German Engineer Killed By Bomb In Chon Buri

[manarak]

well, I see it on the right photo but not on the left one!

allow me to post an enlargement:

[SHYTALK]

well, I see it on the right photo but not on the left one!

allow me to post an enlargement:

Yes, it looks like the loop in the cord gives an impression of increase in width on the smaller picture.

But dont know why the two pieces of cord have the join in them.

[jpolten]

Sorry i haven't read the whole tread and i don't have time to.....first i read that it was c4 and now its a grenade...which is it???

The photos are of an old style grenade pin and striker...the other is an unused detonator used mostly for plastics

they use something simple like a spent cartridge as a primer detonator for IED's in iraq and afgan that can be detonated by mobile phone!

The grenade could have came from anywhere,but i think that detonator can not be easily found (unless you know someone)

Do they really think its suicide??

[LaoPo]

Sorry i haven't read the whole tread and i don't have time to.....first i read that it was c4 and now its a grenade...which is it???

The photos are of an old style grenade pin and striker...the other is an unused detonator used mostly for plastics

they use something simple like a spent cartridge as a primer detonator for IED's in iraq and afgan that can be detonated by mobile phone!

The grenade could have came from anywhere,but i think that detonator can not be easily found (unless you know someone)

Do they really think its suicide??

Thanks for your interesting input. The latest info the police gave out is that a grenade was used and not C4 explosives.

Interesting that you say that a mobile phone is able to detonate this type primer detonator on this type of grenade!

What are your thoughts about the primer/detonation cord which is shown on the photos ? Why was that cord there (on the photo?)

Suicide ? hmmmm....who would kill himself like that; looks complicated to me.

Why would he take detonation cord if he would want to kill himself ?

Removing the clip would have been enough.....to kill himself, right ?...booooommmm...so: why the cord ?

LaoPo

[Domanter]

This Killer is very violent, the police must get this guy ASAP. Too bad the police that my dad knows are in the South and in Bangkok so they can't do anything much about it.

[quiksilva]

I understand (from too many Special Forces books that I have read) that det cord burns extremely quickly but at a predictable rate, thus creating a very precise explosion pattern. It is often used in demolitions. It can wrapped around say a column or tree, that needs to be cut down.

Special forces like it because its so precise and very versatile.

Det cord could have been arranged around the body so as to ensure that identifiable features would be destroyed.

The question then arises if they had det cord, there really wouldn't be any need for additional explosives to get the job done other than to send a message, or perhaps to send the investigators off on a wild goose chase.

[jpolten]

Sorry i haven't read the whole tread and i don't have time to.....first i read that it was c4 and now its a grenade...which is it???

The photos are of an old style grenade pin and striker...the other is an unused detonator used mostly for plastics

they use something simple like a spent cartridge as a primer detonator for IED's in iraq and afgan that can be detonated by mobile phone!

The grenade could have came from anywhere,but i think that detonator can not be easily found (unless you know someone)

Do they really think its suicide??

Thanks for your interesting input. The latest info the police gave out is that a grenade was used and not C4 explosives.

Interesting that you say that a mobile phone is able to detonate this type primer detonator on this type of grenade!

What are your thoughts about the primer/detonation cord which is shown on the photos ? Why was that cord there (on the photo?)

Suicide ? hmmmm....who would kill himself like that; looks complicated to me.

Why would he take detonation cord if he would want to kill himself ?

Removing the clip would have been enough.....to kill himself, right ?...booooommmm...so: why the cord ?

LaoPo

Agree with you (no way it was suicide) there's easier ways to do that!

If you wanted to remote detonate the grenade you would have to remove the original detonator and striker (both connected and simply unscrew)

and replace with a detonator (like in photo) using wiring(maybe in photo),phone and a few other things (that im not going to get into) could

easily be detonated remotely!!

Its not rocket science but you do need a little know how which makes this look very fishy,why all the wiring?(if suicide just pull the pin)

I know those detonators are not easy to obtain(but it is thailand) and the one in the photo was NOT used (its brand new) if it was used it wouldn't be there!

[LaoPo]

Sorry i haven't read the whole tread and i don't have time to.....first i read that it was c4 and now its a grenade...which is it???

The photos are of an old style grenade pin and striker...the other is an unused detonator used mostly for plastics

they use something simple like a spent cartridge as a primer detonator for IED's in iraq and afgan that can be detonated by mobile phone!

