People Warned Against Forwarding PM's Doctored Audio Clip

[animatic]

OK so tell me about OpenStep and IRCAM?

Tracing a files origin is dependent on the app and OS

and to some extent the lack of savoire faire of the creator and senders.

Seems that there was little forthought about origins.

It is an attempt to make the Songkran riots tepid close down somehow sinister,

just as another big gathering and potential riot situation is coalescing.

Going after this is not over reacting for three reasons.

1 it's a security issue, possibly an attempt at instigating a riot.

2 it's likely lible and criminal.

3 if traced through PTP as a primary source of mass dissemination

it certainly makes the party heads lible for charges

and maybe dissolution for criminal acts.

[froglegisgood]

it will be almost impossibe to trace the origins.

emails, headers and all, can be faked

file signatures can be faked.

whoever has possession of the "evidence" can have it point to anyone they want.

something very very fishy about all this.

For those who do not understand why it is illegal to forward the email, I suggest they google "Computer Crime Act" which has been enforced in Thailand for 2 years now (and in many other Countries you tend to believe more democratic than Thailand) and prohibit anyone from sending material modified in a way to damage a person's reputation or create harm to another party. This is punishable in criminal court by years in Jail, fine and does not prohibit the damaged party to sue for libel as well. If you forward the clip with that intention, you can be in for a shock

For those who believe that it is nearly impossible to trace back email, I can assure you that you can use any account from Thailand, even a hotmail US account, modify or fake any part of it the way you want, traces of who was sending it are recorded, including the IP address you were using to send it. If you send it from home, your ISP will have the exact details of who is behind that IP address and the cop can visit you extremely quickly. Even if you send it from an internet cafe or a PDA using a wireless, there will be enough data recorded to identify you, simply because since the Computer Crime Act has been implemented, the person who provides you with the connection MUST record your identity and a number of other data to identify you. If they fail, they inherit the criminal responsibility of your act.

I hope it makes sense and will stop some more naive people from believing that they can play with this, it is serious.

flg

[mca]

I see, perhaps you'd like to come down the station and help the police with their enquiries?

You forgot to add " 'Ello, 'ello, ello. What's going on 'ere then?" to the start of your post mate.

[Plus]

In the other thread on the same topic there's an article saying that they traced the clip to SC Asset via e-mail route, no mention of software signature on the clip itself. Two guys admitted they created the clip and sent to other folks at the company.

They also say they had no idea it was against the law. Duh.

[ballpoint]

... and smart people dont need to forward using email or mms, we can just use a thumbdrive or a CD.

One of the "smart people" are you? This post would suggest the opposite. What would be the point of using a thumbdrive or CD to store and transfer a fake, libellous and violence inciting sound clip? You wouldn't be trying to help stir up trouble in this country would you?

No, they can't stop every one who wants to from broadcasting this clip, but, given its nature and the current state of affairs in the country, they do have a duty to try and prevent it. For the same reasons, they also have the right to arrest and punish anyone caught doing so. It's a sad reflection on the level of maturity of the red shirt supporters in this country, particularly the PTP, that none have condemned what could have turned out to be a very dangerous piece of misinformation.

[RKASA]

Whom ever made this tape was not trying to make a funny clip, or present it as a joke.  They did it with complete malice.  I think it is a disgusting piece of work.  Don't burn the village to find the culprits, do the best you can to find the real source and hold to account the guilty person or persons that made it. I don't see the need for them to make sweeping statements like this, everyone knows its a fake.

[MATTJINBKK]

What a load of CRAP!!!!

[Insight]

all looks so clumsy, i suspect a frame.

Do you need an example of how clumsy these red-shirted clowns can get?

[Scott]

Well, I, for one, will be careful not to misquote him!

[Hawkup2000]

---

For those who believe that it is nearly impossible to trace back email, I can assure you that you can use any account from Thailand, even a hotmail US account, modify or fake any part of it the way you want, traces of who was sending it are recorded, including the IP address you were using to send it. If you send it from home, your ISP will have the exact details of who is behind that IP address and the cop can visit you extremely quickly. Even if you send it from an internet cafe or a PDA using a wireless, there will be enough data recorded to identify you, simply because since the Computer Crime Act has been implemented, the person who provides you with the connection MUST record your identity and a number of other data to identify you. If they fail, they inherit the criminal responsibility of your act.

