Big Trouble In Tourist Thailand

[losworld]

This is now getting interesting with JJ claiming it was all a set up and the marines sticking to their story that it wasn't. Predictably the Thai government is overreacing and trying to get the broadcast stopped which will only make it more profitable for Bravo and Vera to continue and syndicate it too. They must be delighted.

I don't know how much boat repairs cost but the amounts of money JJ is asking for seem excessive, even if the damage is caused by the hirers. Comparing with car repairs, you can get multiple dents knocked out of a European car and replacement fibreglass bumpers plus a complete respray job using the manufacturer's paint for about 40,000 baht. Obviously a boat must be watertight but..... Where there is a genuine accident, which probably happens quite often JJ is probably marking up the cost 6 or 7 times - obviously a lot more profitable than the income from renting them out. If accidents are not happening often enough, then no doubt he can use the same damage several times over, particularly if the jet ski is already in the water when the customer takes it, so they don't see clearly what is below the water line. He probably deserves what he gets which probably won't be much, even though he was almost certainly set up. In one of the videos he is shouting a language to his staff that isn't Thai. Perhaps it was Burmese. Employing illegal Burmese boat boys in Phuket is another issue which the govt may well attempt to clean up at the same time and going through the motions of cleaning up scum like JJ.

Of course the marines are not going to admit it is not real... it would look pathetic if the paid fighting forces took part in a setup or staged event simply to get on camera which is what indirectly took place in my opinion. I think viewers need to be careful not to believe it is true simply because they are delighted with someone revealing some of the scams that take place. No doubt ripoffs take place but staging one and claiming it is not staged is another ripoff in the making.

I also find it somewhat disturbing to see some posters revel in what is really a very damaging portrayal of Thailand and its important tourist industry. We all know scams take place in Thailand and almost all developing countries. I myself feel it is safer and much less confrontational than say Mexico. But how many viewers will believe this after seeing this show?

I have a problem with producers who simply shoot a show for profit without thinking about how many people may be harmed in terms of jobs, income, etc. This show does a lot of good for a production company and network with an agenda for profit but little for the working people of Thailand and many here who operate businesses. This is really nothing short of exploitative journalism although journalism is really not the correct word.

Edited September 14, 2009 by losworld

[GMoney]

My take on this is that the marines (both US AND UK) didn't want any trouble. Most of those guys enjoy serving in the military, are professionals and don't want to be court marshaled and kicked out. Had the sitiuation escaleted to violence, I'm sure their training would have kicked in and they would have "defeated" the Thai thugs. Do remember that moat Thai scammers have little to fear from the authorities (yeah "JJ" probably paid a B500 fine) but the Marines are probalaby already in hot water with their respective commanders, not to mention being out a considerable amount of hard earned pay...

I tend to agree with this. in the raw clip you can see the British head honcho have a few words with his Marine when he shows up - basically telling the kid - "I told you this would happen if you rented jetskis and you disobeyed." I think the fear the boys were showing was the repercussions of disobeying the riot act they were read on the boat before they hit shore. Remember they TOO were being filmed so if they fought their way out of the situation then they risked disciplinary action from their forces. The US Marine was taken by the Navy police....shore leave was over for him. I think "Biggie Smalls" was there to pay JJ and they would deal with this kid for disobeying orders later. Per the directors comments on Drummonds site, the kid admitted to having caused the damage. Also, somewhere in the raw footage the UK guys admit that 2 of their ski's bumped but there was no way it was enough to hurt anything. I think the mafia is watching these guys closely while they are out riding and if they see them bump or go into rocky waters then the scam kicks in.

[GungaDin]

This is now getting interesting with JJ claiming it was all a set up and the marines sticking to their story that it wasn't. Predictably the Thai government is overreacing and trying to get the broadcast stopped which will only make it more profitable for Bravo and Vera to continue and syndicate it too. They must be delighted.

