Thai Customs Dept Facing Overhaul

[wrecker]

That sounds sweet, but it does not solve the problems anyhow. The customs boys and grils will sit on the goods with their big fat behind till the moment that you have made the payments anyhow. Companies need to work fast, and you get even receipt when you pay them the money they ask. Nothing will change because the democrats make too much money out of the crooked system. This government is great in dubbel standards, saying one thing doing another. In general everybody can see that the bureaucracy has dramatically increased after the military grabbed power and handed it to the Democrat party.

[fullcave]

Would make it much easier to calculate import costs! Now basically it's hit and miss (mostly miss) and a hassle. Also sometimes the bribes are more then the actual duty should be as they always exaggerate the price in order to "help you" on the side.

Edited August 20, 2009 by fullcave

[john b good]

So the Thai Customs Dept is the most corrupt in Thailand.

These guys should feel real pround because to attain the status of "most corrupt" thay have really excelled themselves.

That's gotta make them the most corrupy Gov't Dept in SE Asia.

It's a laugh a minute here isn't it. Yesterday it was the short skirts (and the girls flashing their knickers and some of them, their beavers at the teachers)

What's it gonna be tomorrow ? Farang tourists with their knackers hanging out of their shorts.

It's a pity Walt is dead otherwise he would have all the material he would need for many full length movies

Edited August 20, 2009 by john b good

[Rico3000]

Please send your complaints to the following organization who are serious about reforming corrupt practices in customs authorities worldwide:-

World Customs Organization

Rue du Marché, 30

B-1210 Brussels

Belgium

Telephone: +32 (0) 2 209.92.11

Facsimile: +32 (0) 2 209.92.62

General enquiries

email: [email protected]

Press enquiries

(Public and Media Relations Division)

Tel: +32 (0)2 209 94 42

Fax: +32 (0)2 209 94 96

email: [email protected]

Publications

(Online bookshop)

email: [email protected]

Capacity Building

email: [email protected]

Enforcement and Compliance

email: [email protected]

Procedures and Facilitation

email: [email protected]

Classification and Nomenclature

email: [email protected]

Origin

email: [email protected]

Valuation

email: [email protected]

[trainman34014]

What I would love to know is how many letters the Government gets from anonymous Thai's and Expat's more educated than most of its ministers pointing out all the home trues and explaining to them what would be the ways to go about putting things right very quickly in most area's that need urgent attention before this country slides down the toilet once and for all.

I would also like to know where these letters end up. Somehow I don't think that the majority of them end up in the Prime Ministers in tray!

[trainman34014]

What's it gonna be tomorrow ? Farang tourists with their knackers hanging out of their shorts.

Ok; I've now adjusted my shorts!

[hansnl]

All the "negative vibrations" on this post are understandable.

Many of us know and felt what tea money really means, for farang and Thai.

However, the fact someone in Government seems to know that the, may I call it the mess in customs, gives a mighty doses of loss of face for Thailand.

Moreover a strain on business relations with companies, governments and private people abroad

Maybe, just maybe, this means that indeed the problems are starting to be recognised, and also the need for change.

Let us hope, for the Thai people, change is on it's way.

If no change will come, and soon, Thailand will indeed become the laughing stock of all the neighbours that are surpassing this country.

I really hope so.

[hazz]

A few years back I imported my stuff to thailand with no work permit so no duty exemption. Because of a fundamentalist's zeal never to pay bribes I ended up having dealings a number of middle ranking customs officers of head off any issues before my stuff arrived.

Both these officers who were earning about 22,500 B per month, but had paid 4 million B for their last promotions. The only other people I know who have had to buy their positions are in the police and land office. This gives those affected a sense of moral entitlement to expect bribes and partake in extortion rackets after all they have paid for the privilege and how else are they going to get their investment back.

Unless this issue is resolved any attempts to clean up these departments is going fail. Its clearly possible, I have been told that 20-30 years ago the whole civil service was like this; one big extortion racket you paid to join.

[givenall]

No mention regarding the eradication of "tea money"

I think the tea money is embedded into Thai or many other cultures as well. To eliminate it would not be possible with legislation; it would take an “Act of God”

[BusyB]

I'm captain on a chemical tanker and recently called Mapthaput, after Argentina I think Thailand is the 2nd worst country in the world when it comes to customs. The port call cost me 12 bottles of whiskey and 2000 cigaretts just to get the ship cleared, not to mention all the several hundreds of papers needed, In other countries it is usually enough with 10-20 papers to clear the ship.

And if that wasn't enough the customs officer went into the galley to get a few bottles of instant coffee and creamer before he left.

Perhaps he's a devout buddhist and doesn't drink alcohol ...