I hope it makes sense and will stop some more naive people from believing that they can play with this, it is serious.

flg

Even with a proxy and a VPN with a 256 encryption?

[animatic]

all looks so clumsy, i suspect a frame.

Do you need an example of how clumsy these red-shirted clowns can get?

Thought this is less redshirts and more Thaksin family business subordinates,

and utterly clueless PTP guys, salivating over a way to smear Abhisit...

and not slightly thinking about the traces they are leaving in the process.

They say they made the tape, and ' Sent it to others in the company"

enough reason to search ALL company computers and compare them

to the PTP receiving computer via their services.

How got it in SC and WHO FORWARDED IT TO PTP < question of the week.

The Redshits send out the likes of Koo to try and sway us,

this was a more Machiavellian endevour,

but without Prince Cesar Borgia's determined intelligence to guide them.

How many spurious PTP attempts to smear the Dems can they try,

before SOMETHING grandly backfires on them...

They have been careening towards reaching critical mass here,

this might be Waterloo.

Edited August 31, 2009 by animatic

[Insight]

Birds of a feather, animatic

[animatic]

---

For those who believe that it is nearly impossible to trace back email, I can assure you that you can use any account from Thailand, even a hotmail US account, modify or fake any part of it the way you want, traces of who was sending it are recorded, including the IP address you were using to send it. If you send it from home, your ISP will have the exact details of who is behind that IP address and the cop can visit you extremely quickly. Even if you send it from an internet cafe or a PDA using a wireless, there will be enough data recorded to identify you, simply because since the Computer Crime Act has been implemented, the person who provides you with the connection MUST record your identity and a number of other data to identify you. If they fail, they inherit the criminal responsibility of your act.

I hope it makes sense and will stop some more naive people from believing that they can play with this, it is serious.

flg

Even with a proxy and a VPN with a 256 encryption?

It is good, but not bullet proof.

If the NSA wants in the NSA gets in.

Thing is you think PTP has this kind of Comp-Sci brains on staff? Not I.

Even at Yingluck's office, it's a lnad managment office,

Shin computer might have had some data base programmers,

but they sold off that branch anyway.

[Rumfoord]

For those who believe that it is nearly impossible to trace back email, I can assure you that you can use any account from Thailand, even a hotmail US account, modify or fake any part of it the way you want, traces of who was sending it are recorded, including the IP address you were using to send it. If you send it from home, your ISP will have the exact details of who is behind that IP address and the cop can visit you extremely quickly. ..

flg

Even with a proxy and a VPN with a 256 encryption?

you don't know the newest tool of the MICT. you don't know GIN. everything is possible with GIN and even much more.

photo and text (google translation) from the website of The Ministry of Information and Communication Technology www.mict.go.th

A. ICT network optimization GIN support the development of e-Government.

The operations of the network is the nature GIN Government Intranet that connects between the Prime Minister. Ministry-level agencies and the Department supports a landing at a lower level by the Department. The design and development have been installed in accordance with the development of e-Government policy. (e-Government) ...

GIN network to maintain system security. To control access to systems management, network devices via the network operations center (Network Operation Center: NOC) to prevent any person or agency to make any changes to Config device arbitrarily. System authentication of network management from the operations center. Central Ministry of ICT. The network administrator can perform Remote Management via the second floor to prevent penetration into the network effectively. To determine the right and duty to control or manage the network authority that has been assigned. And network management systems (Network Management System) to monitor the network at any time. If found to have used or are events that do not normally occur on the network GIN can edit and report to the Ministry of the note immediately. ...

And impact on the nation. As well as people in the future,

http://www.mict.go.th/ewt_news.php?nid=240...;filename=index

[SHYTALK]

I'd be interested to know how much of the illegal military coup, and airport occupation was set up , planned, and undertaken using e-mails and other electronic communications by the PAD and elite and military.

I havn't seen any interrogation of the airwaves along them lines.

However, more wai's from Burma to its role model thailand.