I don't know how much boat repairs cost but the amounts of money JJ is asking for seem excessive, even if the damage is caused by the hirers. Comparing with car repairs, you can get multiple dents knocked out of a European car and replacement fibreglass bumpers plus a complete respray job using the manufacturer's paint for about 40,000 baht. Obviously a boat must be watertight but..... Where there is a genuine accident, which probably happens quite often JJ is probably marking up the cost 6 or 7 times - obviously a lot more profitable than the income from renting them out. If accidents are not happening often enough, then no doubt he can use the same damage several times over, particularly if the jet ski is already in the water when the customer takes it, so they don't see clearly what is below the water line. He probably deserves what he gets which probably won't be much, even though he was almost certainly set up. In one of the videos he is shouting a language to his staff that isn't Thai. Perhaps it was Burmese. Employing illegal Burmese boat boys in Phuket is another issue which the govt may well attempt to clean up at the same time and going through the motions of cleaning up scum like JJ.

Of course the marines are not going to admit it is not real... it would look pathetic if the paid fighting forces took part in a setup or staged event simply to get on camera which is what indirectly took place in my opinion. I think viewers need to be careful not to believe it is true simply because they are delighted with someone revealing some of the scams that take place. No doubt ripoffs take place but staging one and claiming it is not staged is another ripoff in the making.

I also find it somewhat disturbing to see some posters revel in what is really a very damaging portrayal of Thailand and its important tourist industry. We all know scams take place in Thailand and almost all developing countries. I myself feel it is safer and much less confrontational than say Mexico. But how many viewers will believe this after seeing this show?

I have a problem with producers who simply shoot a show for profit without thinking about how many people may be harmed in terms of jobs, income, etc. This show does a lot of good for a production company and network with an agenda for profit but little for the working people of Thailand and many here who operate businesses. This is really nothing short of exploitative journalism although journalism is really not the correct word.

Losworld, you've los the plot.

[losworld]

This is now getting interesting with JJ claiming it was all a set up and the marines sticking to their story that it wasn't. Predictably the Thai government is overreacing and trying to get the broadcast stopped which will only make it more profitable for Bravo and Vera to continue and syndicate it too. They must be delighted.

I don't know how much boat repairs cost but the amounts of money JJ is asking for seem excessive, even if the damage is caused by the hirers. Comparing with car repairs, you can get multiple dents knocked out of a European car and replacement fibreglass bumpers plus a complete respray job using the manufacturer's paint for about 40,000 baht. Obviously a boat must be watertight but..... Where there is a genuine accident, which probably happens quite often JJ is probably marking up the cost 6 or 7 times - obviously a lot more profitable than the income from renting them out. If accidents are not happening often enough, then no doubt he can use the same damage several times over, particularly if the jet ski is already in the water when the customer takes it, so they don't see clearly what is below the water line. He probably deserves what he gets which probably won't be much, even though he was almost certainly set up. In one of the videos he is shouting a language to his staff that isn't Thai. Perhaps it was Burmese. Employing illegal Burmese boat boys in Phuket is another issue which the govt may well attempt to clean up at the same time and going through the motions of cleaning up scum like JJ.

Of course the marines are not going to admit it is not real... it would look pathetic if the paid fighting forces took part in a setup or staged event simply to get on camera which is what indirectly took place in my opinion. I think viewers need to be careful not to believe it is true simply because they are delighted with someone revealing some of the scams that take place. No doubt ripoffs take place but staging one and claiming it is not staged is another ripoff in the making.

I also find it somewhat disturbing to see some posters revel in what is really a very damaging portrayal of Thailand and its important tourist industry. We all know scams take place in Thailand and almost all developing countries. I myself feel it is safer and much less confrontational than say Mexico. But how many viewers will believe this after seeing this show?

I have a problem with producers who simply shoot a show for profit without thinking about how many people may be harmed in terms of jobs, income, etc. This show does a lot of good for a production company and network with an agenda for profit but little for the working people of Thailand and many here who operate businesses. This is really nothing short of exploitative journalism although journalism is really not the correct word.

Losworld, you've los the plot.

lol... not yet

[phuketrex]

More unedited footage of the US Marines incident>>>

[phuketrex]

The HMS Bulwark shore patrol arriving at the boatyard>>>

[GungaDin]

The HMS Bulwark shore patrol arriving at the boatyard>>>

I believe Gavin Hill and the Marines,

there are too many people involved at the boatyard to be a set-up.

(no one can keep a secret)

I watched that clip above a couple of times.

If it's uncut & unedited, where is the gun?

The gun is central to this whole story

I saw it in ep. 1.......

Why leave it out?

I'm sure there is a good reason, but it escapes me for now.

GAVIN !

