Big Trouble In Tourist Thailand

[cyb]

So i can take it that you have viewed all 8 episodes?

Clutching at straws now.

No i have not viewed all 8 episodes i in no way implied that.

[lordsux]

Thx for your efforts with your youtube channel 'suirside' Don't worry about some posters here. Some will argue black is white without even considering the many shades of grey.

[webfact]

//General notice

This is the last warning

Let's keep it civil and calm and stay on topic.

If further off-topic replies are posted I'm going to suspend these members without prior warning

[Donnyboy]

6 or 8 episodes, im glad it will be the end of the series imo.

[TheGoodDoctor]

Well that ends the debate. The footage of the gun is clearly 100% fake. I really do dislike reality TV. Can't believe the demand for it.

[mrtoad]

Well that ends the debate. The footage of the gun is clearly 100% fake. I really do dislike reality TV. Can't believe the demand for it.

Er no it isn't. Think you may need to read a little more.

[hm1973]

Suirside,

I can answer your question on BTITmaker's behalf. (I am Howard from the program and I am in regular contact with him, in case you didn't know). Episode 7 is going ahead, however there seems to be a problem with Episode 8 at the moment as Bravo are not pleased with the content and Vera Productions aparently don't have enough footage to make a "new" Episode and have decided to do a "Best of" for Episode 8. I think this is pretty close to what is actually happening. I am sure that BTITmaker will correct any mistakes here when he wakes up as he is in the UK and is probably asleep as I write this!

[Explorer]

Suirside,

I can answer your question on BTITmaker's behalf. (I am Howard from the program and I am in regular contact with him, in case you didn't know). Episode 7 is going ahead, however there seems to be a problem with Episode 8 at the moment as Bravo are not pleased with the content and Vera Productions aparently don't have enough footage to make a "new" Episode and have decided to do a "Best of" for Episode 8. I think this is pretty close to what is actually happening. I am sure that BTITmaker will correct any mistakes here when he wakes up as he is in the UK and is probably asleep as I write this!

"The Best of Howard Miller's Scenes" ?

Better start a poll here on TV for members to vote

Explorer

[oevna]

Suirside,

I can answer your question on BTITmaker's behalf. (I am Howard from the program and I am in regular contact with him, in case you didn't know). Episode 7 is going ahead, however there seems to be a problem with Episode 8 at the moment as Bravo are not pleased with the content and Vera Productions aparently don't have enough footage to make a "new" Episode and have decided to do a "Best of" for Episode 8. I think this is pretty close to what is actually happening. I am sure that BTITmaker will correct any mistakes here when he wakes up as he is in the UK and is probably asleep as I write this!

Howard, if episode 8 is not aired, will the full series be available online or on DVD?

Hmm, Bravo is not pleased with the content... now I am intrigued!

Cheers,

-o

[hm1973]

Suirside,

I can answer your question on BTITmaker's behalf. (I am Howard from the program and I am in regular contact with him, in case you didn't know). Episode 7 is going ahead, however there seems to be a problem with Episode 8 at the moment as Bravo are not pleased with the content and Vera Productions aparently don't have enough footage to make a "new" Episode and have decided to do a "Best of" for Episode 8. I think this is pretty close to what is actually happening. I am sure that BTITmaker will correct any mistakes here when he wakes up as he is in the UK and is probably asleep as I write this!

Howard, if episode 8 is not aired, will the full series be available online or on DVD?

Hmm, Bravo is not pleased with the content... now I am intrigued!

Cheers,

-o

Nothing exciting really, apparently they have simply run out of footage.

I am sorry but I don't know what will happen with the series after it finishes. I am sure it will be repeated to death!!

[BTITmaker]

@ BTIT is there going to be any further episodes? I read somewhere else that it was cut to 6 not 8?