[SCARLETIBIS1]

I will believe this, when I see it. The customs department is about as corrupt as the police. Here is a recent post from one of

my thai corruption rants:

This is one of those posts that gets right to the heart of an issue that seems to really bother alot of ex-pats, who are

exposed to the corruption here. I have read many of the replies, and there seems to be a sense of resignation. How

can anything change? Well, it is changing throughout the region. Malaysia, Indonesia, India, and Vietnam are making

serious efforts to root out the corruption. Officials, CEO's, and people in positions of authority and power are getting

arrested, and sentenced. Of course, that seems almost impossible here, but I do hope it happens. I guess the aspect that

is not getting mentioned much, is why Thailand has so little interest in addressing it's staggering level of corruption. Malaysia

has set up a corruption commission, and is making DAILY arrests of top officials, ministers, local politicians, and businessmen. Indonesia

has set up a corruption commission, and so far their antigraft commission has achieved a 100-percent conviction rate in 86 cases of bribery

and graft related to government procurements and budgets. And where is Thailand in all of this. Why aren't men like Newin, and others, who

are coming up with expensive schemes to line their pockets being arrested, and tried? Why is the CEO of King Power still employed? Why is the

Police Captain in charge of the airport security, who appears to be involved in the King Power scam, still in his position? Does anyone really think

there is even a chance that the King Power scheme is not real? That they are arresting only guilty shoplifters? Does all King Power have to do is

post one video on the internet, of a guilty party, for all of us to let them off the hook? Is that all it takes? Even India is getting actively involved

in tackling corruption. When was the last time we heard of a government minister, or top official, or corporate CEO being arrested on corruption charges,

here in Thailand? There was a recent story of jet ski operators in Koh Samui, extorting $1,000's of dollars out of tourists, with the threat of,

and occasionally acts of violence, right on the beach in front of dozens of tourists, for supposedly getting a scratch on a jet ski. When one tourist

caught this on video, and presented it to the authorities, the culprits were confronted, and forced to a pay a fine of 1,000 baht! I am sure they

have not stopped laughing since the incident. Unless Thailand gets serious, and starts introducing fines and jail sentenced that are in proportion

to the crime, nobody will take them seriously. Thailand will continue to be the laughing stock of the world. They will continue to be considered

"that 3rd world country with so much promise, that could not do ANYTHING, to help itself". Or, "the country that always shoots itself in the foot".

Thailand is rapidly approching a point of being way past redemption. If nobody does something truly gutsy or courageous, the time will pass, for

Thailand to turn things around. History may show Thailand as having achieved it's greatest apex of development in 2000-2005. History may show

it being all downhill from there. The Thai people nor the Thai government seem to have no realization of how serious things are, and how perilous a

time this is for the nation. Very, very, very few people here seem to get it. A country can only make so many mistakes before the world leaves it

behind. Especially when neighbors like Malaysia, Vietnam, India, Indonesia, and others are making so much progress, and trying so hard. This makes

the lack of effort here seem all the more staggering, and shocking. Someone needs to act. So what if jobs are lost. So what if heads roll. So what if

people in power are humiliated, and their lives are ruined. So what. It is not too late for Thailand, but the time when it is, is rapidly approaching. Change

is hard. Progress is difficult. But, not impossible. Thailand is not beyond redemption. There are many good people here who would like to see things

different. Conviction, with fines of 500,000 baht and up, and jail terms of 5-10 years is a good place to start. Tony, of course would be a great example

for a first conviction. I would suggest a fine of 2,000,000 baht, and a jail term of 20 years for him. He deserves it. He earned it.

17 Aug 2009

So, the real question is, who in the government is prepared to grow a set of balls big enough to tackle a problem that is holding Thailand firmly

locked into 3rd world status? Abhisit? Who else could do it?

All Governments are corrupt to a certain extent. It actuality the lobbying of politicians in the USA is corruption, it has just ingrained itself into the system. I suspect the Thai government is no different. You cannot have a non-corrupt government. Obama has standing orders not to hire any past lobbyist for government work and it is not working --they are the only people who are experienced enough to get anything done. There several hundred positions he cannot fill.

Instead of picking on Thailand maybe look at your home country --England for example just went through a whole series of news breaking corruption--MP's misusing fund for personal use. It is not that I agree with corruption it is just that is it never goes away. But yes I ham happy when a they are stripped of their "ways and means" but it is usually just a scapegoat for the rest who are never touched. Wall Street and the bank boys rip off the world everyday -yet a common thief or a simple drug user go to a prison for a long time --we never see the real bastards in there.

I find it extremely interesting that when someone points out the obvious a Thai supporter invariably says, "go look at your own country". What he really means to say is, "hey, we know we are flucking you foreigners over but so what, you can't do anything about it." "And not only that, but since there are NO LAWS in this country that are enforced unless we can take a bribe we don't care about what you think". "And not only that but since we don't give a fluck what you do think we will take the bribe right in front of you or the newspapers or TV or any other international outlet." "And not only that but even though we look stupid and corrupt in the eyes of the world we don't care what we look like because in the end the money goes in our bank accounts."

One day a few months ago I went to the UBS office to order satellite service. While I was there I jokingly said to the Thai manager why can't you people get your internet problems fixed? He smiled and said, "because no one wants to pay the minister enough money to do it". And this is from a THAI person.

