, the insinuation that foreigners mainly marry sex workers.

Seems, that they can't help themselves at the moment.

The reality of the matter is that the statistics show the majority - not all, but the majority - of marriges between Thai girls and Western men, involve girls who have a history of working in the bar and/or sex industry.

That aside, I really can't see the point of Sanitsuda Ekachai's writing. He's been harping on about this land thing now for some time, but personally I haven't found his commentry exciting or to be adding much to the debate.

If he wants to lend credibility to his allegations then I would encourage him to get out there and do some gumshoe work - cite some examples of what he's writing about, and some commentry on the landownership and financial legislation that has encouraged or made this so easy to do, because I can tell you now from my own personal experiance in this business, that I have yet to any evidence of large scale farm land buy up by any foreign entity - and precisouly because leislation makes it so dam_n difficult to do without it coming to attention.

Its a nice story, and yes, there have indeed been foreign entities looking at large land tracts over the years, but all those that have come to fruition did so within legislative framework that so 100% legal - I have yet to see any evidence of large scale buy ups been carried out as they were in Cambodia, and facilitated for by bent officials in complete disregard for local interests.

It has not happened in Thailand - whether it be for farm land or resort land. Other than for the coastal areas, I can't think of much more than a dozen or so resorts owned by foreign companies - hardly of national significance - the majoirty of inland resorts were built on and run on Thai money.

...... keeps the print pages full, but from a journalism point of view - nothing exceptional. I'm sure he could do better.

C'mon Khun Sanitsuda - what's up?

Edited August 14, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[cdnvic]

The reality of the matter is that the statistics show the majority - not all, but the majority - of marriges between Thai girls and Western men, involve girls who have a history of working in the bar and/or sex industry.

Please show us these "statistics".

[endure]

Yep, the insinuation that foreigners mainly marry sex workers.

Seems, that they can't help themselves at the moment.

The reality of the matter is that the statistics show the majority - not all, but the majority - of marriges between Thai girls and Western men, involve girls who have a history of working in the bar and/or sex industry.

That aside, I really can't see the point of Sanitsuda Ekachai's writing. He's been harping on about this land thing now for some time, but personally I haven't found his commentry exciting or to be adding much to the debate.

Sanitsuda Ekachai is a woman.

[cdnvic]

Yep, the insinuation that foreigners mainly marry sex workers.

Seems, that they can't help themselves at the moment.

The reality of the matter is that the statistics show the majority - not all, but the majority - of marriges between Thai girls and Western men, involve girls who have a history of working in the bar and/or sex industry.

That aside, I really can't see the point of Sanitsuda Ekachai's writing. He's been harping on about this land thing now for some time, but personally I haven't found his commentry exciting or to be adding much to the debate.

Sanitsuda Ekachai is a woman.

Finally, someone mistakes a Thai woman for a man, rather than the reverse.

[Mobi]

Yep, the insinuation that foreigners mainly marry sex workers.

Seems, that they can't help themselves at the moment.

The reality of the matter is that the statistics show the majority - not all, but the majority - of marriges between Thai girls and Western men, involve girls who have a history of working in the bar and/or sex industry.

That aside, I really can't see the point of Sanitsuda Ekachai's writing. He's been harping on about this land thing now for some time, but personally I haven't found his commentry exciting or to be adding much to the debate.

Sanitsuda Ekachai is a woman.

I do not know who is correct here.

What I do know that Sanitsuda Ekachai is a senior columnist (assistant editor?) at the Bangkok Post who is highly respected, and has bravely written about scandals and injustices for many years, when other reporters have been scared to open their mouths.

In other matters she has researched her articles thoroughly, including interviews of those involved, and I would be extermely surprised if she wrote this one "one the hoof" She simply isn't that kind of writer.

Maize Farmer, just because you see no evidence of what she is writing in your neck of the woods, that doesn't mean that it is not prevalent in other areas of Thailand. Your experience is anecdotal, her experience/knowledge is gained from being a Thai Puyai, with many connections, and many years of experience as a respected journalist.

I know who I am more likely to believe in this matter.

And my "anecdotal" experience on the subject of girls from the "sex/bar industry' marrying farangs who live up-country, is that every single one that I know of met her husband in the bar trade. That is not to demean them in any way,(as indeed Ekachai didn't), and it strikes me that some folk are a tad too touchy on this matter. (the "My wife has a degree/was educated abroad, comes from a respectable family and is richer than me" brigade).

But I may be wrong.

Who cares?

Move on - life's too short.

[Heng]

The reality of the matter is that the statistics show the majority - not all, but the majority - of marriges between Thai girls and Western men, involve girls who have a history of working in the bar and/or sex industry.

Please show us these "statistics".

I don't believe these stats exist, so it surely isn't true.

Funny though that there aren't too many forums around that prohibit mentioning/discussing non bargirls/sex workers.