Suirside - Virgin Media's original order was for eight one-hour episodes. That is what Vera Productions was legally contracted to deliver. There should be EIGHT episodes, but Virgin Media was withholding money from Vera for the eighth episode because of insufficient material. Vera were proposing a 'best of' compilation or a prisons special and that didn't sit well with Virgin. So, who knows. And Lucy Pilkington who commissioned the series for Virgin, was overseeing BTIT, left Virgin Media this week. http://www.c21media.net/news/detail.asp?ar...p;article=52474

The C21 Media story goes: "While at the cable company, her commissions included the Danny Dyer series Real Football Factories and Deadliest Men; Brits Behind Bars; The Prisoner; and Big Trouble in Thailand.

"The latter project, made by Vera Productions for Bravo, has recently been involved in a whirlwind of controversy, with accusations of scenes being faked and a provincial Thai police chief accusing producers of attempting to smear Thailand with the series."

[Serpico]

@ BTIT is there going to be any further episodes? I read somewhere else that it was cut to 6 not 8?

Suirside - Virgin Media's original order was for eight one-hour episodes. That is what Vera Productions was legally contracted to deliver. There should be EIGHT episodes, but Virgin Media was withholding money from Vera for the eighth episode because of insufficient material. Vera were proposing a 'best of' compilation or a prisons special and that didn't sit well with Virgin. So, who knows. And Lucy Pilkington who commissioned the series for Virgin, was overseeing BTIT, left Virgin Media this week. http://www.c21media.net/news/detail.asp?ar...p;article=52474

The C21 Media story goes: "While at the cable company, her commissions included the Danny Dyer series Real Football Factories and Deadliest Men; Brits Behind Bars; The Prisoner; and Big Trouble in Thailand.

"The latter project, made by Vera Productions for Bravo, has recently been involved in a whirlwind of controversy, with accusations of scenes being faked and a provincial Thai police chief accusing producers of attempting to smear Thailand with the series."

Jet Ski operators have been pulling this crap on tourists for years with the local Police participating in the fraud.

Now, some foreigner makes a video and is accused of smearing Thailand.

[GungaDin]

Gavin,

is there any chance of a reply to my post /questions and bumped?

[BTITmaker]

Gavin,

is there any chance of a reply to my post /questions and bumped?

GungaDin - I'm sorry ... I missed those. Been back through the thread and can't find. Do you mind repeating the post/questions and I'll be more than happy to address.

[GungaDin]

Gavin,

is there any chance of a reply to my post /questions and bumped?

GungaDin - I'm sorry ... I missed those. Been back through the thread and can't find. Do you mind repeating the post/questions and I'll be more than happy to address.

Here you go...

Hi Gavin,

As the big Scot has said, you have a good reputation as a doc maker,

why not edit your own footage & sell the package,

is it too expensive to set-up & do?

If there was a "next time" what would you do differently?

Thanks for responding in a positive manner.

Having just been burgled while in Laos, I have a cunning plan for a program....

Cheers.

[BTITmaker]

Gavin,

is there any chance of a reply to my post /questions and bumped?

GungaDin - I'm sorry ... I missed those. Been back through the thread and can't find. Do you mind repeating the post/questions and I'll be more than happy to address.

Here you go...

Hi Gavin,

As the big Scot has said, you have a good reputation as a doc maker,

why not edit your own footage & sell the package,

is it too expensive to set-up & do?

If there was a "next time" what would you do differently?

Thanks for responding in a positive manner.

Having just been burgled while in Laos, I have a cunning plan for a program....

Cheers.

GungaDin - many thanks for re-posting ... no, it's not the cost factor but there are a number of other issues. There is a great documentary in what we shot, edited properly. But who would buy it?

First issue though is copyright - Vera Productions seem to think they were authorised to assign the rights for all the footage shot to Virgin Media and are maintaining their stance on this (for the time being), but they weren't. So, that's got to be settled - who actually owns the material. In my opinion the owners of the material would be those who shot it (those who aren't under any contractual obligations), and the organisation granted the permissions/access to shoot the agreed series in Thailand - neither which were Vera Productions/Virgin Media. I'm not sure how much Virgin Media is in the loop about this, so any shock could be delayed.