[kmj]

People warned against forwarding PM's doctored audio clip

BANGKOK: -- Pol Maj Gen Panya Mamen, deputy chief of Central Investigation Bureau, Monday warned the people against forwarding Prime Minister's doctored audio clip.

He said anyone was caught forwarding the clip could be arrested and subject to one year imprisonment and Bt500,000 fine.

-- The Nation 2009-08-31

What a joke. Surely they could maybe concentrate on prosecuting the Red and Yellow shirts that have a caused so much more problems with their public disorder than some grainy fake.

True. Although I don't think that they are saying that it is something that they are looking to concentrate on, rather that they will prosecute should it come to their attention. I don't think that even they could dream up a plan to monitor it after all, for all we know it could be on you-tube by now.

They can't monitor it, no way, all they can do is block facebook again, but it will be view as censorship and will be used by the reds to take abhisit out, and they can just keep on trying to delete every single clip on the entire web which is impossible.

I dont think they have to do anything, the clip is already out, and smart people dont need to forward using email or mms, we can just use a thumbdrive or a CD.

blocking facebook etc just use a proxy and you can get any site anywhere...

[Datsun240Z]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra

He entered politics in 1994 and founded the populist Thai Rak Thai (TRT) party in 1998. After a landslide election victory in 2001, he became prime minister, the country’s first to serve a full term.^[4] (1) Thaksin introduced a range of partly effective and highly popular policies to alleviate rural poverty.^[5][6] He launched the country's first universal healthcare program,^[7] the 30-baht scheme, as well as drastic social order and drug suppression campaigns.^[8]

His re-election in 2005 had the highest voter turnout in Thai history. ^[9][10][11] His main support base is in the north and northeast of Thailand.

The Shinawatra government also faced allegations of corruption, authoritarianism, treason, conflicts of interest, acting non-diplomatically, and muzzling of the press.^[12] Thaksin was accused of tax evasion, lèse majesté and selling national assets to international investors. ^[13][14] Independent bodies, including Amnesty International, criticized Thaksin's human rights record.

Massive protests occurred in 2006, and on 19 September 2006 (2) a military junta overthrew Thaksin's government in a bloodless coup while he was abroad. The CNS-appointed constitutional tribunal dissolved the Thai Rak Thai party for electoral fraud, banning him and TRT's executives from politics for five years.

(1): Proves he cares for his people, and still does. If he didn't, why would he do all the hazzle now? He can live somewhere else, in much better condition.

(2): Didn't the same " Military Junta, put Abhisit on power " ? Reality is. Abhisit is a puppet, Thaksin wanted "the change ", military saw that, and took action.

[Richard W]

(2): Didn't the same " Military Junta, put Abhisit on power " ? Reality is. Abhisit is a puppet, Thaksin wanted "the change ", military saw that, and took action.

No, there were two Thaksinist prime ministers between the junta and Abhisit becoming prime minister.

[webfact]

DOCTORED AUDIO CLIP

Pheu Thai denies link to fake audio clip of PM

By The Nation

Published on September 1, 2009

The opposition yesterday tried to distance itself from the apparently doctored audio clip featuring Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's voice after two SC Asset employees were arrested in connection with its circulation.

Having lost face trying to use the clip to discredit the prime minister, the Pheu Thai Party found itself further on the defensive after the arrests put the spotlight on the company, which is run by ousted PM Thaksin Shinawatra's sister, Yingluck.

SC Asset headquarters have also been searched by police.

In a statement, the Pheu Thai Party strongly denied it had anything to do with the clip featuring Abhisit asking military leaders to frame red-shirt protesters, thus providing an excuse for a harsh crackdown. It said the Democrats were using the incident to push for its dissolution and warned it was prepared to take legal action against the ruling camp.

END CONFUSION

The statement said that even if some of the opposition party's members had been forwarding the audio clip, it was only after it had already become widely circulated and discussed. It also called on the Democrats to end the confusion by providing the genuine voice clip of Abhisit to the public.Data from computers frequently used by the two suspects have been obtained by police, it was reported yesterday.

SC Asset lawyers said Kanthima Taemkhru, 29, and Somsak Sae-ung, 38, who were arrested on Sunday in Bangkok, did not manufacture the clip, but rather were only forwarding it via e-mail, the same as others who had received it.