The grenade could have came from anywhere,but i think that detonator can not be easily found (unless you know someone)

Do they really think its suicide??

Thanks for your interesting input. The latest info the police gave out is that a grenade was used and not C4 explosives.

Interesting that you say that a mobile phone is able to detonate this type primer detonator on this type of grenade!

What are your thoughts about the primer/detonation cord which is shown on the photos ? Why was that cord there (on the photo?)

Suicide ? hmmmm....who would kill himself like that; looks complicated to me.

Why would he take detonation cord if he would want to kill himself ?

Removing the clip would have been enough.....to kill himself, right ?...booooommmm...so: why the cord ?

LaoPo

Agree with you (no way it was suicide) there's easier ways to do that!

If you wanted to remote detonate the grenade you would have to remove the original detonator and striker (both connected and simply unscrew)

and replace with a detonator (like in photo) using wiring(maybe in photo),phone and a few other things (that im not going to get into) could

easily be detonated remotely!!

Its not rocket science but you do need a little know how which makes this look very fishy,why all the wiring?(if suicide just pull the pin)

I know those detonators are not easy to obtain(but it is thailand) and the one in the photo was NOT used (its brand new) if it was used it wouldn't be there!

The question is: do day-to-day policemen in a countryside police station know all this; do they have the same experience as a few of you guys ?

If they don't/didn't ask for assistance of military investigators or weapons' specialists, I'm afraid this will be called suicide, like so many other killings.

LaoPo

[jpolten]

I understand (from too many Special Forces books that I have read) that det cord burns extremely quickly but at a predictable rate, thus creating a very precise explosion pattern. It is often used in demolitions. It can wrapped around say a column or tree, that needs to be cut down.

Special forces like it because its so precise and very versatile.

Det cord could have been arranged around the body so as to ensure that identifiable features would be destroyed.

The question then arises if they had det cord, there really wouldn't be any need for additional explosives to get the job done other than to send a message, or perhaps to send the investigators off on a wild goose chase.

I don't think its det cord because it wouldn't be there after detonation,maybe wiring for remote det or simply

just some string to hold explosive in place (i cant see the photo very well)

Its possible that after being wired for remote det the leaver and pin could have been left to make it look like suicide

[jpolten]

The question is: do day-to-day policemen in a countryside police station know all this; do they have the same experience as a few of you guys ?

If they don't/didn't ask for assistance of military investigators or weapons' specialists, I'm afraid this will be called suicide, like so many other killings.

LaoPo

Don't think most of them know one end of their bike from the other and yes they should ask for assistance from someone with experience!

I don't live in LOS,but been there a lot and i think we all know the BIB don't give a sh*t unless there is money involved.....if its too complicated

or too much work involved they take the easy option!....but thats just my opinion

[Datsun240Z]

Don't think most of them know one end of their bike from the other and yes they should ask for assistance from someone with experience!

I don't live in LOS,but been there a lot and i think we all know the BIB don't give a sh*t unless there is money involved.....if its too complicated

or too much work involved they take the easy option!....but thats just my opinion

Yes, you are right.

[SHYTALK]

How does the primercord work.

Do you light it and the cord fiz-burns like a fuse, or does it just explode from a detonator?

Is it incendiary material inside or explosive C4.

[Datsun240Z]

If you can try to figure out what the original made of the hand grenade used was it could show/lead what's behind it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_grenade

[Tigs]

ShyTalk

It explodes. They often talk about how these cords burn, but the burn rate is between 4000-9000 M per second. I.e it is an instant chemical process that results in an almighty bang! As some people have rightly said SF use it to cut down trees, often to make jungle clearings for Helicopters to extract them. The Det cord needs itself a trigger detonation to ensure a high order explosion.

[Datsun240Z]

They also use the cord in mining and controlled demolition

[TAWP]

They also use the cord in mining and controlled demolition

[LaoPo]

ShyTalk

It explodes. They often talk about how these cords burn, but the burn rate is between 4000-9000 M per second. I.e it is an instant chemical process that results in an almighty bang! As some people have rightly said SF use it to cut down trees, often to make jungle clearings for Helicopters to extract them. The Det cord needs itself a trigger detonation to ensure a high order explosion.

That's nice to hear...but how come there's quite a bit of untouched detonation cord to be seen in that plastic bag ? (IF it is det cord of course but it sure looks like it).

Also: the police would probably not have put that cord in the same bag as the unused and still new detonator....it was likely found together on Mr. Keienburg or in his immediate close area.