There won't be a next time because 1. TV's dying on its bottom and few people who work in it are good enough to save it from dying on its bottom and 2. why would, and let's take the Thais as an example here, give you permission and access to one thing if you're only going to turn on them at the very last minute and do another thing - e.g. by changing the title of the series i.e. 'Thai Cops' (albeit a working title) to 'Big Trouble In Tourist Thailand' or Riccochet/BBC 3's 'Where Our Food Comes From' to 'Blood Sweat and Takeaways'. It's a cheap trick that only works once or twice.

As someone who goes out of his way to get footage that's watchable enough and has a good idea how to make the most from that footage one thing I'd certainly not do again is work with either Vera Productions nor Virgin Media. I've no time for making stuff up - there's too much reality out there and clever ways of relating it without resorting to contriving falsehoods.

So, what's your cunning plan? And remember if it's a good idea the chance of a UK TV channel turning it into a programme or series are next to ZERO.

Does this answer your question?

Edited October 17, 2009 by BTITmaker

[hm1973]

Keep your chin up Gavin, it's nearly over! (until the repeats start )

[BTITmaker]

I still think Howard Miller's 'Do Not Resist: Thailand' is a winner ... worth pitching to TAT, see if they'd put up the funding. Howard's irresistible guide to first class travel, gourmet dining and luxury living. Could be a great catchphrase - "Mango and Sticky Rice: Do Not Resist Me!"

[taffylee]

Suirside,

I can answer your question on BTITmaker's behalf. (I am Howard from the program and I am in regular contact with him, in case you didn't know). Episode 7 is going ahead, however there seems to be a problem with Episode 8 at the moment as Bravo are not pleased with the content and Vera Productions aparently don't have enough footage to make a "new" Episode and have decided to do a "Best of" for Episode 8. I think this is pretty close to what is actually happening. I am sure that BTITmaker will correct any mistakes here when he wakes up as he is in the UK and is probably asleep as I write this!

It makes sense, the whole series has been pretty s**t, I guess they were scraping the barrel to get anything interesting past episode 2.

I guess there are always more interviews with lady boys telling us how English like it up the bum.

Good riddance to the series and the continued damage it has caused to Thailand's reputation as a holiday destination.

I don’t believe the motives of the film crew or the TPV’s were malicious but the TPV’s should have known better and were very naive in co-operating with them, probably thinking it would be a softly softly series about the brave boys in black that are keeping the streets safe for tourists.

And to think one of them is an amateur journalist, he should have known better!

Maybe the TAT and the proper police were even more Naïve, or perhaps took a back hander.

Good Riddence BTIT and the S##t it has caused!

Edited October 17, 2009 by taffylee

[BTITmaker]

taffylee - don't panic ... it's only a TV show on a very minor UK cable TV channel, viewed by about the equivalent of the population of Penzance. And the demographic is not TAT's target market in any case - i.e. not 18-34 year olds.

Thailand attracts MILLIONS of tourists each year and if you look at the UK viewing figures (BARB) BTIT's watched by tens of thousands of Britons - and most of them exactly the sort of person who already comes to Thailand - whether it's to visit the sex spots that you suggest you'd rather didn't exist or the Full Moon Party, which I assume you're also against.

And if the comments on You Tube are anything to go by, BTIT will have given tourism a leg up, if anything. Though you're right - it's the "wrong" types that will be making a beeline for the sorts of places featured in the series. Perhaps you could personally pick and choose the right sort of visitor, maybe set up a vetting desk at the airport?

BTIT's biggest boost, by the way - internationally, illegally over the net - was when Thai Channel 3 gave it day after day of free advertising. The hits rocketed! And Channel 3 screened large chunks of Episode One time and time again, so they must have thought it a good watch at least.

So what was so interesting about the first two episodes that you think BTIT should've been a two part series, then?

And apparently, it's not just the English but Thai ladyboys do a roaring trade with the Welsh too. Bit of bum action knows no borders, but you're right - we should have kept the prostitution strictly hetero.

Has BTIT really done damage to Thailand as a holiday destination? How exactly? By your own admission BTIT has been a softly softly series since Ep. 2 at least, when you notice it was running out of material. So what is it hard-hitting or softly softly? Damaging or a damp squib? I'd be interested to know.