One last jab at you my fellow Thai visa buddy. Contrary to what you said, all governments are NOT corrupt but of course many government workers are corrupt including those in England and the USA. The difference is that when those bastards get caught they can't bribe some 50 cent an hour policeman or politician to get out of it. Here, everyone knows it is just a matter of bribing the correct individual.

And the joke is it seems endemic to the way of life here. It seems acceptable. At the end of the day in my mind everyone no matter what country in the world you live in you know what is the right thing to do and the wrong thing to do most all of the time. It just seems to me as an objective observer that the government and politicians and business operators here in the "Land of smiles" always go down the dark alley.

I wonder how many other acronyms we could think of for LOS? How about Land of Scams or Land of ....

But let's all keep in mind that the average Thai individual could not be nicer or friendlier.

One last point to the guy who said you could bribe someone at the Dept of Motor Vehicles to get a license. Please contact me. I tried but could not do it. Actually, they gave me a license to drive a car but I failed the written exam for the bike three times. I kept on getting questions like, Which of these is illegal in Thailand? A) Driving a car with a broken windshield or Driving a tank down the highway? Well, I guessed B.

The tank you all see driving down the Superhighway is mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wilsongbrown]

A good start would be a crackdown on the traffic Department who for the right money will issue a drivers licence without even a test . This would ensure that at least potential drivers would have to prove they understand road rules and can actually drive. This may reduce the number of road deaths in Thailand and also reduce the road rage of foreigners who observe the abuse of traffic laws.

No it doesn't. Phuket Traffic Department WILL ABSOLUTELY NOT take tea money in lieu of a test and it's done nothing here to lessen the daily carnage on Phuket's roads. I don't know what on earth was said to them to make them stop at least five years ago, but if it works at that one department, it can work at all of them.

As an aside, I told the a local cop the only way to reduce the death toll here was an enforceable speed limit. He told me speed cameras were too expensive. So daily death toll isn't?

[cbrick]

I will believe this, when I see it. The customs department is about as corrupt as the police. Here is a recent post from one of

my thai corruption rants:

This is one of those posts that gets right to the heart of an issue that seems to really bother alot of ex-pats, who are

exposed to the corruption here. I have read many of the replies, and there seems to be a sense of resignation. How

can anything change? Well, it is changing throughout the region. Malaysia, Indonesia, India, and Vietnam are making

serious efforts to root out the corruption. Officials, CEO's, and people in positions of authority and power are getting

arrested, and sentenced. Of course, that seems almost impossible here, but I do hope it happens. I guess the aspect that

is not getting mentioned much, is why Thailand has so little interest in addressing it's staggering level of corruption. Malaysia

has set up a corruption commission, and is making DAILY arrests of top officials, ministers, local politicians, and businessmen. Indonesia

has set up a corruption commission, and so far their antigraft commission has achieved a 100-percent conviction rate in 86 cases of bribery

and graft related to government procurements and budgets. And where is Thailand in all of this. Why aren't men like Newin, and others, who

are coming up with expensive schemes to line their pockets being arrested, and tried? Why is the CEO of King Power still employed? Why is the

Police Captain in charge of the airport security, who appears to be involved in the King Power scam, still in his position? Does anyone really think

there is even a chance that the King Power scheme is not real? That they are arresting only guilty shoplifters? Does all King Power have to do is

post one video on the internet, of a guilty party, for all of us to let them off the hook? Is that all it takes? Even India is getting actively involved

in tackling corruption. When was the last time we heard of a government minister, or top official, or corporate CEO being arrested on corruption charges,

here in Thailand? There was a recent story of jet ski operators in Koh Samui, extorting $1,000's of dollars out of tourists, with the threat of,

and occasionally acts of violence, right on the beach in front of dozens of tourists, for supposedly getting a scratch on a jet ski. When one tourist

caught this on video, and presented it to the authorities, the culprits were confronted, and forced to a pay a fine of 1,000 baht! I am sure they

have not stopped laughing since the incident. Unless Thailand gets serious, and starts introducing fines and jail sentenced that are in proportion

to the crime, nobody will take them seriously. Thailand will continue to be the laughing stock of the world. They will continue to be considered

"that 3rd world country with so much promise, that could not do ANYTHING, to help itself". Or, "the country that always shoots itself in the foot".

Thailand is rapidly approching a point of being way past redemption. If nobody does something truly gutsy or courageous, the time will pass, for

Thailand to turn things around. History may show Thailand as having achieved it's greatest apex of development in 2000-2005. History may show

it being all downhill from there. The Thai people nor the Thai government seem to have no realization of how serious things are, and how perilous a

time this is for the nation. Very, very, very few people here seem to get it. A country can only make so many mistakes before the world leaves it

behind. Especially when neighbors like Malaysia, Vietnam, India, Indonesia, and others are making so much progress, and trying so hard. This makes

the lack of effort here seem all the more staggering, and shocking. Someone needs to act. So what if jobs are lost. So what if heads roll. So what if

people in power are humiliated, and their lives are ruined. So what. It is not too late for Thailand, but the time when it is, is rapidly approaching. Change

is hard. Progress is difficult. But, not impossible. Thailand is not beyond redemption. There are many good people here who would like to see things

different. Conviction, with fines of 500,000 baht and up, and jail terms of 5-10 years is a good place to start. Tony, of course would be a great example

for a first conviction. I would suggest a fine of 2,000,000 baht, and a jail term of 20 years for him. He deserves it. He earned it.