However, an internal investigation is under way, the company said.

The two were arrested under a warrant issued by the Criminal Court on Sunday on charges of disseminating false information via the computer network, resulting in damage to others. Somsak was arrested at a house in Soi Prasarnban in Din Daeng district. Kanthima, from Sukhothai province, was arrested at her apartment in Chatuchak district.

Central Investigation Bureau Commissioner Pol Lt-General Thangai Prassachaksattru and his deputy, Pol General Panya Mamen, on Sunday rushed to the Crime Suppression Division headquarters to interrogate the two suspects. All investigators were reportedly instructed not to provide any information to the media.

However, police sources said the |suspects claimed they had simply sent out copies of the audio clip after one of them received a CD containing it. Investigators are now trying to establish where the CD came from.

The two suspects were released on bail after posting B100,000.

Meanwhile, Panya yesterday warned people against forwarding the controversial audio clip. He said anyone caught doing so faced arrest and maximum punishment of one year imprisonment and a Bt500,000 fine.

Former Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat, Thaksin's brother-in-law, also said he was confident the clip had nothing to do with any of "peace-loving" Thaksin's siblings or relatives.

-- The Nation 2009/01/09

[hammered]

Have the PTP denounced the clip yet and offered full cooperation in the investigation? That would be what you would expect of a party innocent of anything rather than being fooled by A.N.Other. Oh plus the party would normally also apologise for any hurt the PM suffered due to its people being duped.

Or will it be the usual threaten defamamtion and try to make poltical hay from a clip many if not most believe came from them.

[webfact]

Remember the Santika incident....? Silence, silence, silence...

Same will happen with this "investigation". It will fizzle out. MHO

[TAWP]

Have the PTP denounced the clip yet and offered full cooperation in the investigation?

If they denounce it they might upset the ones who ordered it...so that wont ever happen.

[Insight]

Have the PTP denounced the clip yet and offered full cooperation in the investigation?

If they denounce it they might upset the ones who ordered it...so that wont ever happen.

Unless the person that ordered it asks for it to be denounced. But I don't think Thaksin has thought of that yet.

Whoops.

[RKASA]

So the synopsis for those two people at this point as I try to follow it is: 

There are two employees held for having copied the file from a CD to a computer, format I is assume to be mp3.  They then emailed copies to other workers, they are not accused of having made the CD, so simply coping it from a mp3 on cd to mp3 file on a drive is not editing.  Nor does anyone in charge at the company seem to really have anything to do with it at all.  Mass assumptions aside.

They claim the CD came from another person that got it from someone handing them out at a bus stop.  That is vary possible, without witness or proof one would have to take there word on that one for now.  The questions then becomes did they really believe it was a true clip from that point on and is dissemination of audio not known to be false at the time a crime? and is the person that made the cd the one that is really responsible for that happening? 

If they didn't know it was fake because they didn't make it, its like holding the victim of a botnet PC virus and charging them with spreading malware from their e mail account.  If the job of making it was half good they may have been fooled.  Hearing it again after the fact is pointed out can sometimes make a difference, just like the slight of hand makes magic, you see it once its been pointed out..

The most important fact is still completely unknown.   Who made the audio clip and why.  I bet no one wants to know more then these two people do right now.

At this point it seems unlikely they are a part of any vast red conspiracy, but I feel a bit of Thaksin style reaction to this is on the way from the Dems because its really more a Thai style of reaction then a Thaksin one anyway.

I do think using the pictures of two people from that company, even if a note says they are not the ones responsible, showed some poor judgment by the papers.  It is a kin to a subliminal message aimed at Ms. Shinawatra .  If I was her I would be hot about it.  If you can't get a picture of the two persons that are being held responsible for something then maybe no picture would have been a better choice.

disclaimer  I have no color I am vary pale, but that could be my cardio meds.

[laukra]

Have the PTP denounced the clip yet and offered full cooperation in the investigation? That would be what you would expect of a party innocent of anything rather than being fooled by A.N.Other. Oh plus the party would normally also apologise for any hurt the PM suffered due to its people being duped.