[caf]

This is now getting interesting with JJ claiming it was all a set up and the marines sticking to their story that it wasn't. Predictably the Thai government is overreacing and trying to get the broadcast stopped which will only make it more profitable for Bravo and Vera to continue and syndicate it too. They must be delighted.

I don't know how much boat repairs cost but the amounts of money JJ is asking for seem excessive, even if the damage is caused by the hirers. Comparing with car repairs, you can get multiple dents knocked out of a European car and replacement fibreglass bumpers plus a complete respray job using the manufacturer's paint for about 40,000 baht. Obviously a boat must be watertight but..... Where there is a genuine accident, which probably happens quite often JJ is probably marking up the cost 6 or 7 times - obviously a lot more profitable than the income from renting them out. If accidents are not happening often enough, then no doubt he can use the same damage several times over, particularly if the jet ski is already in the water when the customer takes it, so they don't see clearly what is below the water line. He probably deserves what he gets which probably won't be much, even though he was almost certainly set up. In one of the videos he is shouting a language to his staff that isn't Thai. Perhaps it was Burmese. Employing illegal Burmese boat boys in Phuket is another issue which the govt may well attempt to clean up at the same time and going through the motions of cleaning up scum like JJ.

Of course the marines are not going to admit it is not real... it would look pathetic if the paid fighting forces took part in a setup or staged event simply to get on camera which is what indirectly took place in my opinion. I think viewers need to be careful not to believe it is true simply because they are delighted with someone revealing some of the scams that take place. No doubt ripoffs take place but staging one and claiming it is not staged is another ripoff in the making.

I also find it somewhat disturbing to see some posters revel in what is really a very damaging portrayal of Thailand and its important tourist industry. We all know scams take place in Thailand and almost all developing countries. I myself feel it is safer and much less confrontational than say Mexico. But how many viewers will believe this after seeing this show?

I have a problem with producers who simply shoot a show for profit without thinking about how many people may be harmed in terms of jobs, income, etc. This show does a lot of good for a production company and network with an agenda for profit but little for the working people of Thailand and many here who operate businesses. This is really nothing short of exploitative journalism although journalism is really not the correct word.

Losworld, you've los the plot.

lol... not yet

Losworld, spend some time researching some of the other forums.

And you are saying there is no big money in jetski scams in thailand? It's not just this case. It's been going on for years. About time there was some journalistic balance.

[Mark Wolfe]

Why was the bit about JJ screaming that his uncle was a big shot and so on cut out of the final product? That seems very relevant to me.

[CrossBones]

OK. from the horses mouth this was a set up "corrections I am making to the scripts. "

So the producer admits there were scipts

The producer is a scumbag. As much as I dislike people like JJ, the whole thing was a set up and the producer did a runner and wouldnt face up to the fact he scripted it, JJ is in trouble that even his uncle probablly cant get him out of and the producer is covering his ass, job etc.

The Jetski incident definatley a set up, who would threaten someone on camera with a gun?

....the script is what the narrator says between and during each case on the actual program, not a script for the participants in each scene.

You still haven't answered my question? What was wrong with YOU being filmed?

I just find it somewhat ironic that it came from the man who makes his "living" filming all manner of people without their permission

RAZZ

Umm what? Youve got me confused with someone!

Yeah, these unedited versions are coming out now... but no gun thats a bit strange.

I have no doubt that JJ is a chancer and a scammer but I just think the thing with the Royal Marines was a set up. No way hes going to bring a gun out unless its a "show", and I seriously doubt he would have the balls to face a truck load of marines with just a BB gun aimed at the floor - it would take about 2 seconds to flatten him and get the gun I am really surprised that they didnt! Also with the video evidence to support it, it would be a clear case of self defense when someone brings a gun into an argument. Surely it would make more sense to extort a couple of people on their own, maybe some more wealthy looking tourists. People like this usually prey on the weak.

Ive seen the video of the US marines, well that seems more believable I admit but why the cameras every time?

Oh well this is an interesting topic because we love to see people who scam us get caught.

Edited September 14, 2009 by CrossBones

[britmaveric]

^JJ said if he was touched - all his boys would come out with knives ect. He was boasting - marines only have fist and we will not fight fair.

[DonJuanDemarco]

Are these the USMC non-pussies?