[mrtoad]

The reality of the matter is that the statistics show the majority - not all, but the majority - of marriges between Thai girls and Western men, involve girls who have a history of working in the bar and/or sex industry.

Please show us these "statistics".

Well, not applicable here Vic, you should know that everyone on TV is married to an overseas educated postgraduate Thai Chinese whose father is chief of police.

[cdnvic]

The reality of the matter is that the statistics show the majority - not all, but the majority - of marriges between Thai girls and Western men, involve girls who have a history of working in the bar and/or sex industry.

Please show us these "statistics".

Well, not applicable here Vic, you should know that everyone on TV is married to an overseas educated postgraduate Thai Chinese whose father is chief of police.

Doesn't matter if they're Chinese, Isaan, or from the south, to make insinuations like that about the wives of forum members is out of line. Of course everyone's brave behind a keyboard, but some lack class as well.

I think what is happening is that if they can successfully push these assumptions on the rest of the forum, they will feel a little more comfortable with their own choices. If they want to live in that little dream world it's ok with me, but if you want to say something about other member's families, at least show up at a TV party and do it to their faces, not while hiding behind a keyboard.

[mrtoad]

The reality of the matter is that the statistics show the majority - not all, but the majority - of marriges between Thai girls and Western men, involve girls who have a history of working in the bar and/or sex industry.

Please show us these "statistics".

Well, not applicable here Vic, you should know that everyone on TV is married to an overseas educated postgraduate Thai Chinese whose father is chief of police.

Doesn't matter if they're Chinese, Isaan, or from the south, to make insinuations like that about the wives of forum members is out of line. Of course everyone's brave behind a keyboard, but some lack class as well.

I think what is happening is that if they can successfully push these assumptions on the rest of the forum, they will feel a little more comfortable with their own choices. If they want to live in that little dream world it's ok with me, but if you want to say something about other member's families, at least show up at a TV party and do it to their faces, not while hiding behind a keyboard.

Is this aimed at me?

[cdnvic]

No Toad.

[mrtoad]

No Toad.

Sorry Vic

[bonobo]

There is one major point which makes the charge of foreign husbands owning land by proxie through their Thai wives rather superfluous.  The owner is the wife, not the husband.  The money may have come from the husband, but the land is in Thai hands.  And when the husband passes on, the land will remain in his wife's hands, should she survive him, and in their children's hands, should there be any.  And should the wife have children from a previous relationship, they can inherit the land as well.

So what can a retired, 60-year-old Englishman (sorry to stereotype here) do if in fact he uses his money to buy some land in his Thai wife's name?  Pack it up and take it to England?  Make huge profits and send that money back to the UK?  What exactly is the problem here?

[PeaceBlondie]

Funny though that there aren't too many forums around that prohibit mentioning/discussing non bargirls/sex workers.

ThaiVisa permits it.

..."18) Not to discuss the specifics of prostitution. Thailand has a visible sex industry, and acknowledgment of that fact is not forbidden. However ThaiVisa is not the place to seek or give information on this topic, regardless of your sexual habits, preferences or orientation."

This thread was allowed: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Sammi-Noi-Ba...ro-t249564.html

[pavlovsdog]

I remember very well the report in the BKK Post several months ago - front page - which listed 15 natural items, including lemon grass, garlic and chillis (yes chillis) as hazardous substances. Thus making it illegal for farmers to use such items as natural peticides etc. The government were obviously quite happy to push this disgracefull lie on behalf the big chemical corps.

However, the farmers wouldn't take this without a fight and several days later the Government backed down. (Obvious who the Government represent - not the people!)

For anyone interested, this evil system is being forced upon farmers and the general public throughout the world - soon even common vitamins will be restricted. Just google 'codex alimentarious' or watch this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5266884912495233634

I'm guessing you're American?

You guess wrong then mate! So I take it you think this is BS and you wouldn't spend your precious time to research. You make an inane statement showing the depth of your intelect - whats the relevance of my nationality to the facts I state

[Heng]

Funny though that there aren't too many forums around that prohibit mentioning/discussing non bargirls/sex workers.

ThaiVisa permits it.

..."18) Not to discuss the specifics of prostitution. Thailand has a visible sex industry, and acknowledgment of that fact is not forbidden. However ThaiVisa is not the place to seek or give information on this topic, regardless of your sexual habits, preferences or orientation."

This thread was allowed: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Sammi-Noi-Ba...ro-t249564.html

thanks PB. TV moderation is surely second to none in terms of quality of membership and fairness, naturally I was referring to online forums in general.

The locals also keep Bill Heinecke around as "proof" that foreigners always get a fair deal. Now if we could only tie a long kevlar string to his waist to pull him back to attend PR press conferences as needed.