Puzzling...

LaoPo

[SHYTALK]

I wonder where they found the grenade pin.

Was it on the floor somewhere, or was it still on the guys finger .

[Rumfoord]

Engineer Mr. Uwe Keienburg worked with/for Vinci Consulting Co., Ltd. - Thailand.

Vinci Consulting seems to be a respectable engineering/infrastructure and consulting company in Thailand:

vinciconsulting.net/index2.html

i don't know if the look of that website makes vinci consulting to a "respectable engineering/infrastructure and consulting company". there is a lack references of sucessful projects in the past.

if i check the whois of vinciconsulting, i come to the healthmedasia.com adress.  it's long gone, but few bits are on archive org. web.archive.org/web/*/healthmedasia.com

check this for example: web.archive.org/web/20040903095029/healthmedasia.com/introduction.htm

that looks like an odd business concept.

why is it so unbelievable that people commit suicide? it's a sad thing, but it happen.

the detonation cord looks like a leaveless twig to me. or some other piece of string.

maybe he just made some small installation that the grenade hangs in the air and he have his hands free for a last prayer. or constructed somekind of a booby-trap, to be triggered by himself and explode behind his back. he could had fixed the grenade and the trigger with 2 different strings and when he moved forward the trigger got released. did some ritual or last meditation, before he felt ready to go and make his last step forward and it made just a click noise behind his back.

psychologically maybe an easier process than hold the grenade in your own hand and face it for your last few seconds.

[jpolten]

How does the primercord work.

Do you light it and the cord fiz-burns like a fuse, or does it just explode from a detonator?

Is it incendiary material inside or explosive C4.

The only lever i can find that comes close is (http://www.inert-ord.net/usa03a/usa3/m67/index.html) but can not be sure because the upper

part looks a lot wider the forum photos!

I've seen some of the vid they posted but it stopped half why through,i see why you think it might be det cord with the body cut in half...but the cord in the

photo (if it is det cord)as far as i can see is still in good condition and it seems like overkill with a grenade and det cord!

Det cord needs a detonator,depending on the sensitivity of the explosive it can be a spark,electric charge or maybe even a fuse like you said

but ive never seen a fuse used.

WHY WHY WHY are the police making it complicated,saying it was a grenade....then showing cord that might not det cord and a NEW detonator??

If they wanted to call it suicide why not just show the pin and lever??

[LaoPo]

Engineer Mr. Uwe Keienburg worked with/for Vinci Consulting Co., Ltd. - Thailand.

Vinci Consulting seems to be a respectable engineering/infrastructure and consulting company in Thailand:

vinciconsulting.net/index2.html

i don't know if the look of that website makes vinci consulting to a "respectable engineering/infrastructure and consulting company". there is a lack references of sucessful projects in the past.

if i check the whois of vinciconsulting, i come to the healthmedasia.com adress.  it's long gone, but few bits are on archive org. web.archive.org/web/*/healthmedasia.com

check this for example: web.archive.org/web/20040903095029/healthmedasia.com/introduction.htm

that looks like an odd business concept.

why is it so unbelievable that people commit suicide? it's a sad thing, but it happen.

the detonation cord looks like a leaveless twig to me. or some other piece of string.

maybe he just made some small installation that the grenade hangs in the air and he have his hands free for a last prayer. or constructed somekind of a booby-trap, to be triggered by himself and explode behind his back. he could had fixed the grenade and the trigger with 2 different strings and when he moved forward the trigger got released. did some ritual or last meditation, before he felt ready to go and make his last step forward and it made just a click noise behind his back.

psychologically maybe an easier process than hold the grenade in your own hand and face it for your last few seconds.

As an answer to your first sentence: Mr. Keienburg worked for 2 respectable VERY LARGE companies in Thailand ( 1 from the USA and 1 from Italy/Thailand) and a.o. on the construction of the pavement on Suvarnabhumi airport:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/German-Engin...13#entry2958113

Of course that doesn't say anything but I wrote: "Vinci Consulting seems to be......".

He was an engineer and not in a shady bar adventure but anybody can end up in problems in Thailand or any other country.

Your last assumptions are speculative..maybe....maybe.

If we would only know more.....but to commit suicide on such a strange place, far away from home in a rubber plantation, with a grenade (with detonation material, hard to get) doesn't make sense to most.

But...who knows ?

LaoPo

[Tigs]

follow his bank account!

