Draconian Usa Airport Search Policies Still A Go

[amphur]

I travel a lot to the USA.

Going there, departing from any country, and arriving in the USA is a nightmare due to security.

Once you are inside the USA, passed the customs area, it is a nice country.

[TongueThaied]

Some years ago I decided never to visit the US.

Awful country with awful rules.

But I like the Yanks.

Absolutely agree..........

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this.

ph

Yes, thank you both for staying out of my country.

I, too, am a Yank. It is my country, too. The security is phony. They lie. They will always say "random check," even if you are on a list. The poster that observed that most terrorists are already legal is absolutely correct. Homeland Security, et al, use fear to get away with phony searches to catch drugs, laundered money, porn, etc. Searches for those things without probable cause are absolutely unconstitutional, so they use the pretext of "national security" to carry out these otherwise unlawful searches. ABSOLUTELY THE MOST UNPLEASANT PLACE I HAVE EVER BEEN INSIDE THAILAND, BAR NONE, WAS THE U.S. EMBASSAY. I am not proud of this situation, but I am not stupid and blind either. I am not some "constitutional crank." I am a recovering lawyer and did a lot of work in the past on constitutuional issues. I am just sick to death of what has happened to my country. The most sickening part is probably all the dishonesty about it and the way the sheep just sop it up. Geez, I could go on and on, it's a sore spot, but enough. I hope to NEVER go through US Customs again.

[tlcwaterfall]

Some years ago I decided never to visit the US.

Awful country with awful rules.

But I like the Yanks.

Absolutely agree..........

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this.

ph

Yes, thank you both for staying out of my country.

I, too, am a Yank. It is my country, too. The security is phony. They lie. They will always say "random check," even if you are on a list. The poster that observed that most terrorists are already legal is absolutely correct. Homeland Security, et al, use fear to get away with phony searches to catch drugs, laundered money, porn, etc. Searches for those things without probable cause are absolutely unconstitutional, so they use the pretext of "national security" to carry out these otherwise unlawful searches. ABSOLUTELY THE MOST UNPLEASANT PLACE I HAVE EVER BEEN INSIDE THAILAND, BAR NONE, WAS THE U.S. EMBASSAY. I am not proud of this situation, but I am not stupid and blind either. I am not some "constitutional crank." I am a recovering lawyer and did a lot of work in the past on constitutuional issues. I am just sick to death of what has happened to my country. The most sickening part is probably all the dishonesty about it and the way the sheep just sop it up. Geez, I could go on and on, it's a sore spot, but enough. I hope to NEVER go through US Customs again.

Excuse my ignorance but what is a "recovering lawyer" What are you recovering from? lol

[lomatopo]

Why is it that the USA is the only country in the world that makes transit passengers go through immigration?

If there isn't at least a three hour wait, you miss your onward connection.

While not on topic per se, the U.S. has dozens of international airports and none were designed with a sterile international transit area hence the need to enter the country via Immigration. Countries which just have one airport, and or have multiple airports which have been (re-) designed to accommodate international transit passengers, have it a bit easier. Additionally, I’d SWAG that fewer than 2% of arriving pax have an international connection.

[thaibeachlovers]

Some years ago I decided never to visit the US.

Awful country with awful rules.

But I like the Yanks.

Absolutely agree..........

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this.

ph

Yes, thank you both for staying out of my country.

I, too, am a Yank. It is my country, too. The security is phony. They lie. They will always say "random check," even if you are on a list. The poster that observed that most terrorists are already legal is absolutely correct. Homeland Security, et al, use fear to get away with phony searches to catch drugs, laundered money, porn, etc. Searches for those things without probable cause are absolutely unconstitutional, so they use the pretext of "national security" to carry out these otherwise unlawful searches. ABSOLUTELY THE MOST UNPLEASANT PLACE I HAVE EVER BEEN INSIDE THAILAND, BAR NONE, WAS THE U.S. EMBASSAY. I am not proud of this situation, but I am not stupid and blind either. I am not some "constitutional crank." I am a recovering lawyer and did a lot of work in the past on constitutuional issues. I am just sick to death of what has happened to my country. The most sickening part is probably all the dishonesty about it and the way the sheep just sop it up. Geez, I could go on and on, it's a sore spot, but enough. I hope to NEVER go through US Customs again.

It is interesting that being treated as a criminal by PUBLIC SERVANTS given unlimited powers to harrass completely INNOCENT and LAW ABIDING returning CITIZENS has the effect of making a previously loyal citizen despise their own country. I feel the same way about my country ( not the US ) after being treated as a suspected paedophile because I'm a single man returning from Thailand. If it wasn't such an invasion of my privacy having some moron looking through all my personal stuff, it'd be laughable. These idiots don't have a clue about Thailand.