17 Aug 2009

So, the real question is, who in the government is prepared to grow a set of balls big enough to tackle a problem that is holding Thailand firmly

locked into 3rd world status? Abhisit? Who else could do it?

All Governments are corrupt to a certain extent. It actuality the lobbying of politicians in the USA is corruption, it has just ingrained itself into the system. I suspect the Thai government is no different. You cannot have a non-corrupt government. Obama has standing orders not to hire any past lobbyist for government work and it is not working --they are the only people who are experienced enough to get anything done. There several hundred positions he cannot fill.

Instead of picking on Thailand maybe look at your home country --England for example just went through a whole series of news breaking corruption--MP's misusing fund for personal use. It is not that I agree with corruption it is just that is it never goes away. But yes I ham happy when a they are stripped of their "ways and means" but it is usually just a scapegoat for the rest who are never touched. Wall Street and the bank boys rip off the world everyday -yet a common thief or a simple drug user go to a prison for a long time --we never see the real bastards in there.

Thanks for stating the obvious, genius! Your "tu quoque" approach, in my opinion, isn't constructive one bit. Illogical criticism however well-written is still a mere expletive.

[SCARLETIBIS1]

I see the "glass is half empty crowd" arrived early, and has their mouth watering! The PM seems to have high minded ideals, and that in and of itself is a step in the right direction. It takes time to change things, and I think that if given the time, some things here will start to improve. That applies perhaps to Thailand's government, but certainly not to the vulture brigade here on TV, lol.

Gee, I wonder why the glass is half empty? Could it be, A) Some corrupt official drank half of it or Some corrupt official drank half of it?

If you get the above answer correct you have a right to: A) Apply for a job as a policeman, Apply for a job as a politician, C) Apply for a job as a businessman, or D) All of the above

Edited August 20, 2009 by SCARLETIBIS1

[Mercury]

I agree that Thailand is losing out because I once investigated a business requiring import and it was impossible to get any straight answers and it was made clear that money, cash bribes or equivalent, from my import order, would be required. You cannot do business with thieves like that.

[ThaiFelix]

I will believe this, when I see it. The customs department is about as corrupt as the police. Here is a recent post from one of

my thai corruption rants:

This is one of those posts that gets right to the heart of an issue that seems to really bother alot of ex-pats, who are

exposed to the corruption here. I have read many of the replies, and there seems to be a sense of resignation. How

can anything change? Well, it is changing throughout the region. Malaysia, Indonesia, India, and Vietnam are making

serious efforts to root out the corruption. Officials, CEO's, and people in positions of authority and power are getting

arrested, and sentenced. Of course, that seems almost impossible here, but I do hope it happens. I guess the aspect that

is not getting mentioned much, is why Thailand has so little interest in addressing it's staggering level of corruption. Malaysia

has set up a corruption commission, and is making DAILY arrests of top officials, ministers, local politicians, and businessmen. Indonesia

has set up a corruption commission, and so far their antigraft commission has achieved a 100-percent conviction rate in 86 cases of bribery

and graft related to government procurements and budgets. And where is Thailand in all of this. Why aren't men like Newin, and others, who

are coming up with expensive schemes to line their pockets being arrested, and tried? Why is the CEO of King Power still employed? Why is the

Police Captain in charge of the airport security, who appears to be involved in the King Power scam, still in his position? Does anyone really think

there is even a chance that the King Power scheme is not real? That they are arresting only guilty shoplifters? Does all King Power have to do is

post one video on the internet, of a guilty party, for all of us to let them off the hook? Is that all it takes? Even India is getting actively involved

in tackling corruption. When was the last time we heard of a government minister, or top official, or corporate CEO being arrested on corruption charges,

here in Thailand? There was a recent story of jet ski operators in Koh Samui, extorting $1,000's of dollars out of tourists, with the threat of,

and occasionally acts of violence, right on the beach in front of dozens of tourists, for supposedly getting a scratch on a jet ski. When one tourist

caught this on video, and presented it to the authorities, the culprits were confronted, and forced to a pay a fine of 1,000 baht! I am sure they

have not stopped laughing since the incident. Unless Thailand gets serious, and starts introducing fines and jail sentenced that are in proportion

to the crime, nobody will take them seriously. Thailand will continue to be the laughing stock of the world. They will continue to be considered

"that 3rd world country with so much promise, that could not do ANYTHING, to help itself". Or, "the country that always shoots itself in the foot".