[brahmburgers]

I agree with Lao Po, that it sounds implausible to go to a remote rubber plantation to commit suicide.

Furthermore, why all the elaborations?

Plus, a remote detonator blowing up a backpack on one's back, while holding a laptop computer (I seem to recall hearing the computer was in relatively good condition after the mishap). ....all adds to the implausibility of it.

Was his mobile phone found? Have his emails been checked? Even if his computer is destroyed, there are probably still records of his emails at his service provider. If I was investigating it, I would also get a court order to view the wife's emails and phone records.

[Datsun240Z]

Engineer Mr. Uwe Keienburg worked with/for Vinci Consulting Co., Ltd. - Thailand.

Vinci Consulting seems to be a respectable engineering/infrastructure and consulting company in Thailand:

vinciconsulting.net/index2.html

i don't know if the look of that website makes vinci consulting to a "respectable engineering/infrastructure and consulting company". there is a lack references of sucessful projects in the past.

if i check the whois of vinciconsulting, i come to the healthmedasia.com adress. it's long gone, but few bits are on archive org. web.archive.org/web/*/healthmedasia.com

check this for example: web.archive.org/web/20040903095029/healthmedasia.com/introduction.htm

that looks like an odd business concept.

why is it so unbelievable that people commit suicide? it's a sad thing, but it happen.

the detonation cord looks like a leaveless twig to me. or some other piece of string.

maybe he just made some small installation that the grenade hangs in the air and he have his hands free for a last prayer. or constructed somekind of a booby-trap, to be triggered by himself and explode behind his back. he could had fixed the grenade and the trigger with 2 different strings and when he moved forward the trigger got released. did some ritual or last meditation, before he felt ready to go and make his last step forward and it made just a click noise behind his back.

psychologically maybe an easier process than hold the grenade in your own hand and face it for your last few seconds.

As an answer to your first sentence: Mr. Keienburg worked for 2 respectable VERY LARGE companies in Thailand ( 1 from the USA and 1 from Italy/Thailand) and a.o. on the construction of the pavement on Suvarnabhumi airport:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/German-Engin...13#entry2958113

Of course that doesn't say anything but I wrote: "Vinci Consulting seems to be......".

He was an engineer and not in a shady bar adventure but anybody can end up in problems in Thailand or any other country.

Your last assumptions are speculative..maybe....maybe.

If we would only know more.....but to commit suicide on such a strange place, far away from home in a rubber plantation, with a grenade (with detonation material, hard to get) doesn't make sense to most.

But...who knows ?

LaoPo

There's big money in misery. When there's money, there's competition. The guy paying him usually wins.

[SHYTALK]

Usually, people who intend to commit suicide also tend to leave a suicide note.

Havn't heard of such in this one though.

[twister]

Usually, people who intend to commit suicide also tend to leave a suicide note.

My bro didn't

[noithip]

Looks like all went quiet, no more news, police most probably decided that suicide would save a lot of work for them. Now they just have to announce it and everything will be forgotten. Business as usual...

[brahmburgers]

Job title: Crime Investigator,

Work With: police inspectors, and liaison with press corps.

Job Description:

>>> Go to crime scene at your leisure.

>>> Ask a few questions with whomever happens to be hanging out at the scene.

>>> Look serious. If you see a clue, pick it up and photograph it.

>>> If someone is cleaning up, or rearranging the scene, you can tell them 'bow bow' or you can let them do their thing.

>>> If it's one or two dead farang, call it either a 'mafia hit' or 'a suicide.' It's ok to change your mind later.

>>> Don't update the public after your initial announcement. It just confuses them, and plus it might reflect badly on Thai tourism.

>>> If someone offers you money to do something questionable, tell them 'no thanks.' If they insist, or if it's a lot of money, tell your superior and maybe you'all can agree on a satisfactory deal that pleases all (except perhaps the deceased' loved ones, but that's the way the cookie crumbles).

>>> Remember the rule of karma: everything that happens was meant to happen. So, if someone dies, it was meant to happen, so no use getting all bothered about it. Suicide is the easiest conclusion, so if you think it will stick with the Thai public, use it. Their focus will shift to something else soon anyway, do don't sweat it.

[sangfroid]

A few years back the police chief of the time instructed the BIB to watch CSI Miami "to see how it should be done"

[cyb]

A few years back the police chief of the time instructed the BIB to watch CSI Miami "to see how it should be done"

supply Links to that please.