If I never had to go back, I'd be happy.

At least I haven't paid much tax there for the past many years, so I've the last laugh ( I work in an occupation that is crying out for workers, but I'll never work there again, if I can help it ).

[phetaroi]

I, too, am a Yank. It is my country, too. The security is phony. They lie. They will always say "random check," even if you are on a list. The poster that observed that most terrorists are already legal is absolutely correct. Homeland Security, et al, use fear to get away with phony searches to catch drugs, laundered money, porn, etc. Searches for those things without probable cause are absolutely unconstitutional, so they use the pretext of "national security" to carry out these otherwise unlawful searches. ABSOLUTELY THE MOST UNPLEASANT PLACE I HAVE EVER BEEN INSIDE THAILAND, BAR NONE, WAS THE U.S. EMBASSAY. I am not proud of this situation, but I am not stupid and blind either. I am not some "constitutional crank." I am a recovering lawyer and did a lot of work in the past on constitutuional issues. I am just sick to death of what has happened to my country. The most sickening part is probably all the dishonesty about it and the way the sheep just sop it up. Geez, I could go on and on, it's a sore spot, but enough. I hope to NEVER go through US Customs again.

A couple of reactions...first one in general. The thread is about "Draconian USA Search Policies". Draconian? Really? It's common to be searched in a way that is "unusually severe or cruel". Out of about 20 overseas trips I have had my bags searched once...for about 1 minute. I did see a Thai guy with a green card questioned a bit aggressively about his occupation in America...lasted all of about a minute.

Now, in regard to your post specifically, I think you might be a "Constitutional crank" or a perhaps a conspiracy freak. Not sure. But even those types have a place in the spectrum. Just not mainstream.

In all fairness there was one thing that happened to me that was a tad bit scary, although it was not about customs. I was driving to Florida and stopped in Brunswick, Georgia to take a photo of a bridge. I was suddenly surrounded by police cars. They checked my ID, asked questions for a couple of minutes, had me sign a document stating the reason I was taking a photo of the bridge. Then I asked why all the concern. The G8 Summit was being held on the adjacent Sea Island later that week, and there I was taking photos of infrastructure. "Is this a big problem?", I asked. "No, go ahead, take your photos now. Stay as long as you like." "Am I in some kind of trouble?" "No. Not unless the bridge blows up in the next few days." I suppose this is what the original poster would call Draconian. Aside for some momentary panic at the outset, it didn't bother me any.

[phetaroi]

It is interesting that being treated as a criminal by PUBLIC SERVANTS given unlimited powers to harrass completely INNOCENT and LAW ABIDING returning CITIZENS has the effect of making a previously loyal citizen despise their own country. I feel the same way about my country ( not the US ) after being treated as a suspected paedophile because I'm a single man returning from Thailand. If it wasn't such an invasion of my privacy having some moron looking through all my personal stuff, it'd be laughable. These idiots don't have a clue about Thailand.

If I never had to go back, I'd be happy.

At least I haven't paid much tax there for the past many years, so I've the last laugh ( I work in an occupation that is crying out for workers, but I'll never work there again, if I can help it ).

Please tell us more about the specific horrible treatment you received.

[ballzafire]

It's all about trying to condition us to act like good little slaves, in the name of fighting the bogus war on terrorism.

Only bozos still believe the whole scheme is for their benefit...

Edited September 1, 2009 by ballzafire

[sirineou]

Some idiot got on a plane with exploding shoes. Now we all must take our shoes off. I certainly hope nobody tries to board a Plane with exploding Underwear…… Though exploding Bra might not be a bad Idea.

But I digress.

When Bush said about Bin Laden “ Dead or alive” , I think his tactic was for Bin Laden to die Laughing.

[skipvice]

Much to do about nothing, been going back and forth to thailand for the last five years with no problems.

My outlook is better safe than sorry.

[livinthailandos]

as someone else pointed out I don't know about a draconian search, but I feel the USA is overly paranoid with its security, but on top though the usa should be happy less people want to visit there now. I never have much of a good image of immigration & customs in USA, after 2004 from a trip back from thailand. I wish I could make this up but going from off the plane, waiting in line for immigration, get baggage, then going through customs and them checking everything and finally getting out of the airport took 5 hours. I've never in my experience traveling in china, thailand, hong kong, singapore, new zealand, japan, and a few other countries I never experienced anything like that. oh well its ok put simple the usa figures it can't stop immigration from the border so lets stop more people from flying in.