Or will it be the usual threaten defamation and try to make political hay from a clip many if not most believe came from them.

Pheu Thai threatens action against Democrat over PM's clip

The Nation Sep 1, 2009

After a fresh report that the party may face dissolution in light of doctored clip controversy, the Pheu Thai Party on Tuesday issued a statement denying any involvement in the allegation and threatened to take the Democrat Party to court for defamation.

The party issued a denial and accused the Democrat Party of instigating a smear campaign. The statement said such malicious propaganda could result in the Democrat Party being dissolved.

The statement also demanded that the Democrat Party name relevant laws that it would take recourse against the Pheu Thai Party regarding to the audio tape allegation.

The Pheu Thai Party would also take legal action against the Democrat Party for defaming the party by accusing it of having involvement in releasing the audio tape featuring Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva asking military leaders to frame red-shirt protesters, thus providing an excuse for a harsh crackdown.

It also called on Abhisit a set up a neutral fact-finding panel to shed light on the allegation.

[webfact]

Have the PTP denounced the clip yet and offered full cooperation in the investigation? That would be what you would expect of a party innocent of anything rather than being fooled by A.N.Other. Oh plus the party would normally also apologise for any hurt the PM suffered due to its people being duped.

Or will it be the usual threaten defamation and try to make political hay from a clip many if not most believe came from them.

Pheu Thai threatens action against Democrat over PM's clip

The Nation Sep 1, 2009

After a fresh report that the party may face dissolution in light of doctored clip controversy, the Pheu Thai Party on Tuesday issued a statement denying any involvement in the allegation and threatened to take the Democrat Party to court for defamation.

The party issued a denial and accused the Democrat Party of instigating a smear campaign. The statement said such malicious propaganda could result in the Democrat Party being dissolved.

The statement also demanded that the Democrat Party name relevant laws that it would take recourse against the Pheu Thai Party regarding to the audio tape allegation.

The Pheu Thai Party would also take legal action against the Democrat Party for defaming the party by accusing it of having involvement in releasing the audio tape featuring Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva asking military leaders to frame red-shirt protesters, thus providing an excuse for a harsh crackdown.

It also called on Abhisit a set up a neutral fact-finding panel to shed light on the allegation.

The saber rattling season has started... "You sue me I sue you... Threaten me I threaten you... and we will not going to lose face..."

[hammered]

Have the PTP denounced the clip yet and offered full cooperation in the investigation? That would be what you would expect of a party innocent of anything rather than being fooled by A.N.Other. Oh plus the party would normally also apologise for any hurt the PM suffered due to its people being duped.

Or will it be the usual threaten defamation and try to make political hay from a clip many if not most believe came from them.

Pheu Thai threatens action against Democrat over PM's clip

The Nation Sep 1, 2009

After a fresh report that the party may face dissolution in light of doctored clip controversy, the Pheu Thai Party on Tuesday issued a statement denying any involvement in the allegation and threatened to take the Democrat Party to court for defamation.

The party issued a denial and accused the Democrat Party of instigating a smear campaign. The statement said such malicious propaganda could result in the Democrat Party being dissolved.

The statement also demanded that the Democrat Party name relevant laws that it would take recourse against the Pheu Thai Party regarding to the audio tape allegation.

The Pheu Thai Party would also take legal action against the Democrat Party for defaming the party by accusing it of having involvement in releasing the audio tape featuring Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva asking military leaders to frame red-shirt protesters, thus providing an excuse for a harsh crackdown.

It also called on Abhisit a set up a neutral fact-finding panel to shed light on the allegation.

The saber rattling season has started... "You sue me I sue you... Threaten me I threaten you... and we will not going to lose face..."

Considering the file was out on Thursday with PTP MPs bigging it up it is amazing they have taken so long to come out with a coordinated response. According to some reports Jatuporn and Chalerm are still saying it is real (they seem in a n increasingly small mionority on that one) and they know the source. It seems not everyone is on the same page yet as wasnt it meant to be found at a bus stop by the poor innocent employees of a Shin company. You just know butter wouldnt melt in the mouths of anyone PTP/red or of the Shin clan (and we know because they tell us) and that 100% of everything they are accused of is total fabrication always (and we know because they said so). This is the victim party or should that be we are incapable of accepting repsonsibility for our own actions party.