Edited October 17, 2009 by BTITmaker

[hm1973]

And apparently, it's not just the English but Thai ladyboys do a roaring trade with the Welsh too. Bit of bum action knows no borders, but you're right - we should have kept the prostitution strictly hetero.

Is there something you wish to tell us

[taffylee]

taffylee - don't panic ... it's only a TV show on a very minor UK cable TV channel, viewed by about the equivalent of the population of Penzance. And the demographic is not TAT's target market in any case - i.e. not 18-34 year olds.

Thailand attracts MILLIONS of tourists each year and if you look at the UK viewing figures (BARB) BTIT's watched by tens of thousands of Britons - and most of them exactly the sort of person who already comes to Thailand - whether it's to visit the sex spots that you suggest you'd rather didn't exist or the Full Moon Party, which I assume you're also against.

And if the comments on You Tube are anything to go by, BTIT will have given tourism a leg up, if anything. Though you're right - it's the "wrong" types that will be making a beeline for the sorts of places featured in the series. Perhaps you could personally pick and choose the right sort of visitor, maybe set up a vetting desk at the airport?

BTIT's biggest boost, by the way - internationally, illegally over the net - was when Thai Channel 3 gave it day after day of free advertising. The hits rocketed! And Channel 3 screened large chunks of Episode One time and time again, so they must have thought it a good watch at least.

So what was so interesting about the first two episodes that you think BTIT should've been a two part series, then?

And apparently, it's not just the English but Thai ladyboys do a roaring trade with the Welsh too. Bit of bum action knows no borders, but you're right - we should have kept the prostitution strictly hetero.

Has BTIT really done damage to Thailand as a holiday destination? How exactly? By your own admission BTIT has been a softly softly series since Ep. 2 at least, when you notice it was running out of material. So what is it hard-hitting or softly softly? Damaging or a damp squib? I'd be interested to know.

My livelyhood depends on tourism, if there is a chance that just one person would not spend money in my establishment as a result then of course I am inclined to dissaprove. This occured to me when I received 3 emails from people back home telling me that I am an idiot for living here, it made me think.

The Saga is not over... it will be shown on other networks in due course which will probably attract a bigger audience than Bravo. It's funny you mention penzance, I know of 2 customers that live in Penzance :-)

I think the manipulation of the JJ scenes is awful, in the unedited version he comes across like a typical Thai, and in no way as threatening as the post edit version portrayed. He was only having a joke with the boys when the gun appeared, that was clear to see. Is he out of jail now??

If you really want an honest opinion then here it is.......

I liked the prison footage, it is a useful education to anyone who considers doing daft things here.

With regards to the Tourist police, the work of the girls in Phuket was great and showed that there is help available if you need it (But not thrown in your face)

The Pattaya Tourist Police, well I share the same opinion as 90% of Pattaya Tourists/Ex-pats and that is "Who are these guys and who do they think they are?", who wants to fly half way round the world and have a bunch of farang losers watching thier every move and have their unqualified judgements thrown in your face. I speak better Thai than these guys so if I was in distress they can F##k off. Pattaya TPV's could learn a lot from the Phuket example.

But of course, I do understand what makes good television and as previously mentioned you wouldn't be able to sell it if it could be viewed by a family audience.

Ladyboys are indeed a colorful addition to Thailand and my 'English' remarks perhaps should have been changed to 'British' to include Welsh... I was quoting the ladyboy in question :-), I don't recall any interviews with hetro bar girls (accounts for perhaps 80%+ of trade) but do recall the disguisting interviews with the two ladyboys which made me feel sick and I guess caused many back home to change channel..

Each episode seemed to contain 30% of repeated material, I guess that is normal in TV but I am of course no expert.

This forum has an emphasis on Thailand, I guess this is why there are strong responses but as far as quality television is concerned - I have no idea, I'll wait for the BAFTA awards.