Thailand is rapidly approching a point of being way past redemption. If nobody does something truly gutsy or courageous, the time will pass, for

Thailand to turn things around. History may show Thailand as having achieved it's greatest apex of development in 2000-2005. History may show

it being all downhill from there. The Thai people nor the Thai government seem to have no realization of how serious things are, and how perilous a

time this is for the nation. Very, very, very few people here seem to get it. A country can only make so many mistakes before the world leaves it

behind. Especially when neighbors like Malaysia, Vietnam, India, Indonesia, and others are making so much progress, and trying so hard. This makes

the lack of effort here seem all the more staggering, and shocking. Someone needs to act. So what if jobs are lost. So what if heads roll. So what if

people in power are humiliated, and their lives are ruined. So what. It is not too late for Thailand, but the time when it is, is rapidly approaching. Change

is hard. Progress is difficult. But, not impossible. Thailand is not beyond redemption. There are many good people here who would like to see things

different. Conviction, with fines of 500,000 baht and up, and jail terms of 5-10 years is a good place to start. Tony, of course would be a great example

for a first conviction. I would suggest a fine of 2,000,000 baht, and a jail term of 20 years for him. He deserves it. He earned it.

17 Aug 2009

So, the real question is, who in the government is prepared to grow a set of balls big enough to tackle a problem that is holding Thailand firmly

locked into 3rd world status? Abhisit? Who else could do it?

All Governments are corrupt to a certain extent. It actuality the lobbying of politicians in the USA is corruption, it has just ingrained itself into the system. I suspect the Thai government is no different. You cannot have a non-corrupt government. Obama has standing orders not to hire any past lobbyist for government work and it is not working --they are the only people who are experienced enough to get anything done. There several hundred positions he cannot fill.

Instead of picking on Thailand maybe look at your home country --England for example just went through a whole series of news breaking corruption--MP's misusing fund for personal use. It is not that I agree with corruption it is just that is it never goes away. But yes I ham happy when a they are stripped of their "ways and means" but it is usually just a scapegoat for the rest who are never touched. Wall Street and the bank boys rip off the world everyday -yet a common thief or a simple drug user go to a prison for a long time --we never see the real bastards in there.

You both make some very relevant points...interesting reading thanks. However, I do feel that maybe this time they are trying to reduce corruption. In this day and age the internet is responsible for rapid dissemination of information to the rest of the world..such as the new airport construction scandal, the duty free shop scams, the oh so many coloured shirt people and their actions etc etc. Thailand is becoming more aware of its image (especially in these trying financial times) and finally realising something has to be done.

After all, they did get rid of Mr corruption himself (well almost, he's still clawing at the gunnels and disturbing the boats stability but he'll soon tire and let go).

[SCARLETIBIS1]

I will believe this, when I see it. The customs department is about as corrupt as the police. Here is a recent post from one of

my thai corruption rants:

This is one of those posts that gets right to the heart of an issue that seems to really bother alot of ex-pats, who are

exposed to the corruption here. I have read many of the replies, and there seems to be a sense of resignation. How

can anything change? Well, it is changing throughout the region. Malaysia, Indonesia, India, and Vietnam are making

serious efforts to root out the corruption. Officials, CEO's, and people in positions of authority and power are getting

arrested, and sentenced. Of course, that seems almost impossible here, but I do hope it happens. I guess the aspect that

is not getting mentioned much, is why Thailand has so little interest in addressing it's staggering level of corruption. Malaysia

has set up a corruption commission, and is making DAILY arrests of top officials, ministers, local politicians, and businessmen. Indonesia

has set up a corruption commission, and so far their antigraft commission has achieved a 100-percent conviction rate in 86 cases of bribery

and graft related to government procurements and budgets. And where is Thailand in all of this. Why aren't men like Newin, and others, who

are coming up with expensive schemes to line their pockets being arrested, and tried? Why is the CEO of King Power still employed? Why is the

Police Captain in charge of the airport security, who appears to be involved in the King Power scam, still in his position? Does anyone really think

there is even a chance that the King Power scheme is not real? That they are arresting only guilty shoplifters? Does all King Power have to do is

post one video on the internet, of a guilty party, for all of us to let them off the hook? Is that all it takes? Even India is getting actively involved

in tackling corruption. When was the last time we heard of a government minister, or top official, or corporate CEO being arrested on corruption charges,

here in Thailand? There was a recent story of jet ski operators in Koh Samui, extorting $1,000's of dollars out of tourists, with the threat of,

and occasionally acts of violence, right on the beach in front of dozens of tourists, for supposedly getting a scratch on a jet ski. When one tourist

caught this on video, and presented it to the authorities, the culprits were confronted, and forced to a pay a fine of 1,000 baht! I am sure they

have not stopped laughing since the incident. Unless Thailand gets serious, and starts introducing fines and jail sentenced that are in proportion

to the crime, nobody will take them seriously. Thailand will continue to be the laughing stock of the world. They will continue to be considered

"that 3rd world country with so much promise, that could not do ANYTHING, to help itself". Or, "the country that always shoots itself in the foot".