Thats the first 150 kg US Marine I have ever seen. Irregardless, not much correlation as these guys have been conned into believing they actually did damage the jet ski. Everything is out in the public, not back roomed. There is a Thai cop there, and oh yeah, they do not have a gun being pointed in their face.

[GungaDin]

To be fair, I thought the scene in the boatyard may have been set up when I first saw it, but having seen how the editor can screw up good footage, I changed my mind.

The cameraman/director has said clearly that he has no control over the editing.

So, direct all your whinges at the EDITOR.

i would guess that Gavin is very pissed off at the moment.

---------

The Americans paid up because the kid disobeyed a specific order NOT to hire a jet ski, he's in big trouble back on board.

[Mark Wolfe]

I think that the cut footage showing that the marines disobeyed orders by renting the jet skiis is important in this discussion. That goes far in explaining why they were crapping themselves.

And I have to say that the US service-boy kowtowing to this slimy thug on the other video is repulsive. Guilty or not, these youths should be taught to show some self-respect. I don't think that humiliating yourself is included in payment for real or contrived damage to a jet ski. Disgraceful behavior.

[GungaDin]

The kid was probably never told not to wai to anyone in Thailand, It's a Thai thing, nothing to do with us.

Bloody hard to return a wai when you've got a jug of beer in each hand, too.

[DonJuanDemarco]

I am sure many of you were walking around waiing people on your second day in Thailand too. Its pretty clear that these guys believed they were in the wrong. Completely different from the British chaps who were back-roomed, held at gun point and knew they were being cheated and did not have the common sense to call the Thai police or try to do something than pull down their pants.

[britmaveric]

^apparently the BIB were there in the British incident, just wasn't filmed.

[Mark Wolfe]

Here's something I'd like to offer up that we have all missed.

The young man who was accused of causing damage to the jet ski NEVER says that he was not in an accident. When asked by JJ and subsequently by the head of shore patrol, he says he "can't remember " hitting anyone.

"Can't remember"? <deleted>? It happened two hours ago. Of course he can remember. We have all in our lives told lies, or, more to the point, "fudged" to conceal something unfavorable to ourselves. To me, this guy is hiding something. If absolutely nothing had happened he would be emphatic: "No way! I DID NOT HIT ANYTHING!"

Instead, he not only tried to rely on misdirection in his answer, he actually tried to flee the scene!

When asked why he tried to flee, at one point he answers, "I don't know." Yeah, I bet…

On reflection, I think that something happened out there in the water, although I do not think that the damage that JJ is referring to was caused by this renter.

The plot thickens….

[ChiangMaiThai]

Gotta love Thailand. Tourists ripped off daily across the entire Kingdom and its business as usual, until it goes out on TV, then the Governor promises a big clean up. Sure... Yes, I prefer it here to Farangland, but the longer I am here, the more cynical I become.

Edited September 14, 2009 by ChiangMaiThai

[baramunchies]

having worked with fibreglass a lot, this damage is nothing serious and can be fixed for a low xxxx baht.

[Travel2003]

Are these the USMC non-pussies?

I thought he was going to give the guy a BJ while he was down there bowing and scraping lol !!!!

Penkoprod

Probably just the common misunderstanding about why and how one do the wai.

We see that all the time here.

But who was the big guy in the orange shirt that handled the money?

The cook?

And why did he want a receipt?

Why wouldn't he want a receipt after forking out 40,000+bt!

Jeeeezus!

----------

Watch the copper smiling in the US marine clip.

He can't wait to get his hands on his cut from JJ.

Gavin..... follow the money....... next time.

You seem to have been around for some time.

So you should know that a receipt is worth less than the price for the paper it is made of, if you are involved in a scam of some sort.

Whats next? Demanding receipts in a go go bar?

[GungaDin]

Sailor.

How old are you and where are you from?

I'm 66 and Aus.

[Travel2003]

Sailor.

How old are you and where are you from?

I'm 66 and Aus.

Im 45 and from Norway.

And I was correct.

You have been around for a while.

I am guessing you actually are referring to my last post, right?

My point was, I cant see what good a receipt will do when one is involved in this kind of business (being scammed, or just handing cash over on the street).

I believe the receipt can not be used for anything.

If the receipt is a formal document, then tax will also be in the equation for the local guy.