[Maizefarmer]

Referring to Sanitusuda as he instead of she ....... sorry - big deal, I was typing away, eating a plate of food, filling in paperwork, had a compressor blerring away in my left ear, someone shouting to me every few minutes .... and I wrote he instead of she! Oh well - nice to know so many folk had read what I had written: I think she could do better - she has not said much about the core of the problem (which I commented on in an earlier thread which raised what she had written) and I think her comments on the subject miss out on some very important points.

But back to the subject that seems to have swamped out Sanitusuda original commentry:

Stats ........ what stats?

Where do you want me to start Heng - Cdnvic....... there have been so many studies into the phenomana of so-called "cross culturale" or "transnational" marriges ...... most the the detailed ones are in Thai, but some have been written up in English.

Read Bunroongsook's 1995 study, or Smith's book about American and Thai marriges in Thailand (which he wrote in the early 1970's), one of the first social scientists to collate in depth figures and stats on marriges between Westerners and different Thai socio-economic groups. Or read Teerawichitchanan's study in 1997 on Westerners in Thai marriges and their tendency to take mia-noi's (a comparative study with Thai's who do the same thing!)

...... or Askew's comments and stats in his 1999 study, in which he writres about "mia chao's" - something I thing ex-pats still today get tied up into with realising it in the context that Thai's realise and accept it.

Remember too, that other than for the occassional socialising between Westerners and Thai's that took place in the "old days" by way of diplomatic socialising, business dealing and trading, the majority of socialising that has occurred between Westerners and Thai's is a spin off from the "mia chao" R&R days, when Europeans took their military leave at one of the Thai coastal resorts - and we all know what industry grew up from that.

Remember the Thai book "Love & Marrige - 20th Century Mate selection in Central Thailand" by Bumroonsuk around 1994-5 - nope, dont remember, haven't read it? It's of course in Thai, but I think there are some English reprints, anyway, in one of his interviews on TV he specificaly comments on his findings when interviewing girls in the North and North East who had married ex-pats - the overwhelming majority were girls who came from poor rural backgrounds and who had gone down to Pattaya, or Phuket or Bangkok, and had worked in bars - where the majoirty had met their ex-pat partners.

In 1998 Prof Matthijs Kalmijn of the Department of Sociology at Tilburg University wrote a large tome on the subject (Kalmijn has written a lot one the subject and ahs a solid reputation). He, like many others before him collated data from Thai id records of females married to Westerners, in particular making a note of the Thai partners occupation and education level. Statisticaly the largest group were females who came from rural areas of the North East and North - and had stated their occupation as "waitress", "barstaff", or some similar related job description. In subsequent interviewing of those who could be interviewed, many of them were found to have given such job descriptions as euphamistic descriptions for "bar work".

Cohen in his 1996 book "Thai Tourism, Hilltribes Islands and Open Ended Prostitution" - he also collated stats on girls married to ex-pats, and he too found that the majority of "transnational" and "cross culturale" marriges between Thai's and ex-pats were between ex-pats who had met their partner in a restrurant or bar enviroment.

Yes - I know it's a touchy subject and that like the circumstances that surrounded David Carridines death, it's one of those subjects that folk prefer to dress-up or talk around, or even pretend isn't the case, just as many would prefer Carridine to have been murdered or to have committed suicide than to have accidentaly died the way he did.

It has nothing to do with insinuation, it has nothing to do with comparing so and so's wife who comes from this or that family, to so and so's wife who comes from a family with a different or higher socio-economic background - mrToad challenged an earlier comment on the thread which suggested many of the cross-culturale marriges between ex-pats and Thai's had a certain flavour to them.

mrToad questioned the insinuation that most ex-pats marry sex workers.

Folk can read into it what they like, interpertate it as they will, make whatever judgement about it they like, critise those who do or adopt a defensive position in their favour .... that's all immaterial, and please do not draw me down one path or the other - personally, I couldn't care a hoot who one marries or their motives, I was replying to a question I was asked, not making a judgement: where are the stats? - well, I have just touched, only just touched on the evidence that has been collated and published on the subject - the majority of ex-pat/Thai marriges are with girls who have a background in the bar/sex industry. It's a fact.

[Heng]

My comment was made with sarcasm Maize. Anyone who has lived here for a decade or more and have met hundreds of couples from all walks of life, from all over the country/all over the world; and made unbiased observations of said couples know what "the stats" are.

[cdnvic]

You said "Statistics show....."

I'm still waiting for them.

[Gary A]

Landless farmers? It would certainly be interesting to see who has the largest land holdings in the country. Any guesses?

[Mobi]

Anyone who has lived here for a decade or more and have met hundreds of couples from all walks of life, from all over the country/all over the world; and made unbiased observations of said couples know what "the stats" are.

Precisely

As I said - anecdotal evidence.

But why so many farangs on Thai Visa should get wound up about it is beyond my simple mind.

I guess "denial" must play some part. All very unhealthy.