Thailand is rapidly approching a point of being way past redemption. If nobody does something truly gutsy or courageous, the time will pass, for

Thailand to turn things around. History may show Thailand as having achieved it's greatest apex of development in 2000-2005. History may show

it being all downhill from there. The Thai people nor the Thai government seem to have no realization of how serious things are, and how perilous a

time this is for the nation. Very, very, very few people here seem to get it. A country can only make so many mistakes before the world leaves it

behind. Especially when neighbors like Malaysia, Vietnam, India, Indonesia, and others are making so much progress, and trying so hard. This makes

the lack of effort here seem all the more staggering, and shocking. Someone needs to act. So what if jobs are lost. So what if heads roll. So what if

people in power are humiliated, and their lives are ruined. So what. It is not too late for Thailand, but the time when it is, is rapidly approaching. Change

is hard. Progress is difficult. But, not impossible. Thailand is not beyond redemption. There are many good people here who would like to see things

different. Conviction, with fines of 500,000 baht and up, and jail terms of 5-10 years is a good place to start. Tony, of course would be a great example

for a first conviction. I would suggest a fine of 2,000,000 baht, and a jail term of 20 years for him. He deserves it. He earned it.

17 Aug 2009

So, the real question is, who in the government is prepared to grow a set of balls big enough to tackle a problem that is holding Thailand firmly

locked into 3rd world status? Abhisit? Who else could do it?

All Governments are corrupt to a certain extent. It actuality the lobbying of politicians in the USA is corruption, it has just ingrained itself into the system. I suspect the Thai government is no different. You cannot have a non-corrupt government. Obama has standing orders not to hire any past lobbyist for government work and it is not working --they are the only people who are experienced enough to get anything done. There several hundred positions he cannot fill.

Instead of picking on Thailand maybe look at your home country --England for example just went through a whole series of news breaking corruption--MP's misusing fund for personal use. It is not that I agree with corruption it is just that is it never goes away. But yes I ham happy when a they are stripped of their "ways and means" but it is usually just a scapegoat for the rest who are never touched. Wall Street and the bank boys rip off the world everyday -yet a common thief or a simple drug user go to a prison for a long time --we never see the real bastards in there.

Thanks for stating the obvious, genius! Your "tu quoque" approach, in my opinion, isn't constructive one bit. Illogical criticism however well-written is still a mere expletive.

Hey, I didn't state the obvious the previous post did and he did it quite well. Your one sentence defense of corruption is not a winner. And since when is the reality of corruption, "illogical" reality. Come on, it is what it is.

And just as an adjunct who gives a rat's ass what a farong thinks in terms of "constructive" criticism. Are you suggesting I send a letter to the PM and say something like, Ah, excuse me Mr PM but did you know that the police are setting up road blocks to ticket people with no helmuts during certain hours of the day but the rest of the day they ignore you. I would just like to make a "constructive" suggestion to you that you could make a whole lot more money to do it all day long. That way all the corrupt individuals involved could retire a lot sooner. Is that the type of constructive approach you suggest?

Edited August 20, 2009 by SCARLETIBIS1

[tim73]

The difference is that when those bastards get caught they can't bribe some 50 cent an hour policeman or politician to get out of it. Here, everyone knows it is just a matter of bribing the correct individual.

Yeah, sure. Like the Madoff case, he gets 150 years and NOBODY else is punished in that MASSIVE case of fraud?! Mafia killers with multiple murders go free and get into witness protection system if they are able to pinpoint some higher crook. Wow, that is justice. Whopping 70 percent of all lawyers in the world are American. People suing companies and each others for spilling hot coffee or ruining one's suit in a laundry. Then getting millions of dollars?! Wall Street crooks are still running amok and NOBODY is throwing them into jail?!

In one case parents sued a kindergarten nanny because she dared to touch their child's shoulders when he was crying. Now American kindergartens advice newcomers NOT to touch the children with their hands without child's PERMISSION because parents might sue them for paedophilia?! One 5-year-old was handcuffed due to this because kindergarten nannies were afraid to constrain him and called the police. How f*cked up is that?!

One should not throw stones in a glass house...

Edited August 20, 2009 by tim73

[lannarebirth]

I'm captain on a chemical tanker and recently called Mapthaput, after Argentina I think Thailand is the 2nd worst country in the world when it comes to customs. The port call cost me 12 bottles of whiskey and 2000 cigaretts just to get the ship cleared, not to mention all the several hundreds of papers needed, In other countries it is usually enough with 10-20 papers to clear the ship.

And if that wasn't enough the customs officer went into the galley to get a few bottles of instant coffee and creamer before he left.

What's the bite for a Suez passage these days?

[dude007]

I personally haven't been hassled by Thai customs too much over the years (less, in fact, than than by U.S. customs) and have certainly brought my share of stuff in without paying duty.

It's the only country I've ever checked into by boat though where the official customs form had a space for declaring the number of taels of opium aboard so it is probably overdue for some modernization.