And that I doubt he pays.

That was why I used the silly one regarding receipts in other establishments as well.

same same, but different.

[bonobo]

...and one of JJ's coworkers taking 40000baht off some American Marines just a few days after the British Marines confrontation. JJ is at the start of this video>>>

Are these the USMC non-pussies?

When Marines pull into a liberty port, the biggest thing briefed to commanders is not to have "liberty incidents."  This from the group commander on down, and the colonel is undoubtedly getting that from the three-star back  in the US.

From MEU commander to his element commanders to their company commanders to the platoon commanders, platoon sergeants, and squad leaders, this is an iron-clad imperative. Each Marine knows that is he or she causes an incident, he or she is in big, big trouble.  Consequently, they tend to do anything to keep from having an incident, from putting up with BS to running away.  Most would consider paying 4000 baht a cheap price to keep off the official reports.

[CrossBones]

Here's something I'd like to offer up that we have all missed.

The young man who was accused of causing damage to the jet ski NEVER says that he was not in an accident. When asked by JJ and subsequently by the head of shore patrol, he says he "can't remember " hitting anyone.

"Can't remember"? <deleted>? It happened two hours ago. Of course he can remember. We have all in our lives told lies, or, more to the point, "fudged" to conceal something unfavorable to ourselves. To me, this guy is hiding something. If absolutely nothing had happened he would be emphatic: "No way! I DID NOT HIT ANYTHING!"

Instead, he not only tried to rely on misdirection in his answer, he actually tried to flee the scene!

When asked why he tried to flee, at one point he answers, "I don't know." Yeah, I bet…

On reflection, I think that something happened out there in the water, although I do not think that the damage that JJ is referring to was caused by this renter.

The plot thickens….

Ahh yes but people usually choose an opinion that suits them. Its nice to think of a Thai getting busted for ripping off a Farang, because it has happened to us at some point. Its like when your friend tells you he had a big argument with his wife, you usually take the guys side since you can relate to it and project your experience and anger of a previous problem you have experienced to the new situation.

Edited September 14, 2009 by CrossBones

[CrossBones]

having worked with fibreglass a lot, this damage is nothing serious and can be fixed for a low xxxx baht.

how many baht?

Seriously though...

If you were caught up in a real scam (still doubt if the UK marine incident was real), what would be the correct way to handle it? Police come and say yes you have to pay 50,000 baht damages with no damage report or whatever.. and you know that the damage can be fixed for 2000 baht...and you didnt make it anyway what should you do? What are your choices? Can you go to court over it? I guess that might extend your holiday somewhat. The police are going to ask for your passport right? Does he have the right to take it since its not proven you had an accident, just that you were suspected of having one. Where is innocent until proven guilty? If you are on holiday and are accused of anything, you must surrender your passport to the police and .. knowing that, the forces are absolutely against you and the locals know this. YOU JUST NEED TO BE ACCUSED OF SOMETHING and you CANT LEAVE THE COUNTRY? Is that how it works?

Are all the Thai police bad? Isnt someone in any form of power decent and willing to stick up for whats right? Are Thais just going to stick together no matter what? If thats the case then you can hardly expect people to be respectful when here on holiday. They are just on holiday after all, most people aren't accustomed to learning the local cultures etc when going on a lads holiday on the piss. Is it unreasonable that we should expect the Thai authorites to look out for US when on holiday. Thailand does market itself for tourism after all.

What protection is there for tourists? I expect there is absolutely NONE!

Where is the mechanism for complaining about mis-treatment from the police?

Where to file your complaint?

Where are all the "good tourists" ummm ?

I tried calling the tourist police once, and twice and then all day and nobody answered... the national call number!

Edited September 14, 2009 by CrossBones

[ChiangMaiThai]

having worked with fibreglass a lot, this damage is nothing serious and can be fixed for a low xxxx baht.

how many baht?

Seriously though...

If you were caught up in a real scam (still doubt if the UK marine incident was real), what would be the correct way to handle it? Police come and say yes you have to pay 50,000 baht damages with no damage report or whatever.. and you know that the damage can be fixed for 2000 baht...and you didnt make it anyway what should you do? What are your choices? Can you go to court over it? I guess that might extend your holiday somewhat. The police are going to ask for your passport right? Does he have the right to take it since its not proven you had an accident, just that you were suspected of having one. Where is innocent until proven guilty? If you are on holiday and are accused of anything, you must surrender your passport to the police and .. knowing that, the forces are absolutely against you and the locals know this. YOU JUST NEED TO BE ACCUSED OF SOMETHING and you CANT LEAVE THE COUNTRY? Is that how it works?