Oh and for the record the other side arent any different but they arent as completely entetaining to watch as all the denials and statements about peacefulness arent coming from purely comical characters with such badly tarnished reputations as Chalerm and Jatuporn. Even Suthep cant compete with those dudes. The old Shin army chief who was pretty useless at his job is quite amusing too. Give us Jakrapob, at least with him you got some reasonable talk.

Great entertainment right now.

[TAWP]

I find it interesting that IF it was picked up at a bus-stop than a clear astro-turf organisation is out there spreading disinformation to help the Reds (hey, might be part of them, right?) and doing so on a very grass-rots level, outside the immediate attention of the media. How many others are running? Who knows...but SMS (and in smaller numbers, emails) are a very popular medium to use to forward the latest allegations/gossip/rumours within the fan-bases...

[clausewitz]

So the synopsis for those two people at this point as I try to follow it is:

.

They claim the CD came from another person that got it from someone handing them out at a bus stop. That is vary possible, without witness or proof one would have to take there word on that one for now. The questions then becomes did they really believe it was a true clip from that point on and is dissemination of audio not known to be false at the time a crime? and is the person that made the cd the one that is really responsible for that happening?

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/teleco...er-pm-riot-tape

A police source said the two were not responsible for producing or doctoring the clip. They were only accused of forwarding the clip through the email system at SC Asset.

The police source said investigators suspected Ms Kanthima, who worked in the company's business relations section, had been given a CD containing the clip by a female colleague.

The colleague obtained the CD as copies were being distributed at a bus stop at Nonthaburi's Pak Kret district where she was boarding a passenger van to go to work.

The source said that when Ms Kanthima listened to the clip, she decided to share it with friends and asked Mr Somsak to re-format it as a computer file.

This is what the police are saying. The papers put front page news saying that employees of Shinawatra were reponsible. . And note that at the time of sending these two had no idea that it was fake...

[slimdog]

Have the PTP denounced the clip yet and offered full cooperation in the investigation? That would be what you would expect of a party innocent of anything rather than being fooled by A.N.Other. Oh plus the party would normally also apologise for any hurt the PM suffered due to its people being duped.

Or will it be the usual threaten defamamtion and try to make poltical hay from a clip many if not most believe came from them.

A theory....

Working on a few assumptions; the people involved; the time frame; the probable intention and motive.

It is entirely possible that PTP had absolutely no involvement with the manufacture of the tape recording, but they do have a pretty good idea as to who is responsible, and why it was made in the first place.

As with most incidents like this, the most obvious motive is revenge, with the hope that the victim gets embaressed in front of his or her peers, and even better yet, that the victim goes totally over the top, claiming all sorts of conspiracy theories, involving the police, accusing totally innocent people, and going straight to the national press with remarks about National Security.

From what has been reported, the initial recording became available on Thursday 27th August, so an assumption can be made that the tape was manufactured on Wednesday 26th August. From what has been reported, the tape itself is a collection of various soundtracks possibly coming from the Prime Ministers Sunday broadcasts.

The quality of the doctoring was not of an especially high standard, so all the individual(s) would need would be a copy of some of the recordings, a simple audio mixing program, some technical knowledge and a bit of time.

Interesting enough, the day before (I assumed) the tape was made, several highly placed individuals who definately had a source for the recordings, definitely had some technical knowledge, probably had at least some simple software, and found themselves with quite a bit of time on their hands were sacked for incompetance of a National tv station, because they repeatedly couldn't get the Prime Ministers show on the airwaves.

Maybe a motive for revenge...

Now if this theory has any merit.

• Would you be expecting PTP to be denouncing the tape, or laughing themselves silly ?
  
• Would you be expecting PTP to be offering full cooperation in an investigation or being totally bemused ?
  
• Would you be expecting PTP to be offering any form of apology for hurt feelings of the Prime Minister ?
  
• Would you be expecting PTP to be taking full advantage of the situation ?
  

Mind you. its far more fun to blame it on some machavalian plot by political rivals...

Edited September 1, 2009 by slimdog