[Taggart]

My wife and I absolutely refuse to transit through the U.S. from Canada even though the fare is usually much cheaper this way, than flying direct to Bangkok via Hong Kong. We did it a couple of times over fifteen years ago, and after the last trip having to deal with hassles with U.S. immigration & customs, we swore never again.

Noticed a few weeks ago, even if you're a big Bollywood movie star from India, you can end up getting detained.

[MJP]

USA based travelers to Thailand returning home still must be aware that all their electronic devices are subject to draconian search policies. Started under Bush, continued under Obama. Just a heads up ...

Bush's Search Policy For Travelers Is Kept

Obama Officials Say Oversight Will Grow

By Ellen Nakashima

Washington Post Staff Writer

Friday, August 28, 2009

The Obama administration will largely preserve Bush-era procedures allowing the government to search -- without suspicion of wrongdoing -- the contents of a traveler's laptop computer, cellphone or other electronic device, although officials said new policies would expand oversight of such inspections.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...9082704065.html

Just went through JFK. Even if you are just trying to make a connecting flight you have to go through immigration and then pick up you bags, clear customs and then go to the connecting terminal. I was on route from Tokyo to Bermuda, missed the connection to Bermuda ended up staying in Queens that night.

Immigration bloke was the best crack ever mind. Hope to be back in NY soon as I rather like it.

[manarak]

The inspections of laptops and computers is because of an attempt to intercept returning sex trade tourists. They are looking for "pornography". And they actually do catch a few people stupid enugh to store or improperly delete certain images. The intent is both a public display to show that they are doing something and to act as a deterrence.

Unfortunately, if someone did a cost benefit analysis of the interceptions and costs of legal harassment, I think the numbers would show that better value would be obtained from posting agents overseas that would watch venues where the objectionable acts occur and that then send back photographs of the presumed pervs.

I'm not sure what the search is about - so they look at the pics. Are they after "pornography" or after "child pornography".

Does a guy with porn on his laptop risk anything?

And I've got another, disturbing, question.

In Switzerland, the legal age for porn models is 16.

So... what will happen to a Swiss guy bringing porn material?

Edited September 6, 2009 by manarak

[bunuel]

Many foreigners no longer travel to the US because they are not gluttons for punishment. This does not make the country safer, but it is very bad for business. Ask anyone in the travel industry or the universities. Time to wake up and smell the coffee

Another tip, if they ask where you have traveled in Thailand, never say anywhere anywhere near the Golden Triangle, even Chiang Mai. Also of course never say Pattaya, they know all about it, try Chonburi instead (ha ha). Tell them some place they never heard of like Hua Hin or better yet Bumphukburi ...

American airport security immigration agents (whatever you call them I don't know or care), the rudest, most disrespectful, most arrogant on the planet. They are not our friends, treat them like poisonous snakes. It is of course well known that single male travelers to Thailand are profiled ...

Never had a problem with them and I have been through a lot of airports in the U.S. I wear lace-up boots and have to take them off every time, so what. They don't care if you have been to Thailand and why would you make small-talk with them, they don't know all about it. Your attitude is like a teenage girl who just got snubbed for homecoming...sheesh. They are doing their job so you don't get all blowed up and stuff.

[phetaroi]

I'm going to give you an opinion of what the problem is with security (airline or other) in America...the problem is not the American government...the problem is the American people (and I am one) and the way they think in the 21st century.

1. A problem isn't something to be solved...it's a crisis to which we must react.

2. Nothing bad should ever happen. (This goes along with #7 below).

3. Everything is the government's fault (even though, to a large extent, we are the government).

4. It's "us" versus "them"...no matter who the "them" is.

5. The Frank Sinatra Syndrome: I have to have it MY WAY. If I compromise I surrender my ideals, even though compromise used to be an ideal.

6. Politics has become a game of "how can we score a point in our favor" (sound familiar?).

7. When something doesn't go right, someone has to be held responsible.

8. Who can I/we blame?

9. We have to pigeon-hole every one, every idea.

10. The sky is falling.

[endure]

American airport security immigration agents (whatever you call them I don't know or care), the rudest, most disrespectful, most arrogant on the planet.

Have to disagree here. INS agents who deal with alien merchant seamen make airport security look like angels...

[bangla]

1,000 cursory laptop examinations in 221,000,000 just doesn't strike me as draconian (rigorous, severe)?

Its draconian if it happens to you and they confiscate your laptop.

and i'm quite sure only a small % of those 221 million people were carrying laptops.

[bangla]

And I've got another, disturbing, question.

In Switzerland, the legal age for porn models is 16.