Are all the Thai police bad? Isnt someone in any form of power decent and willing to stick up for whats right? Are Thais just going to stick together no matter what? If thats the case then you can hardly expect people to be respectful when here on holiday. They are just on holiday after all, most people aren't accustomed to learning the local cultures etc when going on a lads holiday on the piss. Is it unreasonable that we should expect the Thai authorites to look out for US when on holiday. Thailand does market itself for tourism after all.

What protection is there for tourists? I expect there is absolutely NONE!

Where is the mechanism for complaining about mis-treatment from the police?

Where to file your complaint?

Where are all the "good tourists" ummm ?

I tried calling the tourist police once, and twice and then all day and nobody answered... the national call number!

You said everything I wanted to say. It is very funny that the jet ski owners throw out a number and that's what has to be paid on the spot or else. And the police stand there watching. No chance to get official quotes from various fix it shops (I know they would probably get in on the scam too - but still), no chance to actually challenge their claim and go to court, just pay now or you have "big problem". It is really such a shame. Phuket could be paradise, but the greed and corruption kills the soul of the place.

[losworld]

There's really a simple solution to all of this... DON'T RENT A <deleted> JETSKI... take your gal and enjoy a canoe for two...

[CrossBones]

having worked with fibreglass a lot, this damage is nothing serious and can be fixed for a low xxxx baht.

how many baht?

Seriously though...

If you were caught up in a real scam (still doubt if the UK marine incident was real), what would be the correct way to handle it? Police come and say yes you have to pay 50,000 baht damages with no damage report or whatever.. and you know that the damage can be fixed for 2000 baht...and you didnt make it anyway what should you do? What are your choices? Can you go to court over it? I guess that might extend your holiday somewhat. The police are going to ask for your passport right? Does he have the right to take it since its not proven you had an accident, just that you were suspected of having one. Where is innocent until proven guilty? If you are on holiday and are accused of anything, you must surrender your passport to the police and .. knowing that, the forces are absolutely against you and the locals know this. YOU JUST NEED TO BE ACCUSED OF SOMETHING and you CANT LEAVE THE COUNTRY? Is that how it works?

Are all the Thai police bad? Isnt someone in any form of power decent and willing to stick up for whats right? Are Thais just going to stick together no matter what? If thats the case then you can hardly expect people to be respectful when here on holiday. They are just on holiday after all, most people aren't accustomed to learning the local cultures etc when going on a lads holiday on the piss. Is it unreasonable that we should expect the Thai authorites to look out for US when on holiday. Thailand does market itself for tourism after all.

What protection is there for tourists? I expect there is absolutely NONE!

Where is the mechanism for complaining about mis-treatment from the police?

Where to file your complaint?

Where are all the "good tourists" ummm ?

I tried calling the tourist police once, and twice and then all day and nobody answered... the national call number!

You said everything I wanted to say. It is very funny that the jet ski owners throw out a number and that's what has to be paid on the spot or else. And the police stand there watching. No chance to get official quotes from various fix it shops (I know they would probably get in on the scam too - but still), no chance to actually challenge their claim and go to court, just pay now or you have "big problem". It is really such a shame. Phuket could be paradise, but the greed and corruption kills the soul of the place.

Maybe someone should make a website showing the police corruption in Thailand people could post their videos. I am sure it would get blacklisted but anyway. Would this be a bad thing? Bad for us probably, but good for Thailand in the long run possibly. I think there are some good people, right at the top, but they have little idea what is going on and no way to prove it.

No more pictures of Farangs misbehaving, just videos of Thai police extorting money from people - this single video has made quite a stir with the Thai government apparently! Judging by the US Marines video the Thai police seem quite happy to be videoed "not doing their job properly".

[KhunAussie52]

some in the forum have been asking for contact numbers for the Thai police.

Police Hot line- 1194

Phone Bangkok- 022512981

Via email- www.jaray.police.go.th

The email address can be used to report an incident anomalously,have used it before,positive result!!