That is not the kind of experience I had with the customs when importing my personal effects. It cosseted me more money for bringing the personal effects from the port along the Chao Phraya (somewhere in Samut Prakan at the right river bank) to my house in downtown Bangkok than to ship the same goods from Europe to the port of Bangkok... No way the customs accepted "personal effects" (exempt from import taxes) and kept my belongings for several days in their warehouses (storage fees to pay per day). When I did not bend (they claimed that "personal household" were not the same as "personal effects"... what the f@ is the difference), they charged me all sorts of fees (amongst others "inspection fee", what I personally see as part of their genuine customs tasks, but which in fact is a fee that you better pay if you do want to avoid inspection of your personal belongings!) and finally, as I refused to pay any import taxes, they opened every single paper-box inside the wooden chests and created a mess of my personal belongings never seen before (as they could not find anything wrong in my packing list). When the goods arrived at my house I wanted to refuse them and send them back with the request to pack them properly again... sweet revenge from the Customs for NOT paying import taxes...

My letter of complaint was never answered! Why complain? I got my personal belonging free of import taxes... (sic)

[k1w1]

After all, they did get rid of Mr corruption himself (well almost, he's still clawing at the gunnels and disturbing the boats stability but he'll soon tire and let go).

He won't let go until he dies...

He's just licking some wounds and laying relatively low until the inevitable power vacuum arrives.

[SCARLETIBIS1]

The difference is that when those bastards get caught they can't bribe some 50 cent an hour policeman or politician to get out of it. Here, everyone knows it is just a matter of bribing the correct individual.

Yeah, sure. Like the Madoff case, he gets 150 years and NOBODY else is punished in that MASSIVE case of fraud?! Mafia killers with multiple murders go free and get into witness protection system if they are able to pinpoint some higher crook. Wow, that is justice. Whopping 70 percent of all lawyers in the world are American. People suing companies and each others for spilling hot coffee or ruining one's suit in a laundry. Then getting millions of dollars?! Wall Street crooks are still running amok and NOBODY is throwing them into jail?!

In one case parents sued a kindergarten nanny because she dared to touch their child's shoulders when he was crying. Now American kindergartens advice newcomers NOT to touch the children with their hands without child's PERMISSION because parents might sue them for paedophilia?! One 5-year-old was handcuffed due to this because kindergarten nannies were afraid to constrain him and called the police. How f*cked up is that?!

One should not throw stones in a glass house...

Ah, excuse me. Did I miss something here? Madoff broke the law, finally got caught and got a 150 year sentance. Sounds to me that you have made my point for me. He wasn't able to pay somebody off. Sure, a lot of crooks get off scot free but at least in those other decadent countries like England and the USA they have laws that if you break them you take the risk of going to jail for a long time.

Here it appears that there is little or no risk if you have enough money to pay someone. If you cannot understand the difference the argument is pointless to proceed on. And I have to run now as I am triple parked in front of and behind some other motorbikes and I sure as hel_l don't want to get a ticket. LOL

Actually, I am blocked in by those incessant idiot Thai motorcyclists and can't get my bike out but hey stupidity is a different topic right??

[wilsongbrown]

and so the waffling goes on ... If.Something.Was.Said.Or.Done.To.Stop.Tea.Money.Being.Taken.At.A.Large.Governmen

t.Department.ie.The.Traffic. Department.In.Phuket. It stands to reason that whatever was said or done, yes, right here in Thailand! can.be.said.or.done.at.every.bloody.government.department.in.the.kingdom.

or am I interrupting just another mindless rant on this forum...? As you were. Natch.

[SCARLETIBIS1]

A few years back I imported my stuff to thailand with no work permit so no duty exemption. Because of a fundamentalist's zeal never to pay bribes I ended up having dealings a number of middle ranking customs officers of head off any issues before my stuff arrived.

Both these officers who were earning about 22,500 B per month, but had paid 4 million B for their last promotions. The only other people I know who have had to buy their positions are in the police and land office. This gives those affected a sense of moral entitlement to expect bribes and partake in extortion rackets after all they have paid for the privilege and how else are they going to get their investment back.

Unless this issue is resolved any attempts to clean up these departments is going fail. Its clearly possible, I have been told that 20-30 years ago the whole civil service was like this; one big extortion racket you paid to join.

Just curious but how does an official who is making 22,500 baht a month acquire 4,000,000 baht so that he can get a promotion to a new position which will allow him to accept bribes unless he himself was accepting bribes in his other position?

Is there a Dept of Bribery somewhere that makes loans??? If there is such a governmental department the guy who thought of that scam gets my Thai "Hutzpah", award vote of approval.

Edited August 20, 2009 by SCARLETIBIS1

[SCARLETIBIS1]

The difference is that when those bastards get caught they can't bribe some 50 cent an hour policeman or politician to get out of it. Here, everyone knows it is just a matter of bribing the correct individual.