So... what will happen to a Swiss guy bringing porn material?

in holland it's legal to buy pot and get stoned (if you're 18+) but i'm afraid the dutch guy will go to jail together with the swiss guy if they bring their legal shit to america

Edited September 7, 2009 by bangla

[Mario2008]

Pot is illegal in Holland, there is a policy of not prosecuting it as long as it is a minimal ammount. Legaly there is a big difference.

As for the porn model, you need to make a distinction between a porn model and a nud_e model. I think the 16 year old can pose nud_e in Switserland, but not make a porn shoot.

[Mario2008]

I'm not sure what the search is about - so they look at the pics. Are they after "pornography" or after "child pornography".

Does a guy with porn on his laptop risk anything?

They look for illegal content, in the US pornagraphy isn't illegal. Child pornagraphy is and one will be prosecuted for that.

But it not only the US that checks notebooks, flash cards, etc. Most European countries pereform these checks, and the change you will be submitted to a check increases if you are arriving from certain countries and also are in a certain age group.

[david96]

Back in the early 1970s in Australia we had security on domestic flights, if you had any

nasties they would hand them over and get them back at the end of your flight.

Eg a knife etc.

In the US there was never any concern so a foreign national carried a bomb on to a

Pan Am 747. He left the aircraft in the UK and Pan Am left the checked in baggage

on the plane which was flying to the US. Plane exploded over Scotland, another 30 mins

and it would have gone down in the Atlantic.

Pan Am staff did not remove the baggage fron the aircraft before it left the UK.

An Air India flight had already been lost over the Atlantic caused by a bomb.

The US authorities did nothing to improve security.

The US had been warned of security risks between 1989 and 2001.

In 2001 a number of Saudi Arabians hijacked some US aircraft and crashed 2 into

the WTO. The other hit the Pentagon.

Nothing much said about hitting the Pentagon the most inportant building in the US.

Very nasty event, the WTO incident. About 3000 dead at an est.

The US the woke up to the fact that they better do something about security at airports.

So they did and this is the result. Afghanistan and Iraq. Still there and will be for a long

time. Expensive, all because nobody in the US took any notice of the warning signs.

[dashiling]

I've been pulled aside for many random searches and been questioned unfairly. For instance, i had bought a cheap security camera like you see for 2500b along beach road. Canadian customs actually asked me if i had used it to film naked girls! that seemed to me an outrageous stretch.didn't bother with my camera though, the whole thing was haphazard but vicious nonetheless.

Last year i got a Dept of Homeland Security clearance for some Fema subcontract work. Now when i go through US customs the tone has changed considerably. Where before i was a subject of suspicion, Now i'm given the minimum attention, A "how was your trip?", and a "welcome home." They probably guess i'm some Blackwater thug or maybe an airline employee. In any case it was $60 well spent.

Canadian customs agents are absolute a-holes, i'll certainly never fly through a Canadian airport again.

[FarangForce5]

I go to the states 1-3 times per year and I dread going through the security checks when I arrive. I typically get pulled aside randomly for searches and questioning 1 in 4 times, and they are always extremely inconsiderate to a fellow citizen. Even when I dont get selected for searches they are very rude when they question me. It always put a damper on my trip (the flight part, not the rest of the trip). These guys could easily ask me these same questions in a more friendly manner, right?

[Kf6vci]

Never took a laptop, but every single time a late mother got frisked at the gate. Grey hair, pharmacist, straight as an arrow. She is Swabian and they spend hours sweeping the pavement and washing the trash bins etc over there. Pretty scary - can they get it so wrong? But hey, the late Senator Kemnnedy was on some "no fly list" as well!

[scorecard]

Never had the laptop looked at but they checked out my pocket camera. The woman at the arrivals desk put a red check in my arrival card. I assume she didn't like the answer I gave her about what I was doing in Thailand visiting family raised a red flag.

Got to the customs line was directed to one of the inspection counters the kid there ask what do you have in the bags I say a little bit of this and a little bit of that. He ask do you have a camera I says yes he ask to look at it. I hand him the camera and he starts fumbling with it. I ask do you want help with that he hands me the camera, I turn it on and show him the photos of my girlfriends mom, her kids, and of her. Handing me the camera back he says thanks that will be all no futher checks of bags he missed the 20 lbs of pot just joking.

Just harassement of us older, single male travellers who have family and friends in Thailand.

Is this likely to happen at all US airports or selected airports.

Coming soon I'm chaperoning a Thai university challenge team (4 students, all 19 / 20 years old) all will have appropriate visas, and I'll be travelling on an Asutralian passport, we fly into LA.

Whats likely to happen there, any suggestions?

Off topic question, do Austrakian have to get visa in advance to enter US?