Please dont misunderstand me, I have enjoyed the series but there seems to have been a backlash, with one thai guy in jail and I think one farang producer/cameraman (i'm not really sure) on the run from Thailand... I think everyone who was involved had thier best intentions betrayed by the guys in the cutting room (i know this is old fashioned), it seems the real Thai tourist experience has been turned into an experience from hel_l! But of course if people wanna watch nice temples, floating markets and James Bond island then they should tune to the travel channel (is that still on air in uk?)

Edited October 17, 2009 by taffylee

[GungaDin]

Does this answer your question?

Yes, thank you.

[enyaw]

Taffylee:

"It makes sense, the whole series has been pretty s**t, I guess they were scraping the barrel to get anything interesting past episode2"

Well that's true.

BTITmaker mentioned 'front loading' which I can only presume meant the better (more controversial) footage was all screened in the earlier episodes? Apart from the JJ incident and the girl who got arrested for possession (which was also a little too convenient) what else has there been and both of these 'visual expressions' were in the first show!

Front loading no. It simply means that there hasn't been enough material to make the full toking spliff.

[phuketrex]

Gavin, can you confirm that during the JJ boatyard scene there were 2 Thai Policemen there?

[Serpico]

The video is an accurate portrayal of what is happening to tourists all over Thailand. The scammers are arrogant and untouchable since they pay the police.

Tourists should be nurtured...not abused.

[caf]

The video is an accurate portrayal of what is happening to tourists all over Thailand. The scammers are arrogant and untouchable since they pay the police.

Tourists should be nurtured...not abused.

Exactly

But talking about editing and personal sour grapes is a good way to keep the truth of the scams out of the thread.

First rule in Thailand: Blame the farang. Second rule: Never admit you're wrong.

[BTITmaker]

Gavin, can you confirm that during the JJ boatyard scene there were 2 Thai Policemen there?

taffylee - thank you for a very fair response ... I was expecting both barrels. I actually agree with you on many points. And when it comes to the ladyboys ... yes, it was shot but that didn't mean it all had to sail into the episodes and in the salacious way that it has. Bravo is pandering to the lads and fully counting on them to find the ladyboys at odds with their red-blooded, raging heterosexuality. Therefore, the ladyboys become a focus of fun, to be mocked. And mocking is what Vera Productions excells at. My mistake was in thinking that they'd bring some intelligent input to this series, add another layer. It doesn't have to be crash, "bang", wallop every frame of the show. There was nothing clever about BTIT - yet the material WAS there if someone had wanted to do something different. And that's a fact. Making BTIT was a challenge on all counts, because to be honest, the Thai police weren't all that interested either - we were only able to do what we could because of the farang TPVs involved - in my, humble, opinion.

phuketrex, sorry ... no is the answer. The Thai policemen turned up right at the very end - after JJ had torn a strip off Jack, scuffled with one Marine, produced the gun, had the showdown with the Royal Marines policeman Tim Wright, the deal had been struck and after Jack had gone off to the ATM on the back of one of JJ's boys' motorbikes. They came with HMS Bulwark's on-shore agents (private contractors). To be fair, I think that's when they were alerted, although I could be wrong.

[BTITmaker]

enyaw - that's a can of worms you're opening there ...

Undoubtedly Thailand offers up more than enough material to pack seasons of series - that's for sure.

Question is how long you have to film for, and where, to get it.

2nd question is whether the broadcaster wants to pay you to do so (they don't).

And then there's the sums - the overall budget for Thai Cops (BTIT) was 400,000 Pounds - 50 grand an episode (Pounds).

How much do you think was spent on the ground, in Thailand? And how much in London?

Go on ... have a guess ...

Back with the answer shortly ...

[BTITmaker]

enyaw - that's a can of worms you're opening there ...

Undoubtedly Thailand offers up more than enough material to pack seasons of series - that's for sure.

Question is how long you have to film for, and where, to get it.

2nd question is whether the broadcaster wants to pay you to do so (they don't).

And then there's the sums - the overall budget for Thai Cops (BTIT) was 400,000 Pounds - 50 grand an episode (Pounds).

How much do you think was spent on the ground, in Thailand? And how much in London?

Go on ... have a guess ...

Back with the answer shortly ...

One tenth of the entire budget was spent in Thailand.