Yeah, sure. Like the Madoff case, he gets 150 years and NOBODY else is punished in that MASSIVE case of fraud?! Mafia killers with multiple murders go free and get into witness protection system if they are able to pinpoint some higher crook. Wow, that is justice. Whopping 70 percent of all lawyers in the world are American. People suing companies and each others for spilling hot coffee or ruining one's suit in a laundry. Then getting millions of dollars?! Wall Street crooks are still running amok and NOBODY is throwing them into jail?!

In one case parents sued a kindergarten nanny because she dared to touch their child's shoulders when he was crying. Now American kindergartens advice newcomers NOT to touch the children with their hands without child's PERMISSION because parents might sue them for paedophilia?! One 5-year-old was handcuffed due to this because kindergarten nannies were afraid to constrain him and called the police. How f*cked up is that?!

One should not throw stones in a glass house...

Ah, excuse me. Did I miss something here? Madoff broke the law, finally got caught and got a 150 year sentance. Sounds to me that you have made my point for me. He wasn't able to pay somebody off. Sure, a lot of crooks get off scot free but at least in those other decadent countries like England and the USA they have laws that if you break them you take the risk of going to jail for a long time.

Here it appears that there is little or no risk if you have enough money to pay someone. If you cannot understand the difference the argument is pointless to proceed on. And I have to run now as I am triple parked in front of and behind some other motorbikes and I sure as hel_l don't want to get a ticket. LOL

Actually, I am blocked in by those incessant idiot Thai motorcyclists and can't get my bike out but hey stupidity is a different topic right??

Just to let everyone who was concerned about me and my bike that I was able to find a nice, friendly policeman to watch it for me in case another polieman came by to ticket me. Cost: 100 baht. Ah, I take it all back. This is a great place. You can't do that in countries that have laws.

[john b good]

All the "negative vibrations" on this post are understandable.

Many of us know and felt what tea money really means, for farang and Thai.

However, the fact someone in Government seems to know that the, may I call it the mess in customs, gives a mighty doses of loss of face for Thailand.

Moreover a strain on business relations with companies, governments and private people abroad

Maybe, just maybe, this means that indeed the problems are starting to be recognised, and also the need for change.

Let us hope, for the Thai people, change is on it's way.

If no change will come, and soon, Thailand will indeed become the laughing stock of all the neighbours that are surpassing this country.

I really hope so.

Thailand is already the laughing stock of all countries in the world (with the possible exception of the other banana republics)

Thailand will not changed in your, your childrens or your grand childrens lifetimes.

Thailand does not have the will or the commitment necessary to do anything about corruption (of any description) reduction of the road toll, enforcement of road traffic speed limits, corruption at the land office.

No where will it change and only some knucklehead would even suggest that the blame lies with Abhisit or the Democrat party.

Corruption is a way of life in the realm and nothing is going to change in our lifetime.

I don't accept (don't like it) but will stay here. If I say more I will be banned for life from TV

If you really cannot accept it get yourself a one way ticket out of the LOL (land of lies)

I only stay here becasue it suits my circumstances "and I ain't a fugitive, nor a drug runner, or anything else. And I am not a kiddie fiddler.

But it suits me to stay, BUT, I am seriously considering just how long I will be prepared (or able) to endure.

Edited August 20, 2009 by john b good

[C5VETTE]

I'm captain on a chemical tanker and recently called Mapthaput, after Argentina I think Thailand is the 2nd worst country in the world when it comes to customs. The port call cost me 12 bottles of whiskey and 2000 cigaretts just to get the ship cleared, not to mention all the several hundreds of papers needed, In other countries it is usually enough with 10-20 papers to clear the ship.

And if that wasn't enough the customs officer went into the galley to get a few bottles of instant coffee and creamer before he left.

What's the bite for a Suez passage these days?

You can go through Suez without giving any "gifts" but it isn't recommended because you are going to have problems the next time. Normally I would say around 2000 cigarettes to make most of them happy.

The big difference is the amount of papers needed for Thailand.

[tim73]

Just to let everyone who was concerned about me and my bike that I was able to find a nice, friendly policeman to watch it for me in case another polieman came by to ticket me. Cost: 100 baht. Ah, I take it all back. This is a great place. You can't do that in countries that have laws.

In-your-face and with whisky OR indirect expensive corruption western style...pick your poison

[chefshane]

Has there been any recent incidents involving travellers carrying laptops etc for their own personal use being hassled by customs staff on arrival? I would not react well to this kind of shakedown.

Good question yes.. ?

Never any questions - or searches, on my 30 or so trips in and out.

I have had zero issues.

Ditto Dubai and Europe.

Lots of headaches with overzealous Australian customs though. And Kazakhstan was a nightmare.

For personal travellers, no change.

A positive move for business though

[Dakhar]

As a past victim of the Customs Deptartment I say it's about time!!I just hope it's not all show and no go and that these crooks are not just reassigned somewhere. In Xiamen, China the corrupt guy that headed the Customs Department there was convicted and executed. Maybe the Chinese have the right idea!!!

That is the difference between honor and face. To honor a country, you do not engage in activities that will bring it down, Face, on the other hand... it just smoke and mirrors